xCal2, Superchips 1725, Diablosport Predator questions...

[Ozz]

Sorry to ask a question that has been tossed around for a long time but I am a relative newbie and can't seem to make sense of the tuner threads that I've read. Can somebody explain the capabilities of the popular tuners (xCal 2, Predator, Superchips 1725, 9100)?

I know that Lidio and Reinhart both tune with the SCT xCal2. What about Diablosport and Superchips 1725 &/or 9100? Does anyone have a Marauder tune that works with them?

What about the performance programs that come with a new xCal, Predator and Superchips 1725 & 9100 from the manufacturer - are they decent? Can the programs on all four tuners mentioned be 'tweaked' by the end user?

I am under the inpression that the 1725 does not have any program loaded on it when it's new - is this the case? I've seen mention of the Superchips 9100 several times but little mention of the 1725 that Superchips lists on their website for MM's... What does the 9100 do that the 1725 does not?

Thanks,
ozz

[MarauderMarc]

I have the 1725.....dont get it. It did add power and it is better (ALOT BETTER) than stock, but I just found out last week that I cannot adjust my air/fuel ratio with it. Since I have done a few mods, my ratio has changed and I cannot change it. I am burning too lean right now. My advice would be to get either the Xcal2, the Predator, or possibly the SCT swith chip. the others, IMO, are cookie cutter tunes and wont be useful to you in the long run.

[Ozz]

So the xCal 2, Predator let you adjust A/F ratio? Can you do that yourself without a dyno &/or wideband O2 sensors? Please explain.
I don't plan mods - I just want something that comes with a tune that adds a little power and tweaks the shift points/pressures. I would like to be able to store the tune that comes with the unit and play around with shift points, etc myself and then go back to the tune that came with the box if necessary. It almost looks like the 1725 would do that for me... I can get it much cheaper than the xCal 2 or Predator...
Do any MM.net vendors have a Marauder specific tune for the 1725?
Thanks.

[Blackened300a]

I had the Superchips 1725 in my car as soon as I got it. It made a nice improvement over stock as far as power. After installing it, It even made the engine sound move lively. However IMO, The Shift patterns took alot of trial and error to get right, There is a SuperChips setting that allows you to program the settings that Superchips feel are the most optimal for your car. With those settings, The Shifts felt sloppy, the shift schedule had me shifting too early from 1st-2nd. and overdrive came in at less then 40mph while normal driving. After I did the 4.10's I used the tuner to set the speedometer and the shift points to compensate for the gear change. Well My Speedo was correct but I would be in 4th gear by 28mph the way the tuner had set it up. I think if you are going to go for a tuner, I suggest getting a SCT tune by one of the Vendors here. It will really wake the car up and if you decide to mod later on, The Vendor can send you a updated File to get the most out of your Mod. The 1725 I seen for almost $400, For a little less you'll get a SCT tune thats far more effective.
Hope this helped

[Ozz]

Yes, any information is helpful.
Do all the popular tuners allow you to change the same parameters or do some allow you to change more?

Also, if I were to get an xCal from Lidio or Reinhart and wanted to change a shift point or something, could i do it myself with the hand held or would i have to go through them to change something??? :confused:

[Blackened300a]

Yes, any information is helpful.
Do all the popular tuners allow you to change the same parameters or do some allow you to change more?

Also, if I were to get an xCal from Lidio or Reinhart and wanted to change a shift point or something, could i do it myself with the hand held or would i have to go through them to change something??? :confused:

You get your file e-mailed to you from your vendor and you go on SCT's Website and download a Program which lets you modify the file and then install it into the Xcal from your home PC. The Vendor can send you different files to install through e-mail per request.

[merc6]

yep I purchased the xcal2 tuner and antiously await my cars arrival to VA so I can use it. I had issues with the tranny excessively downshifting when it wanted to but not when I wanted it to.

[HwyCruiser]

The Predator will let you adjust WOT fuel and timing up a little bit and down a bunch for two rpm ranges, 0-4000 and 4000 and up IIRC. It will also let you adjust neutral and drive idle and rev limiters and individual WOT shift rpm points. There's some other stuff that I haven't messed with but it's your basic test & tune stuff.

Anything more than that and you'll want a competent tuner make the adjustments for you, such as low load shift points and torque converter lockup schedule changes. Many of us Diablo guys have purchased lifetime adjustment services from a tuner in the Midwest, the same guy who dialed in my MAF table this summer on the dyno.

I've had both the SCT9100 (through DR when I was still N/A) and now the Diablo Predator (through FIT now that I'm S/C'ed) and a lot of the satisfaction is in the willingness of the tuner to make adjustments to his base tune. DR took care of me and now my Diablo tuner is doing the same. I've heard of many positives from the Alternative Auto customers. IMHO it's not so much the box but the support behind it.

[Ozz]

OK, so what I gather here is that the Diablosport and xCal allow you to tweak A/F ratio a little while the Superchips 1725 does not. Also, they all let you change the WOT shift points but if you want to change partial throttle shift points, you have to get a vendor to do that and then email you the program...
Are these correct statements?

So is it correct to say that no matter what tuner I go with (xCal2, Diablosport, or a Superchips 1725), I am probably going to want to adjust something (low speed shift points, etc) that will require a vendor to do it for me?

Is it acceptable to most vendors for me to acquire the tuner elsewhere and pay them to change a parameter? I ask because I have a lead on a used tuner and want to make sure that I won't have a hard time getting parameters adjusted later...

THANKS!!!

[merc6]

From what I am reading and hearing you can do minor things and venders can do medium to major changes and just email them to you right?

[TooManyFords]

Re: Predator...

If you have a BMD0 and have it flashed to the latest L/M upgrade (as of 05/30/05), your Predator will no longer work on your Marauder.

I know, and as of just a few minutes ago on the diablo website I see that the same file (r50d) is still posted so it does NOT have the required Cal_ID to overcome this.

I tried for months on end to get them to support it and I see they are just not responsive.

Remember, YMMV...

John
(an unhappy Diablo customer turned SCT supporter)

[Blackened300a]

From what I am reading and hearing you can do minor things and venders can do medium to major changes and just email them to you right?

Correct! The Vendor has a Program that can adjust every engine parameter (Spark advance,A/F Mixture,Timing) and they can do this through the entire powerband. They have the tune they sent you on file and they can adjust it according to the way you want your car to feel. SCT offers a Program to download that allows YOU to change a few things such as ,Shift Pressure,Shift Points,A/F mixture,Timing,tire sizes and Gear ratio's for the speedo. However, if you do not know what you are looking at or what to do, you may do more harm then good.
Vendors will get your Car within 95-98% of perfect. If there is a place near by you that can provide SCT tuning on a dyno along with selling you the Xcal or the Xcal2 as a package. I say Go for it. The Vendors are good at tuning but nothing is more dead on then having the car tuned on a dyno

[Ozz]

TMF,
Thanks for the info on Predator... I do have a BMD0 computer. Is it common knowledge that Predators with the latest software do not work on Marauders w/ BMD0 computers? Can anything be done?

THANKS

[TooManyFords]

Not all BMD0's have this problem. Only if you have L/M flash your computer since 5/30/05 for sure. It may have happened sooner, but that's when mine was done and exhibited the problem. The new flash puts a cal ID of RZASAM5 in the PCM and the Predator kicks that out as unknown. It's been 6 months since I first tried getting them to fix this and it has not been touched.

In all fairness, if you are running the original flash on the PCM, you're probably OK.

Again, YMMV...

John

[MarauderMarc]

What is YMMV???

[Blackened300a]

What is YMMV???

Good Question Your Mommy Makes Vanilla?? You Make Me Vomit??? Your Marauder Makes Vrrrooms?? Your McDonalds My Vision??? You Make Muffins Vern???

I think it means Your Money My View Meaning its your money to spend on your choice but heres my opinion Im only Guessing

[TooManyFords]

YMMV : Your mileage may vary...

Cheers!

John

[Ozz]

OK, my PCM has not been reflashed since 5/30 (or ever as far as I know) so if I try a Predator, I should be alright.
I sent a question to Diablosport as well.... we'll see if I get an answer.

Thanks!

[StevenJ]

I have a SCT Xcalibratur I. The only thing you get with the Xcalibratur II is some extra diagnostic equipment and faster loading tunes. If you want to spend the extra $50 to get the new one, well fine. I got my tune from Lidio. After driving around with it for two three days or so I have to say he does a great job. I wouldn't go to Reinhart for a tune. I've heard some complaints people were having from his tunes. I also have a neighbor that has a Predator tune and his car runs well. He even went back to Diablo Motorsports to tune his car when he installed a trillogy supercharger.

[FordNut]

I have a SCT Xcalibratur I. The only thing you get with the Xcalibratur II is some extra diagnostic equipment and faster loading tunes. If you want to spend the extra $50 to get the new one, well fine. I got my tune from Lidio. After driving around with it for two three days or so I have to say he does a great job. I wouldn't go to Reinhart for a tune. I've heard some complaints people were having from his tunes. I also have a neighbor that has a Predator tune and his car runs well. He even went back to Diablo Motorsports to tune his car when he installed a trillogy supercharger.
I had a tune from Dennis and it was great, then a so-called "master tuner" re-tuned it and never could get the shifting right again.

[Architect]

I've waited and read all of the opinions posted here and finally decided to go with the SCT Xcalibrator 2 from Alternative Auto Performance...
Like many others, I wish I had done it sooner...
Someone said it before me..."This is the way this car should be..."
It really completed the car....by fixing all the little irratating items...like shifts
and dead spots...
Just my $.02....
Architect...

[Blackened300a]

I wouldn't go to Reinhart for a tune. I've heard some complaints people were having from his tunes.

Even Though I happen to agree with you, The Moderators dont take kindly to people bashing the Vedors in the Forums so chances are your post or the thread may be deleted.

[Ozz]

Please don't delete the thread... it's got a lot of useful info... it's just one person's opinion... :bows:

Can of worms - now open :rolleyes:

[Marauderjack]

For those with SCT 9100 tuners...You can make adjustments for this tuner as well using ".xtr" files supplied by a dealer.

I have "monkeyed" with my shift firmness and TC lockup extensively and for my driving style I like the TC to lock in 4th only at 50 MPH under light acceleration and unlocking at 40-45 MPH coasting down. This allows you to get into lockup around town if you wish and defeat lockup by switching the O/D button off.

BTW, I may offer my 9100 for sale if all goes well with the Diablo tune for my ProCharger?? I have a 2004 with a "MAV2" PCM. PM me if interested??

Marauderjack:D

[StevenJ]

I'm not bashing. If I were bashing, trust me you'd know. Don't get me wrong, Reinharts sell many excellent products for our cars and other Fords, I'm just going by what I heard. And if Rienharts reads this, well then I'm sorry but that's just what I heard.

[juno]

I do not know what you consider bashing a vendor but relating a factual experience with a vendor should not be considered bashing. I purchased my predator with their "marauder" tune and loaded it on my car. I did not notice any improvements in power, economy or driveability. I asked their tech support about this and specifically asked about their shift points and firmness. This was their response. ANSWER: Dear XXXXXXXXX The tune should add about 15-20 HP to the vehicle, however if you are having issues, there may be a calibration issue between your vehicle and the Predator which can be fixed through some custom tuning. You can get a custom tune by contacting an authorized DiabloSport ChipMaster revolution dealer near you: :down: :down: So, I spend about 450 dollars for their equipment and their tune. It does not work and their answer is to tell me to go pay for a custom tune somewhere? :mad2: That's my .02 on my DS experience so far, I am still waiting a response to my response to their response. :) I just wanted to relate my experience with DS before someone else wastes their hard earned money on them. If they resolve this issue, I will be let everyone know right away. YMMV :)

[HwyCruiser]

I'll say it again, the support behind the box is where the value is. But I'm sorry if you've had bad service from Diablo.

Just check the Diablo forum (or the SCT forum for that matter) at modularfords and you'll get the gist of trying to work issues through the corporate front door. I guess the fact that they even have a public forum there that's somewhat monitored means something.

After Tim's hard work to get the kit dialed in personally from Diablo's master tuner Scott Beer, our follow-up support is coming directly from a very responsive midwest tuner who knows us by name and has put seat time in my Marauder. That's what I'm talking about.

If you choose to get a tuner, get one from a tuner who's going to support his work. Whether it be Lidio, Dennis, or our guy, go to someone who answers their own phone. If you buy it off the net or mail order then good luck.

Just my 2 cents. :coffee:

[merc6]

I also got the lidio tune installed earlier today and on my 02 built MM the shifting issues were gone in liek a few blocks of driving. I also noticed that when I punched it it actualy downshifted! I never downshifted unless I was on highway. I have to say even w/o tweaking the features too much the stock tune was badass "out the box" My Q was is there really a limitationon on how many times you can go back stock?

[juno]

I'll say it again, the support behind the box is where the value is. But I'm sorry if you've had bad service from Diablo.

Just check the Diablo forum (or the SCT forum for that matter) at modularfords and you'll get the gist of trying to work issues through the corporate front door. I guess the fact that they even have a public forum there that's somewhat monitored means something.

After Tim's hard work to get the kit dialed in personally from Diablo's master tuner Scott Beer, our follow-up support is coming directly from a very responsive midwest tuner who knows us by name and has put seat time in my Marauder. That's what I'm talking about.

If you choose to get a tuner, get one from a tuner who's going to support his work. Whether it be Lidio, Dennis, or our guy, go to someone who answers their own phone. If you buy it off the net or mail order then good luck.

Just my 2 cents. :coffee: I am talking about DS, you are talking about your local tuner. So you are agreeing DS does not support their product???????

[HwyCruiser]

I am talking about DS, you are talking about your local tuner. So you are agreeing DS does not support their product???????


I purchased my predator with their "marauder" tune and loaded it on my car. I did not notice any improvements in power, economy or driveability. I asked their tech support about this and specifically asked about their shift points and firmness. This was their response. ANSWER: Dear XXXXXXXXX The tune should add about 15-20 HP to the vehicle, however if you are having issues, there may be a calibration issue between your vehicle and the Predator which can be fixed through some custom tuning. You can get a custom tune by contacting an authorized DiabloSport ChipMaster revolution dealer near you.

Let me try this again:

Where did you purchase your Predator? Last I looked Diablosport wasn't selling them directly to the public on their website. They rely on and support their dealers to handle customer support, as does Ford for that matter. I think your beef is with the person you exhanged money with.

Just because I have a Diablo tune in my car doesn't make me a fan of Diablosport, Inc. I'm a fan of FIT, of Diablo's master tuner Scott Beer for coming up with the custom tune for the Procharger application, and FIT's Diablo dealer / tech support who also comes with the kit. I'd be just as happy if the box said SCT on it if I got a good tune and good followup support. The Predator itself is just a peice of hardware, which is also pretty handy at letting me adjust various test and tune parameters.

If you'd like to salvage your investment in you Predator I'd be more than happy to get you in touch with our Diablo dealer. Maybe he can help, maybe he can't. If not, I'd be getting a refund from whoever you bought it from and get another brand of tuner... just please just go with one of the tuners we all know around here.

[jawz101]

what ever you buy I wouldn't suggest tweaking a professionally tweaked tune that you would receive. the benefits from an xcal2 or another tuner similar is the ability to read data logs and error codes. Just look at the pictures and see which on you like better. I like the fact that I can plug my xcal into a computer. Some day I might buy more parts and need a custom tune. I can send Dennis my log files or even have him remote into a pc that's connected to my car as it runs diagnostics (he's told me he would do that too-- paid, of course) The possibilities are a little more well off w/ one that has more communication features. On the other hand I just saw a DR plugs/chip/thermo combo on ebay for a starting bid of 25 bucks. I guess you can make the call on chip vs. tuners. As for the XCal2, I had it installed about a yr ago, got about 13/mpg after tune but I'd say that was more due to the fact that I've been driving like a bat out of hell since then. DR gave me a more conservative tune but again I just compensated with my foot on the floor driving. I'd say you're going to have fun w/ what ever you get. Just price shop around & know that Lidio or Dennis are going to help you a long the way. I'd say buy from either of them, in my opinion. They know what you're driving and won't give you some generic tune. If they did it would be a generic tried-and-true tune for the Marauder.

Also, XCal2 software is clunky and still a work in progress, as it seems. They have no help files built w/ the software and it just seems like an engineers pieced-together homework project. Go to their site and download it to see for yourself. Hopefully they'll get it working better.

[juno]

Let me try this again:

Where did you purchase your Predator? Last I looked Diablosport wasn't selling them directly to the public on their website. They rely on and support their dealers to handle customer support, as does Ford for that matter. I think your beef is with the person you exhanged money with.

Just because I have a Diablo tune in my car doesn't make me a fan of Diablosport, Inc. I'm a fan of FIT, of Diablo's master tuner Scott Beer for coming up with the custom tune for the Procharger application, and FIT's Diablo dealer / tech support who also comes with the kit. I'd be just as happy if the box said SCT on it if I got a good tune and good followup support. The Predator itself is just a peice of hardware, which is also pretty handy at letting me adjust various test and tune parameters.

If you'd like to salvage your investment in you Predator I'd be more than happy to get you in touch with our Diablo dealer. Maybe he can help, maybe he can't. If not, I'd be getting a refund from whoever you bought it from and get another brand of tuner... just please just go with one of the tuners we all know around here.


Yes, I bought it directly from DS after conversing with them on the phone specifically about the Marauder tune. That is why I am so disappointed in their product support. I did not speak to Scott, but the success some people have had with the FIT kit and his tune was one of the reasons I purchased a Predator. My plans were to live with this tune until I installed a power adder. I was going to have DS do a custom tune after the power adder since they are so close to me. If you know of any tuner who has a NA tune for the Predator I would appreciate any info.

[03whitemach]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Diablo or SCT, check with your local tuner or with Lidio and Dennis, see what they use and/or support and go with it. The support after the tune is the most important part of a tune, especially if you plan on modding.
Also, you know what they say about opinions, they are like Aholes, everybodies got one. Make your own opinions of our vendors. There are more satisfied customers than dissatisfied customers in any business, but its always the dissatisfied that get the attention, because they make more noise, trying to get people to listen.
Like someone said, they heard a rumor, well they also heard good rumors, but those aren't repeated.. Doesn't make sense..
Yes, I am defending Dennis, because I believe in him and what he has done for the MM community, and I don't even own a MM. But, he has done all the work on my Mach.
Sorry for being longwinded but that just gets my goat, about rumors.