New addition to my Marauder.... GT Heads

[Todd]

I have a set of these at a friend of mine's shop. I will be putting them on sometime after the turbo install. No one has done it yet as they just came out the end of this past week. So I am assuming fitment will not be an issue. But of course doing it the first time always leaves questions in the mind that need to be answered.......

They are the new redesigned race head used on the Ford GT. Should be perfect for a supercharged/turbo app.


Here is the description from the Ford literature and subsequently my friends site:

GT heads feature a reduced size lash adjuster allowing for a raised intake port, creating a more direct intake path These heads are the final revision of the 2000 Cobra R heads The most durable highest flowing modular engine cylinders heads available Bare head used on M-6007-R50 Grand Am cup race engine Fully loaded assembly 37mm intake valves, 32mm exhaust valves Intake valve lift: 11.2mm, exhaust valve lift: 11.5mm


Just thought you guys would want to hear about them.....


http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/3/4/4/gt_head_002.jpg

[martyo]

Wow!! Please take lots of pictures of your build up.

[DEFYANT]

Wow!! Please take lots of pictures of your build up.

What ^^^ he said.

I am surprised a magazine isnt interested in following this story.

[FordNut]

Gotta have more info...

Raised intake ports, so does the manifold still fit?

Exhaust ports the same?

Cam specs: duration, overlap, etc...

Biggest thing, $$$$??

Lookin good!

[Todd]

Gotta have more info...

Raised intake ports, so does the manifold still fit?

Exhaust ports the same?

Cam specs: duration, overlap, etc...

Biggest thing, $$$$??

Lookin good!


Some of these questions I do not have answers to. Such as the cam specs. They are factory Ford GT cams... I will try to get those specs.

Exhaust ports appear to be the same.

The way I understand the intake ports is that the position is the same. Our intake ports dip down then go more horizontal to meet the top of the valves. These dont make that dip. I will ost a pic of a straight shot down the intake ports in a minute.


They are a little price when you first see the sticker. However, what you would need to consider is that they come fully loaded. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, etc, etc, etc..... They are $1500 a head. That is actually cheap considering how much 16 valves per head, springs for those valves, 2 cams per head, etc cost....

They are pretty hard to get initially. My friends shop got I think 8 of the first 20+ heads delivered. Thats why I scooped mine up fast.


Marty, I will make sure there are a number of pics taken... No doubt about that! It should be basically a head swap. But if there are intricacies I will make sure they are noted for other guys benefits...

[Todd]

Here is a shot of the intake path.... Notice it is a straight shot. No dip like our heads take.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/3/4/4/ford_gt_head_003.jpg

[hitchhiker]

Sounds hot to me!

I can't wait to hear more!

:banana2:

[FordNut]

Those look SWEET. Wish I had an extra 3 grand laying around! Looking forward to the buildup pics and story.

[martyo]

Wow those look great. Be sure to get before and after dyno results. I bet those heads will mean a lot!

[Todd]

Wow those look great. Be sure to get before and after dyno results. I bet those heads will mean a lot!


They should do really well.

I am debating on getting them installed this week which would be before the install of the turbo. That way it would be the first install of these heads that I know of on a non-GT car. Or maybe the 2nd of 3rd overall. I know others have this same idea and they may have already moved on it. But I would love to be able to give instruction list for others that want to do it. So if it is a simple head swap, no complications, other will know that. If there are intricacies that you have to account for people would know that also.

If I do the install before the turbo, I would do a before and after dyno but the gain wouldnt be as significant because the cams are more suited for supercharged app since of course the GT is supercharged.

However, if I dont do it before I will certainly be doing before and after with the turbo already installed.... As long as I dont hit the limits of the stock internals to soon that should show the gains much better......

The cams are a much better cam than we have in our heads for forced induction. But the head design itself lends itself to more power. Less weight in the valvetrain, better intake runner design (path), etc...

[hitchhiker]

They should do really well.

I am debating on getting them installed this week which would be before the install of the turbo. That way it would be the first install of these heads that I know of on a non-GT car. Or maybe the 2nd of 3rd overall. I know others have this same idea and they may have already moved on it. But I would love to be able to give instruction list for others that want to do it. So if it is a simple head swap, no complications, other will know that. If there are intricacies that you have to account for people would know that also.

If I do the install before the turbo, I would do a before and after dyno but the gain wouldnt be as significant because the cams are more suited for supercharged app since of course the GT is supercharged.

However, if I dont do it before I will certainly be doing before and after with the turbo already installed.... As long as I dont hit the limits of the stock internals to soon that should show the gains much better......

The cams are a much better cam than we have in our heads for forced induction. But the head design itself lends itself to more power. Less weight in the valvetrain, better intake runner design (path), etc...


What are you doing to strengthen the bottom end prior to these modifications?

Thanks,

David

[Todd]

What are you doing to strengthen the bottom end prior to these modifications?

Thanks,

David


Nothing yet. Will be going to a all forged bottom end when the time is right. Thats why I mentioned I may hit the limits of the stock internals before I can really turn it up enough to see the maximum benefits from these heads.....

[merc6]

Whats the factory engines limitation, Hp wise? Valves, Pistons, Block?

[MISTERgadget]

Those are cool, I have the same ones.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/mrgadget/pics/gt%20heads/P1010006.JPG

:banana:

[MISTERgadget]

Some of these questions I do not have answers to. Such as the cam specs. They are factory Ford GT cams... I will try to get those specs.

Exhaust ports appear to be the same.

The way I understand the intake ports is that the position is the same. Our intake ports dip down then go more horizontal to meet the top of the valves. These dont make that dip. I will ost a pic of a straight shot down the intake ports in a minute.


They are a little price when you first see the sticker. However, what you would need to consider is that they come fully loaded. Cams, valves, springs, retainers, etc, etc, etc..... They are $1500 a head. That is actually cheap considering how much 16 valves per head, springs for those valves, 2 cams per head, etc cost....

They are pretty hard to get initially. My friends shop got I think 8 of the first 20+ heads delivered. Thats why I scooped mine up fast.


Marty, I will make sure there are a number of pics taken... No doubt about that! It should be basically a head swap. But if there are intricacies I will make sure they are noted for other guys benefits...

the intake port is physically taller (higher) than the 03+ heads the marauders have or any of the other 4v heads. you will need a custom manifold for a 4.6. Since i'm using a 5.4 i can use either the 00R or 05GT intakes

[Warpath]

...That way it would be the first install of these heads that I know of on a non-GT car. Or maybe the 2nd of 3rd overall. I know others have this same idea and they may have already moved on it...

Its been done before I believe - actually long enough ago to get into the Nov issue of MM&FF. Al Peppito (sp?) of Boss 330 Racing built an engine with these heads and I think a modified 00 Cobra R intake.

[Todd]

the intake port is physically taller (higher) than the 03+ heads the marauders have or any of the other 4v heads. you will need a custom manifold for a 4.6. Since i'm using a 5.4 i can use either the 00R or 05GT intakes


Your Lightning is a 2 valve motor. Have you done a motor swap????

Otherwise these heads will not even fit your motor. But I am sure you knew that....

[Todd]

Its been done before I believe - actually long enough ago to get into the Nov issue of MM&FF. Al Peppito (sp?) of Boss 330 Racing built an engine with these heads and I think a modified 00 Cobra R intake.


Cool....


It would be nice to know it has been done.

I guess he robbed a Ford GT of it's heads or has deep connections with Ford to get a set of heads before they were even available (other than on the car itself.)

I wonder if they used the 2000 R heads??? The GT heads are a revision of the 2000 R heads...


I will have to go get that mag to check it out.




EDIT.... Guess you could get the bare heads.... I was wrong. You just couldnt get the complete head.

[jimlam56]

Todd:
What turo kit are you referring to?
Thanks Jim

[Todd]

Todd:
What turo kit are you referring to?
Thanks Jim


I bought the Pro Turbo Kit.

[MISTERgadget]

Your Lightning is a 2 valve motor. Have you done a motor swap????

Otherwise these heads will not even fit your motor. But I am sure you knew that....

If you knew anything about ford modular motors, you'd know that the heads and blocks are all interchangeable. Any head, 2v of 4v, will fit on any block, 4.6 or 5.4, aluminum or iron. All modular motors share the same bore.

Don't worry about me, I have everything figured out for my project. I'm using a ford GT intake to eliminate problems with the intake port height on the GT heads.

The GT heads have a taller intake port because they use a much smaller valve lash adjuster. This allows them the room to raise the roof of the intake port to increase flow. However, it also raises the exterior physical dimension of the intake port and requires a different intake manifold.

Here's a picture of my GT heads next to my navigator heads to demonstrate the difference between the taller GT/cobra R intake port and a standard height one.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/mrgadget/P1010056.JPG



I guess he robbed a Ford GT of it's heads or has deep connections with Ford to get a set of heads before they were even available (other than on the car itself.)

I wonder if they used the 2000 R heads??? The GT heads are a revision of the 2000 R heads...

The bare castings of the GT heads have been available for quite a while now through ford parts, but just the bare heads cost about as much as our completely assembled ones did. If you read other mocular tech boards such as corral.net or modularfords you would find all this information. Al Pappito , under the username Boss330, even has a whole thread detailing the buildup of his 5.4 on corral.net

Anything else you'd like to know about mod motors and gt heads?

[Todd]

I would suggest you not question what I know when you dont even know me.

I understand what the term 'modular' means. I understand they are interchangable. I also understand there is alot more to putting a 4valve head on a traditionally 2 valve motor than just dropping them on.

Thats why I asked if you had done a motorswap to something like the Navigator motor. In which case it is a 5.4 4valve. Then you wouldnt have had to make all the changes.


Thank you for the pictures. If that is truly indicative of what I am up against then my plans will have to change on the head swap. I have not worked out the details on a custom intake manifold. That will have to be factored in.


As far as the bare castings being available, I would understand that being available. It will be nice to see a conversion on a 5.4. But we are talking about a conversion on a 4.6. Thats what will make this different. If someone has already done that then I would love to read about it. It would help me source parts or get ideas for fabrication.


Pm sent.



If you knew anything about ford modular motors, you'd know that the heads and blocks are all interchangeable. Any head, 2v of 4v, will fit on any block, 4.6 or 5.4, aluminum or iron. All modular motors share the same bore.

Don't worry about me, I have everything figured out for my project. I'm using a ford GT intake to eliminate problems with the intake port height on the GT heads.

The GT heads have a taller intake port because they use a much smaller valve lash adjuster. This allows them the room to raise the roof of the intake port to increase flow. However, it also raises the exterior physical dimension of the intake port and requires a different intake manifold.

Here's a picture of my GT heads next to my navigator heads to demonstrate the difference between the taller GT/cobra R intake port and a standard height one.

http://plaza.ufl.edu/mrgadget/P1010056.JPG




The bare castings of the GT heads have been available for quite a while now through ford parts, but just the bare heads cost about as much as our completely assembled ones did. If you read other mocular tech boards such as corral.net or modularfords you would find all this information. Al Pappito , under the username Boss330, even has a whole thread detailing the buildup of his 5.4 on corral.net

Anything else you'd like to know about mod motors and gt heads?

[SergntMac]

Todd, don't let the negative vibes slow you down. I don't care if it's been done a hundred times before, and published in Mad Magazine, we haven't had one of our members explore this path yet. So, it's news to me, and I'm looking forward to the details in your write-up, the problems and the fixes. Bravo, dude!

Going to come a day when no Marauder is stock anymore, I love it!

[FordNut]

Todd, don't let the negative vibes slow you down. I don't care if it's been done a hundred times before, and published in Mad Magazine, we haven't had one of our members explore this path yet. So, it's news to me, and I'm looking forward to the details in your write-up, the problems and the fixes. Bravo, dude!

Going to come a day when no Marauder is stock anymore, I love it!
I'll second that...

It looks to me that the intake ports are simply higher and may not be any further apart. If so, the stock intake manifold may fit, but you won't be able to close the hood. There are a few places that do porting on the intake manifolds and they cut them in half to do so, then weld them back together. Maybe one of them can shorten a manifold.

[Warpath]

Being first, second, or last to do a super trick mod like this is still exciting to me too. I was just pointing out that it has been done before to show that its possible.

Anyway, a sheet metal intake would probably work better than trying to cobble the stock one into a Frankenstein intake.

[FordNut]

Being first, second, or last to do a super trick mod like this is still exciting to me too. I was just pointing out that it has been done before to show that its possible.

Anyway, a sheet metal intake would probably work better than trying to cobble the stock one into a Frankenstein intake.
I don't doubt that, but without forced induction the sheet metal intake would have short runners and kill the bottom end torque.

[Warpath]

Well, at least with the mustang race only crowd, low end torque isn't much of a concern. They gear up - 4.56s and numerically higher typically. They launch at 5k or so and never really see bottom end. It is somewhat popular to hack up an OE intake to have really short runners. A street car or a heavy car like an MM is a different story though.

Forced induction could be a positive displacement blower or turbos which give better low end torque than a centrifugal. So, a short runner may not be that bad in these cases. Thats JMO.

[Todd]

I just wanted to post out that these are officially going on the car now. I hadnt made much progress on this and only really got motivated when I hurt my motor early in the summer.

I have spent the last 5 months having another shortblock built (after I hurt a piston) and working with my friends race shop (Racer Walsh) on adapting the GT heads to the 4.6 engine while keeping the stock intake manifold which was a HUGE deal for me. Others have put these heads on but most if not all have switched to carb or some other custom manifold solution.

We finally have a solution and are ready to put it all in....!

Dennis Reinhart is in the process of doing the engine swap now. You can follow his progress in his forum under a thread titled 'Turbo Marauder' or something similar.