New COP coilpacks available

[FordNut]

I wonder if these are any good...

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...t=coil%20packs

[Mike M]

The coil packs on our Marauders are very good, in fact they are over kill. They have plenty of reserve if ever needed. If it takes 20k volts to fire off a plug in a pressurized cylinder but the the stock coil has enough reserve to put out 50k for short burst then buying a coil that advertises more voltage really doesn't make any sense.

[metroplex]

http://www.visteon.com/products/automotive/coil_on_plug_spec.shtml

About 35kV.

[SergntMac]

The coil packs on our Marauders are very good, in fact they are over kill. They have plenty of reserve if ever needed. If it takes 20k volts to fire off a plug in a pressurized cylinder but the the stock coil has enough reserve to put out 50k for short burst then buying a coil that advertises more voltage really doesn't make any sense.

It's not a "coil on plug" upgrade, rather an improvement to what used to be called a spark plug wire, and I am sure you understand the importance of a healthy spark plug wire. Here's a pic of what come in the box, there are more pics in my gallery.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9985&cat=500&page=1

The OEM offering (IMHO) is very similar to a spring from a ball point pen. The Granatelli kit is a section of braided wire with a solid core and sturdy fasteners at each end. The OEM coil is used, but you get new (and genuine) FMC boots.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=9987&cat=500&page=1

Install time is just a few minutes less than changing spark plugs. Remove the coil pack assembly, and remove the boot from the coil pack. There's a possibility of damage to the OEM boot due to assembly adhesives, but this is why you get new boots, so, change them. Once the boot is off, remove the OEM wire and notice how flimsy it is in removal. Most likely you'll destroy it when pulling it off. Twist it counter-clockwise while gently pulling, it should come off easier. Install the upgrade connector and restore a fresh boot. Connecting it to the spark plug can be a tad frustrating, a bit of hunting, but once it clicks into place, you'll know it. BTW, no radio resistance noted.

The performance here, is in a "zero ohm" resistance to the power of the coil pack. Whether it be 50 volts, or 500 volts, the OEM wire has built in resistance to the flow of this power, and the spark suffers loss. Again, this is the same situation as it is with conventional spark plug wires, if we had them.

Is it worth it? Can I point to any specific gauge or chart and say "look here"? No. But, most of us should understand from our collective experience, that a bad spark plug wire can raise hell, and hide itself very well.

I have done some testing at the race track, but it doesn't look like I'll get time to do the live data logging on a dyno that I had planned. At the track, I was able to do a number of passes where my MM was in relatively similar condition, i.e. street tires, street tune, street fuel, and so on. But these passes occured on different days, and are not "back to back". My performance improved from 12.4x through 12.3x and down to 12.218/113.02 MPH.

Is this all from this mod? No. But, I believe this mod has it's bang for the buck, and if you have ever had any spark plug wire mysteries, here's the solution.

BTW, our friend Wes Chain at Innovative Interceptors has these kits in stock, please patronize an MM.Net sponsor?

[metroplex]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[martyo]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Then what's the point of this site?

[FordNut]

It's not a "coil on plug" upgrade, rather an improvement to what used to be called a spark plug wire

Actually the whole assembly is available now instead of just the "plug wire" part. And Granatelli claims the coils have higher output than the OEM ones in addition to the improved connections which are already attached so it's plug-and-play, no assembly required.

[mpearce]

Granatelli claims the coils have higher output than the OEM ones in addition to the improved connections
What is the advantage to "higher output?" Does more electricity flow? Will this make your car more efficient? Or will it make your car faster? I don't know much about ignition upgrades, and would like to learn.

-Mat

[metroplex]

The coil's primary side sees about 11V-15V DC. The secondary is supposed to be rated around 33kV - 35kV.

I suppose you could get a different coil pack re-wound/re-designed for higher secondary voltage (i.e. 50kV-100kV) but you'll most likely detect zero difference in performance because you don't need that extra spark and it isn't going to give you more power.

They used to sell a device that attaches to your coil packs to boost the spark. It does jack schitt to the power output. They used to say it really helps with supercharged applications where the spark isn't "hot enough", and that may be true but a difference of 0.1 seconds on the 1/4 ET at two different dates is not significant enough of a difference, and I know you stated this yourself.

I would pass on the Granatelli stuff unless you need new coils to replace your shorted coils.

[FordNut]

What is the advantage to "higher output?" Does more electricity flow? Will this make your car more efficient? Or will it make your car faster? I don't know much about ignition upgrades, and would like to learn.

-Mat
Theoretically the higher voltage would make a spark in conditions where the lower voltage would not, such as a supercharged engine.

[Marauder2005]

The coil's primary side sees about 11V-15V DC. The secondary is supposed to be rated around 33kV - 35kV.

I suppose you could get a different coil pack re-wound/re-designed for higher secondary voltage (i.e. 50kV-100kV) but you'll most likely detect zero difference in performance because you don't need that extra spark and it isn't going to give you more power.

They used to sell a device that attaches to your coil packs to boost the spark. It does jack schitt to the power output. They used to say it really helps with supercharged applications where the spark isn't "hot enough", and that may be true but a difference of 0.1 seconds on the 1/4 ET at two different dates is not significant enough of a difference, and I know you stated this yourself.

I would pass on the Granatelli stuff unless you need new coils to replace your shorted coils.

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[RCSignals]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Such irony.

Can you tell us what you didn't replace on your CV?

[metroplex]

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</td><td colspan="4" valign="top"><!-- InstanceBeginEditable name="description" -->Blowhard feels the need to present his credentials before entering the fray - even if they are irrelevant to the discussion. For example, in a movie forum conflict he might attempt to settle the matter by saying, "As a Ph. D. candidate in particle physics I believe I can say with some authority that the 'Beavis and Butthead' movie represents the emergence of a new cultural paradigm." Huh?



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While I do have a sense of humor, that description does not apply anywhere in this thread. I did not present my credentials nor did I add anything not related to the discussion. What do you think comes out of the COP packs? Magical fairies that start up your spark plugs with spark plug juice? :nono:

[metroplex]

Theoretically the higher voltage would make a spark in conditions where the lower voltage would not, such as a supercharged engine. If that were the case, Trilogy marauders or the AED Panthers would be stalling left and right since they use the STOCK OEM Visteon COPs. If the stock COPs were reducing the spark voltage that much, the wires leading from the secondary to the center electrode would eventually melt away.

Rocketcouch has a centrifugal blower on a 92 Vic and he ran the booster pack (i cannot recall the name of the product, its also some cockamamie doohickey that offers more voltage in the spark). He did not observe any significant increase in horsepower on the dyno. This product is a running joke on Corral and Modular Depot IIRC. :help:

(I'm presenting my credentials NOW but its relevant): While as an automotive EE I do admire Granatelli's wire setup (nice solid core, braided shielding, choke(s), etc...) I don't think its absolutely necessary because the OEMs would have figured out the cheapest but most effective way to get enough spark without interfering with other electronics (EMI/RFI). If your current COPs are dead or dying (shorted out because you decided to WASH YOUR ENGINE!!!!) it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch to these. Otherwise, ask how many 11-12 second Stangs are running OE COPs. You should find many of them still use them without problems.

[FordNut]

If that were the case, Trilogy marauders or the AED Panthers would be stalling left and right since they use the STOCK OEM Visteon COPs. If the stock COPs were reducing the spark voltage that much, the wires leading from the secondary to the center electrode would eventually melt away..
Hey, the guy asked what the benefit was and I gave him an answer, notice I said "theoretically". However, lots of supercharged cars experience something sometimes referred to as "spark blowout" at high boost levels supposedly because it's hard to generate a spark in the high cylinder pressures. It sounds like they start cutting out at high rpms. The spark plug gaps are usually closed down to compensate, but I don't see why a higher voltage wouldn't help.

(I'm presenting my credentials NOW but its relevant):
From the same guy that told me my car would be dead on the side of the road if I put an electric water pump on it. Now 2 years and 50k miles later, it's still going strong.

[metroplex]

Hey, the guy asked what the benefit was and I gave him an answer, notice I said "theoretically". However, lots of supercharged cars experience something sometimes referred to as "spark blowout" at high boost levels supposedly because it's hard to generate a spark in the high cylinder pressures. It sounds like they start cutting out at high rpms. The spark plug gaps are usually closed down to compensate, but I don't see why a higher voltage wouldn't help.

From the same guy that told me my car would be dead on the side of the road if I put an electric water pump on it. Now 2 years and 50k miles later, it's still going strong. Spark blowout can occur and usually tweaking the gap helps. you make a valid point but these products typically aren't the final/only solution.

I'm glad to hear your electric water pump works but I never said anything about electric water pumps 2 years ago (2003). However, if you said you logged 200k-300k miles w/ the electric water pump without any problems, it would have an impact on my view of electric water pumps because that is typically how long mechanical pumps can last. If not, you can buy about 3-4 mechanical pumps for the price of 1 electric water pump. I wouldn't want to be driving away from zombies and have the electric pump give out.

The OEMs will move towards electric-everything in the near future. Electric throttle/brake/steering is currently being used on various configurations but eventually electromechanical valves (solenoid actuated valves) along with electric water pumps and a whole slew of electric gizmos will be used if the push towards 42V systems is successful. I still would not trust one of these all-electric OBD-III contraptions simply because electrical systems have a tendency to be more fragile/frail than mechanical parts because electronics are susceptible to EMI, RFI, surging, spikes, etc... whereas mechanical parts are not susceptible to these electrical gremlins. Cops also want the ability to push a button and disable your car since everything would be integrated in 1 large multiplexing bus with OBD-III (GPS, remote access, etc...)

Back to the topic: I guess everyone here has the spare cash so go and buy the COP upgrades and see for yourself. Post results! :burnout:

[FordNut]

I'm glad to hear your electric water pump works but I never said anything about electric water pumps 2 years ago (2003).

Back to the topic: I guess everyone here has the spare cash so go and buy the COP upgrades and see for yourself. Post results! :burnout:
No, but like every other mod we've learned about somebody has to go first to find out if they actually work.

Sorry, it was only 1-1/2 years ago.

[wchain]

If theres interest in the COil Connectors that Mac talked about, we may be able to do something. I am checking with my distributor for pricing info right now! :beer: :burnout:

[SergntMac]

No, but like every other mod we've learned about somebody has to go first to find out if they actually work. Agreed, and I have accomplished this, in part. I am pleased with the performance of coil on plug silicone boots and connectors I have tested, and I find it a worthwhile mod, but you have to watch what you pay for it.

J.C. Whitney's advertises the connectors for 119.00 a set, P/N 266121. However, Summit's catalogue published through 31 Oct. 05, advertises the same product under P/N GRN471001, for 189.00. Me thinks there is some confusion with part numbers, and the correct P/N for our Marauder is GRN 28-1705-S.

I have not tested the upgraded coils, and I find them a bit pricey at J.C. Whitney's 527.99 per kit, though Summit doesn't offer them at all, at the present time.

WES CHAIN! Can you help us out here?

[wchain]

Agreed, and I have accomplished this, in part. I am pleased with the performance of coil on plug silicone boots and connectors I have tested, and I find it a worthwhile mod, but you have to watch what you pay for it.

J.C. Whitney's advertises the connectors for 119.00 a set, P/N 266121. However, Summit's catalogue published through 31 Oct. 05, advertises the same product under P/N GRN471001, for 189.00. Me thinks there is some confusion with part numbers, and the correct P/N for our Marauder is GRN 28-1705-S.

I have not tested the upgraded coils, and I find them a bit pricey at J.C. Whitney's 527.99 per kit, though Summit doesn't offer them at all, at the present time.

WES CHAIN! Can you help us out here?


Clear as mud. Maybe time for a call to Granatelli. I think that priicng JCW has should be 199.99 instead of 119.99

[CBT]

Then what's the point of this site? Word, I say. Word.

[FordNut]

Reply from Granatelli on another forum. If link doesn't work, I'll cut & paste...

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36930

[metroplex]

After reading about how Granatelli's products are made in China by another vendor who outsources it to China, I think I'll pass. :banned:

[FordNut]

After reading about how Granatelli's products are made in China by another vendor who outsources it to China, I think I'll pass. :banned:
Cool... The "Made in China" label is like the "Made in Japan" label used to be. For awhile it meant "junk", then it meant "quality". Chinese manufacturing has already turned the corner and lots of Chinese products are as good or better than the competitors' products. And cheaper.

Oh, and they won't fit your car anyway.

[Marauderjack]

The Granatelli solid coil connectors may be about the best mod I have done!!! :beer:

Thanks Mac for the tip!! :banana2: The bucking I had in TC lockup is gone and the car is MUCH more responsive!! :bows: Idle is absolutely smooth too!! :D

SIX of the EIGHT springies I removed from the coils were so loose they fell off not to mention the plug end is a sloppy fit as well?? :confused:

I installed new NGK's gapped at .050" and could immediately tell a difference when I fist started it. ;)

Nothing wrong with Chinese stuff....Usually American technology made by inexpensive labor.....All of my automotive stuff from China has been FIRST CLASS....including my 408W stroker kit in the Cobra!! :beer:

Thanks again Mac!!

Marauderjack :D

[metroplex]

Cool... The "Made in China" label is like the "Made in Japan" label used to be. For awhile it meant "junk", then it meant "quality". Chinese manufacturing has already turned the corner and lots of Chinese products are as good or better than the competitors' products. And cheaper.

Oh, and they won't fit your car anyway.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/data/500/medium/GCOP6.JPG
Looks the same as my COP packs...

If you think Chinese products are as good as US and Japanese counterparts right now, tell that to the Granatelli suspension parts that break, and the Granatelli upper intake elbows that crack and break when you try to install them. All made in China and comes wrapped in Chinese newspaper to boot. :banned:

You do realize they make stuff for Mustangs and that there are a lot more Mustang owners than Marauder owners to buy Granatelli products to yield a better sampling of product experiences. Chinese products may be better in the future, but for the time being, it's all poorly copied crap and I'm saying this as a guy who wants to save money.

[FordNut]

You constantly spout off about mods you have never tried. All rhetoric and hearsay as far as I can tell. And you continue even when people with first hand experience post their results which contradict what you believe.

The Marauder and Cobra COP coils don't fit a 2V. They are similar, but different. The connectors are the same. If you look at title of the original post you will see that it says coils, not connectors.

[metroplex]

You constantly spout off about mods you have never tried. All rhetoric and hearsay as far as I can tell. And you continue even when people with first hand experience post their results which contradict what you believe.

The Marauder and Cobra COP coils don't fit a 2V. They are similar, but different. The connectors are the same. If you look at title of the original post you will see that it says coils, not connectors.

When all you have is "I have only 10k miles on such and such product, works fine for me", it's not hard to ignore comments like that. When you have 100k-200k miles on such and such product, your statement/comment has more bearing. OEMs test to different standards than the typical gearhead and are designed to last as long as the extended warranty. You seem to ignore comments made by people with much more first hand experience with the same product. Your testing is interesting, but I would take it with a grain of salt. The Mustang owners are greater in number and a better source of data samples for product quality.
I'll let you guys spend the money to beta test. :pimp:

[SergntMac]

I'll let you guys spend the money to beta test. :pimp: You may believe in your heart that you are helping us Marauder owners, but you are not accomplishing that. You seem to purposly interrupt trains of thought and distract us from the topic. Please, stop this. It's like someone talking through a movie in a theater.

I'm more than willing to beta test anything for the Marauder, and I have tested a lot of stuff on behalf of my friends here. When it proves itself with performance improvement and bang for the buck, I let everyone know. When it's junk, and the seller is a supporting vendor here, I deliver my opinion to Moderators privately, and let them deal with it quietly.

If you wish to add something of value to the exchange of information, jump in anytime, but stick to the topic, please. Until you do, please stay out of our discussions.

This product works. It works for me, and it works for FordNut and MarauderJack. The more Marauder owners who try them, the more should be pleased with the performance and the bang for the buck appeal of this product.

I care not to read extraneous remarks about what gets wrapped in Chineese newspaper. If your only purpose here is to laugh at us dimwits, then keep your laughter to yourself, thank you.

Carry on, gents.

[Marauderjack]

You Go Mac!!!! :beer: :argue: :banana: :bows:

Marauderjack :bandit:

PS: Thanks Again!! ;)

[Hotrauder]

Thanks for all the good info on this mod. and thank you Mac for keeping the discussion on point and positive. Those of us new to our Marauders are on a search for results that work for other members in like situations. We are grateful for your input and experience. Ride on. Dennis:burnout:

Wes let us know what you find. Please.

[Marauder2005]

All he does is bad mouth the Marauder at CrownVic.net. I really

wonder why he even comes to this site at all. I'm absolutely dieing to know

the answer to this so, go ahead Metro reply, oh god please reply...

[FordNut]

All he does is bad mouth the Marauder at CrownVic.net. I really

wonder why he even comes to this site at all. I'm absolutely dieing to know

the answer to this so, go ahead Metro reply, oh god please reply...
He's a TROLL

[Marauder2005]

is this close :lol:


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[JRed04]

I think another important point that people have not mentioned is the fact that the coil will only output as much voltage as needed in each cyliner. What I am saying is that even though the coil is rated at 35KV that doesn't mean you are using that all of the time/ever. Voltage is a product of resistance and if there isnt sufficient resistance in the cylinder due to higher compression/atmospheric conditions/altered AF mixture then the coil wont put out more voltage. Your coil is only going to use as much as it needs based on these things. In my oppinion the only time you will need to upgrade is if you have a boosted motor, however someone already said here that the OE stuff is plenty good and there are many fast mustangs using just that.

[Marauderjack]

JRed04....

Resistance to the coil should only be the plug gap!!:argue:

I may be the only MM owner that has experienced a "Phantom Missfire" with the TC locked at low or cruising speeds.....More noticeable at low speeds??:( It felt like the car was jerking ever so slightly but most would ignore it since under acceleration it disappeared.:cool:

The COP connectors cured it completely and I'm guessing the poor connection at the plug was the culprit??:help: Those OEM "Springies" just lay over the plug (poor electrical connection) and are made of mild steel (magnetic)...corrosion would build resistance here (wrong place) thus give a low voltage spark (my guess)??:argue:

At ant rate mine is fixed after a year of searching for the "Phantom Missfire Gremlins"....And I am pleased with the COP connectors!!:bows:

I would recommed them to anyone!!:cool4:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[metroplex]

I believe most SCT tuners prevent TC lockup at low speeds (sub-50 to 60 mph) anyhow.

[Marauder2005]

I may be the only MM owner that has experienced a "Phantom Missfire" with the TC locked at low or cruising speeds.....More noticeable at low speeds??:( It felt like the car was jerking ever so slightly but most would ignore it since under acceleration it disappeared.:cool:



Marauderjack, I had the same problem with my '99 CV, just below 40 mph

it would "buck" on light throttle. It drove me ****** mad! So I bought the

Marauder. :)

[Marauderjack]

metroplex....

I have the SCT 9100 tuner and have moved the TC lockup from 40 MPH in 4th gear all over the place and even to 65 MPH in 4th like Lidio does and though less apparent at higher speeds the jerking was still there at 60-65!!:argue:

Since the TC locks in 2nd gear at 20 MPH with the OEM program from Ford....IT WAS NOT EVEN DRIVEABLE WITH THE STOCK TUNE......PERIOD!!:mad2:

I looked for the "FIX" and the connectors did it.......Just passing along a tip that might help someone somewhere!!:cool:

marauder2005......

GOOD MOVE ON YOUR PART!!:beer:

I was almost ready to sell my Marauder because of the damn bucking but thanks to the COP connectors......I bought the "Blower" instead!!!:bows: :burnout:

Life is GOOD......No......LIFE IS GREAT!!!:D

Marauderjack:bandit:

[SergntMac]

I could echo every word of MarauderJack's post (here and in other threads) truthfully, and sincerely, but now I feel like I'm singing to the choir.

[Dragcity]

We did a group buy of these with Wes not too long ago, Anyone know if he shipped 'em?

[FordNut]

We did a group buy of these with Wes not too long ago, Anyone know if he shipped 'em?
Nope, you did a GP on the wire connectors. This is the whole coil assembly.

But as far as I know the connectors haven't shipped yet, check it out in another thread.

[Marauder2005]

marauder2005......

GOOD MOVE ON YOUR PART!!:beer:

I was almost ready to sell my Marauder because of the damn bucking but thanks to the COP connectors......I bought the "Blower" instead!!!:bows: :burnout:

Life is GOOD......No......LIFE IS GREAT!!!:D

Marauderjack:bandit:

Im glad you fixed the problem, it is one of the most aggravating problems.

Im glad this was posted, so if this ever happens again It can be solved.

[Muffrauder]

Brian , when is it going to be finished? Why did you buy a complete Marauder? All you needed to start with was a nice firewall , you have changed everything else...OH did you change the firewall too? Just pulling your chain. Bryan

[FordNut]

Brian , when is it going to be finished? Why did you buy a complete Marauder? All you needed to start with was a nice firewall , you have changed everything else...OH did you change the firewall too? Just pulling your chain. Bryan
FINISHED??? What's that?

Just trying to figure out what's next.

[Paul T. Casey]

FINISHED??? What's that?

Just trying to figure out what's next.

Hmmm.... this is a good next


Cobra 5.2 Liter Longblock
Part No. 82700
$9495.00*
Here is the big boy of the 4.6 based engines. 5.2 liter shortblock, topped with stage 1 heads, upgraded timing components, and of course, valve covers, oil pan and timing cover. Ready to drop in your ride and go!

[FordNut]

Hmmm.... this is a good next


Cobra 5.2 Liter Longblock
Part No. 82700
$9495.00*
Here is the big boy of the 4.6 based engines. 5.2 liter shortblock, topped with stage 1 heads, upgraded timing components, and of course, valve covers, oil pan and timing cover. Ready to drop in your ride and go!
Yep, that's a nice one.

I'll prolly spend more and get a local 5.3 L build so I know exactly what's in it (and that way I can get some "special" stuff in it).