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View Full Version : 3 Great years and more to come...



Logan
10-04-2005, 08:17 PM
Mercurymarauder.net opened for business on March 28th, 2002. It quickly became the authoritative resource for the Mercury Marauder.

Since then, we've had three awesome annual events, countless local and regional get togethers, developed a huge community of over 2000 friends and folks with common interests. Personally, it's an achievement I'm proud to say I helped create, though somewhat unwittingly.

The Internet is an unforgiving medium for those who operate sites like this. We get paid nothing, well next to nothing. Net for 2004 was $676. Yep. $676 for the approximately 1400 man hours that collectively went into managing this site. Not bad eh? Contrary to the opinion of the few, it's not or ever has been about the money.

Mary, Dan and myself run this site because we genuinely enjoy it, the majority of the time. We all have made a TON of friends across North America and beyond. My personal attention span for a car is usually less than 6 months, and I've stuck with the Marauder thing for a looooooooong time. To me, the fact I don't actually drive one currently is proof that this site is more about the people than the cars.

That being said, in every population, there's a small percentage that just aren't right. They, for whatever reason, exist solely to create havoc, spew venom, genuinely selfish and without any moral guidance.

What you witnessed over the past few days is what happens when a forum such as this turns. Stops moderating, stops enforcing its rule, stops enforcing its laws. This site is no difference than any other society in that regard. Chaos and human nature take over.

For me, it solidified my position with respect to the disposition of certain individuals and brought to light the disposition of others that were, in all regards, playing us like a fiddle.

My many thanks to Dennis Reinhart for stepping out and making a show of stepping off the site. This is what would happen the second we stop collectively governing ourselves. It's not enough for Mary, Dan and myself to be the bad guy 100% of the time, though we functionally enforce the site rules. The community at large has to speak up and support how the site is run so that the expectations of socially accepted behavior are commonplace and understood by those who would seek to participate.

It was truly disturbing to see just how fast things turned when we let go of the reigns and said, "Fine, you want no law, here." Within 12 hours, there was so much venom posted on that site it was absolutely surreal.

Honestly, My plan was this, if the community can operate without enforcement, then let Mary, Dan and myself take a less active role in the community and bring in new admins to manage those changes to mm.net. That probably would've taken the form of a "Opt-in" forum with a dedicated admin, where the rules were relaxed and people could feel free to discuss vendors, argue with each other or what have you.

So obviously that's not what happened, in fact, it degraded so quickly, I'm genuinely disgusted. It only served to strengthen my resolve to ensure that this site does not fall prey to the few who serve no other purpose than to spread discontent and hatred. That's not a community I would want to associate myself.

So thank you to the actors, thank you to our vendors for understanding the premise and even helping prove our point for us. MI2QWK4U for being our standin Admin, and Thanks to Dennis Reinhart as well...Though deleting all the posts was a bit much buddy! I now have an hour of work to reverse that sucker...

A special thanks to Mary and Dan for all their hard work over the past few months as the pressure and "crap-o-meter" has gone off the scale for some reason lately. These people are selfless. I get complaints constantly from people about getting moderated. My advice? Shut up or leave. This isn't a democracy.

We moderate how we see fit. Period. End of Sentence. Mary and Dan are MY buffer, keeping me sane. Messing with them, you might as well just mess with me. Heck, save yourself the trouble and rather than complaining, just ask us to close your account. Because that's all that would happen anyway.

Too often people ***** because they think they were targetted by our moderators. What people don't get is that YOU as users, consumers if you will, will NEVER see the whole story. You get a very jaded one-sided perspective. You don't see the PM's, you don't see the emails traded, you don't see posts made after you leave and removed before you arrive back.

You must have some faith that it doesn't matter who it might be arguing, we moderate with as even a fist as we're able to do. That being said, GIVE US A BREAK. We're not lawyers, everything is subjective. What Mary removes, Dan or I might not. I'll tend to delete users alot quicker than they will, and so on. We're human and we're honestly just doing the best we can.

You all need to understand just how much work, effort and love Mary, Dan and myself put into this site because we LOVE doing it. But, there are a number of people who seriously need to apologize to Mary & Dan for their recent conduct and reflect whether or not they should be a part of this community.

So, at the end of the day, those of you who're interested in an unmoderated forum, I'm sorry, I just don't have it in me to create that type of community. It's just not healthy and fundamentally would be a waste of my time. The biggest proponents of the idea themselves, proved that there's no value and nothing good could come of it.

A few things need to stop, immediately. Seriously, any further violations will result in immediate account termination regardless of who it might be.

- Personal Attacks. I'm SO done with this one.
- Vendor Issues. Contact the vendor directly, your issue is with them, not us.
- Moderator Abuse. This, I'm sick of. We selflessly give our time to this site, we don't deserve it.
- Stop the subtle innuendo, back handed comments and subterfuge. It's not welcome. Don't leave your comments open for interpretation, I guarantee we WILL interpret in exactly the worst way for you personally.

I sincerely hope that people give more consideration and tact to our moderators and the reasons why we run the site the way we do going forward. I think we've proven what happens when we step aside. Let's work together to build a community we can be proud of.

We're also talking to a couple new moderators to help spread the love around.

Sincerely,

The entirely VOLUNTEER and overly ABUSED mm.net mgmt...

Breadfan
10-04-2005, 08:33 PM
I am a moderator on a large computer forum, it is a very close knit community even with 50,000 members. I know first hand what Logan is discussing here.

Over there we have very very strict rules. Many that don't agree move on, those who stay learn and grow. As a mod I have to decide many times what crosses the line, sometimes everyone is happy, but most of the time I get nasty emails and PM's from the person I had to remind of our rules. It's not an easy task...in fact, I don't frequent that forum very much anymore. Still a mod there, but don't visit as often. I'm not quite sure if its becuase of the extra duties I've grown weary of, or just that I'm spending more of my money on my cars at the moment. (Probably the money issue...)

Anyway...thanks for the 3 years Logan, even though I've only been here for a few months...was glad to find it when I did, and happy to see it live on for many years to come.

DEFYANT
10-04-2005, 08:36 PM
Can we still get the smiley with the middle finger?


j/k!! nevermind.


Since my "name" Defyant was used in the opening of the Darkside, I feel partially responsible for the crap over there. That was never the idea I had in mind.

I was not looking to trash anyone. But we are adults and should be allowed to voice our opinions with in reason. The DR stuff was out of hand. BS! That crap should be dealt with.

In the end, I would agree with this censorship.

AzMarauder
10-04-2005, 08:40 PM
oh just great ! Now I will have to take back everything nice I said about Dennis ! :rolleyes:

cruzer
10-04-2005, 08:41 PM
Logan, I couldn't figure out what was going on---but I knew there was a reason for it. THANK YOU,LOGAN, MARY,DAN and DENNIS for opening a lot of eyes to what we have enjoyed so much. I've been around the block a few times, and when I found this site, I really couldn't believe what a great place it was to play, be informed and meet hundreds of great people--you folks have completely changed my life---ask Ginny. I was shocked by what happened so quickly--I never visited the other site and never will--I don't get any pleasure in watching confrontations---there is enough hate and bitterness in this old world without bringing it to our Marauder World. I guess what I am trying to say is, my heart was broken when I saw what was happening and I just couldn't accept it--so I sweated it out and you folks came thru for me. Again, THANKS to everyone on this great site for making the past few years more fun than I ever imagined they would be at my age---you've made me feel 50 years younger and I have really enjoyed life. If you will,keep up the wonderful job you have been doing and I will be eternally grateful---an older and wiser "Old Man Marauder"--Love you folks, Maury

Logan
10-04-2005, 08:43 PM
If only the entire Marauder community was as genuine and as caring as Maury. Truly something to aspire to. :up:

Pat
10-04-2005, 08:46 PM
Does this mean the "Dark Side" is history? I hope.

FordNut
10-04-2005, 08:50 PM
Does this mean the "Dark Side" is history? I hope.
Good riddance. Even if people have differences at least they are civil here. That was total anarchy, and it didn't take long to start affecting this side too.

Sort of ashamed of the couple of posts I made over there, not so much what I said but how I said it. I apologize.

Dark_Knight7096
10-04-2005, 08:59 PM
I'll miss the color scheme that's for sure!

Agent M79
10-04-2005, 08:59 PM
Hmm. Well I feel cheap and thouroughly used. And I'll have you know I am moderately priced and gently used. ;)

B.C. Bake
10-04-2005, 09:01 PM
Keep up the excellent work Logan, Mary, Dan, and Dennis. I've grone very fond of this site and would hate to see it go. :( BTW what would my Marauder think if I told her the sight was gone:eek: it would never run the same. OK nuff said keep it real and many more good times to come.:beer: P.S. the haters:banned: .

cruzer
10-04-2005, 09:03 PM
If only the entire Marauder community was as genuine and as caring as Maury. Truly something to aspire to. :up:
Logan, you can't possibly know how much this thought means to me--I just enjoyed life and God has blessed me--Now, let's get back to having fun---MVIV here I come :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Bigdogjim
10-04-2005, 09:04 PM
Hmm. Well I feel cheap and thouroughly used. And I'll have you know I am moderately priced and gently used. ;)

Glad I am not alone. :alone:

DEFYANT
10-04-2005, 09:04 PM
I'll miss the color scheme that's for sure!

Finally! Some one else who likes the color scheme.

Ca'mon Logan, hook us up with new skins. If there was good there, that was it! Oh...and that B**bie thread had gread potential.

Why do i feel like I am making jokes at a funeral?

ridinclean
10-04-2005, 09:06 PM
I thought this place was falling apart, glad to see it was all a bad dream :nono:

Bigdogjim
10-04-2005, 09:06 PM
Why do i feel like I am making jokes at a funeral?

Maybe because you are? :P

LCSO34
10-04-2005, 09:06 PM
I guess I am slow. Was all that for real or were people bashing each other for just for show? I am glad its gone, my southern mind had a hard time keeping up. Oh well, glad things are back to normal.:D:D

FordNut
10-04-2005, 09:08 PM
Finally! Some one else who likes the color scheme.

Kind of hard for me to read, but another site that has that sort of background gives you the option of switching from dark to light background.

Bigdogjim
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
I guess I am slow. Was all that for real or were people bashing each other for just for show? I am glad its gone, my southern mind had a hard time keeping up. Oh well, glad things are back to normal.:D:D

OK! Now define "normal"

Donny Carlson
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
Good riddance. Even if people have differences at least they are civil here. That was total anarchy, and it didn't take long to start affecting this side too.

Sort of ashamed of the couple of posts I made over there, not so much what I said but how I said it. I apologize.Dont be. You conducted yourself like a gentlemen as I recall, saying you really wouldn't be interested unless the cussing ran it's course and some interestnig (racing) smack talk immerged. Course, that's before the bus left the highway and "bashed" into an embankment, and you served yourself well by coming over here to stay out of the wreck.

GarageMahal
10-04-2005, 09:10 PM
Logan, I couldn't figure out what was going on---but I knew there was a reason for it. THANK YOU,LOGAN, MARY,DAN and DENNIS

^^^ Exactly what I was thinking ^^^

Glad I was not alone,
jta

Rollin'Thunder
10-04-2005, 09:11 PM
If only the entire Marauder community was as genuine and as caring as Maury. Truly something to aspire to. :up:
AMEN!!!!!! :bows:

Donny Carlson
10-04-2005, 09:13 PM
Hmm. Well I feel cheap and thouroughly used. And I'll have you know I am moderately priced and gently used. ;)
I have a grass skirt that's cheap and thouroughly used. Very frew Gold Bond stains, too. My size, you can use it to house at least three Samoan families in a pinch.

MERCMAN
10-04-2005, 09:14 PM
Just to let the membership know, I only visited the alternate site 2 times, once at its inception and once to watch it shut down. Anything that was said over there I did not want to know about, it is important to not color my moderating by comments made elswhere. I recieved many e-mails about this little experiment as every moderator did, but I want to let you folks know that everyone as of this moment has a clean slate, please don't grab the chalk and mark it up. The choice is yours :up:

DEFYANT
10-04-2005, 09:14 PM
Kind of hard for me to read, but another site that has that sort of background gives you the option of switching from dark to light background.
Last time I checked, we did not have that option here. :(

Donny Carlson
10-04-2005, 09:14 PM
Glad I am not alone. :alone:
Oh, you're moderately priced and gently used, Jim?:)

Eric91Z
10-04-2005, 09:15 PM
Huge thanks to Logan and the others mentioned that help make this site what it is and a great resource for this community. Without this site and the patience people have showed me for the last 2 years, I probably would not have ended up getting my Marauder. And I love every day that I get in it and just get to look at it.

I was worried for a while there as the end of my night at work happened with no MM.net. I was really worried it was gone for good. I have no problems with the moderating and decision making from the higher ups on this site. I came here because of the people and plan to stay as long as the sight it around!!!

Dark_Knight7096
10-04-2005, 09:16 PM
Oh, you're moderately priced and gently used, Jim?:)
Hey, I'm cheap, and i'll do windows as well.:baaa:

GarageMahal
10-04-2005, 09:17 PM
I have a grass skirt that's cheap and thouroughly used. Very frew Gold Bond stains, too. My size, you can use it to house at least three Samoan families in a pinch.

Thanks for the visual Donny, I needed a good laugh today :D

jta

the_pack_rat
10-04-2005, 09:24 PM
Damn Logan.

I should have followed my FIRST instincts, that being ... I never took you as the kind of guy that would or could ... let such chaos go down like that.

Funny how you look back on something after the fact ...

And now you clearly see HINTS that the "dark side" was really a legit experiment ... that was never intended to be permament.

Boy ... I feel stupid for falling for it.

But ... I'd much rather feel stupid for believing all that was in fact an ugly reality ... than for spewing out some of disturbing juvenile stuff others did.

Course' I spose' for one to freely spew out such stuff & take so much pleasure in it ..... the feeling of stupidity or regret is probably not an issue for them(being so twisted).

That being said ... I have NO regrets for anything I said there(mainly just a few jokes & cartoons). I never insulted a soul or said anything that would get me put in a padded room with an armed guard outside the door.

Anywhoo ..... you got me ya' :censor:.

;)

Donny Carlson
10-04-2005, 09:27 PM
I guess I am slow. Was all that for real or were people bashing each other for just for show? I am glad its gone, my southern mind had a hard time keeping up. Oh well, glad things are back to normal.:D:D
The site was, apparently, not real, but setup to see how a site would go without rules or a moderator.The surreal part is that, again apparenlty, at least some of the people were there performing fictional situations. And it was a test to see who would react in a certain way, who would reveal a side of themselves not previously seen.

Moot now, it's history. Time to mend some fences.

HwyCruiser
10-04-2005, 09:32 PM
Since my "name" Defyant was used in the opening of the Darkside, I feel partially responsible for the crap over there.

Nope, I hold you fully responsible for that fiasco. :D

One good thing that came out of all of this though, but I digress. :banned:

DEFYANT
10-04-2005, 09:35 PM
Ya know.....

I kinda feel..... strung along. I really bought into this hook line and sinker. I did not bash anyone as did a majority of the members there. It really had the potential to be the best of both worlds. I think with alittle temperment or, dare I say, moderation, it could have worked.

We are big boys and girls and understand the chaos that comes with lawlessness. We did not need a web site to show us. I got to know, how much time did you put into getting that going?

Even on Darkside #1 (SVTP.com) there was moderation. And we have been whacked at least once I can think of. But you could generally speak your mind. Yeah we pushed the bounderies with the b**bies, but that was the fun of it. We could speak as if we were in the same room.

Dare I suggest; Bring back the good. Bring it here. Give us the "Darkside room" or "Lounge" whatever. Where things are not moderated so strictly. Start bashing and be bashed out the door. Speak the truth the way we really speak and its all good.

As always, the few spoil it for the many. Logan, I would have liked the joke to have been on you. :(

MM03MOK
10-04-2005, 09:40 PM
Thanks for the visual Donny, I needed a good laugh today :D

jtaJevon - good to see you!

hitchhiker
10-04-2005, 09:50 PM
Some of the posts on the darkside were funny, but the attacks on individuals and vendors were way over the top.

I actually have this site as my home page since I check it almost every day.

Thanks Logan and to the moderators for running a worthy site.

Best Regards,

David

:D

Bigdogjim
10-04-2005, 10:02 PM
Dare I suggest; Bring back the good. Bring it here. Give us the "Darkside room" or "Lounge" whatever. Where things are not moderated so strictly. Start bashing and be bashed out the door. Speak the truth the way we really speak and its all good. (

I will never understand why anyone would what to "duke it out " over the internet? Most of the time you never even know the person except for a few post? The old saying can't have your cake and eat it too comes into play?

bigslim
10-04-2005, 10:03 PM
I was one that posted on the "Darker" site. Hey, I said somethings that I felt needed to be said. Am I sorry, no. Most of you here have met me and know the kind of person I am. I only attack when I have been attacked. I am glad this happened. The air was cleared and feel that I can move on just as we all can. This site has made me some great friends. I have met some terrific people from all over this country. Now lets get back to the business at hand, hating Logan. No really, thank you Logan for this site.

Bigdogjim
10-04-2005, 10:05 PM
Oh, you're moderately priced and gently used, Jim?:)

You'll have to check with Garfield on that one :P

Big Joe P
10-04-2005, 10:05 PM
Wow, that was fun....... Kinda ike the first time you could swear in the house when your parents weren't home... I'm still cracking up........... It's interesting what others did when there was nobody home.... My thanks to Logan and crew for what they do to keep this going.....

Mongoose
10-04-2005, 10:15 PM
First, let it be known that I haven't visited the darkside and have no intention of doing so. Apparently some bashing was going on behind the anonymity of the web and wasn't received too well. So be it. In my opinion, the web is an instrument more powerful than any nuclear weapon. Use it wisely for there is no recalling once it's been unleashed.

Second, if I have an issue, I'm man enough to take it to the source. If you're not , then again anonymity of the web is perfect for you.

Finally, I stumbled across this web site while doing some research on a vehicle I was interested in buying. I came to view this place as a plethora of information that could not possibly be within the data banks of the manufacturer. Through this site I have met strangers whom previously were just friends I had never met, one of them being a guy who has spent more time under my hood than I have and another being a guy who had enough love of the car to build a website. Like Hitchiker, I too have made this site my homepage. I consider it a prized tool in my tool box. But I'm not beyond replacing it if it becomes worn out and no longer serves the purpose of many and becomes the tool of self serving individuals. :soap:

STLR FN
10-04-2005, 10:38 PM
I liked the color scheme. Can we have that option at least Logan?

Most of what I posted was just needling Mike and Dave. No harm guys.

RedRauder

RCSignals
10-04-2005, 11:31 PM
Well Logan I am glad my first impression of why you may have created 'the darkside' was true. (although I have met you, you are a Canadian from Alberta, so I wasn't completely sure ;) )
Cover the table with brown paper, lay out some crayons, leave the room and see what the kids come up with.........sometimes it isn't pretty.

I'm glad it has ended this way, with the darkside gone, and it's association with mm.net. MercuryMarauder.net is too valuable to too many good people to jeopardise.

Anyone who really loved 'the darkside' and feels strongly about it, is certainly free to recreate it on their own.

Murader03
10-04-2005, 11:32 PM
Boy! Take a few days away from the PC and I miss all the fun! Anyway, Logan, I offered a long time ago to assist when you first asked for volunteer moderators, and I'll again offer my unsolicited, inexperienced services again!

BillyGman
10-05-2005, 12:07 AM
Here's my take..... Logan and his moderators are under no obligation to explain anything to anyone, and I fully agree that this is NOT a democracy, nor should any online board be a democracy. I was a moderator on a board for a year, and that board wasn't a democracy either. There are things about how this board is run, and about how some of the rules are enforced that I don't particularly agree with. But that doesn't matter, because it isn't my board, and I choose to be here of my own free will. Niether Logan nor any of his moderators are forcing me to stay.


Let me also explain that despite certain things that I don't agree with here, overall this is a great board for Marauder owners, and I've gained a lot of helpful and fantastic knowledge about my Marauder by being a member here. Had it not been for this board, my Marauder would still be a 15 second car rather than a 12 second car like it presently is.

Having explained all of that, I also want to say that I don't believe that this "experiment" proved much of anything. Again, let me make it clear that Logan is under no obligation to any of us to prove anything. He's started up and maintained the most informative board on the internet about Marauders. I'm merely pointing out that this so called "experiment" was anything but objective. It wasn't exactly what you would call a "double blind" study. :)

Right or wrong, all the moderator bashing that took place on that other board would NOT have been there if there really weren't any mods to begin with. Sure there weren't any mods over there (I mean moderators), but since that board wasn't really anything else than an extension of this board, then in essence, what we had over there was merely part of this board. Does that mean that I'm saying that no mods are needed? Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that we started out with some rather strict rules (meaning over here), and then for merely a couple days, we went to entirely the other extreme. So ofcourse that would open the flood gates, and even invite people to lash out.

So the stage for all types of brutal comedian type posts was set. As well as for posts about dissatisfied customers too who were never previously allowed to voice their veiwpoints about certain issues. All of the frustrations and dissappointments of some members that took years to be built up during the lifespan of this board here, were suddenly allowed to be unleashed all at once over at that other board. So ofcourse it was chaotic. How would it be otherwise? And to let such a board exist only for a couple days is not any realistic proof that such a board would be that way always, or that it would continue to get worse and worse had it been allowed to remain on the net.

There would've been a point where people would've gotten certain things out of their system, and where the attempts at humorous posts laced with four letter words would have gotten real old, and therefore would've tapered off atleast to some extent. It wouldn't have completely stopped all together, but it would NOT have remained as it was with the same intensity that it was. So I don't think that this so called "experiment" proved much of anything since it's entire premise wasn't even serious nor realistic. And not having any rules nor mods to enforce them at all is simply the other extreme of what this board is. So we've seen two extremes IMO. Neither one is realistic. However that doesn't change the fact that this is one seriously beneficial board overall to it's members (myself included) and that's what has kept me here.

I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.

Two Hawks
10-05-2005, 01:44 AM
Logan, I totally agree with what you posted. Thank You and Mary and Dan for
keeping this site a place I can visit and enjoy. Keep up the good work.

I was leery about the new site and got more and more worked up as I saw it
unfold.

It turned out to be an interesting but very disturbing experience.

:sweat: I'm glad it's over.
Now, I can get off the blood pressure medicine. :lol:

Mike Poore
10-05-2005, 03:22 AM
It was Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock" and his anthropology study of the EK which best describes what happened here. It took the EK a single generation to revert; but in Logan's experiment, it took us a single day.

Now, using the dark side as an example, follow your thoughts to what will become of us as a nation if those who want to destroy us are not stopped.

Hey Logan: :neener:

You shouldn't do things like that to old people. ;)

2003 MIB
10-05-2005, 03:58 AM
I knew this was a hoax- felt it in my gut. Come on- Who could hate Mary???????:banned:

2003 MIB
10-05-2005, 04:11 AM
If only the entire Marauder community was as genuine and as caring as Maury. Truly something to aspire to. :up:
Maury is the probably the best relationship I have ever had with an elderly person. It's because the man's enthusiasm and energy is limitless. Even when he gets twisted about something (and he does, doesn't he DFW?:director: ) he has a real sense of class. He's the glue holding our local group together. Ride on, Pop Pop Marauder!

martyo
10-05-2005, 04:13 AM
The best part about it is that I bought the movie rights to the whole thing! :D

And yes Todd, Dom Delouise will be playing me.

snowbird
10-05-2005, 04:22 AM
It was Alvin Toffler's book "Future Shock" and his anthropology study of the EK which best describes what happened here. It took the EK a single generation to revert; but in Logan's experiment, it took us a single day.

Now, using the dark side as an example, follow your thoughts to what will become of us as a nation if those who want to destroy us are not stopped.

...
This experiment really make us think that unfortunatly, after the last 200 years or so of recent evolution (science, education and all), we're only need 24 or 48 hours to go back to jungle time.

I won't look at cops waiting behind a bridge on the highway (to keep us civilized) the same way anymore... Who would have though i would say that !!! :D

Logan and accomplices, keep up the good work. :)

2003 MIB
10-05-2005, 04:34 AM
And yes Todd, Dom Delouise will be playing me.
Chris Burke was busy?

Silver_04
10-05-2005, 05:03 AM
I guess my question is what the heck were the admins expecting? Unrestricted forums like the darkside exist on plenty of other automotive forums with the exact same results. Why would it be any different if the users here had such an outlet? I for a change was mildly relieved that people were actually going to be able to speak of their experiences here freely...nope. But, what became apparent and I hope are heeded are vendor/customer and moderator/subscriber issues that need addressing.

Yet this dismay I'm sensing over the anarchy that took place seems unjustified, nevermind the fact that it seems the motives behind the darkside were childish and clicky at best... especially if one of the motivations was to try to get people to look bad. And perhaps these antics are going to have unintended consequences, such as people thinking twice about giving money to a site and vendors that in my opinion embarked on a mission to try to set up a population of the users, and personally speaking I was given plenty of reason not to further support the aforementioned parties due to my experiences last year. I stand by the few posts I had over there, wish I could have posted them here. You don't like your subscribers here...hit the ban button and move on. These elaborate theatrics, i.e. the Darkside, are absurd.

Logan
10-05-2005, 05:28 AM
Thanks for the comments, positive and otherwise.

I will actually work on porting the color scheme over here, as I can actually allow the user to select their preferred color scheme, so I will make that happen. I actually liked it too. :)

Underlying point was for people to get off our backs. We moderate for a reason, because if we don't it goes to hell in a handbag in an instant. The rules on the darkside were no different than any other unmoderated site, everyone made it what it was. Was it absurd? I don't think so, I'd honestly of been happy to leave it up if people could prove me wrong.

So to that end, some people were able to handle it, I'm still toying with the idea of a Opt-in subforum, where people can go to debate with less restriction. It wouldn't change our moderating from the perspective of vendor, or moderator attacks, but conversations like the Fuel Octane/Performance thread would be allowed to continue through their natural course.

Agent M79
10-05-2005, 05:46 AM
I have a grass skirt that's cheap and thouroughly used. Very frew Gold Bond stains, too. My size, you can use it to house at least three Samoan families in a pinch.It's reaching out like this that make this place so special. I am weepy now. You've touched me, Donny. (And I will have to report that to your parole officer.)

mcb26
10-05-2005, 06:31 AM
Glad it's over. I never went there,didn't want to. Scared me when the site was down for a while last night. Oddly enough Mcgaffy intersepted a virus about the same time, not sure what site it came from,went to a couple of weather sites about the same time.

Thanks for a great site to all the mods.

DEFYANT
10-05-2005, 06:31 AM
I will actually work on porting the color scheme over here, as I can actually allow the user to select their preferred color scheme, so I will make that happen. I actually liked it too. :)
Thank you


Underlying point was for people to get off our backs. We moderate for a reason, because if we don't it goes to hell in a handbag in an instant. The rules on the darkside were no different than any other unmoderated site, everyone made it what it was. Was it absurd? I don't think so, I'd honestly of been happy to leave it up if people could prove me wrong.
WE can see the job you and the others do, thanks for keeping it going.


I'm still toying with the idea of a Opt-in subforum, where people can go to debate with less restriction. It wouldn't change our moderating from the perspective of vendor, or moderator attacks, but conversations like the Fuel Octane/Performance thread would be allowed to continue through their natural course.
THAT is what I am talking about.
:D

DEFYANT
10-05-2005, 06:45 AM
Was anyone band here that made comments on the Darkside?

04funmerc
10-05-2005, 07:43 AM
Well, I'm glad that things seem to be resolved, hopefully some good ??? came out of it. Yes I'm one of those who did'nt realize what and how much goes on behind the scenes that the moderaters and vendors have to deal with, so for me it helps my understanding of how this site works.
I was truly afraid that the D/S was reelly going to really screw up this site, and realized last nite when the site went down just how much I depend on and enjoy this site that is devoted to the MM. And I love my MM., so I guess I could say that I love this site too even if I don't post a lot.
As has been said, if I don't like it I do have a choice, don't particapate or leave.

THANK YOU LOGAN, MARY, DAN AND DENNIS :burnout:

JIM

AzMarauder
10-05-2005, 08:27 AM
I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.Billy...... It is YOUR FAULT I have a Marauder.... (just thought I'd throw that in here)

I agree with all you posted above. I was thinking very similar things as I sat here downing my morning Cheerios and getting ready to resume my install of 0105.

I have several points I want to make....

1. From a purely scientific aspect the "experiment" called the Darkside was invalid. The way the alternate board was presented, the disclaimers, the very name established the fact that the board was going to be an anything goes board. Much the same as a disclaimer on a porno site makes it very clear that you aren't risking seeing a "little skin" you are going to see some very graphic pictures. So, I believe some of the people posting on the Darkside are, by nature, as crass as they came across, others were just briefly "letting their hair down" in the spirit of the moment. So I don't believe the experiment is a vindication of the LEVEL of moderation we have here, only an example of how extreme it MIGHT be if we had no moderation.

2. Groups, clubs, society in a whole are self-regulating. If a member of a group conducts themselves in a manner that is unacceptable by the group, the group censors them. The problem member is ignored, asked to leave, given the cold shoulder, etc. Different groups have different levels of tolerance for individuals that push the boundaries of acceptable behavior. However, this dynamic doesn't work quite as well online. The anonymity associated with the virutal world breeds conduct that wouldn't normally happen in the physical world. Additionally, we have how many people transit this site and we don't even know they were here? This board is not a closed community in the same sense that a group in the physical world is. So it does require different means to enforce the "group norm". The moderators provide this different means. If they are too strict, we do have a way to address it with them or vote with our virtual feet if we aren't comfortable with it. There are other options (SVTPERFORMANCE.COM for example) however, the folks that stay here do so because it is a community that functions, in a large part, the way they like it to function. We have police here to guide wayward members just as we do in physical world.

3. I do think we could use some form of Feedback forum to address different issues concerning vendors or transactions between members etc. I don't think this should be threatening to a business. A transaction between two entities witnessed by the community, is a very easy way to see who was telling the real deal. A reputable business or transaction is only vidicated by such visibility.

4. Finally, on any board, with or without rules, I think folks need to remember that there are / should be consequences tied to their conduct. In this venue it is easy to missunderstand the tone in a written communication. However, unlike real life, you don't have to make a reply or choose an option in fractions of seconds. Some one that is in your virtual face / virtual physical space is not a REAL threat to you. There is plenty of time to think out the whole process, the consequences for courses of action etc. I think some people forget this when buffered by the anonymity provided by the virtual world, or in a real sense the physical buffer. I simply cannot imagine some of the things said in this medium would actually be said face to face! I cannot help but believe that the interaction that took place on the Darkside will forever taint my impression of some of the people based upon their conduct. I wonder how it has affected other folks and their future interaction.

Summary, I won't say that I enjoyed the experiment. I think that it served a purpose, but more for the moderators than for the membership. It was the picture that was worth a thousand moderator words to show us the potential for anarchy that exists in an unmoderated environment. Yet, to an extent I think it was the "easy way out". As an analogy, when you explain to your child why they shouldn't touch a hot burner on the stove, you spend a lot of words, but you don't grab their hand on put it on a hot burner. Obviously the latter action will certainly make the message very clear! But it isn't what you would do. So I think the Darkside was putting people's hand on the burner. I am not sure we needed to do that as justification for level of moderation we have on this board.

These opinions are mine... (perhaps I can pass them off as Billy's :rolleyes: ). Your mileage may vary!

Marauderman
10-05-2005, 08:30 AM
WOW--My head is spinning --It's been like a real bad dream and you wake up and it's all over--it wasn't real at all!!!

I speant most all of last night reading post after post about this whole thing--and my head was spinning --why-I just wasn't gonna believe what I was seeing---there had to be something to all this---

..and to that end -came the end---it turn out to be a bad dream (in a way)---

I personnally agree with all the positive comments--rather than say them over and over again--

and am glad our Vendor(s) is/are no longer targets openingly --


I , like so many others, am thankful for what Logan and the moderators bring to the screen--as others have said--this is where we started and this is where we meet between meets-- IT'S ALL ABOUT CARS FOLKS..AND THE FRIENDS WE HAVE MADE IS PRICELESS!

That bad dream better not ever show up again!!!---YA'll are great!------Tom

cyclone03
10-05-2005, 08:39 AM
I hoped this was just a test.
The only thing I regret is I didn't get to post....****,****,****,******* ***,************, and ****!

I did regester on the DS but it would never let me post.

That must of been one hell of a gut check for you Logan.

Logan
10-05-2005, 08:53 AM
Billy...... It is YOUR FAULT I have a Marauder.... (just thought I'd throw that in here)
....lots of other blah blah blah here
I only wanted to say, well said and insightful comments.

Hack Goby
10-05-2005, 09:04 AM
I won't say that I enjoyed the experiment. I think that it served a purpose, but more for the moderators than for the membership. It was the picture that was worth a thousand moderator words to show us the potential for anarchy that exists in an unmoderated environment. Yet, to an extent I think it was the "easy way out". As an analogy, when you explain to your child why they shouldn't touch a hot burner on the stove, you spend a lot of words, but you don't grab their hand on put it on a hot burner. Obviously the latter action will certainly make the message very clear! But it isn't what you would do. So I think the Darkside was putting people's hand on the burner. I am not sure we needed to do that as justification for level of moderation we have on this board.


Even though I have never been banned I argree with Az. on this one its a no brainer to give people free rein on a Marauder website(Darkside)and then when the people they know are going to crazy do well its"SEE!,See what happens when theres no control".I think I understand now.

Dark_Knight7096
10-05-2005, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the comments, positive and otherwise.

I will actually work on porting the color scheme over here, as I can actually allow the user to select their preferred color scheme, so I will make that happen. I actually liked it too. :)

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!:2thumbs::rock:

Hotrauder
10-05-2005, 09:14 AM
I haven't slept that well the past couple of nights. Up this morning at 4:30 and went and looked at the MM. I found that it didn't stir me as it has since I bought it. I have been up almost 8 hours so far today and this is the first time I have been to the site. Unprecedented as it usually is a first or second thing thing with me. I know I wanted the DS gone and voted that way and now it is I feel better. However I don't at this time feel the same about MM.Net as I did before this started. I am going to take the Marauder out for a drive and see if that helps. I sure hope so. Dennis

BillyGman
10-05-2005, 09:38 AM
Logan, I just want to say thankyou for allowing all of us to post our comments concerning your experiment. I realize that you could've just posted what you thought, and then locked the thread and left it there, but you didn't. And I appreciate the fact that you didn't. :2thumbs:

69mach1
10-05-2005, 09:45 AM
Just wanted to say I appreciate what you, Mary and Dan accomplish. My MM is such a joy to drive, experience, share and it's made in "America" :D . I enjoy this site and really want it to stick around. It's full of great information and I've met some nice folks through this site. I'm not a dark side kinda guy, just not needed in my world.

Thanks again for your efforts.

Sincerely,

Jon aka 69mach1 :burnout:

Hack Goby
10-05-2005, 10:00 AM
I haven't slept that well the past couple of nights. Up this morning at 4:30 and went and looked at the MM. I found that it didn't stir me as it has since I bought it. I have been up almost 8 hours so far today and this is the first time I have been to the site. Unprecedented as it usually is a first or second thing thing with me. I know I wanted the DS gone and voted that way and now it is I feel better. However I don't at this time feel the same about MM.Net as I did before this started. I am going to take the Marauder out for a drive and see if that helps. I sure hope so. Dennis
Dennis,I know how you feel,Paridise lost. :depress: I think I will take the day off get in the Marauder and go find what Im looking for.

the_pack_rat
10-05-2005, 10:01 AM
I haven't slept that well the past couple of nights. Up this morning at 4:30 and went and looked at the MM. I found that it didn't stir me as it has since I bought it. I have been up almost 8 hours so far today and this is the first time I have been to the site. Unprecedented as it usually is a first or second thing thing with me. I know I wanted the DS gone and voted that way and now it is I feel better. However I don't at this time feel the same about MM.Net as I did before this started. I am going to take the Marauder out for a drive and see if that helps. I sure hope so. Dennis Embarrasing isn't it ?.

Don't sweat it too much ..... we all have choices. Just because we own a MM does not mean we are obligated to be close "family" towards each & every other MM owner. As it's often been said, no matter how much we may LOVE them ..... it's just a car.

And being it's just a CAR ..... there's no need to feel any differently towards your car ..... unless your MM itself had been sitting behind a keyboard ..... spewing off all kinds of twisted obsenities to everyone elses MM's & other cars, acting as tho it were left home alone for it's very first time ever & had just injested its first high octane cocktail. :P

Don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole basket. As "eye opening" as the whole DS thing was, for the most part ..... I don't think most of us are bad people.

:banana2:

N40GL
10-05-2005, 10:30 AM
I thought that 'Darkside' was just plain bizarre and I'm glad its gone.

Smokie
10-05-2005, 10:43 AM
I am glad that it closed down, not because of bad words or boobs. Sometimes I cuss, I love boobs. I feared that eventually a person that I like and respect, would write something so vile that I would lose all respect for that person.

I'm no saint, never pretended to be one. I try to be true to my myself and the person that is typing now is no different from the one you meet, had I chosen to write in the other place, no one would have trouble recognizing me.

I have the same opinions, core values and beliefs regardless of where I stand. I can tolerate all kinds of differences of opinions about religion or lack thereof, politics, sex. I rarely get angry, mostly because as a younger man I spent too much time and energy being angry.

Some people that wrote on the other side....need help.

magindat
10-05-2005, 11:10 AM
I found this site a little after I bought my Marauder earlier this year. Unfortunately, it only took me 4 months to wreck it. While it has been in repair, I have read a million posts and threads and have learned tons of stuff. I decided on an intake here. I decided on a paint scheme here. I got advice about the install of my AVIC-D1 (thanks Logan and a N1 owner who's name I have forgotton that gave me his DIRECT WORK PHONE NUMBER) here. I have answered some posts to the best of my knowledge in order to add to the wealth.

This site has saved me money, got me the right parts (Thanks KB and Wes), helped with wheel and tire selection, saved me time, and been generally a very helpful wealth of information. You can't find a site like this for the Prowler (similar production numbers) or any other car I have known.

I love my MM as much as the rest of you. Most of you have made me love it more! Thanks to everyone who has posted the useful information. Thanks to Logan and other mods so that I didn't have to sift through a mountain of BS inorder to get to useful info and real, founded opinions.

As soon as I get back, I'm sending money. The rest of you should do the same.

LightningVic
10-05-2005, 11:12 AM
Here's my take..... Logan and his moderators are under no obligation to explain anything to anyone, and I fully agree that this is NOT a democracy, nor should any online board be a democracy. I was a moderator on a board for a year, and that board wasn't a democracy either. There are things about how this board is run, and about how some of the rules are enforced that I don't particularly agree with. But that doesn't matter, because it isn't my board, and I choose to be here of my own free will. Niether Logan nor any of his moderators are forcing me to stay.


Let me also explain that despite certain things that I don't agree with here, overall this is a great board for Marauder owners, and I've gained a lot of helpful and fantastic knowledge about my Marauder by being a member here. Had it not been for this board, my Marauder would still be a 15 second car rather than a 12 second car like it presently is.

Having explained all of that, I also want to say that I don't believe that this "experiment" proved much of anything. Again, let me make it clear that Logan is under no obligation to any of us to prove anything. He's started up and maintained the most informative board on the internet about Marauders. I'm merely pointing out that this so called "experiment" was anything but objective. It wasn't exactly what you would call a "double blind" study. :)

Right or wrong, all the moderator bashing that took place on that other board would NOT have been there if there really weren't any mods to begin with. Sure there weren't any mods over there (I mean moderators), but since that board wasn't really anything else than an extension of this board, then in essence, what we had over there was merely part of this board. Does that mean that I'm saying that no mods are needed? Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that we started out with some rather strict rules (meaning over here), and then for merely a couple days, we went to entirely the other extreme. So ofcourse that would open the flood gates, and even invite people to lash out.

So the stage for all types of brutal comedian type posts was set. As well as for posts about dissatisfied customers too who were never previously allowed to voice their veiwpoints about certain issues. All of the frustrations and dissappointments of some members that took years to be built up during the lifespan of this board here, were suddenly allowed to be unleashed all at once over at that other board. So ofcourse it was chaotic. How would it be otherwise? And to let such a board exist only for a couple days is not any realistic proof that such a board would be that way always, or that it would continue to get worse and worse had it been allowed to remain on the net.

There would've been a point where people would've gotten certain things out of their system, and where the attempts at humorous posts laced with four letter words would have gotten real old, and therefore would've tapered off atleast to some extent. It wouldn't have completely stopped all together, but it would NOT have remained as it was with the same intensity that it was. So I don't think that this so called "experiment" proved much of anything since it's entire premise wasn't even serious nor realistic. And not having any rules nor mods to enforce them at all is simply the other extreme of what this board is. So we've seen two extremes IMO. Neither one is realistic. However that doesn't change the fact that this is one seriously beneficial board overall to it's members (myself included) and that's what has kept me here.

I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.

I couldnt agree with you more Billy. If you look, I have a pretty low member number, I have been a member of this site since before the marauder even came out (I think, I cant remember), and although I do not have a marauder (yet) I have come to think of this as a pretty neat place to hang out. I personally have never been censored, but I have to say that I also didnt always speak my mind when I wanted to, because I didnt want to get banned heh. Although, I do appreciate the efforts of all of the moderators and people that run this site. If i werent a dirt poor college student, I would make a donation, and when I get my high paying college job, I will make a donation.

That being said, I also believe that given time to run its course, the darkside could have been an interesting place (I also loved loved loved that color scheme). I posted twice there, and found that I enjoyed the posts I did read. It seems like unmoderated discussions, while they can get extremely heated, and occasionally dumb, can sometimes be more interesting to partake in.

Thanks for the last 3 years.
I am going to get in contact with you guys when I get some money, I wonder if logan would go for letting me start up darkside again if I promised to take care of it totally.

MI2QWK4U
10-05-2005, 11:41 AM
I just want the membership here to know a couple of things...
First off, I was not on the inside on this event. I suspected Logan was trying to prove a point with the Dark forum, but was asked by Logan after the site was up to be the moderator, that should have raised a red flag, but I told him a long time ago I would help out if ever needed.
I have recieved a number of emails and PMs accusing me of playing a part in this debacle in order to trip up or entrap people into badmouthing vendors or moderators. This isnt true, and Logan will attest to that I am sure, but I wanted the general membership to know I was along for the ride along with everyone else. I will say that everything I posted on the Dark side ref moderation on this forum we my opinion and belief and express the way I percieve things here, and were not posted in a hoax to lure others into agreeing with me. I am sorry I accepted the job of moderating the dark side, I really am. People were out of line and just plain assh0les, and as much as I wanted to give them the boot...I couldnt do it under logans anything goes policy, it really put me in the trick bag. I wish more of you would have visited the dark side, maybe your opinions of people, both good and bad would have changed, I know mine changed on several people. So get off my back about being in on the dark side farce, its not true and I'm tired of hearing about it. Enjoy the site and all the crap that goes along with it.

Cobra25
10-05-2005, 11:50 AM
I just want to say Thank You too Logan , Mary & Dan for making this site a better space to be.

2003 MIB
10-05-2005, 12:08 PM
I wish more of you would have visited the dark side, maybe your opinions of people, both good and bad would have changed, I know mine changed on several people. Enjoy the site and all the crap that goes along with it.
I'm sorry you had this experience. I did visit the D/S and although I didn't post, I also didn't read anything I didn't already know a little about from contact with other people. Was there really any new news? Nope.
My opinions didn't change on anyone- you included. A post is like a snapshot- it's how someone felt at that moment in time. It is not the sum total of that person's character. Who hasn't said/done something they wish they hadn't said/done?? I've met a lot of the folks that posted on D/S at MVI &MVII. Great people- some of the best I know. I chose to regard their statements the same way I would if they'd had too much to drink at a cocktail party. Does it mean they are bad folks because they twisted off a bit? Hell no, they were just a little drunk. Would I hang with them again? Sure would. Don't run off.

SergntMac
10-05-2005, 12:12 PM
My turn. Better go get fresh coffee, beer, whatever...

Was this really an "experiment"? Or, lack of resistance to "I dare you"?

Logan may have set out to teach us all a lesson, but at some point, it soured, and badly too.

I didn't need to be taught this lesson. I learned it in my adolesence. But, I got force fed a helping of this crap anyway.

Yep, it left a mark.

I didn't like it from the beginning, and I said so here. But, I'm JAFO, just one one more voice in a community of voices often never heard. I predicted in a post now gone, that things would be said that could not be un-said at a later time. While administrators here can delete posts, they cannot undo our reading, of insults and accusations against friends, and community leaders.

Administrators can reserve sanctions, grant amensty, but can we forget what our "friends" did, or, said about us? I think not. It's not easy to quench this disappointment.

IMHO, every grown, mature adult is responsible for his actions, and personal conduct, whether there is an experiment underway, or not. Declaring this event an experiment now, does not excuse anyone from their behavior prior to knowing it was an experiment. Disclosing it as such today, as an experiment, almost says "just kidding." But, no one was kidding.

Just to let the membership know, I only visited the alternate site 2 times, once at its inception and once to watch it shut down. Anything that was said over there I did not want to know about, it is important to not color my moderating by comments made elswhere. I recieved many e-mails about this little experiment as every moderator did, but I want to let you folks know that everyone as of this moment has a clean slate, please don't grab the chalk and mark it up. The choice is yours :up: Like a killer snate-bite, Dan, once was all it took. I'm pleased to hear that you can wipe your slate clean. As a board cop, you must not look back at history when keeping peace at the instant. Bravo, my friend, and best wishes. As a member of this community, I cannot be so generous with amensty. My community suffered, and against it's will.

Logan said it himself, this board is a community of people, a gathering from across all boundaries. We are separated by miles, sex, race, age, education, employment, economics, political venues, and so on. Yet, as enduring as these boundaries can be at times, we have accomplished a lot of great things as a community, and all because of one automobile.

I haven't had a "face to face" meet yet, that went bad. Every OTR trip delivered smiles with the miles, the greater the miles, the bigger the smiles.

Haven't seen any fist fights among us, no arguments, no shouting, not any name calling, threats, or, anything near negative vibes between us.

Nothing. Nada, zip, zero, zilch.

I'm not foolish enough to suggest that ill feelings were absent. In fact, I presume they are present always. However, they are in check with self control, and kept in check by mutual respect for others. Does this mean these feelings are supressed? Building like compressed air in some kind of RAGE tank that will someday blow a valve? Well, that's not correct either. Having your own personal dark side in need of release, is abnormal. Get a clue on your mental health before it gets you into bigger trouble than this.

Mature adults learn to manage their disappointment, process their resentment, and treat wounds before they infect. At many meets, I've seen two and three members stroll off to the side and make ammends. I've invited others to walk with me, and I've been invited. This is the way it gets done. In the absence of a meet, e-mail and telephone calls can tide you over until a meet is possible, and then, you can't buy better medicine than the handshake.

You need three things to build friendship. Respect, trust, and loyalty. All of us own these things, and we treasure them. We tend to keep them to ourselves until another has proven they are worthy of this investment in them as a friend. This is wrong. These three "treasures" have no value to us, until we share them, give them away. No function, no value. All of my respect is worthless, unill I give it away. If I do not respect anyone until they prove they are worth it, I won't have any respect for anyone. This is the way it works, think about it. I'm not trying to turn this into a sermon, but I think a lot of us got this stuff wrong, and I think Logan just proved that to us all.

Logan calls for an apology to Dan and Mary, and I don't object. But, don't stop there. IMHO, a much larger apology is due to our community as well, for we suffered the most collateral damage. Assesments are in order, the quality of life for our community remains to be measured. Some folks will have to re-introduce themselves, and start fresh among us. Some are not welcome back at all. However, this is the community's decision, and it needs to be made. Each of us will make our own decisions privately, and move forward from here.

Personally, I find myself very forgiving of most things. I carry no hatred in my heart, it weighs too much to keep with me. I tend to forget insults over time, because that energy is spent enjoying old friends, and making new friends. Y'all can slap me around today, and I'll probably forget it tomorrow and I'm okay with that.

However, I draw the line at intentional, deliberate acts by grown "mature" adults, and I cut no quarter to those lacking self control. Some folks here have lost my friendship forever, and it's their loss. It's also their doing, they gave it up. This is the only sanction I have, and we will not walk it off, should we meet again.

To those of you who participated in this event, please look at your participation from another perspective. Don't apologize for what you may have said about one or two "brothers", but for saying it to all of us, and forcing us to take part in your personal crap. Yes, our "paradise" has been hit by a Hurricane, but let's get busy in recovery. First we sweep away the worthless garbage, rescue the rest for rehab, and rebuild. Garbage out first...

Wouldn't it be great, if Logan someday restored the dark side, and no one needed to use it?

BTW, I didn't mind the cheesecake, but how did that get to be dark?

Bigdogjim
10-05-2005, 12:36 PM
Logan, I just want to say thankyou for allowing all of us to post our comments concerning your experiment. I realize that you could've just posted what you thought, and then locked the thread and left it there, but you didn't. And I appreciate the fact that you didn't. :2thumbs:
Too little too late:)

Bigdogjim
10-05-2005, 12:47 PM
I just want the membership here to know a couple of things...
First off, I was not on the inside on this event. I suspected Logan was trying to prove a point with the Dark forum, but was asked by Logan after the site was up to be the moderator, that should have raised a red flag, but I told him a long time ago I would help out if ever needed.
I have recieved a number of emails and PMs accusing me of playing a part in this debacle in order to trip up or entrap people into badmouthing vendors or moderators. This isnt true, and Logan will attest to that I am sure, but I wanted the general membership to know I was along for the ride along with everyone else. I will say that everything I posted on the Dark side ref moderation on this forum we my opinion and belief and express the way I percieve things here, and were not posted in a hoax to lure others into agreeing with me. I am sorry I accepted the job of moderating the dark side, I really am. People were out of line and just plain assh0les, and as much as I wanted to give them the boot...I couldnt do it under logans anything goes policy, it really put me in the trick bag. I wish more of you would have visited the dark side, maybe your opinions of people, both good and bad would have changed, I know mine changed on several people. So get off my back about being in on the dark side farce, its not true and I'm tired of hearing about it. Enjoy the site and all the crap that goes along with it.

Well next time someone opens the door to a car ask "where are you going?"
Farce or no farce some fell very hard! Other feel nothing but hurt over what was posted. Me I just laugh. Personaly I think it's all funny :P I love the suck ups some are trying to do. Wonder how some of you sleep at night?
Something tell me this is far from over? Hope I am wrong?
Only time will tell.
Don't worry Dave I still love ya!
It's all good in the end.
See on Woodward Ave. next year, you can buy me a :beer:

djv5150
10-05-2005, 01:19 PM
Logan,
Thanks for removing the D/S my 13 year old son is on this site every day.

Two Hawks
10-05-2005, 01:24 PM
... I wish more of you would have visited the dark side, maybe your opinions of people, both good and bad would have changed, I know mine changed on several people. ...I didn't join, but I did visit several times, until I couldn't stand any more. :shake:

After seeing some of the posts, ones directed at people I know, and ones I have not
met but have respect for because of the way they conduct themselves here, it did
change my feelings about some members and I 'm sorry to say mostly for the bad. :(

2003 MIB, you're a very forgiving person and a good friend. IMHO, one can forgive,
it's the forgetting that is the crux of the problem. :(

SergntMac, excellent post :2thumbs:, we're on the same page.

LordVader
10-05-2005, 01:29 PM
:( Just wanted to post my penny's worth. I work on a computer all day and have lost a lot of my zest for the internet and the associated junk that goes with it. When I found this site and the brotherhood here it was and still is refreshing. I really appreciate all the work Logan and company do to keep this site up and running, as well as I try to respect each of you and your right to speak your mind. The information available here is invaluable to me and the MM, so let's just agree to disagree and call it day.

Dr Caleb
10-05-2005, 01:53 PM
I'm a little late, but I'll weigh in since I posted there as well.

To be honest, if it doesn't have anything to do with my car, I usually don't even read the thread. I was a day or two late in finding the dark side, and wondered what Logan was thinking. When he 'outed' me, I realized what he was doing, and thought my experience could help. I edit/moderate a board based souly on political discussion, and I know that is one topic that gets people riled up. All one has to do is challenge another's opinion. If that opinion is based on the opinions of others the person is unable to logically defend their position; anger, name calling and eventually threats to one's person ensues. I know that is exactally the type of discussion Logan, Mary and Dan try to avoid here, because it can only lead to bad places. Sometimes those threats are carried through in the real world. It's happened to me, which is why I write under a pseudonym. MM.net is the only place on the Internet where I've given my first name, and my personal information is available from Mary's list. Hopefully, that shows the trust I feel for this community.

As for 'the experiment', I don't think it's valid to call it 'scientific'. It wasn't meant to be. It was a 'Lord of The Flies' scenario, meant to show people what would really happen if left without rules. I think it was stunning, and disappointing at the same time. It certainally makes me appreciate what the moderators put up with (being there myself) and how their efforts have built this community. It distressed me to see the personal attacks on them. From what I can tell from reading their posts , they are warm, intellegent people who only want to do good. They didn't deserve that. Same goes for Dennis, Lido, Sarge, and anyone else I missed. They've spent their money, and documented processes for us out of the kindness of their hearts at no cost to us, to make the Marauder community better. I've read so much on transmissions, engines, forced air systems etc. that I couldn't possibly have learned anywhere for the price. Dissing' them in print is just wrong.

Well, no regrets. I said what I said. I didn't try to tick anyone off, and not call them down. Nothing I wouldn't have said on this side of the line, excluding that the subject matter isn't permitted. If I did manage to tick anyone off, well, chalk it up to the passion involved in discussing politics, and accept my regets. Your politics is different than mine and is different from most everone elses. It was only my intention to have a discussion with a different crowd on a subject which stirs me, and in which I am versed. It was also my intention to show people how quickly the subject of politics degenerates onto name calling and physical threats, once the advantage of seeing the body cues you miss in a person are removed; when all you can see is their written word. I'm certain many hard feelings have arisen because one cannot hear the intonnation of voice or playful look in the eyes.

Having participated in many on-line communities since the BBS days, I'd also like to make an observation. Whether a total lack of politeness is a reflection of our society or the lack of basic manners in society is a reflection of an increasingly impersonal on-line 'social communities'; there is a disturbing trend that I find was amplified in TheDarkSide. People think that relative anonymity and large distances allows them to be outwardly rude or hostile to others, and what's worse is; those people that are proud of their rudeness! It's just wrong. My 2 cents.

Thanks again to the people who put their skull sweat and time into making this a wonderful community.

And, thanks for reading my rant.

fastblackmerc
10-05-2005, 02:26 PM
Keep up the excellent work Logan, Mary, Dan, and Dennis. I've grone very fond of this site and would hate to see it go. :( BTW what would my Marauder think if I told her the sight was gone:eek: it would never run the same. OK nuff said keep it real and many more good times to come.:beer: P.S. the haters:banned: .
^^^^^I 2nd this....^^^^^^^^^^^^

RCSignals
10-05-2005, 02:43 PM
I'm a little late, but I'll weigh in since I posted there as well.

To be honest, if it doesn't have anything to do with my car, I usually don't even read the thread. I was a day or two late in finding the dark side, and wondered what Logan was thinking. When he 'outed' me, I realized what he was doing, and thought my experience could help. I edit/moderate a board based souly on political discussion, and I know that is one topic that gets people riled up. All one has to do is challenge another's opinion. If that opinion is based on the opinions of others the person is unable to logically defend their position; anger, name calling and eventually threats to one's person ensues. I know that is exactally the type of discussion Logan, Mary and Dan try to avoid here, because it can only lead to bad places. Sometimes those threats are carried through in the real world. It's happened to me, which is why I write under a pseudonym. MM.net is the only place on the Internet where I've given my first name, and my personal information is available from Mary's list. Hopefully, that shows the trust I feel for this community.

As for 'the experiment', I don't think it's valid to call it 'scientific'. It wasn't meant to be. It was a 'Lord of The Flies' scenario, meant to show people what would really happen if left without rules. I think it was stunning, and disappointing at the same time. It certainally makes me appreciate what the moderators put up with (being there myself) and how their efforts have built this community. It distressed me to see the personal attacks on them. From what I can tell from reading their posts , they are warm, intellegent people who only want to do good. They didn't deserve that. Same goes for Dennis, Lido, Sarge, and anyone else I missed. They've spent their money, and documented processes for us out of the kindness of their hearts at no cost to us, to make the Marauder community better. I've read so much on transmissions, engines, forced air systems etc. that I couldn't possibly have learned anywhere for the price. Dissing' them in print is just wrong.

Well, no regrets. I said what I said. I didn't try to tick anyone off, and not call them down. Nothing I wouldn't have said on this side of the line, excluding that the subject matter isn't permitted. If I did manage to tick anyone off, well, chalk it up to the passion involved in discussing politics, and accept my regets. Your politics is different than mine and is different from most everone elses. It was only my intention to have a discussion with a different crowd on a subject which stirs me, and in which I am versed. It was also my intention to show people how quickly the subject of politics degenerates onto name calling and physical threats, once the advantage of seeing the body cues you miss in a person are removed; when all you can see is their written word. I'm certain many hard feelings have arisen because one cannot hear the intonnation of voice or playful look in the eyes.

Having participated in many on-line communities since the BBS days, I'd also like to make an observation. Whether a total lack of politeness is a reflection of our society or the lack of basic manners in society is a reflection of an increasingly impersonal on-line 'social communities'; there is a disturbing trend that I find was amplified in TheDarkSide. People think that relative anonymity and large distances allows them to be outwardly rude or hostile to others, and what's worse is; those people that are proud of their rudeness! It's just wrong. My 2 cents.

Thanks again to the people who put their skull sweat and time into making this a wonderful community.

And, thanks for reading my rant.

Nice rant.

But you really aren't Dr Caleb? :eek: I feel cheated! :P

Blackened300a
10-05-2005, 03:02 PM
Let Me Say first Off To Logan, BRAVO! Great Idea Throwing the Reins to the Masses and Watch the Mayhem Unfold!

I Signed Up for the Darkside, I Admit that I Used words that would be Defined as "Colorful" too. I Also Very Much Enjoyed the Interesting Avatars that Some Guys Had Hiding on Their PC as Well!
But For What Its Worth, I Actually Liked the Darkside and Reading the Funny Posts and seeing the Dopey Pictures. It was like a Car Wreck So I had no choice but to stop and see the Carnage.
It was Obvious that The Site would have Self Destructed within a months time and it Wouldn't Be long before It carried Over to this Site and Ruined All the Work and the Trust Of the Members That have been Relying on this Board for all Their Marauder Needs.
If the DarkSide Ever Returned I Would Definitly Register again. Not to See People Whine and Rant, but to See the Real Side of Some of the Members and Get a feeling for How they Talk and Act Without Having a BabySitter Delete the Thread or Post because it Violated a No Cursing Policy or because it was in bad Taste According to a Moderator.
We all have our Opinions and the Right to Say them, But out of Respect for the Members,the Mods,and the Board itself, Keeping them In good Taste and Within the Rules of this Board is Just fine with me.

Long Live MM.net

Marc
10-05-2005, 03:29 PM
You are so completely right. I've been a very limited visitor to this site for the last several months due to a variety of commitments, so I was really surprised by all of this the last couple of days. At the end of the day, Logan, its your site. No explanation required. Thank you so much for making this available to us. Terminate accounts at will. If they don't like it, let them drive their ricer off and start a site of their own.

Marc

MarauderTJA
10-05-2005, 03:52 PM
Didn't go there, :bs: glad I didn't. I am in Chicago now and was watching my Red Sox get hammered last night. This is a great site and I have met alot of great people who are now my friends. The love for our cars and interchanging information is what it is all about. Thanks to Logan and all the moderators who help keep it civil.

Now, that this DS stuff is over, I hope that Red Sox win tonight :D

gonzo50
10-05-2005, 03:56 PM
Good riddance. Even if people have differences at least they are civil here. That was total anarchy, and it didn't take long to start affecting this side too.
Thank you Logan and staff for the real eye opener, that site would have never lasted another day, I'm glad to hear it was all a bad nightmare and that it's all over.

Redster
10-05-2005, 04:28 PM
Guess I'm in the minority, but I'm used to that living in Texas. Anyway, I thought it was kinda funny. Granted, there were some that went off the deep end but that was part of what made it funny.
My two posts were especially funny IMHO. And they contained no references to persons, companies nor contained any 4 letter words.

Marauderman
10-05-2005, 04:51 PM
Well next time someone opens the door to a car ask "where are you going?"
Farce or no farce some fell very hard! Other feel nothing but hurt over what was posted. Me I just laugh. Personaly I think it's all funny :P I love the suck ups some are trying to do. Wonder how some of you sleep at night?
Something tell me this is far from over? Hope I am wrong?
Only time will tell.
Don't worry Dave I still love ya!
It's all good in the end.
See on Woodward Ave. next year, you can buy me a :beer:
....this is so cool---the comment about the suck ups thing---and probably right--donno--anyway--the real stuff is --meet at the track --lets see whatch got attitude is where it counts....and thats where I am heading............can't tell ya why .....just yet anyway........

seabreeze
10-05-2005, 05:37 PM
I was distressed and embarassed by what some of our community had to write the one time I visited last night. DS turned my stomach.

Thank you Logan, Mary, Dan for this insight into human nature and please, keep the controls on the legitimate MM.net site. The personal value of this site to me cannot be measured. The people I have met through the site are superb, and it is the quality of the MM drivers that participate here, that keep me coming back.

We are all visiting in someone else's house here, and my folks taught me to be on my best behavior when visiting friends, or strangers.

I truly hope that the positive image of MM.net does not suffer permanent damage from the defacing done on the dark side.

Silver_04
10-05-2005, 05:52 PM
*clip* Was it absurd? I don't think so, I'd honestly of been happy to leave it up if people could prove me wrong. *clip*

Not being a smart alec, but I think I'm being misunderstood. I think if the darkside were truly an unmoderated forum without the "actors" it wouldn't have been absurd, thus why I qualified my statement by saying it was an elaborate theatric, so I find it absurd. And not like I expect you to care, but I was really put off that the heavyweights on this website put on this show. Otherwise, it would have been kudos for trying but too bad it didn't work out. What is not absurd is your wish that if given the chance, the users on this site could engage in unmoderated discussion without being total maroons about it...that's a worthy wish.

But these things have a timeline, just like this vanilla version of the website. Start it up, an initial population will flock because it's new and they're gonna check it out. Of course the waters are going to be tested cause who knows what is going to be tolerated, but of course no personality of the site has take root at this point. Given time it will establish a group of regulars and an overall atmosphere. It's the ebb and flow of the internet forum.

Glenn
10-05-2005, 06:27 PM
First, thank you Logan for this fine MM.net website. My MM would not be what it is today without MM.net. I will admit my time on the DS was a little scary with what I read and saw. I am glad it is gone. I really enjoy this net the way it is run and managed. My $.02.

Glenn

Donny Carlson
10-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Edit: Just posting the rant was enough. Move on, nothing to see here.

CRUZTAKER
10-05-2005, 06:47 PM
Edit: Just posting the rant was enough. Move on, nothing to see here.
In my best soup nazi voice....

No negative rep points for you...thirty days...:P

Donny Carlson
10-05-2005, 07:07 PM
BTW, I didn't mind the cheesecake, but how did that get to be dark?
(Homer Simpson voice)

Chocolate Cheescake......

http://www.mrsmithsrecipes.com/mrsmithsrecipes/images/cakes/4cs-cheesecake-normal.jpg

LiLWrink
10-05-2005, 07:55 PM
Logan!

Whaaaazup???
First--
Thanks Logan, and you other folks! For building, and maintaining a site where I can surf at will, day or night, carry on free conversation, about nearly anything, and not fear any trouble from my employment, my wife, and my neighbors. (Actually for me... my wife's opinion IS the only one that counts!!! I have quit better jobs...and I dont think the neighbors give a Rat's Patootie!)

I visited the Dark Side, but was not able to log in, (Dang-It!) to see what was up in Logan's mind (That was a bad visual!)...first thread I clicked on brought up an enourmous set of knockers, (WOW!)...all fine and good--except---
here in the real world (anything viewed as porn...) will get many career professional people escorted to the front door of the last place they were employed, including me. NOT Cool.

I did not know that this was only a test, I only know that there is a time and place for everything, and I simply did not have the time...and work definatly aint the place...that was simply the end of that.

Me and Logan used to hang out, and visit after Cougar Club Meetings, you want to mess with him, you got to come see me...(said in my best New York, Italian, mafia accent) I dont view any bashing directed towards Logan as cool...(Logan? whose bed gets this Horse's head???)




What? you people drive cars that were actually built in this decade???
NOT ME! Nooooo, Nooooo, Noooo...Vintage Iron works for me, thank you very much. 1963 390 4-V Super Marauder (21 foot long, and 2 tons of luxury!)

P.S. Maurey, we missed you at the fair!

:beer:

Bradley G
10-05-2005, 09:26 PM
Amused at some of the posts.
I did register, tempted to sling a few wise cracks around.
I felt if , I did join in, I would be endorseing the wrong party(s)

Kinda reminded me of as a kid, yelling to hear my own voice echo.
Or when the teacher left the classroom full of students.
What I felt most pity for, was the anger some people showed.

Made me feel very greatful, for all the wonderful people that have contributed to the community.
Thanks a million to all my Marauder Brotherns + Sisterens!!! :bigcry:

Bradley G
10-05-2005, 09:29 PM
Amused at some of the posts.
I did register, tempted to sling a few wise cracks around.
I felt if , I did join in, I would be endorseing the wrong party(s)

Kinda reminded me of as a kid, yelling to hear my own voice echo.
Or when the teacher left the classroom full of students.
What I felt most pity for, was the anger some people showed.

Made me feel very greatful, for all the wonderful people that have contributed to the community.
Thanks a million to all my Marauder Brotherns + Sisterens!!! :bigcry:PS. I read all seven pages and I got #100. Can you guys Gold plate my supercharger?:P

BillyGman
10-05-2005, 10:01 PM
Too little too late:)Jim, I'm really not sure what you meant by your "too little and too late" statement since it's ambiguous. I have nothing to be sorry about. I don't regret anything that I posted in the Darkside, and the only reason why I don't post it here is because Logan doesn't want it here, and I know that. I didn't go off the deep end at all while posting there IMO, and if you or anyone else doesn't agree with that, then that's simply your problem, and not mine. If you think that what I've stated is too little too late because of what other board members wrote over there, then hey, that isn't my biz, because they have to answer for themselves. I cannot answer for them.

RCSignals
10-05-2005, 10:18 PM
............................ I think if the darkside were truly an unmoderated forum without the "actors" it wouldn't have been absurd, thus why I qualified my statement by saying it was an elaborate theatric, so I find it absurd. And not like I expect you to care, but I was really put off that the heavyweights on this website put on this show. Otherwise, it would have been kudos for trying but too bad it didn't work out. What is not absurd is your wish that if given the chance, the users on this site could engage in unmoderated discussion without being total maroons about it...that's a worthy wish.

......................

Were there "actors" posting on DS? I'm not yet convinced of it. I didn't interpret what Logan said as "actors" posing as other members to post cr*p on purpose.

Even if "actors were posting though, it doesn't explain nor excuse the posts of the non "actors" who posted on the DS.

MI2QWK4U
10-05-2005, 10:39 PM
Were there "actors" posting on DS? I'm not yet convinced of it. I didn't interpret what Logan said as "actors" posing as other members to post cr*p on purpose.

Even if "actors were posting though, it doesn't explain nor excuse the posts of the non "actors" who posted on the DS.


RC I dont think there were, I know I wasnt.

RCSignals
10-05-2005, 11:07 PM
RC I dont think there were, I know I wasnt.

That's my feeling, that there weren't any actors of the playing a role sense.


As I re-read Logan's post, I get that Logan created the DS as an 'experiment' to see how an unmoderated forum would work. He created an 'open range' or 'blank slate' and stood back.
The 'actors' Logan refers to are only those who registered and participated, and not 'plants' to agitate.
Dennis has confirmed in his forum that he was not a knowing participant in all this, something I suspected. I can only guess at Logan's surprise when Dennis reacted as he did.

Dave, I also believe you when you said you were not part of any 'play' I can imagine your frustration at being a moderator of an unmoderated board, having read some of what was going on there!

Mike M
10-05-2005, 11:12 PM
I take off for a few days from this site and it sounds like all hell broke out. I really don't want to re-hash but can someone send me a recap of what happened?
Thanks

bigslim
10-05-2005, 11:30 PM
I guess the one thing I just don't understand is how everyone is giving kudo's to Logan for setting up a site to cause such disharmony. I think that if there was problem with some people it could have been handled differently. I myself am gald that I got to say somethings. Others I am sure were blindsided by all of this. It makes me also wonder if certain people were tipped off by what was going to happen. I know there are some people that would always come to their defense when they had too. But on this occasion they remained quiet. I really don't want to start anything here. I just wanted to get this off my chest. I will thank you Logan for us this site. I however will not thank him for what was done this week.

RCSignals
10-05-2005, 11:51 PM
I guess the one thing I just don't understand is how everyone is giving kudo's to Logan for setting up a site to cause such disharmony. ...............

I really do not think he set DS up to purposely cause any disharmony.
I think he wanted to see, as he indicated in his post, just how well, or not well, it would go. If it went well, I do believe he would have either kept it, or created a special forum on mm.net.
What happened, IMO, blindsided him.
It blinsided many people, including supporting vendors, one of which felt he should close his forum because of it!

Any disharmony as an aftermath was or will be the result of those certain people who posted on the DS.

Smokie
10-06-2005, 04:32 AM
Some people obey the law because they fear the punishment....others because the good in them outweighs the bad.

Everyone had the choice to exercise their free will, no one was forced to write vile and violents thoughts. I don't think Logan should have done this......but remember he didn't tell anyone what to write once there.

Now those that feel that there is too much law enforcement have proof that if you remove the fear of punishment many people will behave like wild animals.

A person even after doing wrong can choose to be BETTER the next time around, even if you are surrounded by BAD you can choose to be good....it takes guts that's all.
Bad is often mistaken for COOL....when you reach the point in your life when you DECIDE that GOOD is COOL...you are there my friend.

2003 MIB
10-06-2005, 04:48 AM
So after just joining and seeing how things are done around here, I will have no part of it, I am leaving.
This month's winner for "most ironic screen name" is...:D

03whitemach
10-06-2005, 04:53 AM
The darkside was actually comical in a sense. I never posted or joined, but I read some of the posts/threads. I think he had good intentions. I think, just like everything else, people took advantage of a situation. You know the old saying, " a few bad apples spoil the bunch", thats what happened.
Logan, even though I don't have a Marauder, I have met a lot of people from here, and I wanted to thank you and the gang for a great site.

MM03MOK
10-06-2005, 05:16 AM
I feel the only ones that should be sorry here are Logan and his moderators for planning this fiasco.This "fiasco" was a one-man decision - The Boss. In a sense, he wisely chose not to clue ANYONE in on his motives in creating the Darkside, though it may have been obvious to some. Logan has dropped bombs before and the only reason he does is to rein the troops in. What's done, is done. If we can learn something from this and move forward as a move cohesive group, I guess the "fiasco" has some merit.

rookie1
10-06-2005, 05:45 AM
My wife is always complaining(typically sometime during her opening 5 minute ramble concerning something totally inconsequential) that I am clueless about most of what is going on in our day to day life.

After reading this thread and realizing that I visit the site everyday and had no idea what was going on with this dark side thing, I am wondering if she's onto something.

Hack Goby
10-06-2005, 07:42 AM
I read this thread and saw the Darkside and have one question. Why set up a site advertised as anything goes and then shut it down when you find it disturbing how fast things turned. What did you expect???? This "experiment" was a set-up not to bring out the bad in people but for the moderators to divide the people on this site. Funny thing is, now that the DS is down you have members here coming back to apoligize or state they said nothing wrong while there. I feel the only ones that should be sorry here are Logan and his moderators for planning this fiasco. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same about this, but of course, are afraid to speak up. So after just joining and seeing how things are done around here, I will have no part of it, I am leaving.
Well Im not leaving but I agree that this was a setup and maybe people got tipped off.Alot of people know to control them selfs and "Bite the bullett"when things are said about them.Others just have to "Fire" back and make there stand. Telling people that on the Darkside you can do what you want and then turn it off when they do(I hope you got all the names)to me is a setup not an experiment.Whats funny though is that last nite on chat the shoe was on the other foot.The Darkside moderator(another setup)is always there to chat and though maybe he had it comming, a few of the so called "good guys" demanded an apology and spewed words that were quite commen on the Darkside and even said the "God will strike you down"if he didn`t then the apology was made.BUT! The person that the apology was for was to busy talking on the phone and missed it at the time it was made.It was all down hill after that so I left.Like I said Im not going away but how I feel about this place will always be different.

DEFYANT
10-06-2005, 07:54 AM
I keep reading how "I did not register" "I never made a comment there" "I never heard of the Darkside".....

WELL WHO WAS OVER THERE!!!???

We had about 100 people sign up before the plug was pulled. I guesstimate less than 10 people on this thread have admitted signing up.

Hack Goby
10-06-2005, 07:58 AM
I keep reading how "I did not register" "I never made a comment there" "I never heard of the Darkside".....

WELL WHO WAS OVER THERE!!!???

We had about 100 people sign up before the plug was pulled. I guesstimate less than 10 people on this thread have admitted signing up.
You said boobie`s and I was hooked.But I never made any comments about people I was just the "Motor City Tittie man".

DEFYANT
10-06-2005, 08:07 AM
You said boobie`s and I was hooked.But I never made any comments about people I was just the "Motor City Tittie man".
:D
For the record, I broke the only rule in a forum with no rules.

:banana2:

AzMarauder
10-06-2005, 08:11 AM
I read this thread and saw the Darkside and have one question. Why set up a site advertised as anything goes and then shut it down when you find it disturbing how fast things turned. What did you expect???? This "experiment" was a set-up not to bring out the bad in people but for the moderators to divide the people on this site. Funny thing is, now that the DS is down you have members here coming back to apoligize or state they said nothing wrong while there. I feel the only ones that should be sorry here are Logan and his moderators for planning this fiasco. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same about this, but of course, are afraid to speak up. So after just joining and seeing how things are done around here, I will have no part of it, I am leaving.
Good points... and coming or going is certainly your perogative. However, if you own a Marauder, you may want to reconsider you decision simply from a selfish point of view. It costs you nothing to be here, the site is a wealth of information concerning the car, despite how some people come across, there are a LOT of helpful people.

ckadiddle
10-06-2005, 08:13 AM
I registered and visited the darkside once before it got yanked. Found it to be the waste of server space that many internet boards are. That's why I don't frequent many BBSes. MM.net is the ONLY one I am on frequently! I check in several times a day. Because it is a WELL moderated board, I am comfortable viewing it from the office. Why is this important to me? We have written policies against most of the things Logan, Mary, and Dan edit out of this board. I wish to thank them for their undying attention to such things so that I may continue to enjoy mm.net every day with ignorance of how much work is involved behind the scenes. I have worked in various aspects of computer stuff for about fifteen years now, and have keen appreciation of the brainslaves that make things go, since I am one of them.

This is Logan's house, and we are privileged to be welcomed into it.

AzMarauder
10-06-2005, 08:15 AM
<snip> If we can learn something from this and move forward as a move cohesive group, I guess the "fiasco" has some merit.
Mary, I think your statement above is the key!

We can spend a lot of time focusing on whether Logan's decision was "wise" or not. I have my opinion concerning that as I am sure many do. But it is wasted energy to analyze the motive etc. Better we just focus on moving forward.

AzMarauder
10-06-2005, 08:28 AM
<SNIP>

This is Logan's house, and we are privileged to be welcomed into it.This statement is true to an extent, and many here keeping mouthing such things. But I think it is missleading and might even be the root of some the "issues" this forum has. No one disputes the efforts put into the MM.net by Logan and crew and they don't get near the thanks they deserve. OTOH, this board is like a publicly traded company as well. If you charge advertisers then you have a responsibility to those advertisers.... and the conduct of the board business should reflect that responsibility. Also, I think this statement allows some people to absolve themselves on inherent personal responsibilities. What I mean by that is, if this is Logan's house then I don't have to concern myself with something needed to be fixed, if the dishes are done, etc. Or, rather than use analogies, I don't have to worry about censoring people whose conduct is not representative of how I would like our community to be. I simply sit back and let Logan and moderators shoulder the load rather than sending a PM and trying to "nudge" a person to alter their ways.

No.. I don't disagree this is Logan's house... but it is an empty house, with no color, no warmth, no life without the community that visits this house. So perhaps we should look at it a different way. This is OUR house... Logan happens to be the landlord!

MERCMAN
10-06-2005, 08:33 AM
Well put! :up:

gray bear
10-06-2005, 08:39 AM
Logan, you really had me going with the D/S, but I must admit, though I feel used, That posting threads against the "DarkSide" was the most entertaining and fun thing I have been involved in on this site, in a long time. Seeing members of this site rally to get it shut down did my heart some good. Once again good has overcome evil, and as long as you, the moderators, and the good people of this site exist, it always will.
Thanks for giving us a safe playground to talk cars.

merc406
10-06-2005, 09:26 AM
Never fail to ? authority, including, your own.............

Agent M79
10-06-2005, 09:52 AM
I did not post on that website, the Darkside.So there it is.

CRUZTAKER
10-06-2005, 10:24 AM
It makes me also wonder if certain people were tipped off by what was going to happen. I know there are some people that would always come to their defense when they had too. But on this occasion they remained quiet.
Good question. I don't feel anyone was tipped off. Perhaps they felt the way I did. :dunno:




I keep reading how "I did not register" "I never made a comment there" "I never heard of the Darkside".....
WELL WHO WAS OVER THERE!!!???.
We had about 100 people sign up before the plug was pulled. I guesstimate less than 10 people on this thread have admitted signing up.
As for me, I admit reading every single post in every thread up until it died. Atleast up to the last 2 hours. I really wanted to get involved...but my wife warned me from day 1 "....don't get involved!!! Think about it Barry."

I wouldn't have stuck up for anyone anyhow. There were only two topics I wanted to jump in on, and after long thought, my input wouldn't have changed a thing. Even if my name had been directly mentioned in a negative way...I was prepared to just let it slide. All I had to offer was my discontent for a few people that don't care for me for whatever reason. I discovered something. THAT'S MY PROBLEM, not theirs. Why tell the public?

BillyGman
10-06-2005, 10:44 AM
Good points... and coming or going is certainly your perogative. However, if you own a Marauder, you may want to reconsider you decision simply from a selfish point of view. It costs you nothing to be here, the site is a wealth of information concerning the car, despite how some people come across, there are a LOT of helpful people.YES! I agree! Well put.

BillyGman
10-06-2005, 10:54 AM
Now those that feel that there is too much law enforcement have proof that if you remove the fear of punishment many people will behave like wild animals.Yes, but it doesn't prove that having too many rules, or being too restricted is good either. Like I stated in post #44, you're talking about two extremes. The Darkside could've been set-up with light moderation, and just a few light rules, and over the longhaul, things would've gone much differently over there than they did. But all of this is moot anyway, because it isn't our decision, it's LOGAN's.


Bad is often mistaken for COOL....when you reach the point in your life when you DECIDE that GOOD is COOL...you are there my friend.Yes, I agree w/the latter part of your post right there^. Good point Javier.

STLR FN
10-06-2005, 10:59 AM
I my previous post I signed up, RedRauder. I had "fun" with Dave and Mike and I do believe you Defyant. "Jerky" ring a bell. Otherwise I left the other "attacks" alone as I had no interest in them because I had no dealings with the party being attacked.

I do feel at times this site is heavy handed but as stated earlier this is Logan's house and I'll abide his rules no matter how I feel about them.

I was mainly interested in the B(o)(o)bies.

I'll leave it at that......

I keep reading how "I did not register" "I never made a comment there" "I never heard of the Darkside".....

WELL WHO WAS OVER THERE!!!???

We had about 100 people sign up before the plug was pulled. I guesstimate less than 10 people on this thread have admitted signing up.

Smokie
10-06-2005, 11:01 AM
Billy, I say this sincerely, you posted over there about the things you enjoy and kept it real, no venom. Billy over there, same Billy over here. I respect that.:bows:

Smokie
10-06-2005, 11:09 AM
...I was mainly interested in the B(o)(o)bies. ......Yeah....the boobies that never were.....sad.:cry:

Haggis
10-06-2005, 12:11 PM
I registered on the DS and was sucked in hook line and sinker, but I was still myself over there. I do not apologize for anything I said for it came straight from the heart.

You are all my family here whether we get along or not, there are some members of my family I have not talked to in over twenty years, my choice. Whether we get along or not doesn't matter we all of something to contribute here, whether it be jokes, stories or technicial stuff.

I am here to talk to my friends and share my stories with them and to arrange mothly meets where we can sit down together and shoot the bull.

You all take care now and see you next time at MM.net.

:grouphug:

Breadfan
10-06-2005, 12:49 PM
I never got my confirmation email.... :(

From what I heard though I might not have had much to say over there, probably just nabbed some of the comedy-related stuff. :)

There's already a place for that though, something about ... mayhem...

tmac1337
10-06-2005, 12:50 PM
I'm still toying with the idea of a Opt-in subforum, where people can go to debate with less restriction. It wouldn't change our moderating from the perspective of vendor, or moderator attacks, but conversations like the Fuel Octane/Performance thread would be allowed to continue through their natural course.

Let me first start off by publically saying Thank You to Logan for reinstituting my orginal account (some may like that fact, some not). He showed himself to be honorable to his word and it is my intention to do the same.

Yes the Darkside was full of profanity and utter nonsense, but I also did read some things by members which obviously needed some air clearing. That forum proved without a doubt there is no need for profanity, personal attacks, and that a sites vendors should be protected (yes I'm being serious here).

It also proved in my opinion that a "smack down" forum with less regulation could be beneficial, a happy medium with no profanity, no personal attacks, and no vendor bashing, which would allow threads like Superchargers to be debated as long as it is not malicious. For those that did not like it they could simply opt out of participating there. As far as vendor bashing, you can't state facts or opinions about vendors openly or there simply will not be any here to support the site. Want to bash, and I am no angel, take it to SVTperformance, eventually everything comes out formerly or behind the scenes anyway.

Moderation will never be objective, as human beings are subjective. A smattering of all camps would be fair.

Breadfan
10-06-2005, 12:55 PM
FWIW I am not sure an opt-in forum would work too well, unless it had some strict rules of conduct that did allow more discussions but kept the ugly out of it.

On Overclockers we would promote people to senior level based on their experience and conduct they've shown. Senior members have the "blue room" which is their own page with relaxed rules. Even in this environment some tempers have flared up...but it's all been dealt with. Most (I say MOST) of the people there are much more adult.

Of course, in a computer tech forum with a gaming section you get plenty of younger folk too, so perhaps it has more bearing on a site like that. While we have our young people in this forum, I'd say the average age here is over 20years, the average age at Overclockers may have been less than 20years.

Whether or not that would work here or you'd ever consider doing it, it's just how it's been done elsewhere and I thought maybe it can serve as information to be digested during any planning.

RCSignals
10-06-2005, 02:09 PM
I read this thread and saw the Darkside and have one question. Why set up a site advertised as anything goes and then shut it down when you find it disturbing how fast things turned. What did you expect???? This "experiment" was a set-up not to bring out the bad in people but for the moderators to divide the people on this site. Funny thing is, now that the DS is down you have members here coming back to apoligize or state they said nothing wrong while there. I feel the only ones that should be sorry here are Logan and his moderators for planning this fiasco. I'm sure there are others here who feel the same about this, but of course, are afraid to speak up. So after just joining and seeing how things are done around here, I will have no part of it, I am leaving.

That's really too bad.
You have a twin turbo charged, nitrous equipped Marauder by Calloway and haven't told us anything about it.
You only registered here on 19 September. We'd like to hear about your Marauder.

WolfeBros
10-06-2005, 03:34 PM
Was a pretty good place when the passion was about the car and people here. :dunno: Glad I missed the fiasco. :nono:

BillyGman
10-06-2005, 04:32 PM
Billy, I say this sincerely, you posted over there about the things you enjoy and kept it real, no venom. Billy over there, same Billy over here. I respect that.:bows:Thanks very much for your acknowledgement Javier. I really appreciate that, and consider that quite a compliment coming from you.

Joe Walsh
10-06-2005, 05:07 PM
I keep reading how "I did not register" "I never made a comment there" "I never heard of the Darkside".....

WELL WHO WAS OVER THERE!!!???

We had about 100 people sign up before the plug was pulled. I guesstimate less than 10 people on this thread have admitted signing up.


I registered, I posted comments, I enjoyed many of the threads on the Darkside. I didn't try too hard to disguise my name from what I use over here. (HSLAW EOJ)

The only thing that got me was a couple of "Internet 'Roid Rangers" acting like they were X rated Pro wrestlers.
They were going ballistic on each other and were personally attacking just about anyone who posted on their threads. Their posts were unbelievably nasty and cruel......
I would hope that those morons will/are banned from this site. They can start up their own site and wallow in their own personal problems.

Mike Poore
10-06-2005, 05:25 PM
Senior members have the "blue room" which is their own page with relaxed rules. .
But, but, we already have that, sort of. Logan set up a Members Section for just that purpose, and nobody goes there. Are you saying it would be more popular if he'd allow us to go there and cuss at one another?

MikesMerc
10-06-2005, 05:34 PM
I didn't like the idea of Darkside site the minute it opened. It was destined to become what it did. There were quite a few pent up opinions and emotions that were unable to be expressed here, and it all rushed out at once on the DS. Things just got ugly from there.

The DS "experiment" proved nothing. I don't beleive anybody asked for a site with zero moderation. Just because a lawless anarchy that practically goads folks into spouting off crumbles and fails does not mean that an over moderated police state is any better. We completey missed the grey area in the middle. Looser rules to allow more expression, tempered with the golden rules never to be broken. This can be done. I currently moderate a another PC related site that does this successully.

I'm glad I didn't get "sucked in" on the DS. I'm sure it surprises many that I didn't. I posted only twice in my own thread titled "Freedom" in which I expressed my support of the concept of less moderation. Now I wished I would not have even done that.

What's even worse than the "experiment" itself is the aftermath. There IS permanent damage. Many folks were hurt by those spewing venomous insults, while others were hurt by the simple truth.

There are some folks being "prosecuted" right now on mm.net because they made nothing but truthful expressions of how they felt. Those "in power" here have made it clear they will "never forgive" certain folks for doing nothing but post their honest feelings. I'm sure some of what was posted exposed a few folks as to what they talk about behind closed doors, and I am sure it embaressed them (well, at least it should have). But to see the ongoing reaction from those exposed makes me sick. On one hand you have folks that spewed venomous attacks against vendors being "forgiven" while you have others that critized current mm.net mods being held "without amnesty." This only serves to tell me how disingenuine the "clean slate" rhetoric really is.

The DS idea was a bad idea. Lot's of venom was spewed no doubt. But, I challenge those who may have been the target of heavy criticism over there to look within themselves and consider whether they did anything...anything at all, that might have brought it on. We can scorn and ridicule those that posted heated criticism on the DS until the cows come home.....or we can get over the hurt and learn from it a little as well. That's the ONLY positive thing that can come out of the DS fiasco.

Blackened300a
10-06-2005, 07:01 PM
We can Sit here and Debate if The DarkSide was a good idea or Not for the next 6 months, But the Bottom Line is, The DarkSide is History, If you feel that some of the Members were Cruel and they Left a Bad Taste in your Mouth, Hey, there is a Block and Ignore Feature, Use it. It Seemed From Reading Most of the Posts that Some Members had Problems with Each other For quite a While, Im Sure it wasn't a Big Surprise When The Darkside was Used to Vent out the Fustration and Anger Towards Each Other for Whatever Reasons. Remember, Its only Words on a Screen.

Bigdogjim
10-06-2005, 08:43 PM
What's even worse than the "experiment" itself is the aftermath. There IS permanent damage. Many folks were hurt by those spewing venomous insults, while others were hurt by the simple truth.
Yes Mike I agree that "permanent damage" has been done.

Logan set his own house on fire!

RCSignals
10-06-2005, 08:46 PM
I registered on the DS and was sucked in hook line and sinker, but I was still myself over there. I do not apologize for anything I said for it came straight from the heart.

You are all my family here whether we get along or not, there are some members of my family I have not talked to in over twenty years, my choice. Whether we get along or not doesn't matter we all of something to contribute here, whether it be jokes, stories or technicial stuff.

I am here to talk to my friends and share my stories with them and to arrange mothly meets where we can sit down together and shoot the bull.

You all take care now and see you next time at MM.net.

:grouphug:


Hi Gordon. You have nothing to be ashamed of or to apologise for.

Keep your kilt away from those mothly meets! :eek:

Breadfan
10-06-2005, 09:00 PM
But, but, we already have that, sort of. Logan set up a Members Section for just that purpose, and nobody goes there. Are you saying it would be more popular if he'd allow us to go there and cuss at one another?
That is not quite what I was referring to. What the blue room is on that forum is a place with relaxed rules. Since the people allowed in based on a nomination and agreement from moderators, the atmosphere is more adult and cussing matches don't break out.

The members only section is different - it's a "pay to play" place. An "a-hole" could just donate some cash and go in and wreak havoc. The blue room on Overclockers is not opened up via monetary means, access is only gained through a lengthy display of an adult attitude, community awareness, willingness to help others, and in our case, technical knowledge in terms of computer hardware and/or software.

Rider90
10-06-2005, 09:14 PM
Missed it all...party woooo

Donny Carlson
10-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Let's see, put up a website, say its for "blowing off steam," design it with forum descriptions and user titles that encourage a certain manner of behavior, then once people behave like that, reveal it was really something else entirely and proceed to scold them like naughty children and sweepingly condemn all the people who signed up regardless of what they actually posted.

Here's what words comes to mind:

deception
hoax
sham
contrivance
play
ruse
fake
pretence
lie
trick
mislead


I say this: I am less unhappy with coarse language and flame wars than I am about being misled and played.

STLR FN
10-06-2005, 10:07 PM
Oh they were there... til it got nuked.:(
Yeah....the boobies that never were.....sad.:cry:

STLR FN
10-06-2005, 10:14 PM
The roof, the roof
The roof is on fire,
we don't need no water,
let the sucker burn.
Yes Mike I agree that "permanent damage" has been done.

Logan set his own house on fire!

bigslim
10-06-2005, 10:53 PM
True we are a family here. But like anyones family there are the bad uncles that you don't want at your BBQ. I have always had fun with most of guys. I have always gotten along with most of you. Somehow that has changed. It is really too bad this has happened. Hell, it was just a short time ago we here in the Motor City were busting us azzes to pull off MV-III. What was such a great memory is now tarnished by what has happened. It was just a month ago Logan and I were enjoying the festivies and now I feel blindsided by him. As I have stated before I am thankful that Logan provided us with a place to meet new friends. I have many people that I call my friends from this site. However, it will never be the same for me here. I will still post but maybe not as much. I know now that at anytime I may get suckered into another evil plot.


I registered on the DS and was sucked in hook line and sinker, but I was still myself over there. I do not apologize for anything I said for it came straight from the heart.

You are all my family here whether we get along or not, there are some members of my family I have not talked to in over twenty years, my choice. Whether we get along or not doesn't matter we all of something to contribute here, whether it be jokes, stories or technicial stuff.

I am here to talk to my friends and share my stories with them and to arrange mothly meets where we can sit down together and shoot the bull.

You all take care now and see you next time at MM.net.

:grouphug:

bigslim
10-06-2005, 10:54 PM
Well said Mike. At least we still have our site and our MCM family.


I didn't like the idea of Darkside site the minute it opened. It was destined to become what it did. There were quite a few pent up opinions and emotions that were unable to be expressed here, and it all rushed out at once on the DS. Things just got ugly from there.

The DS "experiment" proved nothing. I don't beleive anybody asked for a site with zero moderation. Just because a lawless anarchy that practically goads folks into spouting off crumbles and fails does not mean that an over moderated police state is any better. We completey missed the grey area in the middle. Looser rules to allow more expression, tempered with the golden rules never to be broken. This can be done. I currently moderate a another PC related site that does this successully.

I'm glad I didn't get "sucked in" on the DS. I'm sure it surprises many that I didn't. I posted only twice in my own thread titled "Freedom" in which I expressed my support of the concept of less moderation. Now I wished I would not have even done that.

What's even worse than the "experiment" itself is the aftermath. There IS permanent damage. Many folks were hurt by those spewing venomous insults, while others were hurt by the simple truth.

There are some folks being "prosecuted" right now on mm.net because they made nothing but truthful expressions of how they felt. Those "in power" here have made it clear they will "never forgive" certain folks for doing nothing but post their honest feelings. I'm sure some of what was posted exposed a few folks as to what they talk about behind closed doors, and I am sure it embaressed them (well, at least it should have). But to see the ongoing reaction from those exposed makes me sick. On one hand you have folks that spewed venomous attacks against vendors being "forgiven" while you have others that critized current mm.net mods being held "without amnesty." This only serves to tell me how disingenuine the "clean slate" rhetoric really is.

The DS idea was a bad idea. Lot's of venom was spewed no doubt. But, I challenge those who may have been the target of heavy criticism over there to look within themselves and consider whether they did anything...anything at all, that might have brought it on. We can scorn and ridicule those that posted heated criticism on the DS until the cows come home.....or we can get over the hurt and learn from it a little as well. That's the ONLY positive thing that can come out of the DS fiasco.

Smokie
10-07-2005, 02:21 AM
I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, Mike mentioned prosecution. The stuff was erased, people have short memories. I didn't read all, some was silly, other stuff depressed me.

I suggest that we move on, brothers fight, they remain brothers. If anyone feels bad about saying hurtful things to another member, do the hardest thing of all....if possible express your regrets in person or by phone.

What matters now is not "what happenned", is more important what happens next, we can continue to disagree on just about anything; take a pause before you express your disagreement with an insult.
The majority of what went on over there was dirty talk, a couple of guys kinda bashed each other keyboad vs. keyboard. Maybe if they were to talk, they would find they have more in common than what separates them.

Some attacks were one-sided, very personal. It would take a big man to say "I'm sorry", of course it may well be the attackers are not sorry at all in which case at least the injured parties know exactly who their friends are not.
I know comments have been made about people apologizing to the community at large and I don't feel there is a need for that.

The personal stuff should be resolved, the rest is water under the bridge.

2003 MIB
10-07-2005, 04:05 AM
However, it will never be the same for me here. I will still post but maybe not as much. I know now that at anytime I may get suckered into another evil plot.
I think you're in a very unique position, D.
When you post something questionable (for lack of a better word)- you let folks know that you're coming at it as the Aniti-Slim. I always read that stuff with a grain of salt- An "Whoa, Slim's twisted about something- I wonder what's up?" kind of thing.
Evil plot seems a little dramatic- I get that your feelings are hurt and so are some other folks but that was a few days ago...The three best words in the English language are not "Live Nude Girls" they are "Let It Go". Why let this incident change anything? Somebody else said "it's just words on a screen"- I think there's wisdom in that.

04funmerc
10-07-2005, 06:35 AM
Well said Mike. At least we still have our site and our MCM family.
And hpofully still growing..

I gave a calling card to a guy Tues. (Get out of jail free), He never heard of the MM. Net. Has a Blk MM. He was going on a road trip for a few days. I hope we here from when he gets back.

JIM

GodOSpeed
10-07-2005, 09:04 AM
As I approach my three year aniversary (January 09 03) of owning this bundle of pure potential... I find myself owing considerable thanks to the inovators of performance, finders of squeaks and rattles, clean freaks, detectors of defects, techs with the tech, audiophiles, Chevy loving Logan, and the rest of you SOBs that have a mutual intrest in preserving and improving our little piece of gen Xers hot rod era.

Being a man of modest means I use this site to its fullest and appreciate every second of it.

Thanks to all. :bows:
Chad.

Bigdogjim
10-07-2005, 10:38 AM
Some attacks were one-sided, very personal. It would take a big man to say "I'm sorry", of course it may well be the attackers are not sorry at all in which case at least the injured parties know exactly who their friends are not.This is what Mac and I have echoed for years now!

Funny thing is we have never had a report of the police being call in at a Marauder meet. Yet on a web site you think it's all out war? Power junkies behind a keyboard. Call it what you want.

I full well know not everyone can or wants to travel 10 states to say hi.

I almost sure that 90% of us are in rage of local events. Local car shows are a great place to start. last show I was at I hooked up with 5 really cool SS people. I have been to local meets when only I other owner showed up. Early on in King Of Prussia, Pa. A guy name Mark. We fell out of touch now do not even know if he has a Marauder still? A other member from MV1 & MV 2, nomad (John) I still talk to and e-mail he watches the board but does not post. John traveled from Syracuse, NY to the Buck Hotel (Feasterville, Pa.) one Sunday and we hooked up with Ray The Dealer and (Ron) X369. Friends all of us. Good things happen when YOU let them. So if your main goal is disrupt the web site then hey take your best shot. I know that a rather strong element here will not let that happen. So now we have a "house a fire" but soon the flames will turn to embers and the re-build will begin a new. So Tallboy next time your in Ct. grab the G-man and I'll buy you both lunch:)

Face to face guaranteed to work.

Remember people..... not the car. That's what's important.

DEFYANT
10-07-2005, 10:53 AM
Somebody else said "it's just words on a screen"- I think there's wisdom in that.
You want wisdom? I got wisdom.... how is this:

Words are like toothpaste, once the toothpaste is out of the tube, you can't put it back in.

I guess all we can do is brush our teeth and how everyone like our nice smile and fresh breath.

...and if you got a problem with someone, bring it to them right away next time. Mac said it best earlier. It does no good to bottle it up until the anger/pressure builds up to the breaking point.

Just :puke: it out.

Bluerauder
10-07-2005, 11:09 AM
Funny thing is we have never had a report of the police being call in at a Marauder meet.

Uuh Oh !!! :o Does Mall Security count?? :rofl: Seems we were in "flagrant violation" of the car show permit rules. :rolleyes:

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/Security_Says_No_Car_Shows.jpg

RCSignals
10-07-2005, 11:56 AM
....................The three best words in the English language are not "Live Nude Girls" they are "Let It Go".


Just don't put all six together in that order. You may go blind.




Why let this incident change anything? ........

Agreed

BillyGman
10-07-2005, 12:22 PM
. So Tallboy next time your in Ct. grab the G-man and I'll buy you both lunch:)

Face to face guaranteed to work.

Remember people..... not the car. That's what's important.Not a bad idea Jim.

BillyGman
10-07-2005, 12:25 PM
I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, Mike mentioned prosecution. The stuff was erased, people have short memories. I didn't read all, some was silly, other stuff depressed me.

I suggest that we move on, brothers fight, they remain brothers. If anyone feels bad about saying hurtful things to another member, do the hardest thing of all....if possible express your regrets in person or by phone.

What matters now is not "what happenned", is more important what happens next, we can continue to disagree on just about anything; take a pause before you express your disagreement with an insult.
The majority of what went on over there was dirty talk, a couple of guys kinda bashed each other keyboad vs. keyboard. Maybe if they were to talk, they would find they have more in common than what separates them.

Some attacks were one-sided, very personal. It would take a big man to say "I'm sorry", of course it may well be the attackers are not sorry at all in which case at least the injured parties know exactly who their friends are not.
I know comments have been made about people apologizing to the community at large and I don't feel there is a need for that.

The personal stuff should be resolved, the rest is water under the bridge.What a fantastic post^ Javier. I for one could not have said it better than you have. Very well put! :2thumbs:

teamrope
10-07-2005, 12:49 PM
Not long from the start I could see where the train wreck was headed. Some of it was visible under the surface on this side and shouldn’t have been a surprise. Some of it was not.

Personally I have never had any real beef with anyone on this board. Still don’t. I’ve met a lot of really great people and had a lot of fun. 3 years ago I never thought I would see the day I would plan my vacation time around a car.

I’ll be the first to say once I saw the direction the board was headed I turned into a troll. To Joe Walsh, My apologies. Calling your post lame in the manner I did was way out of line. If you go to your grave holding that against me I won’t blame you. That goes for everyone else as well. Right now I’m as disgusted with myself as much or more than anything else that happened over there.

To those that wanted to be able to voice your opinion without moderation all I have to say is be careful what you wish for.

Now to pick up the pieces. Will things go back to the way they were before? Most of us can forgive, but can we forget? Only time will tell. Some will remain with MM.net, some won’t. It’s up to each and every one of us affected to look inside ourselves and ask the hard questions.

Joe Walsh
10-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Not long from the start I could see where the train wreck was headed. Some of it was visible under the surface on this side and shouldn’t have been a surprise. Some of it was not.

Personally I have never had any real beef with anyone on this board. Still don’t. I’ve met a lot of really great people and had a lot of fun. 3 years ago I never thought I would see the day I would plan my vacation time around a car.

I’ll be the first to say once I saw the direction the board was headed I turned into a troll. To Joe Walsh, My apologies. Calling your post lame in the manner I did was way out of line. If you go to your grave holding that against me I won’t blame you. That goes for everyone else as well. Right now I’m as disgusted with myself as much or more than anything else that happened over there.

Absolutley NO apology necessary....I thought that your post was funny and my response/next post was totally facetious. Nothing to worry about.
I love being able to joke around with fellow members on this site...it makes my day when I read a funny post and get a good belly laugh.

P.S. I'd rather defer that 'grave' thing as long as possible.... :D

FordNut
10-07-2005, 02:58 PM
Will things go back to the way they were before? Most of us can forgive, but can we forget? Only time will tell. Some will remain with MM.net, some won’t. It’s up to each and every one of us affected to look inside ourselves and ask the hard questions.

I say it'll probably go back to very much the same as it was. There were personality clashes before and they will remain. There were differences of opinion between different "clicks" and that will always be the case with a group as large and diverse as ours. Some feelings were hurt and some folks feel like they were setup, but we're all adults and if the DS is the worst thing that has happened to ANY of us I would be surprised.

But this thread seems to be like the "LAST POST" thread and just keeps going and going and going...

teamrope
10-07-2005, 03:09 PM
Absolutley NO apology necessary....I thought that your post was funny and my response/next post was totally facetious. Nothing to worry about.
I love being able to joke around with fellow members on this site...it makes my day when I read a funny post and get a good belly laugh.

P.S. I'd rather defer that 'grave' thing as long as possible.... :D

I'm glad to hear that because that was how it was intended. :)

I did like the B(o)(o)bie thread. Logan made a darn fine pastie IMHO. :D

DEFYANT
10-07-2005, 03:50 PM
I did like the B(o)(o)bie thread. Logan made a darn fine pastie IMHO. :D
Umm, now we know what is OK, maybe we can have another one. W/O the Logan pasties...

:D

2003 MIB
10-07-2005, 05:50 PM
Umm, now we know what is OK, maybe we can have another one. W/O the Logan pasties...

:D
Now THAT is some wisdom! Carry on.:D

Bigdogjim
10-07-2005, 06:43 PM
Not a bad idea Jim.
Your on! Who knows soon you'll be chase'n me arcoss state line :rofl:

OK Chuck when are you in town?

RCSignals
10-07-2005, 09:01 PM
Now all we need is Oprah :)

MI2QWK4U
10-08-2005, 07:09 AM
Just to let the membership know, I only visited the alternate site 2 times, once at its inception and once to watch it shut down. Anything that was said over there I did not want to know about, it is important to not color my moderating by comments made elswhere. I recieved many e-mails about this little experiment as every moderator did, but I want to let you folks know that everyone as of this moment has a clean slate, please don't grab the chalk and mark it up. The choice is yours :up:


Really Dan....I think there are a few members here that may not believe that, I know I don't. I wish it was true, but this lack of sincerity is what will contribute to this site just not being what it was.

Sactown
10-08-2005, 01:20 PM
Arghh!! I always miss the fun stuff!

Big House
10-08-2005, 03:22 PM
Billy G,

Very well said. I was a Darkside poster, mainly for the Boobies (that is not a bad word is it?) but somethings needed to be aired. And if you notice..the air was thinning and it was settling down. I hate to see the darker side go but if it is for the betterment of man kind and this wonderful site, then let the darkside go back to the dark side of he mon from whince it came.

Big House



Here's my take..... Logan and his moderators are under no obligation to explain anything to anyone, and I fully agree that this is NOT a democracy, nor should any online board be a democracy. I was a moderator on a board for a year, and that board wasn't a democracy either. There are things about how this board is run, and about how some of the rules are enforced that I don't particularly agree with. But that doesn't matter, because it isn't my board, and I choose to be here of my own free will. Niether Logan nor any of his moderators are forcing me to stay.


Let me also explain that despite certain things that I don't agree with here, overall this is a great board for Marauder owners, and I've gained a lot of helpful and fantastic knowledge about my Marauder by being a member here. Had it not been for this board, my Marauder would still be a 15 second car rather than a 12 second car like it presently is.

Having explained all of that, I also want to say that I don't believe that this "experiment" proved much of anything. Again, let me make it clear that Logan is under no obligation to any of us to prove anything. He's started up and maintained the most informative board on the internet about Marauders. I'm merely pointing out that this so called "experiment" was anything but objective. It wasn't exactly what you would call a "double blind" study. :)

Right or wrong, all the moderator bashing that took place on that other board would NOT have been there if there really weren't any mods to begin with. Sure there weren't any mods over there (I mean moderators), but since that board wasn't really anything else than an extension of this board, then in essence, what we had over there was merely part of this board. Does that mean that I'm saying that no mods are needed? Not at all. I'm simply pointing out that we started out with some rather strict rules (meaning over here), and then for merely a couple days, we went to entirely the other extreme. So ofcourse that would open the flood gates, and even invite people to lash out.

So the stage for all types of brutal comedian type posts was set. As well as for posts about dissatisfied customers too who were never previously allowed to voice their veiwpoints about certain issues. All of the frustrations and dissappointments of some members that took years to be built up during the lifespan of this board here, were suddenly allowed to be unleashed all at once over at that other board. So ofcourse it was chaotic. How would it be otherwise? And to let such a board exist only for a couple days is not any realistic proof that such a board would be that way always, or that it would continue to get worse and worse had it been allowed to remain on the net.

There would've been a point where people would've gotten certain things out of their system, and where the attempts at humorous posts laced with four letter words would have gotten real old, and therefore would've tapered off atleast to some extent. It wouldn't have completely stopped all together, but it would NOT have remained as it was with the same intensity that it was. So I don't think that this so called "experiment" proved much of anything since it's entire premise wasn't even serious nor realistic. And not having any rules nor mods to enforce them at all is simply the other extreme of what this board is. So we've seen two extremes IMO. Neither one is realistic. However that doesn't change the fact that this is one seriously beneficial board overall to it's members (myself included) and that's what has kept me here.

I've tried to be as honest as possible with this post. No phoney sugar coating, and no disrespect intended. Just my plain opinion and viewpoint. If you don't agree, then that's your perogative to disagree if you so choose.

Big House
10-08-2005, 03:28 PM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: That is what they use to say.


Just don't put all six together in that order. You may go blind.





Agreed

LiLWrink
10-08-2005, 08:49 PM
That is a very old set of tools you have displayed...

You have mail.:beer:

Logan
10-09-2005, 06:04 AM
This thread has run it's course, thanks for the comments both positive and otherwise.

If someone still has something to say, feel free to start a thread new thread in the community or lounge forums.