Dual Alternators

[Rider90]

Think this would work for an MM?

http://www.mtgparts.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ALT-MNT-03&Category_Code=AA

http://www.mtgparts.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/130amp.jpg
http://www.mtgparts.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/p35.jpg

[Bradley G]

Just supercharge your alternator!:P

[Rider90]

Just supercharge your alternator!:P
According to a very reputable shop, they cannot boost the power on our alternator due to the shallow casing.

[Bradley G]

How about a Police/ Interceptor alternator, isn't that one have More amps?
I was funnin ya about the s/c alternator Pal!

[Rider90]

How about a Police/ Interceptor alternator, isn't that one have More amps?
I was funnin ya about the s/c alternator Pal!
Different alternators. I already compared it to a CV alternator...and the alt. shop already covered that one.

[fastblackmerc]

Why? :confused: :confused:

[Rider90]

Why? :confused: :confused:
This is why. (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=221) This helps too. (http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=9)

[SergntMac]

I got the same crap in my trunk, Jason, 800 watts of JL power and two JL 10" subs with no problems. I did come to replace my OEM battery, only to learn that it was 4 years old too, and I'm comfortable with that.

Maybe you should get a second opinion on your professional install?

Call 708.396.2000, ask for Thomas. Tell him you own a Marauder, describe your install, and mention that I suggested you call him for help.

This is a guaranteed fix.

[RoyLPita]

Something like that would be for Limousines. I see no real use for it.

Just my .02 and then some.

[jgc61sr2002]

Something like that would be for Limousines. I see no real use for it.

Just my .02 and then some.




I tend to agree. ^^^^^

[David Morton]

I'm with the others. Something else has got to be wrong. Do you have an underdrive pulley? How old is the battery? What condition is the positive battery to buss cables in?

A 1000 watt system is only drawing 80 amps. The only time the system would be in deficit would be on a hot rainy night, (A/C on, W/S wipers and headlamps on) and put the foot on the brake. All this while you have it cranked up to the maximun volume.

[merc6]

what about a few capasitors?

[rookie1]

what about a few capasitors?

There are 2 schools of thought on stiffening capacitors, 1: They actually work and can help with lights dimming under load. 2: They don't work and were dreamed up by the marketing boys to increase revenue and add bling to installations by including volt meters, blinking lights, and cool looking extruded aluminum housings with the capacitor bodies.

I subscribe to school number 2. I've installed these things b4 and I detect no noticeable difference. The problem with lights dimming can be helped by a couple of things. Remember that this is a problem with current flow.

1: Make sure you use properly gauged wire from your battery and to your ground point.

2: If you've used heavy guage wire and the problem persists, I recommend doing the Big Three, I've pasted some info for you below and you can check out this link
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f =5;t=007801;p=

3: If the problem persists after these 2 options replace the factory battery with an aftermarket one. Optime Yellow Tops are popular with the thump thump boys.

Hopefully this clears up most of the questions you had about why we upgrade the "Big 3" and how it helps to stop dimming and other electrical problems. If not, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.As many of you know, upgrading the "Big 3" wires in your engine compartment can lower the overall resistance of your entire electrical system. The effects of the lower resistance are typically:

1) Reduced dimming and smaller voltage drops
2) More stable voltage and better current flow
3) Less strain on your vehicle's charging system

So for those of you looking for a cheap and easy way to upgrade your system and help out your electrical system without adding a high output alternator or an aftermarket battery, this is the modification for you. If you have heavy dimming or are getting large voltage drops during loud bass hits, but you don't have the money to spend on a high output alternator or a battery, upgrading your vehicle's "Big 3" will usually help to reduce and sometimes even eliminate the problems. So without further ado, the "Big 3" wires are:

1) Battery negative to chassis
2) Alternator to battery positive
3) Chassis to engine

Now, I suppose it would help if I explained what each of these wires does, and to do that I would like to paraphrase an explanation by IMTfox from a while ago: Think of your vehicle's charging system as two different circuits, one consisting of your amplifier and your battery, and the other consisting of your alternator and your battery. The current in your electrical system flows from your positive battery terminal to your amp, from your amp's ground to the chassis, and then from the chassis back to the negative battery terminal. But how does it get to the positive terminal in the first place? That's where the alternator comes in. Current in the second circuit flows from your alternator's positive post to the battery's positive terminal, then from the battery's negative terminal to the chassis, and from the chassis back to the block, which happens to be the grounding point for your alternator.

So, from your battery, you have the power wire going to the power terminal on your amplifier and then your amplifier is grounded to the chassis of the vehicle. From here the current needs a way to get back to the negative battery terminal, and that way is through the first of the "Big 3," the battery negative to chassis wire. Upgrading this wire will "upgrade" the circuit between your battery and your amp by giving the current a larger path to flow through to get back to the battery.

Now, think of your alternator as the battery and your battery as the amp. From the positive post on your alternator, you have the second of the "Big 3," the alternator to battery positive wire supplying "power" to your battery. From there the battery, just like your amp, is grounded to the chassis through the wire mentioned in the previous paragraph. Again, the current needs a way to get from the chassis back to the alternator's "negative terminal" and that way is through the last of the "Big 3," the chassis to engine wire. Since your alternator is most likely mounted to your engine block using a metal or conductive mounting bracket, you can simply add your new wire from the chassis to one of the mounting posts for the alternator. Upgrading these two wires will "upgrade" the circuit between your alternator and your battery, again giving the current a larger path to flow through.

[fastblackmerc]

Good 411!! Thanks!

[David Morton]

Rookie1, you sound like a technician. I agree completely with your assesment of the capacitor issue, just get a bigger battery and good cables. Here's just a couple of tweaks to your good info I learned from Special Electronics Training school in Atlanta at the General Motors Training School.

1) There's three more important wires to complete a good electrical system: 1- Battery negative to engine, 2- body to chassis, (these two complete the triad ground, body, chassis, engine and give redundancy) and 3- the other I mentioned before, Battery positive to main buss. Well engineered systems often have several positive cables coming directly from the battery, one to the starter, one to the main buss (usually nowadays the maxi fuse center under the hood) and then one to the inside fuse box.

2) DC current likes fine wire. Cheap cables made with thick wire strands don't carry current like cables made with fine strands of wire. So use a cable that has the finest strands of wire in the cable you can get, positive and negative, and don't skimp on size in order to save weight. This characterisitc of DC current is another good reason to complete the triad ground.

[Rider90]

A 1000 watt system is only drawing 80 amps. The only time the system would be in deficit would be on a hot rainy night, (A/C on, W/S wipers and headlamps on) and put the foot on the brake. All this while you have it cranked up to the maximun volume.
We tested the alternator and battery tonight. Battery was doing great, and at idle the alternator put out 65/70 amps and at 2000 RPM it was pushing 125/130 - which is normal. My 1000 watt system does not only draw 80 amps, and I have the blown 100 amp fuse to prove it. I need to run a 150 amp fuse for this amplifier to function at a decently loud volume, or else the fuse blows. I can't explain it, I'm no electrician, but Tweeter installed the 100 amp fuse and I came back shortly after with a blown fuse. They did some research, made some phone calls, and voila! A 150 amp fuse was in order. IIRC, per the owners manual, they too suggest a 100 amp fuse - but it sure is drawing more than that.

[SergntMac]

We tested the alternator and battery tonight. Battery was doing great, and at idle the alternator put out 65/70 amps and at 2000 RPM it was pushing 125/130 - which is normal. My 1000 watt system does not only draw 80 amps, and I have the blown 100 amp fuse to prove it. I need to run a 150 amp fuse for this amplifier to function at a decently loud volume, or else the fuse blows. I can't explain it, I'm no electrician, but Tweeter installed the 100 amp fuse and I came back shortly after with a blown fuse. They did some research, made some phone calls, and voila! A 150 amp fuse was in order. IIRC, per the owners manual, they too suggest a 100 amp fuse - but it sure is drawing more than that. 150 amp fuse here, original fuse from first install two years ago, no problems. If you are still having problems, again, call Thomas at 708.396.2000.

[Rider90]

I may be switching to a clutch-less alternator pulley, small diamater at that, just for the hell of spending $20.00. I've heard nothing good about the clutch pullies except that they fail, and there is a huge pile of them at the alternator shop in Morton Grove for that very reason. I also have a chance at a free capacitor, I'll give that a shot. I'll probably resort to dual batteries before a rebuilt alternator, sounds much more cost effective.

[FordNut]

I have looked at 200 amp alternators from 3 different suppliers. My results are as follows:

1) Our car uses a 4G alternator with an integral regulator which is controlled by the PCM with a PWM signal.
2) '98 Cobras use a 4G alternator which has an integral regulator which works the old-fashioned way.
3) Both regulators attach to the alternator the same way.
4) PA-Performance at one time offered to make a 200 amp alternator for our car at about $600, but the latest contact I have made they have changed their mind. They do offer the '98 cobra style in 200 amp.
5) TuffStuff will sell you a 200 amp alternator but it has the '98 style regulator and they don't believe you when you tell them it won't work on a Marauder. Even though I bought one, installed it, wouldn't work, returned for refund, they still don't believe it doesn't work and will sell them to you all day long.
6) PowerMaster offered to build one at about $500 each and I posted a thread about a GP on it, but nobody wanted it. Now when I try to buy one for myself, they won't even return calls. They also offer one for the '98 Cobras.
7) PowerMaster did tell me that there is no reason you couldn't take the regulator from a stock alternator and install it on the 200 amp Cobra alternator. Should work.
8) My recommendation is to get a TuffStuff 4G 200 amp alternator off ebay for about $150 (I believe that's even chrome plated) and swap the regulator from the old alternator. Whoever does it, post results please!

Hope this is helpful.

[MENINBLK]

According to a very reputable shop, they cannot boost the power on our alternator due to the shallow casing.

There are 200 - 300 Amp Alternators available for our vehicles.
They just have to know where to look...

American Armature NITRO II
http://www.americanarmature.com/police.htm

High Output Alternators sells the American Armature 12V 240A and 18V 300A alternators.
http://www.highoutputalternator.com/alternators.htm

[looking97233]

Has anybody looked into an alt. for an ambulance from ford? And if so is it the same kind but bigger?


Also the reason for the 100 amp fuse blowing is that amplifiers aren't all that efficent. 1000watts /12 volts= 83.3 amps at 100% eff., however all that heat comming from the amp is the extra power used.

Rod.

[FordNut]

Has anybody looked into an alt. for an ambulance from ford? And if so is it the same kind but bigger?


Also the reason for the 100 amp fuse blowing is that amplifiers aren't all that efficent. 1000watts /12 volts= 83.3 amps at 100% eff., however all that heat comming from the amp is the extra power used.

Rod.
The DOHC engine was not used on any ambulance applications. Nor Police... The CVPI and ambulance alternators will not physically fit the engine brackets.

Not to mention the unusual (unique) regulator control scheme.

[David Morton]

Actually I was doing the math on 12.5v which is minimum with everything on, something to see at idle on a charging system with maximum drain, not losing, not gaining. 12.5v is actually not good for your battery, a well regulated alternator should be doing 14.7v minimum measured at the battery with everything off except the ignition. Our guage is not very accurate for this diagnostic purpose. And one thing I didn't account for is the fact that sound system manufacturers don't use this wattage figure for the wattage drain but instead for what the output of the systems' speakers are doing, and with the heat dissipation and equalizer drain, I guess your system could be draining a lot more than I thought.

I wouldn't go with the clutchless pulley if I could get away with it though. It's there to save the belt from the inertial tendency of the alternator stator to push the belt loose and throw it off when we make those 6000 to 3800 rpm sudden decreases from a WOT 1-2 shift.

Maybe you could increase system storage capacity with a dual battery setup, maybe located in the trunk. Just use good cables. And use an isolator, or get used to buying batteries in matched pairs. Without an isolator it's very important that both batteries be well matched and have the same internal resistance.

[rookie1]

b4 u spend a whole bunch of $$$$$, spend $100-$150 or so for an OPTIMA Yellowtop Battery. #D31 will fit(currently have one in my car). It is a deep cycle battery designed to be drawn down and recharged repeatedly. I replaced my OEM battery with this and it has done wonders for start up and lights dimming.

[Rider90]

Add in a one farad capacitor, and back to the drawing board :rolleyes:

I'm grounding to the inner trunk sheet metal. Next step is to relocate that to a frame, and if that's the problem, be prepared for the most angry and joyus reaction...

[rookie1]

Add in a one farad capacitor, and back to the drawing board :rolleyes:

I'm grounding to the inner trunk sheet metal. Next step is to relocate that to a frame, and if that's the problem, be prepared for the most angry and joyus reaction...

The studs for the bottom cushion of the rear seat make a good ground with some judicious use of sandpaper. As far as adding the capacitor,....I put one in because I had one laying around, I still think that their usefulness is questionable and they were dreamed up by the marketing departments.
Did you try a yellow top yet?

[Rider90]

The studs for the bottom cushion of the rear seat make a good ground with some judicious use of sandpaper. As far as adding the capacitor,....I put one in because I had one laying around, I still think that their usefulness is questionable and they were dreamed up by the marketing departments.
Did you try a yellow top yet?
No yellow top yet, I'll try a better ground, then I'll wire up two new batteries...we'll go from there...I think the dual batteries will do the trick.

[ckadiddle]

A 1000 watt subwoofer amp? WooHoo! More Power!!!