Popping from rear suspension diagnosed

[Fourth Horseman]

Didn't think this was really technical enough to be posted in the garage so I'm posting it here.

I finally got off my lazy back side and took the Marauder into my Lincoln/Mercury dealership to have the popping from the rear suspension diagnosed. For those of you that haven't experienced this, some of us have a fairly loud squeak and pop sound coming from the rear of the car when we drive diagonally through deep gutters or driveways.

Turns out it's my rear sway bar links and bushings. They've got the parts ordered and will be installed next week. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Also, I inquired about new PCM code, as I know at least one other person here had his flashed with new code. I was informed that they will not flash the PCM unless there is a specific TSB for problems. They say they ran the VIN# through Oasis and no TSBs were found. *shrug*

[TAF]

Hey Fourth,

So your having them replaced? (Swaybar links/bushings)

Please, keep us up to date as I have heard such noise occassionally myself.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
I was informed that they will not flash the PCM unless there is a specific TSB for problems.


Oh boy, another one of the THOSE dealerships... seems no matter what your relationship with a dealer is, this attitude always gets in the way.

Here's my suggestion to you (and precisely what I'm going to do myself). Find out what the s/w is supposedly curing and complain about it. They'll log the complaint and that will be the basis for the "repair". In our cases, I've heard of the old s/w causing plug fouling and rough running on cold starts... I've experienced this right out of my driveway on my one and only drive to work with the car thus far. So you can bet that complaint is going to be logged. And they'll flash the s/w. Or I'll have to escalate this. :nono:

This already happened to me once before, with my '98 WS6 when it was about 1 year old. GM released new s/w versions dealing with a too-high-signal from the MAF (throwing a code) and the occasional failure to disengage the A/C during WOT (yikes!!) as well as some driveability stuff (which I also wanted). They refused, saying there was no complaint. So I yanked everything in the intake path forward to the MAF, took it out on the street and pegged that MOFO, threw the code, and brought it back and said "there! you've got your lousy code!". S/w reflashed promptly. :cool4:

[MMM2003]

I had my PCM flashed, due to the cold start issues.
There is no TSB, but Triple T is correct, since I had complained about this earlier, they did the upgrade right away during the next oil change.

My SM told me, that as soon as you bring in your car, they run the VIN to see if there are any TSB's, Recall's or upgrades out.
According to them, the will automatically update, if available.
This may just be this dealership, but I would expect, that all of them do this !!

YOU GO GET THEM TripleTransAM !

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by MMM2003

YOU GO GET THEM TripleTransAM !


Luckily, nothing to go get, so far... they did check the s/w revision and noted I did not have the latest, and did not try to shy away from the job (so far). It's just that they don't have the latest s/w in house yet (no problem there, my Pontiac dealership was in the same situation, I did eventually get the s/w update no
sweat). They'll let me know when it gets in, but I'll call them on Monday to remind them of the cold start issues.

In case anyone from that dealership is reading, I'd like to publicly call out Terrebonne Ford (just north of Montreal) for a great sales experience and what seems like great technical support... they checked my alignment before I took possession and did keep it on the 'aggressive' side of Ford's specs (which are surprisingly pretty aggressive as they are!!!). I shouldn't have any trouble getting the s/w updated.

MMM2003, I noticed you're in Madison WI. Next time you spot a red 1978 T/A around Madison or Stoughton, tell the owner (Brad) that Steve from Montreal sez hi!

[CRUZTAKER]

Originally posted by MMM2003
My SM told me, that as soon as you bring in your car, they run the VIN to see if there are any TSB's, Recall's or upgrades out.


This is what my dealer in Cleveland does on every visit , if there is something out there, I get it. Then again, they have only spld two MM's since delivery, so the mechanics love to see us come in for service.

[MMM2003]

I'll keep my eyes open TripleT.

[RCSignals]

TTA, what is the calibration code on the current car?

It should be on a small sticker on the drivers door frame, at the front (A pillar area)

[russ in VA]

I understand what we are talking about, but I can't figure out what SW stands for. Help?

[Fourth Horseman]

Thanks for the advice, all. It is appreciated. What I intend to do is pull a couple of plugs when I change my oil next time and see if I can discover any fouling. If anything turns up then I'll run back to the dealership and make it an issue of it.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by russ in VA
I understand what we are talking about, but I can't figure out what SW stands for. Help?


s/w = software.

h/w = hardware.

Just some shorthand computer geek talk. :coolman:

Used to be in the old days engine computers (ECMs) had their fuel/ignition/misc tables on removeable chips, occupying 32 kilobytes or less. Now we've got maps and info so detailed and complex that it can be as large as 4 Megabytes and requires downloading via a dedicated link.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
What I intend to do is pull a couple of plugs when I change my oil next time and see if I can discover any fouling.


Based on the experiences of those on this list, how long would it take to foul up plugs on the older s/w?

As for which s/w I currently have, that info will have to wait... we got a surprise dumping of the white stuff today. Not a big deal, we usually get a mild 1/2 inch or so at the end of March every year, but what kills me is that the temps have dropped and everything's wet, forcing the use of road salt.:po:

So no MM for the next few days. (I'm not 'wintering' it until I get proper tires and a decent rust-proofing!).

[Fourth Horseman]

Wow, you got a white MM. :D We feel your pain,TripleTransAm!

[Wags]

I just had my car in for the subwoofer rattle on Friday, and told them about the new code dump. They looked it up and said that there was indeed a new load. But when they tried to load it in, they told me that I already had the latest load. I've had my car since last June, so how could it be the latest load? They couldn't answer that, and the cold hesitation is still there, but the subwoofer rattle is gone.

Wags

[Ray Snyder]

Wags, I've had mine since June also, and I have the same cold hesitation. it lasts for about 5 stop lights and then it's fine again. My problem is that I have the DR chip. It did the same thing before I installed the chip. But I don't know how an upgrade will help me.

[2003_MM_FYRE49]

Wags, where did you take your Marauder, and what did they do to correct the problem? I have that rattle in mine also.

Thanks,

Tim

[Wags]

2003_MM_FYRE49,

I took mine to Rizza in Naperville. I printed out some threads about it from here, and gave them to them for reference. It is very slightly muffled from what it was before, but the rattle is gone, and it still sounds good to me. They followed the suggestions from the posts from here.

Wags

[Fourth Horseman]

Just a quick update: Got the new rear sway bar links and bushings put in by my dealer and the rear still pops when driving diagonally through deep gutters. :rolleyes:

I'm going to take it back in and have them keep looking. I still think the watts link might be to blame.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
Just a quick update: Got the new rear sway bar links and bushings put in by my dealer and the rear still pops when driving diagonally through deep gutters.


What I am about to say may be totally incorrect, as I have yet to acquire the factory service manual, but if the MM rear axles are held in place with C-clips, it could be some excessive lateral play in the axles within the axle tubes. Most General Motors solid rear axles are of the C-clip variety, and with age you can get a clunk that sounds a lot like what you've got.

With the car stationary, try to push on the side of the car far enough behind the car such as to set up a rocking 'yawwing' motion. Tough to describe, but you want the car oscillating horizontally about a pivot point someplace in the center of the car. Wiggling it's a$$, if you will, always applying force synchronized with the motion.

If you've got some slop in the rear axles, you will get the clunk once you get the car wiggling hard enough to simulate what happens when you go over a bump at not-quite 90 degrees.

My GTA has this clunk. It usually takes me about 5-10 seconds of manually rocking the car in this fashion to get the clunks happening as the axles slide in and out of the tubes ever so slightly.

[ChuckB]

Must mean it's a clunker....

sorry just couldn't resist.

[Fourth Horseman]

TripleTransAm, thanks for the response. Wouldn't this affect all Marauders if it was the axle?

I'll definitely look into what you say, but it really sounds like a bushing to me. Still, I don't know for sure. Next time I wash the car I'll try to get it to yaw by pushing on it as you describe.

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

I went out just now and tried the CAVEMAN style of rocking the a$$ of the car so to speak and i've heard no niose (rocked her so hard she almost moved over an inch), but the other day when i pulled into my driveway horizontlly I heard a noise similar to what you described. first time hearin it so i though maybe it was somthing in the trunk, but it was loud and scared the ***** out of me(pulled in at like 30MPH), backed out came in again and heard the same noise only softer? but didnt hear it today (pullin in at mach 2) so i guess it comes and goes?

Let us know what fixes it if the dealer ever figures it out.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Fourth Horseman
TripleTransAm, thanks for the response. Wouldn't this affect all Marauders if it was the axle?


Disclaimer: I really still do not know the retention method used in the MM rear axle setup, so I don't know if it's C-clips or whatever.

If it is C-clips, it could be a matter of improper tolerances. In the case of my GTA, I believe it's the C-clips that are worn out somewhat and are allowing too much left/right play. It sounds worse than it is... I mean, I only hear the clunk once in a blue moon, as you do, but one sunny afternoon I got to rocking the car as I described and was able to get the car to clunk within 10-15 seconds of rocking. This wear is accelerated by excessive cornering at high speeds... I don't particularly do this too often so I figure it's just the fact that it's a 16 year old car (wow... sweet sixteen!).

With the car on a lift, you can also *feel* the slop by grabbing the rear tires and pushing/pulling. There is noticeable play and an audible clunk. Will I fix it? If I ever pull the diff apart for whatever reason, I might do it. Until then, it doesn't bother me enough to make me worry (unless it becomes a hazard to safe driving, of course).

Does your diff whine? (I was gonna ask "does your rear-end whine" but thought better of it, knowing this board! :D )

If not C-clips, then it could be lower control arm bushings, etc... I really have to get the shop manual so I can know what the heck I'm talking about when it comes to MMs...

[Vince Gortner]

My rear suspension just started squeaking! Very annoying...

Did we figure this out yet? Sway bar bushings sound about right, but that didn't help?