To Stroke or Not?

[FordNut]

What do y'all think? Any issues with supercharging a 5.0 stroker? Don't strokers usually make more torque? Cost to build a motor is essentially the same for a std displacement or a stroker, so why not?

[snowbird]

I'm looking at this since a little time, to be ready when mister under-the-hood will decide it's time.

So far, what i have found is that for an all out racing dutie, it is probably better to stick with stock 4.6 and pour on more boost to taste. Some of the top notch tuners seems to agree on this.

But my goal is a bit different with a daily driver. In that case, most of the time off boost, a broader torque curve from a stroked 5.0 look more interesting on paper. For fooling around, a moderate amount of boost.

A stroked and bored 5.3 or 5.4 from our block is looking like the receipe for a nice under the hood grenade IMO, since it would be too much to ask for our modest stock 4.6 origin. But that only my opinion, as i don't pretend anything on this.

EDit: I did vote stroke it!!

[SergntMac]

Once again, no options in this poll for my way of thinking. S'okay, no problem, I'm rather used to it now. Left field is rather peaceful without the madding crowd...

I prefer "bore only", but I'm not going to say why. Looking at the contemporary aftermarket parts suppliers, stroking seems the present fad. Stroker kits everywhere, but if I wanted to move up in CID (which I do), I wouild prefer to go the "big bore" route. This way, I'm only buying pistons, and not a new forged crank and a set of H beam rods like I bought last year. Sorry to "bore" y'all with my reasoning, but "been there, did that" engine wise.

What's on your mind, Brian?

[martyo]

My suggestion is simple. Buy my motor and close this pole.

[Paul T. Casey]

I say bore and stroke, something in Hot Rod a few issues ago about keeping the cylinders square. An idea I'm kicking around for the future.

[FordNut]

Once again, no options in this poll for my way of thinking. S'okay, no problem, I'm rather used to it now. Left field is rather peaceful without the madding crowd...

I prefer "bore only", but I'm not going to say why. Looking at the contemporary aftermarket parts suppliers, stroking seems the present fad. Stroker kits everywhere, but if I wanted to move up in CID (which I do), I wouild prefer to go the "big bore" route. This way, I'm only buying pistons, and not a new forged crank and a set of H beam rods like I bought last year. Sorry to "bore" y'all with my reasoning, but "been there, did that" engine wise.

What's on your mind, Brian?
Sorry 'bout that... I added the bore/stroke option as an afterthought anyway. When I spoke with a highly respected engine builder about pricing, he asked if I was going with a stroker, then said it was about the same price either way. I'm not sure about durability issues with stroking or boring either one, especially with a power adder. I do know strokers tend to make more torque, while big bore motors tend to rev quicker (not a problem with my new setup!)

I figure I'm gonna build a motor and the added cost for these options is minimal, so that's the time to do it.

[Lidio]

I say if you want to swing the extra bucks for a stoker during a rebuild or a forged short-block upgrade... go for it. I’m a big fan of stroking the 4.6L’s. I was also big fan of big-boring the 4.6’s too. But a few reason its become more expensive to go big-bore on an aluminum 4.6 block then simply stroking it. The big-boring’s greater cost comes from a more laborsome procedure to install the sleeves in the block its self, and the good sleeves just plain costing more these days from what I’ve seen being driving by demand.

With a stroker kit, you simply replace the crank with a stroker crank and simply buy the matching connecting rods and pistons. When you upgrade to a forged short block on a 4.6L, your going to buy pistons and rods any way. So the only real extra cost is that of the steel stroker crank. When we quote for a typical 4.6L forged short block rebuild, we start at $3400.00 for a fully machined and built up 4.6L forged short block. To stoke it, its about another $1000.00 because the stroker crank cost more and theirs a little bit of grinding required for proper fitment of the stroker crank with in the block. The other reason stroking has become popular is because you cant big-bore the iron 4.6L blocks. Theirs simply not enough room for the big bore liners. When and if these blocks (iron) crack a bore, we simply throw them away and not even consider sleeveing them. Their cheap and plentiful to replace.

Some would lead you to believe that Big-Boring is better then stroking a 4.6L. They both end up at about 305 cubes as opposed to 281 cubes when stock. But big boring unshoourds the chamber and valves where as stroking does not. This may be true and note worthy, but not enough to worry about from what I’ve seen (especially on a boosted street motor) and no matter how you look at it, the old saying holds true no matter what “ theirs no replacement for displacement”.

We’ve also built a couple of Big-Bore Stroker’s amounting to be about 325 cubic inch. But these are much more expensive and I’m still not sure how the blocks will tolerate this with a power adder long term.

Thanks

[DEFYANT]

If the day ever comes to replace my engine, it will be stroked.

Thanks for that response Lidio.

[Joe Walsh]

BIG BORE!!!!:D

Of course, This is not an impartial opinion...

[RR|Suki]

Well, mine was stroked, and it was a beast, now it's both... gimmie a a little while to get her broke in and I'll tell ya what she feels like ;)

[gray bear]

There is no substitute for cubic inches. Stroke it. I've built 2 stroker motors so far and both are still going strong and driven daily. One was a chevy 350 stroked/bored to 383, and the other is my current daily driver, a Dodge 1500 with a 5.9 stroked/bored to 406.9 cu.in.

[Warpath]

I did some research back when I had my engine replaced. I was adviced to go to bore instead of stroke because the bore to stroke ratio was more favorable. Also, as Lidio mentioned, you can get slightly better volumetric efficiency since you can unshroud the valves. Lastly, stroking the engine increases piston speed and decreases the max rpm. These 4V engines love high rpm and reducing top speed can be counterproductive. I've been keeping my eye on things lately and it seems that people are starting to sway back to stock displacement with a blower since upping boost can more than overcome the smaller displacement. Just my thoughts. I have no regret going blown big bore.

[Marauder2005]

There is no substitute for cubic inches. Stroke it. I've built 2 stroker motors so far and both are still going strong and driven daily. One was a chevy 350 stroked/bored to 383, and the other is my current daily driver, a Dodge 1500 with a 5.9 stroked/bored to 406.9 cu.in.

I like to call a supercharger a replacment for displacment, just ask

BillyG ;)

[FordNut]

Doing research on Big Bore Stroker. VT engines lists it as 324 CID. According to some experts, 15 psi ought to put it between 700-800 rwhp. Sounds wicked. Wonder if it'll hook? Getting a quote.

[RR|Suki]

Doing research on Big Bore Stroker. VT engines lists it as 324 CID. According to some experts, 15 psi ought to put it between 700-800 rwhp. Sounds wicked. Wonder if it'll hook? Getting a quote.

I'll be running a dyno at some point soon and can see what she will put out just for curiosity sake since that's the motor I have and I do believe the paxton is set for 14 right now... I know I don't wanna be driving around with much over 500hp I don't see that hookin so good on the street... then again you guys do love the track :D

[David Morton]

I say bore and stroke, something in Hot Rod a few issues ago about keeping the cylinders square. An idea I'm kicking around for the future.Paul's talking about bore and stroke being the same. It's long been known that engines that have the same bore and stroke last longer and give better performance all around.

[FordNut]

I'll be running a dyno at some point soon and can see what she will put out just for curiosity sake since that's the motor I have and I do believe the paxton is set for 14 right now... I know I don't wanna be driving around with much over 500hp I don't see that hookin so good on the street... then again you guys do love the track :D
Looking forward to hearing about it...

[SergntMac]

Now I'll explain why I prefer bore only over stroking, or, bore and stroked.

Presuming we are starting out with a stock Marauder engine that's still in the car and running, I'll also presume that the internals will get the customary upgrades. Steel forged 8 bolt racing crank, forged H beam rods of some flavor, and aluminum forged pistons from your vendor of choice, right?

Guys...All of this stuff is heavier than OEM parts, much heavier, and most notable in piston weight alone. "Stroking" means the pistons will travel a greater distance inside the combustion chamber. You bump CID by pulling the piston down further than it travels in stock form, by shortening rod length, and changing some measurements for the crank.

Here's a simple example in round numbers. If the stock OEM stroke has the stock OEM pistion that weighs one pound, traveling down one inch, and back up one inch, stroking this engine changes this travel to 1 and 1/8 inch down and back up, and with a piston that weighs one and 1/8th pounds. Add to that the weight of the new rods and new crank, and you're taxing the end benefit of the mod.

Remembering that 5000 RPM is 5000 RPM for either a stock or stroked engine, the plan is to add some weight to the rotating assembly and make it travel an increased distance, expecting it to do this faster and produce more power, right? Bore and stroke does not change this all that much, a shorter stroke still has a heavier pistion traveling a greater distance, and for what this will cost you, look for alternatives.

I suppose the increased CID will provide the extra energy you'll burn up in this exercise, and you may have some new power left over to call it all good thing, but it just doesn't add up for me. Review the benefits of boring alone for power, and remember that when you bore only, you still have the extra weight of the upgraded piston to move, and you still get the extra CID, but keeping the piston travel the same will leave more power on reserve, after the taxes are paid.

Just another way to look at things, eh?

[Shankin]

Hot rod did a write up on this issue a couple of months ago. Bore Vs stroke.

[Shankin]

418 two kits and a f1r should just about do it!

[martyo]

418 two kits and a f1r should just about do it!

Who would be crazy enough to do that? :D

By the way, did I mention that my motor is for sale?

[Shankin]

Who would be crazy enough to do that? :D

By the way, did I mention that my motor is for sale?

Now lets put together something that will really run!;)

[FordNut]

Who would be crazy enough to do that? :D

By the way, did I mention that my motor is for sale?
You wouldn't do that would ya, Marty?

Sorry, std displacement and low compression won't cut it for me. I'm going for between 9.5:1 and 9.8:1 and bigger displacement. Not sure yet if it's gonna be a Stroker or a Big Bore Stroker. Gotta get a price quote put together to help decide.

[TooManyFords]

Who would be crazy enough to do that? :D

By the way, did I mention that my motor is for sale?
Willl you take payments ?!?

[John F. Russo]

My suggestion is simple. Buy my motor and close this pole.


How much does it cost?

Is your engine still a 4.6 liter displacement?

How did you get so much hp? As I recall 695 hp? Is this RWHP?.

[MarauderTJA]

I say if you want to swing the extra bucks for a stoker during a rebuild or a forged short-block upgrade... go for it. I’m a big fan of stroking the 4.6L’s. I was also big fan of big-boring the 4.6’s too. But a few reason its become more expensive to go big-bore on an aluminum 4.6 block then simply stroking it. The big-boring’s greater cost comes from a more laborsome procedure to install the sleeves in the block its self, and the good sleeves just plain costing more these days from what I’ve seen being driving by demand.

With a stroker kit, you simply replace the crank with a stroker crank and simply buy the matching connecting rods and pistons. When you upgrade to a forged short block on a 4.6L, your going to buy pistons and rods any way. So the only real extra cost is that of the steel stroker crank. When we quote for a typical 4.6L forged short block rebuild, we start at $3400.00 for a fully machined and built up 4.6L forged short block. To stoke it, its about another $1000.00 because the stroker crank cost more and theirs a little bit of grinding required for proper fitment of the stroker crank with in the block. The other reason stroking has become popular is because you cant big-bore the iron 4.6L blocks. Theirs simply not enough room for the big bore liners. When and if these blocks (iron) crack a bore, we simply throw them away and not even consider sleeveing them. Their cheap and plentiful to replace.

Some would lead you to believe that Big-Boring is better then stroking a 4.6L. They both end up at about 305 cubes as opposed to 281 cubes when stock. But big boring unshoourds the chamber and valves where as stroking does not. This may be true and note worthy, but not enough to worry about from what I’ve seen (especially on a boosted street motor) and no matter how you look at it, the old saying holds true no matter what “ theirs no replacement for displacement”.

We’ve also built a couple of Big-Bore Stroker’s amounting to be about 325 cubic inch. But these are much more expensive and I’m still not sure how the blocks will tolerate this with a power adder long term.

Thanks

I am going to build a forged motor hopefully this winter. I like the stroked idea but I was also considering looking at putting a 5.4 motor in the car. What's your thoughts on this? I realize it will cost more, but do you think the results would be worth it? And what additional issues need to be looked at like tranny etc?

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

[Warpath]

Put a modded Navigator 4V 5.4 into it.

[Rider90]

Put a modded Navigator 4V 5.4 into it.
Here we go with the 5.4L talk again...:shake:

[SergntMac]

I can't wait...

[John F. Russo]

I'm not waiting.

BTW, who keeps changing my age? It is suppose to stay the same!

[dwasson]

I am going to build a forged motor hopefully this winter. I like the stroked idea but I was also considering looking at putting a 5.4 motor in the car.

The 5.4 has a lot of issues in physically fitting the motor to the car. It's taller and wider. I wonder if you could fit if you went to a dry sump oil system though. That would save you a few inches in height if you could modify the motor mounts to fit.

[MarauderTJA]

The 5.4 has a lot of issues in physically fitting the motor to the car. It's taller and wider. I wonder if you could fit if you went to a dry sump oil system though. That would save you a few inches in height if you could modify the motor mounts to fit.

That's what I was thinking. Mostly likely too many alterations to make it work $$$$. Looking better and better for stroking a forged short block to a 302 c.i.. A little nervous on boring it out.

[MarauderTJA]

Now I'll explain why I prefer bore only over stroking, or, bore and stroked.

Presuming we are starting out with a stock Marauder engine that's still in the car and running, I'll also presume that the internals will get the customary upgrades. Steel forged 8 bolt racing crank, forged H beam rods of some flavor, and aluminum forged pistons from your vendor of choice, right?

Guys...All of this stuff is heavier than OEM parts, much heavier, and most notable in piston weight alone. "Stroking" means the pistons will travel a greater distance inside the combustion chamber. You bump CID by pulling the piston down further than it travels in stock form, by shortening rod length, and changing some measurements for the crank.

Here's a simple example in round numbers. If the stock OEM stroke has the stock OEM pistion that weighs one pound, traveling down one inch, and back up one inch, stroking this engine changes this travel to 1 and 1/8 inch down and back up, and with a piston that weighs one and 1/8th pounds. Add to that the weight of the new rods and new crank, and you're taxing the end benefit of the mod.

Remembering that 5000 RPM is 5000 RPM for either a stock or stroked engine, the plan is to add some weight to the rotating assembly and make it travel an increased distance, expecting it to do this faster and produce more power, right? Bore and stroke does not change this all that much, a shorter stroke still has a heavier pistion traveling a greater distance, and for what this will cost you, look for alternatives.

I suppose the increased CID will provide the extra energy you'll burn up in this exercise, and you may have some new power left over to call it all good thing, but it just doesn't add up for me. Review the benefits of boring alone for power, and remember that when you bore only, you still have the extra weight of the upgraded piston to move, and you still get the extra CID, but keeping the piston travel the same will leave more power on reserve, after the taxes are paid.

Just another way to look at things, eh?


Mac, based on the above, what is your opinon if the motor is bored in addition to being stroked with light weight pistons and rods to address the weight differences? I am in the research stage of my engine project and will be looking at everything I can.

Tom, Cape Coral, Florida

[SergntMac]

Mac, based on the above, what is your opinon if the motor is bored in addition to being stroked with light weight pistons and rods to address the weight differences? I am in the research stage of my engine project and will be looking at everything I can. Tom, Cape Coral, Florida I think it's kind of clear here, I do not favor stroking. I recognize that it's an inexpensive way to build more power, which means that it is popular because it the cheapest way to go.

When you say "lightweight" do you mean lighter than the OEM parts? Or, lighter than other custom rods and pistions. IMHO, all of them are heavier than their stock counterparts.

[FordNut]

So far, what I've found is two different ways to go big bore. Dry sleeve is $$ and wet sleeve is $$$$. Wet sleeve is better of course. Wet sleeve is much better for a big bore stroker because the cylinder sleeves extend farther into the crankcase and prevent the piston skirts from being pulled out of the bottoms of the cylinders as far.

[MarauderTJA]

I think it's kind of clear here, I do not favor stroking. I recognize that it's an inexpensive way to build more power, which means that it is popular because it the cheapest way to go.

When you say "lightweight" do you mean lighter than the OEM parts? Or, lighter than other custom rods and pistions. IMHO, all of them are heavier than their stock counterparts.

I have read about several high performance companies that make ultra light, forged pistons and rods. Lighter than our OEM cast? I doubt it, but now I want to look at the exact weight differences in both. Just researching.

[MarauderTJA]

So far, what I've found is two different ways to go big bore. Dry sleeve is $$ and wet sleeve is $$$$. Wet sleeve is better of course. Wet sleeve is much better for a big block stroker because the cylinder sleeves extend farther into the crankcase and prevent the piston skirts from being pulled out of the bottoms of the cylinders as far.

Interesting Brian. If this is the way to go, the wet sleave would have to be the choice. No sense in compromizing here. Any idea on costs for the wet sleeve set up?

[FordNut]

Interesting Brian. If this is the way to go, the wet sleave would have to be the choice. No sense in compromizing here. Any idea on costs for the wet sleeve set up?
Sleeves are about $1300, machining close to another $1000 according to info on VTengines website.

[SergntMac]

Sleeves are about $1300, machining close to another $1000 according to info on VTengines website. And I do not find that cost unreasonable. If you're looking to build a refined and durable engine that produces the kind of power you want, it's not going to be cheap. The aluminum modular 5.0L block from Ford Racing is 3K

[MarauderTJA]

And I do not find that cost unreasonable. If you're looking to build a refined and durable engine that produces the kind of power you want, it's not going to be cheap. The aluminum modular 5.0L block from Ford Racing is 3K

Thanks Brian. And Mac your right. To do it right, the way it should be done, it looks like it will be close to a $10K project with tranny and axle upgrades....A lot of money but probably worth it in the end. Too steep for me. Have to cut some corners here.

[FordNut]

Thanks Brian. And Mac your right. To do it right, the way it should be done, it looks like it will be close to a $10K project with tranny and axle upgrades....A lot of money but probably worth it in the end. Too steep for me. Have to cut some corners here.
Probably closer to $10k PLUS tranny and axle upgrades.

[snowbird]

Probably closer to $10k PLUS tranny and axle upgrades.
Yes. Actually, on the VT site, they list a typical 324" street long block for 9000$ and 9400$ for a race one. That is of course excluding code charge for the block, shipping, install and those pesky little things we usually don't consider first hand like fluids, bolts, retune and all. IMO, i wouldn't be surprised to see 13000-14000$ with key in the hand for just the engine. This is not a rant. I'd also like to have one but quality as a price.

[MarauderTJA]

Yes. Actually, on the VT site, they list a typical 324" street long block for 9000$ and 9400$ for a race one. That is of course excluding code charge for the block, shipping, install and those pesky little things we usually don't consider first hand like fluids, bolts, retune and all. IMO, i wouldn't be surprised to see 13000-14000$ with key in the hand for just the engine. This is not a rant. I'd also like to have one but quality as a price.

While guys, if I win the lottery, I'll buy each of us one.:D Until then, too costly for me.

[DeadVic]

I have a Navigator coming off lease in three months. If anyone wants to help swap that motor out into the MM before I turn it in, let me know...:D

I doubt anyone at the dealer would notice the difference...:coolman:

[SergntMac]

I have a Navigator coming off lease in three months. If anyone wants to help swap that motor out into the MM before I turn it in, let me know...:D I doubt anyone at the dealer would notice the difference... Thanks, Dead, but it won't fit. If it could, 'da cops would have bought a "highway motor" option years ago like they did even more years before that. They didn't 'cause there isn't any way...Generous offer though, thanks!

[peterlocal22]

Its been a long time but has there been more success today, ten years later with better technology etc for building a big bore stroker 4.6 teksid?

[jsignorelli]

I made a 347 Bore & Stroke on my 1989 5.0 Mustang LX Coupe, with a Novi 2000 blower. I then had to add a full roll cage due to the HP and quarter times.
I then did a 331 Bore & Stroke on my 1993 Mustang GT Hatch, with a Vortech V-7 blower. I then had to add a roll bar behind the front seats, because of the HP and quarter times..
I then did the 2004 Marauder with a 5.4 Stroker kit. I intend to add a whipple as soon as I find one available, with the required intakes. I will not add a roll cage to this beauty.

[MOTOWN]

Talk about an old thread! I honestly think this whole BBS motor thing is the biggest waste of money you can possibly throw at a 4.6L DOHC motor, all you need is a forged 4.6L and you are good to go , maybe a set of fully ported and polished heads if you are in the 700 to 800rwhp range or above. **and of course a big azz blower**

[dohc324ci]

Unless you live in Cali. A big azz blower is a no go. Agree a forged 4.6 and a Vortech setup would have been the way to go looking back on my setup. I did the whole BBS, HCI lots of coin later no appetite for another 6k for a blower...lol one day

[Spectragod]

Stroker and a twin screw, I make 263rwhp.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Stroker and a twin screw, I make 263rwhp.

Yeah, Each wheel rwhp :D

[Lowndex]

Unless you live in Cali. A big azz blower is a no go. Agree a forged 4.6 and a Vortech setup would have been the way to go looking back on my setup. I did the whole BBS, HCI lots of coin later no appetite for another 6k for a blower...lol one day

ADTR is your friend!

[Lowndex]

KC, BRG Racing, will be rebuilding my busted 4.6L stock motor with all forged internals. The motor will be for sale in 2016.

Why didn't I use my rebuilt stock motor? Because,
* I wanted more power, whether I need it or not
* I am busting my cherry - this is my first front-to-back rebuild project
* It's fun!

[RubberCtyRauder]

Your stock motor rebuilt with upgraded internals would have provided the same HP that you will be able to legally obtain on nazifornia for siginificantly less $$..just sayin..stroked motors are not always the best choice for boost , pending compression ratio etc.. although there are members here with them

[RubberCtyRauder]

KC, BRG Racing, will be rebuilding my busted 4.6L stock motor with all forged internals. The motor will be for sale in 2016.

Why didn't I use my rebuilt stock motor? Because,
* I wanted more power, whether I need it or not
* I am busting my cherry - this is my first front-to-back rebuild project
* It's fun!


Better make sure it is reasonably priced to sell when completed..You are in a high cost area..which raises cost to build it and harder to recoup it.

[Spectragod]

Yeah, Each wheel rwhp :D

Well........ Yeah there's that little item I may have left out.:rolleyes::D

[Lowndex]

Better make sure it is reasonably priced to sell when completed..You are in a high cost area..which raises cost to build it and harder to recoup it.

I am not concerned with resell value. I am doing this project for my enjoyment. If I ever sell the car, I expect to receive very little ROI.

I understood choosing a 5.3L Stroker allowed use of lower compression yielding similar power = longer life.

[Lowndex]

Your stock motor rebuilt with upgraded internals would have provided the same HP that you will be able to legally obtain on nazifornia for siginificantly less $$..just sayin..stroked motors are not always the best choice for boost , pending compression ratio etc.. although there are members here with them

Completely understand. I would do the same all over again,........, minus the Ford Racing motor part. Like one of you told me, enjoy the journey.

[RubberCtyRauder]

Completely understand. I would do the same all over again,........, minus the Ford Racing motor part. Like one of you told me, enjoy the journey.

As long as you are enjoying it now past the FRPP motor stuff. That's what matters in the long run

[BUCKWHEAT]

I have a 4.6 w/ stroker. it takes more boost to stuff the bigger displacement. fortunately for me, the Trilogy, with a porting job, added the PSI/volume necessary to feed the stroker. The S/C cams and springs allowed higher RPM on the stroked forged motor than stock, so the bottom line seems to be a longer, higher flatter torque curve. And, so far reliability, and better strip times. Cost? yes, but who wants a Chebby motor anyway?