Marauder down but definitely not out!

[TooManyFords]

As it was eluded to yesterday in a couple different threads, it is true that I have a marauder on a trailer in my driveway as I type this. I wanted to post this thread after I have all the pictures, videos and dyno graphs scanned but everyone is probably wondering just what happened!

First, Sutton did an excellent job with the dyno tune on the car. No question about it. The air/fuel was a flat 11.0 across the entire pull when completed and resulted in 471 RWHP. After the base tune was completed, we played with the electric cutouts and the nitrous to see what would happen. When the cutouts were opened up, I gained 6 hp on the top end only and lost about as much torque through 3/4s of the bottom end. But this just one example of what happens on the dyno does not necessarily represent what happens on the track. When tested with a G-Timer, the cutouts were good for a full half second reduction in ET. I have done this test at the track with the blower and got similar results. When we played with a 35 shot of nos on top of the tune, we found it ran pig rich [and why are pigs responsible all the time?] We didn't have time to customize the tune but it was clear that either more NOS or a smaller fuel jet would have corrected this without adjusting the computer. So for now, the NOS is for the bling factor until the new motor is completed.

While the car -was- running after the dyno, it was a pure dream! I can't remember the last time it was so fun accelerating up to 100+ on the toll road to catch up to Mac! Smooth as silk. We sprinted up to Great Lakes Dragaway to meet the rest of the crew and it was a great 2 hour cruise.

The bad news. It was on my first pass too. With stock tires, a new 3500 stall PI and a fresh tune on the car, I knew it was not stay glued till I got firmly ino third. With the OD off and ready, I launch. And I was right. It felt loose for quite a ways and then it planted in third and just started pulling hard! Then, all of a sudden it felt like I hit neutral and I look down and the tach was pegged! I started to let out and then BANG! Oil everywhere and parts were bouncing down the track behind me. Not much else to say, but I'm pretty sure that we'll need an autopsy on both to see what failed and how.

I'll post links to the pictures and videos later this weekend.

Now to rebuild!

John

[Bradley G]

John, sorry our little get together went south for you.

I really enjoyed seeing you at our local track.
Now you got me rethinking the idea of turning up the wick on my car.:confused:

[FordNut]

Wow, bad news. Sorry to hear about that. Sounds like the tranny let go first (maybe input shaft?) then the redline was set high enough to let the engine self destruct. Maybe I should re-think having my tuner raise the redline above the 6200 he has it set at. Good luck on getting it back together soon, better and stronger than it was before!

[snowbird]

Damn. I saw you post another tread with a phrase that spelled bad news but i wasn't shure. I guess now its clearer.

Really sorry for what happened. Wish you the best for the coming weeks, you'll need it. I hope you sort out exacly what happened and why.

Regards, Yvon

[Rider90]

Time to build it better now! :cool:

[AzMarauder]

I'm pretty sure that we'll need an autopsy on both to see what failed and how.

I'll post links to the pictures and videos later this weekend.

Now to rebuild!

John
Man... that is not good... unless of course you were ready to do the rebuild anyway!

I would be very interested in what you see when you tear it down.

Good luck amigo!

[TooManyFords]

I was planning on getting a motor over the winter and do a rebuild for a next Spring swap. I'm just moving the schedule up a bit is all.

I'm going with forged internals and keeping everything identical as possible. The upper motor and all the accessories are just fine, I just need a block, crank, rods, pistons and maybe a head or two. Oh, and a rebuilt tranny.

Now, what I've been toying with is building a 514 with an AOD behind it since it will fit. I'm trying to find out just how much of the onboard electronics will not work if the motor is carburetted and not hooked to it. It would be cool but I'm thinking I'd have to redo all the gauges in the dash for "old school" power.

Don't know just yet so I am still looking for options.

Cheers!

John

[Zack]

Yeah, it royally sucked having to witness Johns misfortune.
Those who have stock motors and have high horsepower #'s, are very very lucky. Although my motor came out of the car running as good as new, I know someone was watching over me when it was stock.
John, anyting you need, just ask. And good luck.

[martyo]

Now, what I've been toying with is building a 514 with an AOD behind it since it will fit. I'm trying to find out just how much of the onboard electronics will not work if the motor is carburetted and not hooked to it. It would be cool but I'm thinking I'd have to redo all the gauges in the dash for "old school" power.


The gauges are less of an issue than some of the other electronics. Come to SSHS5 anyway and see for yourself.

I am pulling for ya to be back on the road soon!

[AzMarauder]

I was planning on getting a motor over the winter and do a rebuild for a next Spring swap. I'm just moving the schedule up a bit is all.

I'm going with forged internals and keeping everything identical as possible. The upper motor and all the accessories are just fine, I just need a block, crank, rods, pistons and maybe a head or two. Oh, and a rebuilt tranny.

Now, what I've been toying with is building a 514 with an AOD behind it since it will fit. I'm trying to find out just how much of the onboard electronics will not work if the motor is carburetted and not hooked to it. It would be cool but I'm thinking I'd have to redo all the gauges in the dash for "old school" power.

Don't know just yet so I am still looking for options.

Cheers!

John
Just my opinion mind you... but I like the creature comforts of the car and modern technology. You should be able to scare up a motor and the parts... I'd redo the 281 with all the trough stuff inside... some hotter cams.... and then boost the little baby HARD !

The beauty of the cars isn't necessarily how fast they can run... it's how fast they run with all the bells and whistles.

Like I used to say about my Cobra when I ran 12.5 @114 at 3100' elevation when and folks asked what I had in it...

"Nothing much.... just my fat azz and 6 cds in the changer... oh, and I didn't have the A/C on! ":D

[Tallboy]

John, I am sorry to hear of the misfortune, but that's racin', huh? I realize I am not close geographically, but If there's any way I can help, drop me a line... :up:

[TooManyFords]

I see karKraft has some 4.6 MM motors on their website in the 2K range. What do I need to make this indestructable? If you've gone down this road already, let me know what you did [parts used etc], who did it for you and about how much $$ ?

I'd hate to reinvent the wheel and all. I'm looking for just the long block build-up with the same compression if possible. I'm happy with the dyno tune and really don't need more than the 471 it dyno'd at.

If there is a build-up thread, post me a link to save typing.

I'll save the 514 project for next year with a 'seasoned' marauder...

Thanks in advance!

john

[Smokie]

John, what can I say, :( Make it better and come back stronger than ever.:burnout:

[FordNut]

I see karKraft has some 4.6 MM motors on their website in the 2K range. What do I need to make this indestructable?
Indestructable? Not possible. Strong enough to last through more abuse than most of us will ever throw at it, quite realistic.


If you've gone down this road already, let me know what you did [parts used etc], who did it for you and about how much $$ ?

Mac did a pretty detailed writeup on his buildup. Not sure where it's at but I'm sure somebody will post a link.


I'd hate to reinvent the wheel and all. I'm looking for just the long block build-up with the same compression if possible. I'm happy with the dyno tune and really don't need more than the 471 it dyno'd at.

My recommendation: If your block is history, get one of the KarKraft aluminum engines. Look into VT Engines for a rotating assembly: Including forged pistons (several choices of brand and c.r.), forged crank, Manley rods, everything already balanced, including rings and bearings at around 2500.00.

Also go ahead and get the billet oil pump gears.

I would drop ever so slightly on the c.r. to maybe 9.8:1 or even 9.5:1

[Eric91Z]

Sorry to hear about the misfortune, but like you said last weekend, if you break it, you will build it better and go from there. I agree, keep the 4.6, build the internals like Mac or Mark and boost that Procharger up. Maybe upgrade the supercharger unit itself and make some power like Marty...

[maraudernkc]

John, things like this should not happen to good people, like yourself. Let me know if there is anything at all I can do for you.

I know you will have the beast back and better than ever.

[HwyCruiser]

John,

Too bad that your engine decided to check out right after the new tune. What is the saying? "Better to have loved and lost..." whatever. I can only imagine the high you felt during an exciting day on the dyno, the bravado to run right out to the track, and the crash after the powertrain gave out during the first trip down the 1320. I know you wouldn't give up the experience, but I bet you wish you could have gotten at least one good timesheet. Way too anticlimactic.

I know I've been very fortunate with my travels to Cedar Falls IA, Springfield MO, and Detroit MI without a backup plan, just letting fate guide my actions. During the past five months, I've logged a dozen dynos, a dozen trips down the track, and nearly six thousand miles on a 450 rwhp motor that has been balancing on the razor's edge. I haven't had more fun with a vehicle in my life. If my engine goes tomorrow, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything either.

Now that I've seen the stark reality of what a twist of luck can deal anyone here, I'm re-assessing my foolhardiness since I'm not really in the position to go through a rebuild at the moment. I've learned too much about how our stock motors and trannies aren't up to the task of laboring over the 400 rwhp range for very long. Sure, you can get lucky for awhile. I sure have been. I'm going to count my blessings and look at bit milder setup in hopes that it stretches the life expectancy of the stock motor and trans. What I'm not going to do is to not enjoy the car.

Sit back and remember how much joy your car gave you. Do your homework and lay a solid plan for resurrecting it. I'm sure your fun has only just begun.

Cheers back at ya buddy.

- JD

[Zack]

Come to SSHS5 anyway and see for yourself.



Marty, I cant understand why you have converted to a F.A.S.T. system to manage you engine electronics.
Please explain.

[martyo]

Marty, I cant understand why you have converted to a F.A.S.T. system to manage you engine electronics.
Please explain.

The F.A.S.T. system allows for a wider range of tuning parameters, which can be done on the fly and without rattling the car to pieces on a dyno. Plus, a lot of data logging can be done at the same time, without the use of a dyno.

Obviously there is more to it than that, but I am at work and don't have the time to do a long write up on it at the moment (I type these posts while I am on conference calls :D).

I know that you are more enamored with the SCT stuff than the guys I work with, but then again that's why there is more than just vanilla ice cream.

N.B.: The above is posted to you without the intention of a flame fest, for which I have no time, patience or stamina right now. If you truly want to have a dialog about this, let me know and I will post up when I have more time.

[Smokie]

I don't want derail John's thread, but I am very interested in the F.A.S.T topic, since I don't know anything about it. If either Zack or Marty or both would like to explain more on the topic I am listening.....maybe a fresh thread.:)

[FordNut]

I don't want derail John's thread, but I am very interested in the F.A.S.T topic, since I don't know anything about it. If either Zack or Marty or both would like to explain more on the topic I am listening.....maybe a fresh thread.:)
I've talked to several tuners about this system, as well as Scott Levine who just changed over to a F.A.S.T. system on his MkVIII. One of the benefits is that it does exactly what you tell it to. The OEM PCM allows you to adjust timing and fuel when it is in Open Loop mode (WOT). Otherwise the PCM is adjusting injectors, fuel pressure, etc for 14.7 AFR and the tuner has no control over it.

[MarauderTJA]

John, I too am sorry to hear about your motor. As we all know in the high performance arena, the risk is always there. The nature of the beast that we love and hate. Can't wait to see how your new motor rebuild comes out.

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

[Paul T. Casey]

It was rather sad, sorry I had the misfortune to see it.

[snowbird]

John,

Since you're in the information gathering mode for your rebuild, you might want to take a look at those forged stroker crank setup that boost the displ. to 5.0 ?

In July 2005 Mustang and Fast Fords article, they compared back to back results on a 2 valves block (4.6 vs 5.0) keeping everything else similar on a bench dyno.

The gains were in the 7.5 - 8.0 % on the HP and TQ curves (30-40 hp/tq range). More interesting were the graphics: consistent power gain across the range for HP. The TQ was more interesting: for example, the 4.6 was equal or over 375 lbs/TQ from 4200 to 5500 rpm = 1300 rpm spread and the 5.0 was equal or over 3500 to 6000 rpm = 2500 rpm spread.

The difference in price is only a couple hundreds $. The drawback if it exist could be that those engines would be weakier on a full tilt supercharged engine like you will probably want to build. This latter part i'm not shure and maybe somebody else on this board could opinion the strenght of a 5.0 stroker block in a supercharged application.

[tmac1337]

John, good luck on your re-building. No doubt it must be hard going through such an experience. Please keep us all informed about what caused the failure be it tranee or possibly the tune.

Those of us keeping our cars long term with blowers are interested in the rebuilding process (compression and internals) that you may come up with.

Keep a positive outlook, your car and will be back badder than ever.

All you need do is ask for any help that any of us can give to you!

[carfixer]

...If my engine goes tomorrow, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything either....


- JD
JD, very well put. I feel the same and sure many of us do too.

John, sorry to hear of your mis-fortune. I'm also interested to learn what happened to the trans. If you need anything, you got my #.

Claude

[RoyLPita]

Time to build it better now! :cool:

What he said^^^^^^^^^^^^.

[stormtroopin']

Sorry for your loss. Can't wait to see what you end up with! That supercharger sounded sweet!

[Dennis Reinhart]

Ron at Fox Lake does a real good job, he has done four engines for me one was for a two valve car, John call me if I can help, as you said the AF was perfect the car ran perfect, in my opinion its just to much on a stock block and rods and pistons, yes there are those running those numbers now on a stock block but to me I just do not care to risk it. I would go with a cast block Manly rods 8.5 to comp Diamond racing pistons, ARP fasteners billet oil pump gears Have Ron do a stage 3 on the heads and I would use 98 Cobra exhaust cams and your intake cams, call me any time if you have any questions.

[Petrograde]

Damn John,.. that really sucks.

on the bright side,.. you can stoke it to a 5.0L now! :burnout:

[Joe Walsh]

Wow! Sorry to hear about your engine's demise...I too have had this happen to me at the drag strip.
Nothing sucks more than having your wounded MM loaded on a flatbed to be transported home. :(
My Marauder sat for ayear before I got her all back together...but it was worth it! :bigcry:


There are three ways that you could go:

1: Forged Cobra crank, forged rods, forged pistons, billet oil pump gears = 281 cid

2: Forged stroker crank, forged stroker rods, forged pistons, billet oil pump gears = 297 cid

3: Forged Cobra crank, forged rods, forged 3.700" pistons* billet oil pump gears = 305 cid
*bored & sleeved to 3.700"

I chose #3 because forged Cobra cranks are plentiful and the 3.700" bore helps to unshroud the 4 valve heads, resulting in better airflow with no other changes to the heads/intake system.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I agree with most of what Joes said I took it for granted and did not mention the Cobra steel crank and you will also have to use a different flex plate, I have never used s stroker kit, and I dont feel the need for it, we have done several high RWHP engines here with no stroker kit in it, I am not saying any thing against them I just do not feel the need for them in the applications we have done here.

[Joe Walsh]

I agree with most of what Joes said I took it for granted and did not mention the Cobra steel crank and you will also have to use a different flex plate, I have never used s stroker kit, and I dont feel the need for it, we have done several high RWHP engines here with no stroker kit in it, I am not saying any thing against them I just do not feel the need for them in the applications we have done here.


Yep, I had to buy an 8 bolt flexplate to match the Cobra crank, so I just specified an 8 bolt 'SFI' rated flex plate for safety at the drags.

[NAVCHAP]

John, it was nice meeting you during MV3, and definitely feel your pain. Hoping it works out for you, please keep us posted. JD, you summed it up nicely.

Very Respectfully, -kjs-

[TooManyFords]

I've located an engine and transmission for about $1500 pulled from a wrecked Marauder (still waiting for the eBay auction to end on the whole car one) and will use that motor for a core and heads etc in case mine is a total loss.

I want to go with the forged 8-bolt crank, flexplate, forged Manley rods and forged pistons. Not sure if there is a choice on compression ratios as I would like to stay relatively close to factory. The reason is that I have a tune that is perfect for the factory setup. I am old school when is comes to blowers and always thought that 10:1 was a tad steep to be pushing lots of PSI down it. I like the idea from Dennis to using 8.5:1 pistons too as that would seem to leave me with all sorts of potential to use all of my boost and maybe a tad more N2O as well later.

If I go with the 8.5:1 pistons, will I really notice it all that much? For reference, I'll be staying with the 3500 PI converter so torque "down low" is not an issue since it never stays "down low" for very long anyway.

Next, I need some names of shops that can do these mods and a phone number to get a quote. I can truck freight the motor where it needs to go, but somewhere in the midwest is preferred as I could deliver and pick up when completed.

And finally, Zack!!! HELP!!! Where or how do I get a bullet-proof tranny? I'll need to make sure I back this up with something that isn't going to go boom right after I get it all back together!

Thanks again everyone for your support and well wishes. I've never been afraid to play with my toys and this isn't the first 289 I've blown up. (it's the second!) The first one had 12.5:1 TRW's with a pair of Holley 600's on an Offenhauser tunnel-ram. Now -that- 289 kicked some serious ass too!

We'll get this Marauder back on the road just as soon as I nail down the who and the where.

Cheers!

john

[MERCDADDY]

Give me a call when you start wrenching....you know I never need much of an excuse to run up North for the weekend!

[TooManyFords]

I finally got some time to scan the dyno chart of the tune...

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/images/dyno-100405.jpg

I was and still am totally satisfied with the tune I got. I am really looking forward to getting the motor pulled and disassembled so I can turn the bare block into a polished coffee table under glass!

John

[MAD-3R]

Time for anouther to join the rebuilt club. :)

I went through VT Competion Engines.

• Eagle H-Beam Connecting Rods
• Custom CP Pistons
• File to fit Piston Rings
• Clevite 77 Main & Rod Bearings
• VT Forged 4340 Stroker Crankshaft
• ARP Main Studs
• ARP Head Studs
• Billet Oil Pump Gears
• High Volume Oil Pump and Pick-up

I have 30,000 HARD miles with many passes on this build, and it's as strong as ever.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I have Ron at Fox Lake do all our engines. Here are the pictures of the latest build up this is a 03 Cobra block Manly Rods Diamond racing pistons ARP fasteners. The heads are fully ported with bronze guides we used 98 Cobra exhaust cams with 01 Lincoln Navigator intake cams it has the 8 rib fluid dampener toped with a Vortech JT Trim and 60 LB injectors SCT B2800 and a KBBAP.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/coolingmodjlt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/dampnerjlt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/frontjt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/rightjlt.jpg

[CBT]

I have Ron at Fox Lake do all our engines. Here are the pictures of the latest build up this is a 03 Cobra block Manly Rods Diamond racing pistons ARP fasteners. The heads are fully ported with bronze guides we used 98 Cobra exhaust cams with 01 Lincoln Navigator intake cams it has the 8 rib fluid dampener toped with a Vortech JT Trim and 60 LB injectors SCT B2800 and a KBBAP.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/coolingmodjlt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/dampnerjlt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/frontjt.jpg

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/uploads/46/rightjlt.jpg Nice! Can I have it?:rolleyes:

[BillyGman]

Sorry to hear about your engine John. That really stinks. Good luck in the rebuilding stages.

[TooManyFords]

Anyone hear of these guys?


http://www.lethalperformance.com/pages-productinfo/category-19_369_1148/product-5721/03-04-mustang-mach-1-engine-shortblocks-modular-mustang-racing-400600-mmr-46l-street-mod-600-shortblock.html


This sounds like a good $2K~ solution to my problem!

John

[MarauderTJA]

Anyone hear of these guys?


http://www.lethalperformance.com/pages-productinfo/category-19_369_1148/product-5721/03-04-mustang-mach-1-engine-shortblocks-modular-mustang-racing-400600-mmr-46l-street-mod-600-shortblock.html


This sounds like a good $2K~ solution to my problem!

John
Yes I have read about them in the Mustang mags. The price is right John. And it has all the necessary components necessary to produced a high horsepower, solid Marauder engine....hummmm, maybe I may have to get one too:rolleyes:

[BillyGman]

Anyone hear of these guys?


http://www.lethalperformance.com/pages-productinfo/category-19_369_1148/product-5721/03-04-mustang-mach-1-engine-shortblocks-modular-mustang-racing-400600-mmr-46l-street-mod-600-shortblock.html


This sounds like a good $2K~ solution to my problem!

JohnJohn, the only thing I wonder about concerning that engine, is that it has a cast crankshaft.

[MarauderTJA]

John, the only thing I wonder about concerning that engine, is that it has a cast crankshaft.
John, Billy is right. I have not heard of a Ford Racing Cast crankshaft. Although it is rated (so they say) at 600 HP. I will make a couple of phone calls and let you know.

[TooManyFords]

Yes, the cast crank was an issue. I've settled on this one:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/pages-productinfo/category-19_369_1148/product-5727/03-04-mustang-mach-1-engine-shortblocks-modular-mustang-racing-400900-mmr-46l-street-mod-900-shortblock.html?zenid=44cda848 ed5e2fde469a99c3849837d5

An an ArtCarr transmission for 2K and then I get Claude to send me kits for all the mods for the line lock and I'll be all set.

John

[BillyGman]

Yes, the cast crank was an issue. I've settled on this one:

http://www.lethalperformance.com/pages-productinfo/category-19_369_1148/product-5727/03-04-mustang-mach-1-engine-shortblocks-modular-mustang-racing-400900-mmr-46l-street-mod-900-shortblock.html?zenid=44cda848 ed5e2fde469a99c3849837d5

An an ArtCarr transmission for 2K and then I get Claude to send me kits for all the mods for the line lock and I'll be all set.

JohnThat sounds better, and for under $3K, that's a good deal. BTW, is that a distributor I see in that pic that's near the driver's side cylinder head? :confused:

[TooManyFords]

I'm sure it's just for show on the pictures. hehehehe. Doesn't look like the turbo goes into the intake either!

I just want the short block which is all they are selling. The crank trigger etc from mine should bolt on with my heads and so on. That is, provided my heads were not damaged as well. No telling till I get it pulled and start the science class dissection.

I still haven't decided on compression ratio yet. I am leaning on leaving it factory but I want to see what those who have lowered theirs say.

The parameters for the final product are to be right at where it was, RWHP wise, when it was dynoed without the NOS. I will want to put a 100 shot on top of it -after- it matches, no more.

If 9.5:1 gets me where I want, fine. I've always thought that 10.1:1 was a bit steep to supercharge safely, but it always comes down to just how much boost we are talking about. That has been proven.

Cheers!

John

[SergntMac]

John, Billy is right. I have not heard of a Ford Racing Cast crankshaft. Although it is rated (so they say) at 600 HP. I will make a couple of phone calls and let you know.Ford Racing cast crank, P/N M-6303-C46, for Romeo blocks, 6 bolt. $159.00

[maraudernkc]

John, I bought my forged motor direct from Modular Mustang Racing and had no problems. My compression ratio was 9 to 1 and I was not happy with the results. IMO I would not go lower than 9.5 to 1 on such a small displacement motor and it is in a heavy car. If you run 9 to 1 in your compression range than you will need 15 PSI to get to around 500RWP and than you have a major problem with the 6 rib belt set up. It will slip. I know first hand.

Good luck in whatever route you decide to take.




I'm sure it's just for show on the pictures. hehehehe. Doesn't look like the turbo goes into the intake either!

I just want the short block which is all they are selling. The crank trigger etc from mine should bolt on with my heads and so on. That is, provided my heads were not damaged as well. No telling till I get it pulled and start the science class dissection.

I still haven't decided on compression ratio yet. I am leaning on leaving it factory but I want to see what those who have lowered theirs say.

The parameters for the final product are to be right at where it was, RWHP wise, when it was dynoed without the NOS. I will want to put a 100 shot on top of it -after- it matches, no more.

If 9.5:1 gets me where I want, fine. I've always thought that 10.1:1 was a bit steep to supercharge safely, but it always comes down to just how much boost we are talking about. That has been proven.

Cheers!

John

[tmac1337]

IMO I would not go lower than 9.5 to 1 on such a small displacement motor and it is in a heavy car. If you run 9 to 1 in your compression range than you will need 15 PSI to get to around 500RWP and than you have a major problem with the 6 rib belt set up. It will slip. I know first hand.


That sounds like excellent advice. It does not appear that playing too much, or at all with the compression ratio on the MM has had the intended favorable results.

Regardless, the options you keep looking at John are good. I am hoping along with you your car when it is done meets or exceeds your best expectations. :2thumbs:

[TooManyFords]

Update:

After doing a lot of research and conversing with fellow members, I've settled on the following:

* Cast iron Cobra block, new over-the-counter.
* Forged Cobra 8-bolt crank
* Forged Cobra rods
* Forged CP Pistons at 10:1
* Factory heads with custom porting
* Custom Comp Cam cams to match heads from flow bench
* Same ProCharger P1SC at same 13psi boost.
* Final dyno tune to add 100 shot of N2O (because it will now take it)

I'm just starting to get pricing and such together, and ETA on completing is still unknown as the builder is currently working on other 4.6 projects. It may be 30-60 days before I even get in. I'd like to see a January 21st completion date because it's my birthday. As I get more info I'll pass it along.

Cheers!

John

[Eric91Z]

Looking forward to updates and can't wait until it is done. I definitely want a ride in it next year!!!!

[HwyCruiser]

Looks like the plan is coming together. :beer:

I gotta get to collecting more cans because I want one of those!

[MarauderTJA]

I finally got some time to scan the dyno chart of the tune...

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/images/dyno-100405.jpg

I was and still am totally satisfied with the tune I got. I am really looking forward to getting the motor pulled and disassembled so I can turn the bare block into a polished coffee table under glass!

John

John your dyno chart looks extremely similar to the tune I had with Scott Beer at Diablosport. Just a few HP & Tq differences. Anyway, I will be watching closely your engine build and probably PMing you often once I get started on my engine build this early spring. Although it was tragic on the engine loss, your new found power will be worth the expense.:beer:

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

[Dennis Reinhart]

John we have a fully built set of Fox Lake heads here these have bronze guides fully massaged heads titanium retainers and they have a good cam set up call me if I can help

[maraudernkc]

John, I think you have made a wise decsion in leaving your compression near stock. Like I said before, I was not happy with my choice of lowering my compression for everyday street driving.

Good luck in your rebuild process.:)

[TooManyFords]

Knight: "We must build a large catapult and hurl the largest of projectiles at the sloth."
King: "What sort of projectile do you recommend?"
Knight: "This... (large bag of riches hits the table)"
King: "Are you suggesting we throw money at the problem?!?"
Knight: "Precisely.."

I love that IBM commercial. So I finally put my money where my sloth is.

Update: 11/23/05
I've been doing research for 6 weeks now in exactly what to get to replace the "window" block in my car. Let me tell you, if you talk to 6 different people you will get six different answers. The important thing is that of the knowledgeable people I consulted, none of them are wrong. When building a motor, there are many schools of thought and no one of them is right or wrong. I'm prefacing this update this way so that there will be no hard feelings with everyone that has chimed in. I'm going to build this motor the way I think it should be done and will report on progress and performance numbers when complete.

Because I was able to actually get it on a dyno -before- airing out the crankcase, I know how it worked and felt. I'm not going to build an identical 4.6 so this really won't be an apples to apples comparison. Well, in a way it is but I'm putting a lot of non-stock parts back in too.

OK, enough ego stroking, here's what the bag of riches bought today:

MMR Street Mod 900 short block; New cast iron Romeo Cobra block, Kellogg Forged Cobra crank, Forged Manley rods, Forged Manley 9:1 pistons that will be coated, ARP Main and Head studs, Cometic head gaskets and a set of DR Fox Lake heads. Dennis is putting together a list of ancillary parts such as 60lb injectors, new fuel rails, twin focus fuel pumps and I'll be getting 8-AN line from tank to engine with a BAP. I'm sure I left a few parts out here and there but I'll be making an exact list as the parts arrive and the build proceeds.

I'll be looking to go to a smaller pulley than the 3.6 I now run so I'll be pushing the boost up to around 16psi on the ProCharger. After a lengthy discussion with Dennis on the heads, I am confident that the cams in them in addition with 3 more PSI will more than make up for the drop in compression to 9:1. Again, when finished I'll have another dyno session done so we can see if my plan comes together or not. My goal is to complete this by my birthday in January and then put it back away for the rest of the winter. (Hey, its still a Marauder!)

I'm sure that I will be tapping a few of you on the shoulder as I progress through this for more advise and suggestions. Just don't be offended if I don't use all of them from all of you.

Again, I appreciate all the time and effort everyone has offered while digging for my solution.

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving, so go eat some Turkey!!

John

[MarauderTJA]

John, looks like you have been doing your research;). In my opinion you have selected excellent choices overall with your components. I am working on my new engine research/project which will be somewhat different than yours. One thing I am going to do is upgrade to a D1SC. You have a year and you can trade your P1SC in for an additional $900. for the upgrade. Not to dip into your bag of $$$, but there are considable performance increases with blower design and boost levels available. Have you looked into it or have you decided to keep the P1SC ?

Either way the motor will be a monster. :eek: I will be closely following your project and I am confident that you will be extremely satisfied with the results. Can't wait my friend to see the beast back on the track next year.:banana2:

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida.

[FordNut]

John,
Any info on why the tranny dropped out of gear and let the engine over-rev?

I agree that you're putting together a great setup, though it's not exactly the way I'm going with my buildup. Ahh, variety... it's great isn't it?

[TooManyFords]

Diversity is what it's all about. I'm not exactly breaking new ground here folks. Now that I've loaded the catapult, I want these parts -yesterday-!

I am considering sending the finished block somewhere [as yet to be determined] for final assembly as I want to make sure the final assembly is done correctly. Wherever this is, I'd get a friend to trailer the MM there for final install as well.

OK fellow Knights of the S/C Round Table, here's the first tap on the shoulder:

Where would be a good place to send these parts for final assembly and installation? I'm a good wrench myself, but I've never done a mod motor before so I don't want to risk this one on a stupid learning curve mistake.
Final assembly and installation does not have to be at the same place, and if it comes down to it, I can do an R&R myself and a couple friends.

Tom: Because I hope to have this all together and running way before my year is up, I may look at jumping to the D1SC. Is it physically bigger than my P1SC?

Nut: No, I haven't pulled anything yet. That will start this weekend and I'll update the thread just as soon as I get everything out of the car. I'm really hoping that the tranny is OK and that when it all came unglued that it was just one of those "I could have swore this is what happened" kind of things. I'll know soon enough.

Cheers

John

[SergntMac]

OK fellow Knights of the S/C Round Table, here's the first tap on the shoulder:

Where would be a good place to send these parts for final assembly and installation? I'm a good wrench myself, but I've never done a mod motor before so I don't want to risk this one on a stupid learning curve mistake. Knowing your talent and approach to hot rodding/rebuilding your other cars, I'd say do the assembly yourself. As much as I have learned about the mod motor, it's not any different than a typical engine build. I am sure that between now and then, you can refresh your skill.

[Zack]

Scrap the Marauder timing cover in favor of a 98 Cobra cover.
You WILL need to convert to 8-rib. Order an Innovators West dampener. They make them Standard, 6% and 10% overdriven so the blower spins faster. I recently purchased the 6% model because no modification to the timing cover is necessary.
Glad you made up your mind.

[TooManyFords]

Knowing your talent and approach to hot rodding/rebuilding your other cars, I'd say do the assembly yourself. As much as I have learned about the mod motor, it's not any different than a typical engine build. I am sure that between now and then, you can refresh your skill.
I have been reading up on this. I picked up a back issue of MM&FF that had a how-to for changing the cams on a DOHC. I can always practice on my motor after I pull it out.

Now, speaking of the cams, chains and tensioners, I have heard that it is advisable to replace the chains and tensioners everytime the cams are swapped. My motor has 45000 or so miles so I am thinking this should be on my list as well. Any comments either way?

John

[TooManyFords]

Scrap the Marauder timing cover in favor of a 98 Cobra cover.
You WILL need to convert to 8-rib. Order an Innovators West dampener. They make them Standard, 6% and 10% overdriven so the blower spins faster. I recently purchased the 6% model because no modification to the timing cover is necessary.
Glad you made up your mind.

Thanks Zack. When switching to the Cobra cover, I assume all the same mount points exist as on the Marauder. So what exactly makes the cover the preferred swap? Does it have better Idlers? Does using an 8-rib setup require this cover?

Next, is there an 8-rib kit by somebody that has all the correct replacement wheels? I know we've discussed the 8-rib advantages and I'm all for this upgrade.

Keep the good ideas coming!

John

[FordNut]

Thanks Zack. When switching to the Cobra cover, I assume all the same mount points exist as on the Marauder. So what exactly makes the cover the preferred swap? Does it have better Idlers? Does using an 8-rib setup require this cover?

Next, is there an 8-rib kit by somebody that has all the correct replacement wheels? I know we've discussed the 8-rib advantages and I'm all for this upgrade.

Keep the good ideas coming!

John
Lots of parts and/or kits out there for 8 rib conversion with the old cover. PITA with the new cover.

The tensioner design is totally different as well as belt length.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I would use the 98 Cobra timing cover, and check and see if the procharger SC mount is the same for a 98 as a 01 Cobra, if not go with the 98, it is different for the Vortech SC so we went with a 98 mount on the last project we did.

[TooManyFords]

Well, then I've got to get with Greg to see if the FIT ProCharger mounting bracket will line up with the Cobra covers. If not, then it pretty much is a moot point and I'll be sticking with my factory cover and seeing what is available for an 8-rib conversion later.

It's not the end of the world if I have to stay with my factory cover. Adding 2-3 more psi and maybe the belt won't slip allowing me to stay with the 6-rib setup.

To be honest, if I need to change the ProCharger mounting brackets, I am going to have one made that mounts it backwards on the drivers side so that the belt is in front and then switch to a cog drive system. I've seen some pictures of this setup in one of the mod motor mags and it looks trick!

Thanks and keep the ideas coming!

John

[Zack]

Put a Trilogy on it if you want to make some real power John. :D

[Zack]

Oh Im gonna catch hell for that!
But if i didnt mouth off once in a while, everyone would get bored.

[FordNut]

Well, then I've got to get with Greg to see if the FIT ProCharger mounting bracket will line up with the Cobra covers. If not, then it pretty much is a moot point and I'll be sticking with my factory cover and seeing what is available for an 8-rib conversion later.

It's not the end of the world if I have to stay with my factory cover. Adding 2-3 more psi and maybe the belt won't slip allowing me to stay with the 6-rib setup.

To be honest, if I need to change the ProCharger mounting brackets, I am going to have one made that mounts it backwards on the drivers side so that the belt is in front and then switch to a cog drive system. I've seen some pictures of this setup in one of the mod motor mags and it looks trick!

Thanks and keep the ideas coming!

John
Yep, the bracket is different, it costs about $150. And shimming is required for clearance to fit the 8-rib belt. If you have to stick with the 6-rib you can use a pulley from Reichard (sp?) Racing. It has grooves in it to reduce slippage.

[SergntMac]

If you have to stick with the 6-rib you can use a pulley from Reichard (sp?) Racing. It has grooves in it to reduce slippage. Good suggestion, Brian, these are great pulleys, and solved my slip issues.

http://www.reichardracing.com/

[martyo]

If you have to stick with the 6-rib you can use a pulley from Reichard (sp?) Racing. It has grooves in it to reduce slippage.

Wheher 6 or 8 rib, those guys will fix you right up. The Reichard pullies are a necessary addition.

[TooManyFords]

Oh Im gonna catch hell for that!
But if i didnt mouth off once in a while, everyone would get bored.

:laugh:

John

[TooManyFords]

Good suggestion, Brian, these are great pulleys, and solved my slip issues.

http://www.reichardracing.com/

These guys are on my Monday call list. Question, do I just need the custom pulley for the ProCharger and the crank or do I have to get all of them at the same time? Regardless, I'll be calling them and let everyone know what I find.

Thanks Mac.

John

[MarauderTJA]

Put a Trilogy on it if you want to make some real power John. :D

Bad, bad, bad Zack....:eek: :eek: Paaaleeeeze...do not :lol: start

[MarauderTJA]

[quote

I may look at jumping to the D1SC. Is it physically bigger than my P1SC?
[/quote]

I do not believe there is a size difference. Is there Brian?

[MarauderTJA]

These guys are on my Monday call list. Question, do I just need the custom pulley for the ProCharger and the crank or do I have to get all of them at the same time? Regardless, I'll be calling them and let everyone know what I find.

Thanks Mac.

John

John, please keep a record of all your research and information you locate from the guys here and elsewhere. I would sincerely appreciate it. There is a lot of work that goes into a project like this. Mac and Zack both have been there. You are there now, I heading there soon. :beer:

[FordNut]

I do not believe there is a size difference. Is there Brian?
Pretty sure they're the same.

[martyo]

I am going to have one made that mounts it backwards on the drivers side so that the belt is in front and then switch to a cog drive system. I've seen some pictures of this setup in one of the mod motor mags and it looks trick!


I spent some time exploring a cog -- there is a lot of engineering to be done. You either need a second belt which creates clearance problems or you need to think of cog pulleys for the power steering and alternator. Think about it.

[TooManyFords]

Update 2006 Dept:
I'm now in the home stretch and MMR will have the motor finished week and tentative delivery late next week. I'm having it sent to Wheelers Autobody where I'm doing programming for a couple reasons;

1. They have semi docks to make unloading cake and
2. We're going to paint everything in Wheelers paint booth!

2 has me really excited! I've ordered yet more parts for the new motor. Valve covers (unpainted), Front cover and tensioner and a new oil pan but I'm now in need of an Upper and Lower intake from someone who has done a Trilogy install. Why?

Originally, I was going to have the valve covers, front cover and intakes anodized to match my Zex Nitrous kit to keep a theme going. I did a lot of reading and studying anodizing and even found home kits. Turns out it is relatively simple to setup and do. Unfortunately, everything that bolts to the motor is not the right type of aluminum to get the job done.

Enter Wheelers paint guru Chris. He showed me this new line of paints from Alsa called MirraChrome. [link here (http://www.alsacorp.com/paints.htm)] Using MirraChrome and a blend of their Candy Concentrates we will be able to make all the parts look anodized, but better.

We're going to put the motor on my motor stand and warm it up in their paint booth for a couple days and then begin. First up is a professional tape job to keep paint out of the engine internals. Then he's going to lay down a high-temp gloss single-stage black to the iron block. Then we buff it and apply the MirraChrome. Finally the topcoat clear (many coats) and WOW!

MirraChrome is heat tolerant when the base and topcoats are applied correctly so it should maintain this appearance for many happy (s)miles.

We'll do the pan, covers and intakes with the same process as well as all the S/C tubes in a second pass group once the motor is complete and out of the booth. In fact, this paint can be applied to plastic as well so many under hood components will also get the treatment. In goes plastic and out comes something that looks like it is chromed tinted metal.

As we prep and paint, I'll be sure to have the camera and camcorder running to show how this comes out.

I AM STOKED!!!

john

[Rider90]

Something just knocked the underside of my desk :dunno:

Congrats John, Looking forward to pics :D

[Tallboy]

One lower intake on the way!:beer:

PM me your address...

[TooManyFords]

Address is:

John Friel
1662 Oakwood Dr.
Waterloo, IA 50703.

Let me know what shipping is and I'll PayPal you!

Cheers!

john

[TooManyFords]

Oops! That was supposed to be a PM...

But the same goes for whoever has an upper!

Thanks again Chuck. ;)

John

[Tallboy]

Address is:

John Friel
1662 Oakwood Dr.
Waterloo, IA 50703.

Let me know what shipping is and I'll PayPal you!

Cheers!

john

It's in the mail today.

The price of shipping will be one ice-cold Bud Light when we meet face-to-face.

[Tallboy]

Oops! That was supposed to be a PM...

But the same goes for whoever has an upper!

Thanks again Claude. ;)

John

No problem.

But I'd really prefer it if you called me Chuck...:)

[TooManyFords]

Too excited today Chuck!!

(Sheepish grin!)

[TooManyFords]

It's in the mail today.

The price of shipping will be one ice-cold Bud Light when we meet face-to-face.

Done. Maybe we will cross paths at Sebring then?

Cheers!

john

[Tallboy]

Done. Maybe we will cross paths at Sebring then?

Cheers!

john

I'll be at Sebring-see you there!!!:beer:

[TooManyFords]

I am so excited!

The motor from MMR just arrived on the shipping dock here at Wheelers. I have to go get my engine stand this afternoon and some band cutters to free it from the pallet.

I'll have pictures and such tomorrow.

Cheers!

john

[martyo]

I am so excited!

The motor from MMR just arrived on the shipping dock here at Wheelers. I have to go get my engine stand this afternoon and some band cutters to free it from the pallet.

I'll have pictures and such tomorrow.

Cheers!

john


Cool. Post pictures and specs!

[Hotrauder]

Go John, Go.:banana2: Dennis

[TooManyFords]

The new motor is on the engine stand waiting for the oil pan and the special MirraChrome painting of the covers etc. I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Going through MM withdrawl!


I still need a few more parts to complete this project. If you have a line on a company (and/or URL) and can post, please do. If you feel more comfortable PM'ing, that works too.

Parts:

1. 8-bolt flex plate for cobra crank to our automatics
2. Chrome or polished Alternator
3. Chrome or polished pulley set for all accessories and tensioner
4. SFI damper that supports lower pulley. needs to supports large Cog drive for 3.5" Gilmer belt

Only #1 is an absolute requirement to get it running, but since it is on the engine stand it only makes sense to get the rest of the bling done now.

Any and all help finding these are MUCH APPRECIATED!

Thanks gang.

John

[STLR FN]

John,
#1 Try a flexplate out of a Lightning. IIRC they are a Windsor motor and use an 8 bolt crank.

#2 Try here http://www.pa-performance.com for your polished/chromed alternator.

#3 Try March Performance for the pulleys.

#4 At a loss on this one.
I still need a few more parts to complete this project. If you have a line on a company (and/or URL) and can post, please do. If you feel more comfortable PM'ing, that works too.

Parts:

1. 8-bolt flex plate for cobra crank to our automatics
2. Chrome or polished Alternator
3. Chrome or polished pulley set for all accessories and tensioner
4. SFI damper that supports lower pulley. needs to supports large Cog drive for 3.5" Gilmer belt

Only #1 is an absolute requirement to get it running, but since it is on the engine stand it only makes sense to get the rest of the bling done now.

Any and all help finding these are MUCH APPRECIATED!

Thanks gang.

John

[TooManyFords]

Thanks for the input on the missing components...

I've purchased the Ford Racing flex plate from Summit. PA-Performance worked with me after sending them some pictures and I'm getting the G4 Alternator in Gloss Black powdercoat. While at Summit I also purchased the Hurst Roll Control kit and will be tapping into my green OD button per CarFixer's instructions.

The pulleys I found on BilletFlow's web site. I have to call them Monday to get the specs for which ones I need, but will be getting them in Gloss Black as well. Link Here (http://www.billetflow.com/IdlerBracket.htm)to see them.

Also, just an FYI, I've updated my Engine Rebuild 2006 (http://john.frieltek.com/TooManyFords/Marauder/Engine2006/default.asp) website. Pay particular attention to 02/06/06.. Check it out!

Cheers!

John

[TooManyFords]

I am way too excitied! Tomorrow my car goes in to have the motor swapped out. Eric tells me I'll be driving it Saturday.

I'll finally have pictures of the damage then and will get them posted on the side. Boy, I was going through marauder withdrawl big time!

I'll get lots of pics as we do the swap.

Cheers!

john

[Rider90]

Congrats John!! I'm picking up my supercharger this weekend, looks like this weekend oughta be fun for both of us.

[HwyCruiser]

So when's the coming out party??!!

[TooManyFords]

:D Saturday I'll probably spend ALL DAY in it. We have some "bonding" we need to get through.

:eek: Well, after I photograph the GRENADE BLOCK anyway and promise my MM I will never, never, ever do that again...

;) Cheers!

John

[TooManyFords]

PS : Ordered a new license plate for the car...

----:fire:----:fire:----:fire:----:fire:----

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/images/purevil.jpg

----:fire:----:fire:----:fire:----:fire:----

Cheers!

john

[MarauderTJA]

Congrats John:D . I bet you cannot wait to take the monster for a drive. Just don't let something :banned: by the lower part of the steering wheel get in the way when you tromp it :beer: .