Question On Warranty

[scareme]

i wanted to add gears and a chip, but would rather not void the warranty. I've been talking with some people and they all said to wait till it's up, but i can't believe nearly everyone here would void there's. If there is a way not to void please help me out.

[Logan]

It doesn't automatically void your warranty. Common sense rules.

Here's a list of things to keep in mind with respect to ANY aftermarket performance modification.

DO remove your chip before taking your car in for service.
DO remove any other VISIBLE performance or mechanical modification where reasonable to do so.
DO remove your battery cable for 15 minutes after taking your chip out prior to service.
DON'T tell your service advisor about your modifications.
DO play the model grocery getter customer when going in for service. (Don't tell your SA that your engine started making knocking sounds after a night of drag racing.)

Above all else:

DO work under the theory that the tech is not going to give a crap what you've done to your car unless it's either obvious or interfering with him doing his job.

That being said:

Gear change. They will never know the gear ratio is changed unless they tear down your rear-end, so why worry about it?

Chip. Follow the above advice. Remove it before going in for any warranty service, reset your computer by unplugging the battery, and for god sake's, don't TELL them about your mods.

Following these simple rules will ensure you never get your warranty voided. I've modified the hell out of the last 4 vehicles and never had any problems.

[scareme]

Logan,

Appreciate the help, had no idea it was that simple. Guess it's time to start shopping! Thanks again.

[Matt Johnson]

Removing the chip is a no-brainer, but what about plugs and/or stat? Do those become an issue as well?

[SaxGuy]

Warranty is an issue that also varies from dealer to dealer. If you are lucky enough to find a mod friendly dealer, then you would be set. Just remember that if you modify the gear, only the rearend would be voided. Your best bet of course is to follow what Logan said, and remember that dealers don't want to pay for problems caused by other peoples parts.

[Mad1]

You should check out the Magnuson-Moss Warranty – Federal Trade Commission Improvement Act of 1975.

It spells out exactly what companies that provide warrenty work are required to do by law ... example: A dealer must prove – not just say – that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before he can deny warranty coverage on that basis.

Check out the Federal Trade Commission's Web site on the subject. Magnuson-Moss Act (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm)

Here's another primer that explains it in more layman's terms.
AutoTruckToys (http://www.autotrucktoys.com/mag_moss.htm)


Happy modding! :)
Mad1

P.S. When the feds return my dough, I'm getting my chips!

[RF Overlord]

Remember, too, that the modification has to also be the proximate CAUSE of the failure (martyo, am I using the right word?). They can't blame a fuel pump failure on your chip, or a camshaft drive chain failure on your thermostat, etc...

[TAF]

And call Marty or Bill (mensrea) if they have any further "questions"...

[martyo]

Just remember, I normally charge NY rates, but members of the club get a courtesy (discount).

Yeah, me giving a discount, yeah, right! Have you seen my list of mods??? Some poor schlep of a client has got to pay for those!!!

[Macon Marauder]

Originally posted by Matt Johnson
Removing the chip is a no-brainer, but what about plugs and/or stat? Do those become an issue as well?

Mine went in the shop yesterday. I only pulled the chip. I'm sure they didn't even notice the plugs. Still haven't installed the stat, though. But I doubt they would notice or care.

[SergntMac]

Just my .02c, k?

We've covered the "mods vs. warranty" topic quite a bit, and I hope I do not open the discussion more. All I wish to do, is add some thought to the good advice already offered above. I suggest that you debate these issues before deciding to mod, and again over what mods to accomplish. There is some risk with mods, but it's not as risky as you may imagine.

Consider first, a "sudden failure" of a major system, such as fuel, or electrical. She's dead on the pavement and it's time to call the flat bed. No chance to undo anything now, eh?

Be prepared to back your decision to mod with logical argument and proof of quality install. Be ready to negotiate, and calmly too. It's not the dealer's money at stake, it's LMs. The dealer wants your business and he shouldn't really care who pays the bill, as long as it gets paid in his shop. If it's something major, and your mods are in question, you may have to agree to some sharing of responsibility. Best to nurture a friendly relationship with your SM, get him to like seeing you drive in. When a waitress does a good job, she gets a good tip, why not the SM? If ever necessary, he may come to negotiate on your side, or, even come to ignore the special aspects of your MM.

Consider second, what's the reason for a visit to the dealer, and how does undoing mods affect that? Pulling the chip is easy, but you're not going to pull a gear, or, a torque converter, eh? Likewise the pulleys, the only mod visible to the naked eye. When you pull the chip without pulling the stat and plugs, the car will run OEM, and I don't see a problem from colder plugs and stat for the short term. But, if a road test is required, speed error may be detected, and you're back to square one anyway. Besides, things electrical last the longest when handled as little as possible. I think the risk of leaving the chip in to get your sub-woofer checked, is as risky as frying it with a static discharge while pulling it.

When you consider all the complications possible, pulling the chip may only work against you. I've been reassured by my SM, that Reinhart's chip is transparent to LM diagnostics. No one will know it's there without crawling under the dash and looking at the ECM. So, when I visit the dealer, I leave the chip in place, turned on, and let the wrench evaluate my complaint under the same conditions I discovered it. May be better to keep quiet, until it's necessary to discuss the problem at hand, and the cure.

You're not going to void the whole warranty on the whole car with a few bolt on mods, but you risk coverage on specific items. My SM told me that once I install the 4:10s, he could rebuild my rear end (if necessary), but only restore the OEM 3:55s. Of course, no two dealers are alike, and this is where you roll dice.

The suggested mods are safe to the overall car, and produce remarkable performance improvements. There has been real time field testing of these mods under a variety of conditions by many of us here, and without a hitch or side affect. Most mods can be argued to also improve emissions and reduce fuel consumption, and what's wrong with that? If the mods are what you want, you have to be willing to take risks. If you need to rely on a full 3/36 bumper to bumper warranty, plan carefully...IMHO.

[jerrym3]

Can someone please answer the following question regarding mods?

If mods make the car run the way it was advertised to run, improve (or at least do not adversely affect) gas mileage, and improve transmission shifting, why doesn't Mercury take a hint and offer a similar setup straight from the factory?

I'm not saying that a perfromance chip and/or 4:10s should be offered on the regular Grand Marqiis, but why not offer them on Mercury's proclaimed "musclecar"?

Maybe if all the car magazines had tested a "mod" Marauder, the car would have received a better initial reception.

just my .02

[RF Overlord]

jerry:

You raise a good point...

MY .02 is that everything Ford (or any other) does is a compromise...if they make a shift firmer, then half the people who buy it will complain, if they make it softer, then the OTHER half will complain...so they try and find a medium. Cost is another factor...hell, they took out the power fuel door release on the 300Bs...the push-button and solenoid must have cost a whopping 5 or 6 whole dollars in the quantity Ford can buy them...

I could go on and on, but don't want to give TAF any MORE reasons to trade me to BON...

or LML, or martyo, or WolfeBros, or prchrman...bastages, all of them...

[Matt Johnson]

That's the question of the year...maybe the millenium. It boggles the noggin that any auto manufacturer would not be able to deliver the optimum performance in their own "performance sedan" out of the chute. How many Euro performance sedans need modifications to make them "run like they should have come from the factory?" You can always improve performance, but to have to put aftermarket parts on a car just to bring it to the level where you'd expect it to be upon delivery is really disappointing.

Having said that, I love the car, am glad I bought it, and can't stay out of it.

For for the price (cheap, IMHO) you can't beat it...eventhough other cars can.

[MAD-3R]

I think sheriff is on the trading block over there...

Naw, they'd never go for it.....

:D

[gonzo50]

SergntMac, Your analysis of the "Mods-vs-Warranty" issue is dead on target. If you have to go thru all the hassles of covering up your mods everytime you go in for service and worrying about if the service Mgr. is going to find it or not than it's best if you stay away from mods until you're comfortable with the fact that if they did find some mods or the mods was the cause of the failure that you would be willing to be responsible for the expense or part of the expense.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by gonzo50
...it's best if you stay away from mods until you're comfortable with the fact that if they did find some mods or the mods was the cause of the failure that you would be willing to be responsible for the expense or part of the expense.

I think you hit the nail on the head, gonzo...like investing in the stock market, you have to assess your own tolerance for risk. I am comfortable that the mods I have done are most likely NOT going to cause a catastrophic failure of anything critical. IF, and I mean IF, something goes wrong, and the dealer can PROVE the mod caused it, well, then I bend over.

Look at it this way: mensrea has arguably the most high modified Marauder on the planet, and it's already been thrashed to the max (see his latest posts). If his car blows up, then I'll think twice about my little chip...besides, most of our mods have been done to all sorts of cars for YEARS, with no ill effects...

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by jerrym3
Can someone please answer the following question regarding mods?

If mods make the car run the way it was advertised to run, improve (or at least do not adversely affect) gas mileage, and improve transmission shifting, why doesn't Mercury take a hint and offer a similar setup straight from the factory?

I'm not saying that a perfromance chip and/or 4:10s should be offered on the regular Grand Marqiis, but why not offer them on Mercury's proclaimed "musclecar"?

Maybe if all the car magazines had tested a "mod" Marauder, the car would have received a better initial reception.

just my .02

Part of the reason is government regulation. Ford wanted to avoid the "penalty" tax, which would have been added to the price of the car.
Plus, they knew Mac would have nothing to do if they provided the car in a "modded" state ;)

[SergntMac]

Originally posted by RCSignals
Plus, they knew Mac would have nothing to do if they provided the car in a "modded" state ;)

ROTFLMAO...Ouch!

Only a man in a skirt can talk about me this way...

[MassMarauder]

DO remove your battery cable for 15 minutes after taking your chip out prior to service.


This is a very informative thread.
Question: Re, the quote above, Why 15 minutes?

[martyo]

I took the approach suggested that I will live with the consequences of my Mods (after I sue the pants off 'em if they try to disclaim coverage). Just out of curiosity though, how do you guys get Dennis's sticker off the ECM if you pull the chip for service? Mine appears to have bonded permanently to the ECM and it has only been installed only a few weeks.

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by martyo
Just out of curiosity though, how do you guys get Dennis's sticker off the ECM if you pull the chip for service? Mine appears to have bonded permanently to the ECM and it has only been installed only a few weeks.

BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA...Dennis now owns your immortal soul...

[MassMarauder]

I didn't use Dennis's tape. I bought a roll of clear tape.

[martyo]

My soul immortal???? Hardly!!

[MAD-3R]

Thats been sold to the Bar for years...

[Logan]

I didn't bother using the tape either.

[jerrym3]

I'm sorry to be so thick, but being a Mercury fan since the late 50's, not putting your best product out the door with job 1 just bugs me, especially when we see how the foreign manufacturers are doing a job on us.

I can't see any sizeable cost difference had Mercury performed the basic mods before the car was offered for sale. (Of course, a SC would be a big cost factor.)

4:10 vs 3:55 should not be a cost issue to Ford; creating a performance chip for an initial 18,000 car run doesn't seem to be a big deal (if it were, how could the independant speed shops do it and still make a profit?), and the market that the Marauder is geared towards would welcome firm, not harsh, shifts.

Nobody with a 4:10 rear is complaining that the MPG dropped dramatically. (I replaced the 3:00 with 3:50s in my 1964 Galaxie with hardly any mileage change; car does tach up quite a bit above 70, though.)

Last, but not least, when the Mercury engineers initially tested these cars, couldn't they determine that a bit more go from a standing start would be icing on the cake?

I can't believe that Mercury built a vehicle with the goal in mind to give the independant speed shops more business.

Just doesn't make sense.

[MAD-3R]

Bean counters and CAFE. A .1 differance in milage can realy make a change in total efficency.