Input on Alignment and tires

[Eric91Z]

Well, I took my car in this morning for an oil change and thought I would ask if they can check on the pull to the right I have had since I got the car. The pull is not too bad and not always, there, but time it is there, it does not seem to be road crown related.

Anyway, the guy asks me if I had ever rotated the tires. I told him the car has 10,000 miles on it, I bought it with 5600 miles on it and no, I had not rotated. I did make sure to tell him if they decide to try a rotate to deal with the pull, to make sure NOT to rotate front to back, only side to side. And I will be checking my wheels for nicks and scratches when I pick it up.

Anyway, he then proceeds to tell me that they could try a rotate and that could save me the price of an alignment. I started to get frustrated at this point. I then say you would charge me for an alignment on a car still under warranty with only 10,000 miles on it. He then says it would only be covered if it is a bad strut or something like that, otherwise I may have hit a curb. This pissed me off even more.

Then he starts showing me what they will do: Oil change and rotate for $70+ and check alignment. I said $70 for oil change and rotate? Last oil change was $28 with the Ford synthetic. He then says they check and top fluids, lube the door locks and hinges, check tire pressure, and check the battery. WOW - $30 for that. The Honda dealership used to do all that for the $24 oil change price. I said no thanks - just the oil change and rotate and go from there.

I guess we will see what he says when he calls after doing the oil change and rotate and checking the alignment. If they want to charge for anything else I will say no thanks and look for a new Dealership. I wonder if one of the better Ford dealerships between home and work would be willing to work on the Marauder. They are the one that had an '03 Marauder for sale and the salesman said one of the service guys knew alot about them. And I am paranoid about them doing anything connecting to the computer and reprogramming with the XCal2 tune in there.

Oh well. Just being paranoid. Any input on the tire rotate? These are not directional, so they can be "rotated" from side to side, right (just not front to back). Since he brought up charging for the alignment, I didn't even want to bring up the alignment specs from this site. Guess I will save that for another day.

[fastblackmerc]

Well, I took my car in this morning for an oil change and thought I would ask if they can check on the pull to the right I have had since I got the car. The pull is not too bad and not always, there, but time it is there, it does not seem to be road crown related.

Anyway, the guy asks me if I had ever rotated the tires. I told him the car has 10,000 miles on it, I bought it with 5600 miles on it and no, I had not rotated. I did make sure to tell him if they decide to try a rotate to deal with the pull, to make sure NOT to rotate front to back, only side to side. And I will be checking my wheels for nicks and scratches when I pick it up.

Anyway, he then proceeds to tell me that they could try a rotate and that could save me the price of an alignment. I started to get frustrated at this point. I then say you would charge me for an alignment on a car still under warranty with only 10,000 miles on it. He then says it would only be covered if it is a bad strut or something like that, otherwise I may have hit a curb. This pissed me off even more.

Then he starts showing me what they will do: Oil change and rotate for $70+ and check alignment. I said $70 for oil change and rotate? Last oil change was $28 with the Ford synthetic. He then says they check and top fluids, lube the door locks and hinges, check tire pressure, and check the battery. WOW - $30 for that. The Honda dealership used to do all that for the $24 oil change price. I said no thanks - just the oil change and rotate and go from there.

I guess we will see what he says when he calls after doing the oil change and rotate and checking the alignment. If they want to charge for anything else I will say no thanks and look for a new Dealership. I wonder if one of the better Ford dealerships between home and work would be willing to work on the Marauder. They are the one that had an '03 Marauder for sale and the salesman said one of the service guys knew alot about them. And I am paranoid about them doing anything connecting to the computer and reprogramming with the XCal2 tune in there.

Oh well. Just being paranoid. Any input on the tire rotate? These are not directional, so they can be "rotated" from side to side, right (just not front to back). Since he brought up charging for the alignment, I didn't even want to bring up the alignment specs from this site. Guess I will save that for another day.
It's OK to rotate from side-to-side.

I believe Ford will do 1 alignment under 12,000 miles under warranty. At least that's what my dealer said. You just have to tell them that it pulls to one side. I went into the shop and slipped the alignment guy $10.00 and he agreed to use the specs I provided (found else where on this site).

[magindat]

First,Rotating tires will NOT correct an alignment problem.:nono: :bs:

Second, the man who put my baby back together advised to NEVER rotate side to side cuz once a tires 'cuts' from wear, the running in an opposite direction will work the belts loose inside the rubber and cause a soft tire at best and at worst a random catastrphic failure... even on non-directional tires.

Just passing it along for what it's worth.:burnout:

Bear in mind, this guy took my MM from wrecked (bad) to better than factory and is now a family friend. Ohyeah, he aligned to carfixer's specs....:D

[Eric91Z]

It's OK to rotate from side-to-side.

I believe Ford will do 1 alignment under 12,000 miles under warranty. At least that's what my dealer said. You just have to tell them that it pulls to one side. I went into the shop and slipped the alignment guy $10.00 and he agreed to use the specs I provided (found else where on this site).


Well, then I may be out of luck as the OASIS report and the service paper work I have shows that the previous owner already had one done. And the tires don't appear to have any abnormal wear on them, just a slight pull to the right.

If that is the case, I might wait until the spring since the winter tires will be going on sometime soon (preferrable later than sooner), but find a place in the spring that does the lifetime alignment deals and pay to have it done to the specs from this website.

[Eric91Z]

First,Rotating tires will NOT correct an alignment problem.:nono: :bs:

Second, the man who put my baby back together advised to NEVER rotate side to side cuz once a tires 'cuts' from wear, the running in an opposite direction will work the belts loose inside the rubber and cause a soft tire at best and at worst a random catastrphic failure... even on non-directional tires.

Just passing it along for what it's worth.:burnout:

Bear in mind, this guy took my MM from wrecked (bad) to better than factory and is now a family friend. Ohyeah, he aligned to carfixer's specs....:D

But I have seen tires cause a pull problem. Then again the tires could have been bad from a bad alignment. I remember on my last truck it had a really bad pull and the tires were well worn. Put new wheels and tires on it and no more pull - even with 33x12.50x15 Xterrain tires on it.

And now I am worried about them doing the "rotate" from side to side. I know on the Honda they used to do just front to back on the same side with no crossing over. Worse case it will be another month to month and a half this way and the winter tires will go on. Then I can mark the stock setup for where they should go back on the car. But so far the tires are not showing any abnormal or exceessive wear. Pretty even across the tread so far (knock on wood).

[wchain]

Just rotate side to side. Others will say its usless, you may only get a little more life out of the tire, I do mine anyway, but yes, the first alignment before 12K should be free. Just tell them that it pulls.

Go to the Ford Service website dealers have 9.99 oil changes and 12.99 rotations. Find the local dealer thats running specials.

Sounds like your dealer's trying to pull a fast one. Just like the difference between their defined preventative maintenances, and the books defined preventative maintenaces.

BTW, I rarely see the dealer go to the trouble to lube hinges etc. Maybe carfixer does it. Hey Claude, you hip to the idea of traveling to LM dealer to LM Dealer across the country yet? :)

[fastblackmerc]

First,Rotating tires will NOT correct an alignment problem.:nono: :bs:

Second, the man who put my baby back together advised to NEVER rotate side to side cuz once a tires 'cuts' from wear, the running in an opposite direction will work the belts loose inside the rubber and cause a soft tire at best and at worst a random catastrphic failure... even on non-directional tires.

Just passing it along for what it's worth.:burnout:

Bear in mind, this guy took my MM from wrecked (bad) to better than factory and is now a family friend. Ohyeah, he aligned to carfixer's specs....:D

I'd follow the vehicle manufactures specs on tire rotation

From TireRack website:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43

"If you car has non-directional tires that are a different size from front to rear, rotate them as shown in fig. E."

From the AAA website:

http://www.csaa.com/global/articledetail/0,1398,1004010306%257C2063,00. html

"An old myth is that radial tires should only be switched front to rear on the same side of the car. Manufacturing technology in the 1970s wasn't what it is today. Tire molds weren't as precise, and radial plies were known to acquire a rotational set, or direction. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, many carmakers recommended keeping radials continuously on the same side of the car. That hasn't been the case for years, however, except for high-performance directional tires. You should follow the rotation patterns in current tire service manuals, owner's manuals, and the accompanying illustrations."

[wchain]

First,Rotating tires will NOT correct an alignment problem.:nono: :bs:

Second, the man who put my baby back together advised to NEVER rotate side to side cuz once a tires 'cuts' from wear, the running in an opposite direction will work the belts loose inside the rubber and cause a soft tire at best and at worst a random catastrphic failure... even on non-directional tires.

Just passing it along for what it's worth.:burnout:

:D
Glad to see your car is back together.

Tire rotation will not correct alignment issues, but if you have pull from uneven wear, it may correct it. I dont know how many times I get customers coming in after an alignment from somewhere else, and it still pulls, and swapping the tires fixes the pull.

Next, radial tires can be rotated. Bias ply tires arent recommended to be side to side rotated. Look in almost most owners manuals, they recommend crossing tires front to rear or rear to front if you have a set of 4 same sized tires.

I.e. on my F150, I cross the fronts to the rear, and the rears come straiught forward. Done it 10 times in almost 45K with no tire issues whatsoever and I keep my foot to the floor in that truck. No blowouts yet....

For more information about tire rotations, visit the experts at The Tire Rack here at:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=43

[ctrcbob]

Do you mean to tell me that you leave your car at the dealer? (Without you being there). NO NO NO NO NO!

Not only do I never leave my car (or bike) at the dealer, I always choose a dealership where I can look in the service department. Does not mean that I walk into the service department, but I want to be able to see the car and see what the tech is doing. There are dealerships around here where they take the car around back into service, and you never see it again until they bring it back out. I avoid these dealers. If I can't see it, I don't use it. I've had dealers try to use not stock oil filters on my cars. (I saw it, and told them, NO WAY). Another time, I saw that the oil change person was not going to use the Synthetic I supplied, but their own bulk oil. (Bet he was going to keep that synthetic for himself). (His excuse was "Force of Habit" - sure). With another brand of car I recently had, I chose two dealers, that had a walkway with a railing in their service area. I could stand right there and watch. (Not that I always did, but I could).

I had one place ask me, "Whats the matter, don't you trust us"? Bet you know what I answered.

If you cant see your car, don't use that service department. My present Ford dealer has service bays set up where I can stand outside (in the rain?) and watch. Does not bother them and does not bother me.

[Eric91Z]

Do you mean to tell me that you leave your car at the dealer? (Without you being there). NO NO NO NO NO!

Not only do I never leave my car (or bike) at the dealer, I always choose a dealership where I can look in the service department. Does not mean that I walk into the service department, but I want to be able to see the car and see what the tech is doing. There are dealerships around here where they take the car around back into service, and you never see it again until they bring it back out. I avoid these dealers. If I can't see it, I don't use it. I've had dealers try to use not stock oil filters on my cars. (I saw it, and told them, NO WAY). Another time, I saw that the oil change person was not going to use the Synthetic I supplied, but their own bulk oil. (Bet he was going to keep that synthetic for himself). (His excuse was "Force of Habit" - sure). With another brand of car I recently had, I chose two dealers, that had a walkway with a railing in their service area. I could stand right there and watch. (Not that I always did, but I could).

I had one place ask me, "Whats the matter, don't you trust us"? Bet you know what I answered.

If you cant see your car, don't use that service department. My present Ford dealer has service bays set up where I can stand outside (in the rain?) and watch. Does not bother them and does not bother me.


I completely understand this, but unfortunately I can't afford to take the time off from work to stay and watch. Especially when it goes in for an oil change about every month and a half. I always check the car closely when picking it up to see if anything has been done to it. And I will be checking the wheels VERY closely today since the did the rotate. I am assuming the found the locking lugnut socket in the center console since I never mentioned it and they never asked about it. We will see if there is any nicks on the wheels.

And they said the car is out of the 12 month/12,000 mile service warranty and would have to charge for the alignment if I wanted it done. He said they rotated the tires and he had his "porter" take the car out and couldn't notice a pull. His PORTER???? WTF?

Guess I might have to think about a schedule change on days I need oil changes from now on so I can hang around. I worry the most about them taking it out and joy riding. I usually write down the current mileage on a post-it not and put up by the instrument cluster so we all know where it was at when I dropped it off. Forgot today, of course.

[wchain]

Instead of going to the dealer, DO IT YOURSELF!
I DIY and cut out the UPC for the oil and the filter, keep it in an envelope to show that I did change the oil at that time and date.

I've heard too many horror stories about dealers, so unless I am going to be there, I don't leave it. Once I left my truck there for a seat issue, and I got a ride to enterprise to get a rental. On the way back my truck pulls out in front of me onto the feeder road, and I follow it to Jack in the Box, where the tech drove it to get brefas. I puleld in behind him, hit the carjack button the alarm remote (which I had with me) and asked him to exit the truck. Where I then drove the truck back to the dealer. When the service advisor saw me pull up he almost crapped himself.

[GreekGod]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Burn Up That 1/4 Mile!


<HR style="COLOR: #dddddd" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->When I worked at a large Ford dealer from 1969 to 1976, we had a new car prep mechanic who was pretty sharp, probably the best mechanic in the garage. I once witnessed him do a burn-out with a customers new 428CJ Torino at the service desk. The customer that had just dropped it off was still talking to the service writer about the car. It really was funny to see it happen, even though I suppose it wasn't appreciated by the customer....well....I guess you had to be there

[duhtroll]

Eric -

Lemme know if you find a decent service dealer. We're still looking for one up here in Waterloo!

[Marauderjack]

We have a 1998 CV with a bunch of miles on it and never had a front end alignment...no tire wear issues but it was pulling to the right bad!! :argue:

I checked air pressure and it still pulled so I decided on a new set of tires and an alignment?? :confused:

New tires and VOILA.....NO PULLING AT ALL?? :bows: Must have been a bad tire?? :confused:

I would have never guessed a tire would cause that especially with no abnormal wear!! :cool:

My experience with alignment shops has been very poor over the years (steering wheel not centered, pulling one way or the other, etc.) so I avoid them unless something is seriously wrong!! :mad2:

Marauderjack :D

[GreekGod]

I had a neighbor in the early 1970's that bought a new Dodge van. I was looking it over and noticed except for the spare, none of the wheels had balance weights! He took it to the dealer and was told they didn't need balancing! He eventually did get them balanced under warrenty.

[Eric91Z]

Eric -

Lemme know if you find a decent service dealer. We're still looking for one up here in Waterloo!


I'm going to try Dewey Ford in Ankeny. They seem to have a pretty good reputation and they are on my way to work.

[stevencory]

The service place I brought a 2003 MM (300A) CROSS ROTATED the tires. I drove it 180 miles this way with the ABS (Yellow) and Brake (Red) lit up in the dash. :fire:

They said it was the speed sensors setting off the ABS/Brake lights. Does anyone know what other damage I may have done? Oh yea. They also aligned it with a 235/45 on the drivers side and a 245/55 on the passenger side. Do I need to get it realigned?

Thanks in advance,

[GreekGod]

Shouldn't be any damage-correct tire location should auto-reset the failure/warning lights. If service was done by a Ford or L-M dealer, take it to another and have improper service corrected. Any alignment man that didn't notice or correct tire mismatch should not be allowed to ever touch your car again.

[Rider90]

The service place I brought a 2003 MM (300A) CROSS ROTATED the tires. I drove it 180 miles this way with the ABS (Yellow) and Brake (Red) lit up in the dash. :fire:

They said it was the speed sensors setting off the ABS/Brake lights. Does anyone know what other damage I may have done? Oh yea. They also aligned it with a 235/45 on the drivers side and a 245/55 on the passenger side. Do I need to get it realigned?

Thanks in advance,
Nice!

My MM was realigned yesterday. The man, owner of the shop, did his own specs and I'm very impressed with how it goes down the road. He has never messed up anything we (Brother, Dad, Me) sent over to him.

[JMan]

The service place I brought a 2003 MM (300A) CROSS ROTATED the tires. I drove it 180 miles this way with the ABS (Yellow) and Brake (Red) lit up in the dash. :fire:

They said it was the speed sensors setting off the ABS/Brake lights. Does anyone know what other damage I may have done? Oh yea. They also aligned it with a 235/45 on the drivers side and a 245/55 on the passenger side. Do I need to get it realigned?

Thanks in advance,

Whoa! Don't walk, run away from that joint and never look back. Correcting the tire placement will correct the lights in time. You need to get the alignment re-checked after correcting the tires. Tire height does slightly change the geometry. But an a$$wipe place like that probably didn't do anything anyway. Best of luck.

J