Marauder Quality Survey: Please read post before voting.

[Smokie]

It has been almost 3 1/2 years since the Marauder first went on sale, so I will like to ask all those people that own or have owned a Marauder to rate the Quality of your vehicle. You are either satisfied with the quality of your car, or you are not.

Please do not vote based on whether you like this club or not, or anything related to the friends you made here. YOUR car and only YOUR car, ok? I am not asking if you NEVER had a problem or if you have car trouble every other week.

Either the QUALITY of your car meet or exceeds your expectations or it doesn't. Yes or No.

This poll WILL NOT BE PUBLIC, I want maximum feedback and some folks will hold back for fear of being criticized.

If you wish to share your experiences good or bad by all means do so, but when voting please use the guidelines.

Thank You All.

[Rider90]

In nearly 30k miles, let me describe ALL of my troubles:

Two LEDs & One Light-Bulb.

:bows:

[Mike Poore]

The clutch pack in my '04 was locked and was replaced within a month of delivery. It took a week to get the parts, meanwhile they gave me a new Town Car to drive, and the it's rear was fixed, good as new.

[Mad4Macs]

Lessee here, by the time I hit 44000 miles;
3 transmission rebuilds
2 defective axles
1 rear diff leak (a bad one, left a puddle overnight)
And a partridge in a... wrong song, sorry.
Hood squeaks, which took 2 trips to the dealer to identify.
Faulty front links (whatever they are), which required another 2 trips to the dealer.
Surging, fixed by a PCM update.
Hood latch failed completely.
Car has a seemingly unpredictable stall, hasn't happened in a while though.
At 2 years old, the paint is FAR worse than my 6 year old Taurus's was.
Let's just say that this car has been less reliable than my winter beater, a 15 year old Mazda Protege with over 200,000 miles. Outside of the normal maintenance items, plus a clutch, alternator and a radiator, that little Mazda has been without fault.
<Rant Off>

[Pat]

I feel guilty for saying this, but I've had no problems with my Marauder. Nada, zilch.

I drive faster than traffic, usually. Drag race once a month with nitrous, I've serviced the car as per manual, wheel alignment and tire changes are routine maintenance as far as I'm concerned, not problems.

Transmission, rear end and engine are performing as advertised. Gas consumption is more than I would like, but then my right foot weighs 127 lbs. Mine's an 04, silve birch, with moon roof, built in Feb 04, bought in July 04 new. Nearly 17K on the clock.

My #3 son borrows it from time to time so's he and his wife can take their friends to a nite out on the town. He just loves it.

[Pat]

In nearly 30k miles, let me describe ALL of my troubles:

Two LEDs & One Light-Bulb.

:bows:

Rider90; I KNOW why your car is trouble free. You keep it so clean and waxed so deep that evil can't penetrate and cause problems.

[Smokie]

I don't expect these numbers to be statistically significant until we have at least 200 responses, however the current 80/20 ratio is not good, I am aware that usually the unhappy are more responsive to an opportunity to vent; but a 20% negative rating seems bad to me.

My expectations prior to releasing the survey were about 8% negative.

[whoskal]

moisture in the headlights. but other than that everything is tip top

[Bootlegger]

Very happy with the 03, and the 04..

[Paul T. Casey]

It ticks, has damp lights, thin paint, but I'm in the satisfied category. Nary a non-self induced problem and I haven't really "babied" it. 110,000 miles today, and she's as strong as ever.

[Rider90]

Rider90; I KNOW why your car is trouble free. You keep it so clean and waxed so deep that evil can't penetrate and cause problems.
LOL...So do you have pictures to E-mail me er what?? :D

[JamesHecker]

Moisture in the headlights
Factory front end settings caused abnormal front tire wear
Lazy passenger power window (sometimes doesn't work)
Horrible paint!
Other annoyances

All that and I am still satisfied!

I love this car!

[Cobra25]

I for one am happy with the car.

[texascorvette]

Don't know what it will be like when it comes out of the car hospital after being rear-ended by a poor, misunderstood, down-trodden, abused, no-insurance, but surely well-intentioned hit-and-run driver who surely must be here legally from south of the border. (Logan won't let you identify them by any of the commonly used, but more accurate names), but for 11 months--and nearly 19,000 miles--I've enjoyed the Marauder.

Never had a car with so many squeaks and rattles, but there have been no extremely galling problems other than tire and brake wear. The biggest complaint I have so far is the cheesy moon roof--but it's the same piece-of-crap moon roof that is on my wife's expedition. Ford obviously went with the low bidder on that one!!!! I love the car, but, knowing how complicated the Marauder is, I went for the 100,000 mile extended warrantee.

[CRUZTAKER]

I voted YES.

All of the good expectations out way the one poor mark.

The paint. The paint sucks.

Paint is fixable.;)

[Marauder2005]

Had alot of the problems TransAm, all with in the 6,000-11,000 mi area.

but she is at 17000 now and Im glad all that was cleaned out of her system.

I look forward to a reliable car from now on. Im happy :)

[DEFYANT]

I am a happy customer. No problems to report.

[TooManyFords]

My Marauder has had only one warranty claim, the rear seat lights fell out. One TSB claim on the rear axle bearings and that was repaired when I added 4:30's.

The only thing I didn't claim was that the engine block has too many holes in it and the rods are peeking out. I finally ordered a new shortblock today so that is considered "fixed".

John

[Big House]

Bought her with 36000 on the clock in Feb and have over 51 now and had't had one problem. She runs 14.4's and gets nearly 400 highway miles to the tank. I wish I could convience my wife to buy another one for her to drive.

[Shaft333]

Moisture in headlight - fixed
Terrible paint - supposedly "normal"
Trans cable rub on steering column - fixed
Oil leak - fixed
Rattle in headliner - blamed on sunglasses, rattle still there without sunglasses
Engine idle too low to maintain steady light
Rattles in various trim components

I said it once and I'll say it again, this is my last Ford. Working in the industry doesn't help my opinion of them either.

[Mad4Macs]

Forgot one!
When the car was new, I'd come out in the morning to find my brake lamps had been lit all night!
Can't remember what the fix was.

[FastMerc]

Usual front end alignment,of course the paint.Only warrantee so far is 2 lighted seat switches on doors.Blown speaker fixed before delivery:D

[jgc61sr2002]

I also had moisture in the headlights and the battery went DOA.

[MM2004]

Since I found out what a MM was, I have always wanted one. My Dad had a ’69 X-100 and both of us loved that car. It is since long gone, and once I heard of the MM coming back in ’03, I knew this was the car for me but could not afford it.

Finally, I obtained my ’04 DTR due to $10,500.00 in rebates and $12,000.00 trade-in allowance.

I could not be happier.

Oil gage condensation,
Heated seat switch blinking,
Parking brake pedal sticks,
Driver’s power mirror not working properly,
Blue smoke at start-up,
Rough idle when cold,
Paint sucks,
Shift points suck (corrected by Lidio).

My L/M dealership takes great care of me when I drop her off. This not my daily driver any longer, so impact is minimal when issues need to be addressed.

Mike.

[mcb26]

Yes catagory
Blinking driver heater switch
moisture in headlights
cold solder joints on radio.
All replaces under warrenty

I may have the tick,though its not as loud others Ive had. Every FMC product I've ever had had a valve tap.
Only car I had without it blew. Every other one went well over 100k.

Don't know if its still true on modern motors or not, but Red Farmer told me in the 70's " If a Ford motor ain't clattering, your not getting the max HP out of it." He won a lot of races at Huntsville Speedway with a 351 torino that smoked and sounded like every moving part was fixin to come thru the side of the block.:)

[Mad4Macs]

The poll/question asked wasn't "Do you like your Marauder?", it was "Are you happy with the quality of it?".
The simple fact that I still own mine proves that I like it, but if I said I thought it provided the level of quality I'd expect from a $30000 + vehicle, the answer is "HELL NO!".
If folks can rattle off a dozen flaws with their cars, yet say how happy they're with the quality the vehicle, it's no reason why American cars consistantly rate below the foriegn competetion.
Carry on :D

[ncmm]

:D besides the blue smoke issue, thin paint and one service call for the horn going off when you touched any button on the steering wheel, I can say I love my Marauder, I just wish it came in Dark Highland Green like my Bullitt!
:burnout:
HaPpY ThAnKsGiViNg!!! :beer:

[mpearce]

I am very happy with my car. I have had no problems...knock on wood. I have 9,000 miles, and great paint...very shiny, no orange peel, no swirls. I am 100% satisfied.

-Mat

[Marauder386]

Voted on the yes side ... paint issue to be solved in the spring with all of them.

:coolman:

[Smokie]

First 100 votes in less than 24 hours. The last Marauder owner type survey found a total of 283 owners, we lost some and gained others since.

I am hoping that we can muster up at least 300 replies. The negative ratio has declined slightly from 20% to 15% still much higher than my anticipated 8%.

It would be nice if when is all done the quality approval reaches at least 90%, but it looks otherwise so far.

[Smokie]

What I've found very eye-opening is the number of people who have reported satisfied with the quality but have listed some pretty serious problems nonetheless. As mentioned in a previous post, I think this shows that we (as a group of enthusiasts) have come to accept this kind of quality from our automakers, however I can't see the general population being as tolerant.

That is why I did not ask if you like or love the car, I wanted to have an idea how it would rate when the word quality was used.

Two observations on my part; 1: Son #1 is a master wrench at a Lexus dealership and makes a fine living repairing broken Lexus. What Japanese manufacturers call "routine maintenace" is called a repair across the street at Ford. I have seen $1200 invoices for "maintenance".

2: I am at a point in my life where I buy a car for how it makes me feel, don't give a rat's ass about mpg, being "practical" and I can't stomach the looks of most imports, don't like the sound of any engine except a V-8, will not buy a FWD car period. An American car has never left me stranded on the side of a road.

[Stock03]

Smokie--you can't talk about statistical significance with this kind of poll. Respondents are self-selecting, not randomly sampled (and without random sampling you can't generalize). Polls like this are intrinsically biased in that people with negative experiences are far more likely to respond than those without such experiences. I don't know what you want to do with the results, but, unfortunately, you really can't say much about much, other than to say that some people report certain problems with their cars.


I don't expect these numbers to be statistically significant until we have at least 200 responses, however the current 80/20 ratio is not good, I am aware that usually the unhappy are more responsive to an opportunity to vent; but a 20% negative rating seems bad to me.

My expectations prior to releasing the survey were about 8% negative.

[Smokie]

Smokie--you can't talk about statistical significance with this kind of poll. Respondents are self-selecting, not randomly sampled (and without random sampling you can't generalize). Polls like this are intrinsically biased in that people with negative experiences are far more likely to respond than those without such experiences. I don't know what you want to do with the results, but, unfortunately, you really can't say much about much, other than to say that some people report certain problems with their cars.

I simply want to know how our members feel about their cars, this poll is not scientific, I set up the guidelines and people choose a basic yes or no.

I can word the questions on the poll to achieve any result I wish to get by manipulating the wording of the question.
I made it easy for anyone to participate, made it private to increase negative responses, the guidelines exclude how you feel about your car or the positive influence this car and club has had on many members life.

This survey is designed to bring out the worst possible results to our car, will see how the car can withstand the onslaught of unhappy owners, they are far more likely to participate than satisfied owners. The car is holding it's own ground so far, will see how it ends.

The results will be significant to me.:D

[Shora]

Either the QUALITY of your car meet or exceeds your expectations or it doesn't. Yes or No.

Before I voted I spent the better part of the day thinking about how I will respond. I did not just vote on how I feel about the car or how it makes me feel driving it. The people I have met as a result of this site and ultimately the car are top notch. Others, whom I have not had the pleasure of meeting have still been there for me, answering my questions and giving advice that I could not afford should I have had to pay for it. This has made me enjoy the car immensely. However, I simply cannot accept that a car that burns oil, smokes on almost every start-up, ticks, has the worst factory allighnment (thank goodness for Carfixer) and OEM tires (as far as wear goes), moister in headlights etc. etc. deserves to receive a satisfied response on a quality poll. Thus, I had to vote that I am not satisfied with the quality. However, should there be a poll conserning "over all satisfaction" my vote would be different and it would be in no small part as a result of the great people here.

[baltimoremm]

I'm in the satisfied category despite the following
-ticking
-headlamp moisture
-alignment problems
-squeaks and creaks
-blue smoke
-tire wear
This car has saved my life more than once. Plus, the fun I have had in this car far outweighs the few headaches with quality.

[Smokie]

. Thus, I had to vote that I am not satisfied with the quality. However, should there be a poll conserning "over all satisfaction" my vote would be different and it would be in no small part as a result of the great people here.

I knew I could word the guidelines to reflect the "total experience of ownership" and the poll would probably have a much greater positive feedback, very few cars released by any auto maker have provided the level of "overall satisfaction" our car has generated.....I'll leave that poll to someone else to make that inquiry.:D

[Mad4Macs]

What I've found very eye-opening is the number of people who have reported satisfied with the quality but have listed some pretty serious problems nonetheless. As mentioned in a previous post, I think this shows that we (as a group of enthusiasts) have come to accept this kind of quality from our automakers, however I can't see the general population being as tolerant.

This is a very good indication of why the domestic automakers are in trouble. If it takes a group of enthusiasts to accept this level of quality and Ford can only sell a total of 11000 such cars over 2 elongated model years, then they have no choice but to downsize to the scale of some small specialty manufacturer and cater to a small specialty car market.

Personally, I love the car (heck, I bought a second one) but I am consistently asking myself how it is possible to screw up what is essentially a Grand Marquis with a Mustang motor.

Thank you very much! And yet, we're still getting responses saying "Yup, I've had major problems but I love the car".

That's not the point of the poll, people! We're a bunch of car crazy nuts... the general population does NOT sit back and say "This is the worst paint I've ever seen" or "My new car blows blue smoke" or "This car rattles, ticks, squeaks, has axles failures, transmission blowouts, window motors that fail" etc etc etc and then jump up and down about how much they love the car!
The general population says "My next car will be a Toyota".

Heck, I'm thinking about an old post I made here once, when I said I'd never buy another product from STAP, and how I got flamed from union workers. Man, did those guys miss the point!

Speciality car owners are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. If a Ford hears complaints from a group of die-hard enthusiasts, you'd think they'd be concerned about what the population at large thinks of their products. It burned my backside when a STAP worker chuckled about how trim pieces were installed incorrectly! If that's the prevalent attitude among GM and Ford workers (and I don't believe that it is), you'll eventually be laughing your way to the unemployment line.

Oh, and GRRR! :D

[Smokie]

Thank you very much! And yet, we're still getting responses saying "Yup, I've had major problems but I love the car".

That's not the point of the poll, people! We're a bunch of car crazy nuts... the general population does NOT sit back and say "This is the worst paint I've ever seen" or "My new car blows blue smoke" or "This car rattles, ticks, squeaks, has axles failures, transmission blowouts, window motors that fail" etc etc etc and then jump up and down about how much they love the car!
The general population says "My next car will be a Toyota".

Heck, I'm thinking about an old post I made here once, when I said I'd never buy another product from STAP, and how I got flamed from union workers. Man, did those guys miss the point!

Speciality car owners are the EXCEPTION, not the rule. If a Ford hears complaints from a group of die-hard enthusiasts, you'd think they'd be concerned about what the population at large thinks of their products. It burned my backside when a STAP worker chuckled about how trim pieces were installed incorrectly! If that's the prevalent attitude among GM and Ford workers (and I don't believe that it is), you'll eventually be laughing your way to the unemployment line.

Oh, and GRRR! :D

I tried to remove from the poll as much emotional appeal as possible, however keep in mind that the owners personality traits have a great deal to do with what they percieve as WRONG or IMPORTANT.

Like it or not some folks are anal and focus on finding a problem, quality exist only to some folks in PERFECTION, anything less then perfect is crap to some folks....that's life.

Happy people usually keep their mouths shut= don't vote.
I already mentioned this earlier but is worth repeating....my son is a wrench at a Lexus dealer, spends about 50 hours a week FIXING broken Lexus, at this facilty the word broken or repaired is not likely to appear on the invoice, it's TESTED, ADJUSTED, REPLACED or MAINTENANCE.

My boy sure makes a good living doing Maintenance on these cars.:D

[lwblumjr]

Hi all,

I am the second owner of my 2003 Marauder and am very satisfied with the quality. I am horrified to hear how many owners report rattles in theirs. I have noticed no rattles or other unexplained noises. I do have an intermitant problem with the power window circuit breaker for the left side windows. Very occasionally they will not work. Either one or the other, not both. Then they start working again with no action from me. Curious but not alarming (as long as they start working again.) One quality issue. The left rear door panel trim has the wood grain (standard Grand Marquis) versus the carbon fiber look trim of the other door panels and dash. Anyone wreck theirs and have a replacement for me? My car is Black with the dark grey/black interior. Just thought I would ask. It doesn't bother me all that much. Now if I had been the first owner I would have definitely had that replaced.

[snowbird]

Noisy seats, some water going inside the cockpit and trunk, intermitent idle weirdness, moisture in the headlights, porn sounds from the rubbers strips surrunding doors and back window when its rainy, seat switch in the door illuminated when they feel for it.

All those troubles typical of cheap materials and workmanship. It was kind of a gift to the modders of this continent with the right basic performance package, but clearly, they were after our money. Why do we have to change and upgrade so many parts to get level with the imports ?

Quality was not number one in my book for that car. I still don't understand why i like it so much, kind of an old trusty dog that have all those deviant behavior.

[STLR FN]

Since I've owned this car, I haven't had any major issues. I just recently had the drivers seat replaced due to wear but I think that was more self inflicted due to my wallet being in my left pocket. The passenger side heated seat light went out. The other one was a dealer installed item, remote start acting up. Paint... well as expected, factory orange peel, which I see on every make and model. Do I feel it could use some HP, yes but not what I would consider extremely deficient.

I do have a squeak/rattle issue from my front end mis-alignment that wasn't there before hand. I attribute this to the tech that did the aligment. If Ford would've aligned to different specs then I would'nt be dealing with that issue.
Tire wear... don't what to say bout that.

The one issue that gets me the most is the alignment issue from the factory.
Otherwise about what I'd expect from a company squeezing vendors. You ask for cheap prices you get cheap in return. I work at Ford so I get to see it day in and day out.

But as others have stated quality is subjective to the person responding. What one finds agrivating, another dosen't think so.

Overall I'm satisfied with the fit/finish of my Marauder.

[jimlam56]

I've only had my 2004 for a little over a month, but I am generally pleased with the build quality besides a few interior squeaks and rattles.
But with only 19k on the odometer I believe its too early to tell.
I plan on keeping this car,so I'll let you know in ten years or so.
Thanks, Jim

[Smokie]

Day 5, 167 votes...funny thing is we have over 2000 members. Must be a lot members here that drive Toyotas.:lol:

[TripleTransAm]

I imagine there could be a percentage of those members who are either no longer active with the web site, or have sold the car and are no longer owners.

[Smokie]

I imagine there could be a percentage of those members who are either no longer active with the web site, or have sold the car and are no longer owners.

Yeap, based on my non-scientific but always insightful opinion....we have exactly 281 members......:eek:

[Marauder2005]

It seems like most of the Marauders that have problems, are the 2003's.

And to think, I was seconds away from getting a 2004 :( :alone:

[TripleTransAm]

It seems like most of the Marauders that have problems, are the 2003's.

Interesting hypothesis. Statistically, one would expect to hear MORE problems from 2003 owners based on the fact that there are many more 2003 owners than 2004 owners to begin with. 2003 owners occupy 2/3 of the total 2003-2004 ownership base.

However, I do recall hearing some 2004 owners with some fairly serious problems. Not to single him out, but MarauderJack had been compaining of a certain behaviour with his 2004 that would have had me calling my lawyers to back me up on having Ford take the car back. I applaud his tenacity and it seems it was all due to some coil wire problems. Nonetheless, I would not have had the patience to endure what he went through, with a new high performance vehicle of this class.

But I really try to keep an open mind to all theories: Is there any reason to believe Ford quality would have improved for the 2004 model year? Is there any indication that Ford felt sufficiently in the black ($$-wise) to ease up on any cost-pressures or quality shaving with suppliers?

Anyone know how many 2004 Marauders were sold in Canada? How many 2003 units for that matter?

[texascorvette]

Day 5, 167 votes...funny thing is we have over 2000 members. Must be a lot members here that drive Toyotas.:lol:Folks who do polling for a living will tell you that unhappy people are more likely to respond--just like unhappy eligible voters are more likely to vote.

[Smokie]

Ok Logan, you need to tell all those thousands of non-voters that their accounts will be nuked if they don't vote........pronto.:uzi:

[BlueMarauder]

Quality equals reliability. My 2003 has always started, arrived at its destination, and returned home. I can rely on the car to get me there and back. What else do you really need? Maybe some vroom, handling, and comfort. The car has these attributes also. A superior automobile even with some occasional lapses in workmanship.

[merc]

Day 5, 167 votes...funny thing is we have over 2000 members. Must be a lot members here that drive Toyotas.:lol:

2005 Camry owner here !! :P Also a 2003 Marauder owner with a large service record.

[Smokie]

2005 Camry owner here !! :P Also a 2003 Marauder owner with a large service record.

If I was going to describe the service record of your Marauder, one word comes to mind......Distinguished

[Bruce Wayne]

I love this car! 63,000 kms and couldn't be happier!

[DEW34]

Smokie i can not say i would buy another marauder if i knew then what i know now. i have not had the problems that others have had knock on wood. but a t the same time i have had some small thing s go wrong in some ways i am very satisfied in others i have been left dissapointed . i have a problem now as we speak when i mash the throttle down i get a lott of smoke and the car wont travel in a straight line, and leaves marks all over the road :burnout:
mike

[Smokie]

Smokie i can not say i would buy another marauder if i knew then what i know now. i have not had the problems that others have had knock on wood. but a t the same time i have had some small thing s go wrong in some ways i am very satisfied in others i have been left dissapointed . i have a problem now as we speak when i mash the throttle down i get a lott of smoke and the car wont travel in a straight line, and leaves marks all over the road :burnout:
mike

Yeap, know what you mean, horrendous squealing from the rear, smoking, car going sideways. Something must really be wrong....:lol:

[Frank Androski]

Is it only Ford/ M.M. that would put a light Grey primer under a Black
paint job?!!!! Hence every stone chip or scrape becomes more noticeable.
Good engineering, you think?

[hitchhiker]

I believe that the quality was better on the 04's

:D

[QWK SVT]

I would say I am satisfied... I've not had to make a single unplanned visit to the dealer. The car is quicker than advertised (14.8 stock is quicker than I expected), and handles much better than anything thing big really should... More comfort for my size than anything I've had, or driven before (including options with much greater sticker prices). :2thumbs:

My two knocks - soft paint, that shows a fair bit of swirl and the leather seat is showing 'wrinkles' faster than expected.

[texascorvette]

Is it only Ford/ M.M. that would put a light Grey primer under a Black
paint job?!!!! Hence every stone chip or scrape becomes more noticeable.
Good engineering, you think?In theory the primer and the paint are different colors so you can see when the thickness of the paint is adequate. If they were the same color, it would be more difficult to tell where the was put on too thinly.

[Randolph]

2003A stock with 51,000 miles. Just last week put on it's first new set of tires. Never had a problem of any kind. Strongly, 100% Plus Satisfied.

[Macon Marauder]

I voted yes. Then I got to thinking: how about those of us that have owned (or do own) more than 1 Marauder?
:)

I had a few small problems with the black '03, but was satisified overall. No problems with the '04.

[chicago_cop]

That is why I did not ask if you like or love the car, I wanted to have an idea how it would rate when the word quality was used.

Two observations on my part; 1: Son #1 is a master wrench at a Lexus dealership and makes a fine living repairing broken Lexus. What Japanese manufacturers call "routine maintenace" is called a repair across the street at Ford. I have seen $1200 invoices for "maintenance".

2: I am at a point in my life where I buy a car for how it makes me feel, don't give a rat's ass about mpg, being "practical" and I can't stomach the looks of most imports, don't like the sound of any engine except a V-8, will not buy a FWD car period. An American car has never left me stranded on the side of a road.

No one should feel bad about quality problems today. That is why we have warranties. I have done a personal servey on Mercedes Benz cars. My son in law and good friend both had major problems. The S600 is a $125 K car has been to the shop too many times to mention. He had to drive 3.5 hrs to another town to fix it again and again. My friend had an S430 that died and left him in the middle of the road time after time. Two of my neighbors have one. One of them pulled out of the garage, and the front bumper fell off, and she ran over it. The other S model would fall down to the frame over night with the wheels up into the wheel wells, and not driveable. Cars are very complicated today.
I have had Zero problems with mine.

[Smokie]

No one should feel bad about quality problems today. That is why we have warranties. I have done a personal servey on Mercedes Benz cars. My son in law and good friend both had major problems. The S600 is a $125 K car has been to the shop too many times to mention. He had to drive 3.5 hrs to another town to fix it again and again. My friend had an S430 that died and left him in the middle of the road time after time. Two of my neighbors have one. One of them pulled out of the garage, and the front bumper fell off, and she ran over it. The other S model would fall down to the frame over night with the wheels up into the wheel wells, and not driveable. Cars are very complicated today.
I have had Zero problems with mine.

I don't want to minimize a persons concerns about having a problem with an American car company, just because an American car has never failed me, I know others have had their problems and have today a mentality of "I will never buy an American car ever again".

This is my point of view, once a person has decided that something "is crap" and my next choice "is good" there is very little that anyone else can say to change their mind.

Let me give you an example that I have witnessed on an almost daily basis for over 30 years:

I have a customer that has had 2 or 3 problems with their Kenmore major appliance and tell me is crap and will never shop at Sears ever again. They go to Lowes or Home Depot and buy a Whirlpool major appliance. A year later I go to their house to fix the Whirlpool appliance and they forget me, but I don't forget "her" she tells me how much better this appliance is than the crap she bought from Sears, I look at her new "superior" appliance made by Whirlpool (the exact same company that built the Kenmore) and notice that it is a duplicate of her previous appliance, the only difference is cosmetic "console" the components are identical.

I compliment her on her "wise" purchase, fix appliance and leave, she continues with her life feeling satisfied with her "wise" decision about buying " a much better appliance". This is the same mentality that today has cost domestic car makers a big share of the pie.

[Dragcity]

When making quality judgements, we generally have to consider several things. Price to acquire, cost of maintenance, reliability, etc...

No one can even expect perfection. You could spend $300,000 on a hand built Lamborghini, but it is inevitable there will be an imperfection somewhere.

I voted satisfied. Considering all the things that go into the manufacture of automobiles today, it ain't easy. I am one of the lucky ones. I have had no problems at all with my 2004. Yes, the paint is thin and should have been better, the list price was too high (but you have to admit we got a lot of car for the $, plus we have to compare to what else we could get for the same $$)

For those of you who have problematic MM's, I can see how the quality of manufacture is, and should be an issue. Sounds like they worked out a lot of bugs for 2004's.

I was left stranded on the side of the road in mine, about 2 miles from home. I wish they could do something about this running out of gas thing !!!!! I was pushing the envelope to see how far below "E" I could go. Guess I found out, about 1/32 of an inch...

Want to have real quality (qwerky) issues? Own a Jaguar...

[juno]

One of them pulled out of the garage, and the front bumper fell off, and she ran over it. :laugh:

That's too funny! Sounds like a commercial. I only have 3000 miles on mine so far since I owned it so I can't be too quick to judge, but damn, the more I drive it, the more I like it:marauder:

[Smokie]

...I'm surprised to hear about the Lexus problems, but I will definitely start snooping around. It could simply be a case of more Lexus being sold hence more total faulty cars, but without more data it's impossible to comment on whether they are relatively fault-resistant or not.

I chose Lexus for 2 reasons, their owners consistently rate Lexus at the top of most quality surveys. Since my son has been wrenching for them for at least 5 years, I can relate a real world experience with a degree of authority that otherwise I could not provide since I have never owned a Lexus.

I would like to make clear that the Lexus is a quality, well built automobile deserving of the praise it recieves. They are also very "gadgety", the japanese love to have a button for everything. Like anything else built by men, they do have problems that require repairs, thus my statement of my "my boy makes a good living fixing them" is based on that, not that they are bad.

Here is the MAJOR difference between Lexus and Ford, when you go to a Lexus dealer the customers wishes and desires are above ALL ELSE, the customer is RIGHT, even when the customer is WRONG. Lexus will do anything in it's power to make sure when a customer picks up their car after repairs they drive away HAPPY. If there is a question about something being covered by the warranty...guess what??? They will fix it at NO CHARGE.

That is the reason why the Lexus is so highly rated, is not because it's perfect...but because the service they provide after the sale is NEARLY perfect.

[Smokie]

...So in your Lexus example, I'd love to know whether many customers are subject to repeat repair visits, or if it's simply a matter of so many cars being sold in total that the repair shop is busy with what ends up being a smalll percentage of total owners.

I'll do my best to answer as accurate as is possible for me. Lexus places a premium on maintenance, they emphasize to their customers the importance of maintenance so the typical owner will go to their dealer for all their maintenance needs, so visits to the dealer are quite common (repeats) during this maintenance visit (oil change) anything that is not right with the car is addressed (repaired) however the customer does not percieve this as REPAIRS because they came in for an oil change, most cases are handled same day, some times they wait for service, if it requires an overnight stay or longer, they are provided with a Lexus loaner.

So perception is this: "I only go to dealer for maintenance"
Reality is: repairs are made even if the customer was UNAWARE a repair was needed.

Would you say this method would tilt the satisfaction and quality index in a positive direction?

[TripleTransAm]

After rereading our posts, I think I get your question:

if Lexus techs are busy performing warranty work on cars without owners noticing that things had failed, I'd imagine the owners would think the cars would be the best thing since sliced bread. It's the ultimate safety net... if I NEVER felt let down by the vehicle in any way, what would I care if my day-to-day enjoyment was never compromised (sometimes ignorance is bliss, but I'd still like to know what's being done).

Does that say something about the cluelessness of Lexus owners, if I am understanding your question?

[Smokie]

First of all, the repairs that are made with the customer being unaware that a repair is needed. Is this to the surprise of the customer? Does the customer pay?.....If something warranty-related was done to my vehicle without my prior authorization, I'd be somewhat irritated.

My wording is poor, unaware when they came in for their oil change that there was a service bulletin for their vehicle to replace parts at no charge, new calibration programs for their PCM to remedy engine or tranny issues.

I was not referring to hidden charges, FREE repairs done while in the shop for maintenance, yes they do make customers aware of everything done; it is also printed on the invoice.

What I meant to say in a very poorly worded way is that I believe this: When you bring your car in for maintenance and they do FREE warranty repairs, you don't tend to associate that trip to the dealer with a problem.

Lexus philosophy is very astute, they do a great deal of work that they call scheduled maintenace that would be considered a repair with a domestic dealer. Now I am talking about paid Maintenance or Repairs.

[Smokie]

...Does that say something about the cluelessness of Lexus owners, if I am understanding your question?

A typical Lexus owner is not a gearhead or do it yourselfer.
They also are not poor, they paid a lot for the car and expect to be pampered at the dealer....and they are! I don't think they want to know details.....is kinda like this: "James, here is my auto...make it right"

There are always exceptions, ok?:lol:

[Marauder2005]

Interesting hypothesis. Statistically, one would expect to hear MORE problems from 2003 owners based on the fact that there are many more 2003 owners than 2004 owners to begin with. 2003 owners occupy 2/3 of the total 2003-2004 ownership base.

However, I do recall hearing some 2004 owners with some fairly serious problems. Not to single him out, but MarauderJack had been compaining of a certain behaviour with his 2004 that would have had me calling my lawyers to back me up on having Ford take the car back. I applaud his tenacity and it seems it was all due to some coil wire problems. Nonetheless, I would not have had the patience to endure what he went through, with a new high performance vehicle of this class.

But I really try to keep an open mind to all theories: Is there any reason to believe Ford quality would have improved for the 2004 model year? Is there any indication that Ford felt sufficiently in the black ($$-wise) to ease up on any cost-pressures or quality shaving with suppliers?

Anyone know how many 2004 Marauders were sold in Canada? How many 2003 units for that matter?

I did not take into account that 2003s are 2/3s, in fact I did not know this.

But I do know the black paint quality improved along with Ford got a

different supplier for there valves, so no more tick and blue puffs. I have

always read that the first year for any car is usually not the best of years.

Although, I could be in a dream world because I own a 2003...:rolleyes:

[SergntMac]

I voted "satisfied" because I am. I also understood what Javier was asking.

BTW, I have a stack of repair orders almost an inch thick now, just added three more pages today. Why do I seem to disagree with myself?

Well, I am pleased with overall quality of the delivered product, and twice too. I owned an early 300A (May '02 build, June'02 delivery) that gave me no problems what so ever in the 11 months and 10K miles I owned it. Every nickle I spent on that Marauder went to mods and owner maintenence. I sold it to CarMax, but only to fund the purchase of my Kenny Brown #1x.

I am disappointed in the investment I lost in the 11 months between my initial investment, and my return at sale, it's just shy of half and not including the mods I added to the car. That makes it even worse. However, my "buy" and "sell" numbers are not the quality issue Javier asks about. IMHO, L/M tacked on an additional 5K to the sticker that the car could not continue to earn after the advanced buyers learned to communicate with each other, but again, this isn't a quality issue.

Honestly, my Kenny Brown #1x has had it's mechanical problems too, but it's not a production line Marauder either, so, quality issues must be examined in light of the mods added, their side effects, and after effects. Side effects include learning that adding a supercharger reveals a weakness in the 4R70W tranny. After effects include learning that adding a supercharger increases my tire and suspension wear, and only because of the way I drive it. Once again, not really issues that can lead back to negative opinion on initial quality, yes?

I am disappointed in L/M's design of this automobile. Disappointed enough to ask "WTF were you thinking?" IMHO, too many junior designers on the program, and very few with any real, or, actual race experience, or, background. Someone should have invited Bob Bondurant into the design studio, among other topics he is keenly aware of with Panther framed contest cars, we may have seen a 5, or, 6 speed manual tranny option. Jeeze...WTF?

I know, I know...Our Marauder were never meant to be "real" race cars, but L/M Marketing hinged their bets on this aspect when profiling us, and L/M Advertising exploited that. Shame on all three, eh?

I'm pizzed about the bogus front end alignment specs. Just plain stupid, K? Kenny Brown saw this error and tried to fix it, but it was too early to be critical, and too late to correct production line cars. Likewise the choice of OEM tires. While the MM OEM 18X8 forged aluminum wheels are very stylish, and "make" the car, they require additional tweaking in size selection, alignment specs, balance and PSI, and L/M dropped this ball completely. At least Ford got it right for the '05 Mustang...Whew! Happy for you Ford!

The original 4R70W tranny came to show it's weaknesses, and in disappointing numbers. Disappointing enough for L/M to make some changes for the '04 MM, upgrading the tranny to a 4R75W, and a whole new computer profile (including dual knock sensors) for the EEC. Good. Things should work this way when negative experience feeds back from the field. However, as early as June of '03, I heard Steve Babcock speak of these "improvements", yet L/M failed to make a retro fit possible for early buyers. Another "shame on you".

Rear control arms...The OEM bits are totally bogus, and never should have been allowed into production. This was known to L/M because they offer stronger arms for different applications, but not the Marauder. Double shame if you want to include the 31 spline axles and differential given to the Town Car Limo. Y'all...These parts were on the shelf, and the whole axle-TSB thingy never would have happened had they used some foresight...WTF?

NOTE...The following is strictly my opinion.

The last thing I dare to mention here, is the "blue smoke at start-up".

While most of you who want to discuss this issue seem Hell-bent on getting it fixed, few of you want to learn why. This makes it a quality issue for you, but I remember something from early production that points it in another direction.

I remember how all early production ('03 cars by VIN, sold in June of '02) DOHC 4V applications, like Aviator, Mach I, and Cobra, got held back at the factory for what was called a "replacement head" (and it was repair work performed outside of the plant, and after the assembly line), while Marauders (with likewise 4V engines) did not get held back from production or delivery deadlines.

My introduction to the Marauder is very strong on this memory. John Hayes pointed to the cream colored Avaitor in his Napleton L/M "back room" and said "I can't sell you that". But, he could sell me the Marauder next to it, and he did.

This examples just how seperate L/M is from Ford, and we have seen it posted elsewhere here too. A Mustang/Mach I/Cobra/Aviator TSB on heads/valves, and so on, means squat to L/M service management. Apparently, Ford and L/M do not talk much, the father must hate his son. Not sure how the Aviator figures into this, but it seems to fit too.

But, I'm not that "sold" on this issue either, I don't think it's the heads at all.

IMHO, the problem stems from the lack of a PCV valve on the driver's side vent before it vents to the induction path, and after the MAF. No check valve, and you have full time vacume from the crankcase into the air path, and that ventalation will be thick with asperated oil once you shut off the engine. Next time you start the car, you get an oil-heavy "hairball" spit up into the bellows, and it gets digested in the first 1K RPM of engine RPMs.

I have timed this start-up routine time and time again, the "blue smoke at startup" follows a few seconds of engine run, which means it's not resting and waiting on the valves, as a bad valve seal would produce, but it's something coughed up a few seconds later, like after one full cycle has charged the crankcase with some pressure, and the whole process "upchucks", or "vomits" an oily hairball into your throttle body. It leaves as fast as it appears, yes? Y'all have complained about that initial "vroom" at engine start-up, what do you think's it's been doing?

But, this is just my opinion...Please carry on.

I have no problems with quality of the build as I bought it...Twice. But, I'd like to have lunch with reps from design, market and advertising someday.

BTW...Thank you, Javier, for this insiteful examination of our motives. I enjoyed the drive.

[Smokie]

It's been a week since the question was asked, with over 200 responses some trends have developed, most common complaints are:

Bad paint (seems to be 2003 black cars only)*
Front end aligment, lousy specs*
Moisture in headlights*
Ticking engine (heads)
Blue smoke on start up (see ticking engine)
Bad transmission
Power window motor/switches
Axle bearings
Rattle and Squeaks (pick your favorite spot)

These are not all the problems mentioned just the most prevalent.

* Denotes nearly universal problems common to most owners.

[Tom Doan]

No problems, but only 13k miles and never been to the dealer. Had the tranny go, from techs joy riding after putting in the 4:10's. Had rear blow after techs joy riding after PI converter install. Leson do not let any one drive your car with a S/Cer, just to much fun and temtation and they never turn off the O/D.
Got the car cheap, 25k, with 50 miles on it, saw an add, needed a 4 door 'cause the kids are growing like weeds. Sold an Audi TT, and a '69 Roadrunner, both had no rear room seat for the kids, both the best cars I ever had. For those that know me, how did I ever fit in a TT? Great thank you, huge for the driver, bad for the rest, but the car was for me anyway, then the kids just wouldn't stay small, must be genetic.
The wife said "not another preacher mobile, honeyyyy", 5 minutes later after getting the car sideways " I'm not touching that beast", best way to keep her hands off my toys is to scare her. Then came the blower, put back in the 3:55's, trans out for head cooling mod, trans out to change to a 2300 stall PI,needed more power, trans out to put in Cobra motor with cams, I'm ready to start using Velcro to hold it in. How much to $ to date, more than I saw in the "How much have you got in her" thread, I'll get bored and bring it to ShangHai and sell it for 100,000,000. yen and buy some trick CNC machines I have my eye on and get another one and start all over. Yea I know a fool and his money, but did you ever think the fool must have pretty sharp to earn the money in the first place? If I need it I go earn it, the worlds a small place and ShangHai is just around the corner. Merry Chrismas and hope to see my CAM buddys in Jan. Tom

[RoyLPita]

I bought my MM used in August with 7.8k on it. I also believe that the last owner used to take laps around Woodward Ave. I never ever thought that I had to replace rear brakes at 9k. My fronts are 1/2 gone. I also had to have the PCM replaced and the trans overhauled. As for small warranty stuff, I replaced :

all 4 speakers (1 buzzed)
plug for the left front turn signal assy (exposed wires blew fuse for signals)
both lamps in the 3rd brake light assy
fuel sender (went below full after driving 15 miles on highway)
vacuum check valve (air went to floor on accel)
4 lug nuts (covers came off)
clockspring (clicked on turns)
rear E-brake cables adjusted
rear rotors replaced (warped past specs)
IAC valve replaced (low idle)
gas cap, purge module and cannister replaced (MIL light on)
exhaust h-pipe gaskets (leaked after trans was done)
rt headlight (reflector came off inside)
lower driver seat cushion (wear area near left rear)
console cover and bin (hinge broke off at rear)

I work for a dealership so most of the work can get done there. I will say this, after getting all of the above stuff done, my MM is running great (knock on wood).

[bagpiper]

HERE IS A LIST OF PROBLEMS
Transmission rebuilt-8000 miles(conv smoked)
Trans wire harness replaced-8000 miles(corroded connectors)
Headlights replaced-11000 miles(moisture)
Engine tap and smoke on startup-11000 miles(unable to verify)
Subwoofer rattle-11000 miles(foam in speaker,insert in speaker tray)
Brake booster replaced-11000 miles
Heatshields replaced-11000 miles(upgraded)
Transmission leaking-11000 miles(replaced conv)
clicking sound front wheel since new-17000 miles(valve stem left in tire)
Rear axles and posi chuck replaced-19000 miles
Steering wheel replaced-20000 miles(peeling)
FILED FOR ARBITRATION-Recieved extented warranty
I was lucky to have a great service manager,my car now has 25000 miles and runs great but FORD QUALITY STINKS
03 300-A with bad paint

[StevenJ]

Um... Roy wasn't your car rebuilt after an accident? Maybe that could attribute to some of the problems you have had.

[TripleTransAm]

FILED FOR ARBITRATION-Recieved extented warranty


What does 'arbitration' mean?

[spiders]

Well I have the 04, and it is still stock, though not for much longer... Have been absolutely content with the car overall, though the rear tires issue blew my mind so I got one and a rim and use that as the spare. Have a minor issue with the speakers in the back, but there's no airflow on the rear dash so what do I expect, right?
I bought mine with 3 miles on it and for 25,500 in VA a year ago August. Have put 15K (roughly) on her over the speed limit and for long stretches, and never had an issue... even when gas prices were sky high... guess I figured it was worth the money to have the chance to enjoy driving so much

[rkk]

Moisture in the passenger headlight.
Factory front end alignment caused abnormal front tire wear
Weak paint.

All other things considered, it is one of my best cars. It has already proved itself better than my '96 Chevy Monte Carlo Z34.

[Leadfoot281]

I bought my Silver/Birch MM 8-04 w/19k, and have had zero problems. No complaints at all. Car now has 38k. Stock tires were replaced at 30k for $700.

Here's my view on this Lexus/brand loyalty/quality thing.

My brother spends $500/month on repairs and tows on his '93 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. And he's happy as a clam!!!! He thinks it's the best car he's ever owned!!!

It's just a matter of perspective. Now I doubt that the majority of current Lexus owners were once K-car owners, but if they were, that would certainly explain a few things, wouldn't it?

As for me, well, I might not have any idea what a good car is either. I've never owned anything other than a Ford or Mercury. Ever. I won't buy a motorcycle until Ford builds one. If Ford hasn't got something for me, I'll walk! My dog Henry agrees.

I worked at a salvage yard once. We knew what was good. Ford automatic transmissions just woudn't stay in stock. Aod's went out the day we got 'em. TH350's pilled up. So did 700R4's.

The best car ever built was the legendary '78 Ford Fairmont Futura. THE car by which all other cars should be judged.

That's my two cents worth.

[bagpiper]

What does 'arbitration' mean?
The arbitration board is a group of people not employed by Ford that reviews vehicle complaints.You have to open a complaint file,then request the required forms to file.I had to submit the vehicle repair history and write a letter explaining my dissatisfaction with the car.It took a lot of time and effort but I got a 5yr/75000 mile full warranty.PAID BY FORD.

[SID210SA]

Well folks here is my story....It all began on a cool November day in San Antonio. I went to test drive my silver birch on a Tuesday, sat in it, started it, revved it, drove it, awsome, I was just about sold, I went home and slept on it and came back the next day. Thats when the trouble started, from the begining there were problems. When I went to financing they subtracted $1,000.00 to much and found the mistake a few days later and made me come back in to sign new paper work. Then the gave the the wrong finance percentage but that worked in my favor. Then came the quality part of it. While doing the inspection of it we found the front bumper was not on correctly, the oil and volt guages were fogged up. Unfortunately for me I did not do enough research on this car nor have I ever owned a performance car before so I was not aware that the the Marauder took premium fuel or needed synthetic oil changes, nor did my salesman go over that with me. When the dealership was making the correction to my bumper they put a nick just above the grill and filled it in with touch up paint.
The sun roof was another issue. Again as I had never owned a car with a sun roof I did not know how it was supposed to sit when in the closed position.. I found out it was not fully closing when I noticed water leak in during a bath. I took it in and they told me my roof was bent downward so the seal was not tight on the roof. So when they fixed this problem there were dents in my roof. I still have yet to convince them this was their doing since I had already taken it off the lot 2 week earlier. ( yes it took me two weeks to figure out the roof was leaking) not like we get that much rain here. This was also the first car I owned that I couldn't rotate the tires on. I guess I hadn't really noticed that the rear tires were larger than the front but you would think they would go over all this with you before you by the car.
I also had a front break issue...the pad cut into the rotor on the passenger side and I was told it was normal as it happens on lots of ford cars.

All in all it is not nearly as bad as some here. And the dealership in my opinion helped out quite a bit by offering free car washes for a year, free oil changes for three years and half off any one cosmetic item, and two free loaner cars and a free rental. I know I must seem like an idiot for not knowing some of these things and some of these things are not quality issues with the car just with the dealership. And yes the car was new when I bought it.

[TripleTransAm]

the oil and volt guages were fogged up.

Damn... I thought it was just me.
MM #2 has this issue. MM #1 is still fine, though.

[grampaws]

Warranty repair history:
Oak-Land Ford Sales Limited
9/22/05 @ 42055km
repainted left rear door jam
replaced driver's door window switch (not lighting up)
r&i front door panel to lube regulator (no side specified)
6/9/05 @ 35585km
replaced melted trim cover a burnt out bulb
5/30/05 @ 35585km
refinished all? rims (sent out to Wheel Wizard)
replaced driver? lower seat cover
repaired loose leather on steering wheel (TSB)
reglued carpet on driver door panel
Bramview Ford
4/11/05 @ 33321k
replaced GEM module (DRLs inop)
Rowland on Eglinton Ford Lincoln Ltd
6/4/04 @ 21058km
replaced DRL module (inop)
Eastgate Ford Sales and Service
5/14/03 @ 8033km
r&r rt rear door panel to replaced faulty actuator
3/27/03 @ 5922km
resecured rt front inner wheel well
3/26/03 @ 5897km
evac & recharge a/c (inop)
1/21/03 @ 2655km
pressure test system, bleed out air bubble

Cracking Paint in shop being repaired..
Repairs at Eastgate still pending ..Satisfaction update to come..
AC clutch chatter never resolved dealer says normal..
Occasional sqeaks from suspension..not addressed..
had to go to three other dealers before taking to oakland..
And finally got the Items repaired.
Overall mechanically reliable...
fit and finish poor...
Dealer/warranty help disgusting..Particularly Rowland ford and Bramview Ford.
District warranty manager finally helped lead to paint issue resolution..
There are good warranty people out there they are just hard to find..
Car has 44,700 KMS or 27,000miles

[RoyLPita]

Warranty repair history:
Oak-Land Ford Sales Limited
9/22/05 @ 42055km
repainted left rear door jam
replaced driver's door window switch (not lighting up)
r&i front door panel to lube regulator (no side specified)
6/9/05 @ 35585km
replaced melted trim cover a burnt out bulb
5/30/05 @ 35585km
refinished all? rims (sent out to Wheel Wizard)
replaced driver? lower seat cover
repaired loose leather on steering wheel (TSB)
reglued carpet on driver door panel
Bramview Ford
4/11/05 @ 33321k
replaced GEM module (DRLs inop)
Rowland on Eglinton Ford Lincoln Ltd
6/4/04 @ 21058km
replaced DRL module (inop)
Eastgate Ford Sales and Service
5/14/03 @ 8033km
r&r rt rear door panel to replaced faulty actuator
3/27/03 @ 5922km
resecured rt front inner wheel well
3/26/03 @ 5897km
evac & recharge a/c (inop)
1/21/03 @ 2655km
pressure test system, bleed out air bubble

Cracking Paint in shop being repaired..
Repairs at Eastgate still pending ..Satisfaction update to come..
AC clutch chatter never resolved dealer says normal..
Occasional sqeaks from suspension..not addressed..
had to go to three other dealers before taking to oakland..
And finally got the Items repaired.
Overall mechanically reliable...
fit and finish poor...
Dealer/warranty help disgusting..Particularly Rowland ford and Bramview Ford.
District warranty manager finally helped lead to paint issue resolution..
There are good warranty people out there they are just hard to find..
Car has 44,700 KMS or 27,000miles


This history format looks very familiar..... :lol:

[grampaws]

This history format looks very familiar..... :lol:
And it should..The repairs paid for out of pocket..ie new tires
and normal wear are not listed nor are some repeat visits..ie
Talking to different dealers about paint issue...

[Parts Man]

Is This About Quality Or How Much You Like The Car Because These Are Two Diffarnt Thing..

Love The Car But Hate The Quality

[texascorvette]

Is This About Quality Or How Much You Like The Car Because These Are Two Diffarnt Thing..

Love The Car But Hate The QualityThe survey could have been worded differently. Just as it is possible to hate the sin without hating the sinner, it is possible to be disgusted with some aspects of a car's design or construction without hating the car--kinda like my wife feels about some of my little personality quirks!

[Smokie]

Sidenote: About 8% of the membership of this club owns a Marauder and about 6.8% of the total membership are satisfied with the quality of the car.

Editorial: I see very little value in having almost "3000" members when less than 300 participate, I propose the membership list be made up of "participants" not people the signed up on June of 2002, have zero posts and left us quite some time ago....if they were ever really here.


....end of rant.

[Hotrauder]

Smokey, I understand your frustration there may be some other reason that some of us haven't responded. I have only driven my car for 4K miles, number one; I have had absolutely 0 problems regarding quality and all of the other concerns expressed I empathise with to the point that I feel quilty that my car is so great so far. The paint is perfect and full of metal flake and coverage to my untrained eye is as it should be. I hope that this is the case with many others and I feel badly for those less fortunate. My car may go to hell the first day I get it back but to this point I have never had one I enjoyed so much.

Off track I know and I apologize but I was thinking today about how long ago it was that I bought an American (or North American) car before the CVLX Sport in 2003. I bought it only because we were retireing and I wanted to take everything with me when we traveled. That car despite the underwhelming suspension and lack of real power was a really nice trouble free car for 36,000 miles and that is part of the assurance I needed to go for the 2004MM. I had driven company cars, Fords and Chevies for years and when I decided I wanted the tax benefits of owning my work vehicles I knew I didn't want the nightmare headaches I had with the company domestic iron. I bought 3 straight Nisson Maximas. Drove them for a total of over 400,000 miles with mandated service and never had a failure other than one tire blow out when I hit a piece of bumper bracket from one of the 2 Jeep SUV's that did a head on right in front of me at 55 mph. I thought that I would probably never buy domestic again but the MM is a car I would recommend to anyone based on my experience.

Yikes, sorry..maybe a need my medication adjusted. Ya think? Dennis PS I voted in the poll but did not post.

[fast-eddieeeeee]

You don't need to read this if you beleive all cars are essentially equally as good or bad (glass half full glass half empty).

I've owned Olds, VW, Plymouth, Hilman, Chevy, Honda, Toyota, Ford, Mercury, and some others. They are all good or they all suck. What really matters is the manufacturer stands behind the product all they way.

They all break. None are made perfect. Just some are more fun to drive. And if the manufacturer is backing the product at minimum cost to you (heck I never got a rental car from Toyota, they just say call for ride) then bonus. Zsa-Zsa, Eva and BeBe all agree (my dogs). They say RrrrRRrrrWoof! That means ya, now give me a bisquit.

The Marauder is a Grand Marquis on steroids. Less rattles then the Camrey and Marauder fun factor is way better. Both are going to break because I drive them. But I bet the Grand Marquis will get fixed and I will get a rental car for free. I adopted the 300a from texas. Ford recertified after I purchased and permitted me to buy a 5yr/100k bumper to bumper warranty extension. Toyota doesn't even have a warranty extension, some no name has nothing to do with Toyota sells it like those fly by night used car dealers out there.

So you and I agree. Now we have 4 cents with my 2 cents added.


I bought my Silver/Birch MM 8-04 w/19k, and have had zero problems. No complaints at all. Car now has 38k. Stock tires were replaced at 30k for $700.

Here's my view on this Lexus/brand loyalty/quality thing.

My brother spends $500/month on repairs and tows on his '93 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. And he's happy as a clam!!!! He thinks it's the best car he's ever owned!!!

It's just a matter of perspective. Now I doubt that the majority of current Lexus owners were once K-car owners, but if they were, that would certainly explain a few things, wouldn't it?

As for me, well, I might not have any idea what a good car is either. I've never owned anything other than a Ford or Mercury. Ever. I won't buy a motorcycle until Ford builds one. If Ford hasn't got something for me, I'll walk! My dog Henry agrees.

I worked at a salvage yard once. We knew what was good. Ford automatic transmissions just woudn't stay in stock. Aod's went out the day we got 'em. TH350's pilled up. So did 700R4's.

The best car ever built was the legendary '78 Ford Fairmont Futura. THE car by which all other cars should be judged.

That's my two cents worth.

[Wags]

Well, I just had to put in my 3RD power window switch cluster (driver window switch shot, again). I've had many, many electrical problems with this car, as well as trim coming off, a hole in the drivers seat, and many gnd problems. Maybe its because it is such an early build car (I purchased 6/02).This weekend, I finally looked into why I keep blowing the fuse for the fog lights. The housing for these are wide open to the elements. There is NO protection. The drivers side one was just shot. It was shorting everytime power was applied. People who live in snow country better try to protect these somehow, or they will corrode away. This has to be one of the worst electrically wired cars that I have owned. I've had to track down bad grounds all over the place. Very poor wiring job, at least on my car. It will be gone after the winter.

Wags

[AJAX]

voted not. Car had rearend rebuilt ,radio replaced . doors adjusted, main wireing harnes shorted to ground. air inlet house replaced. tires ate of at corners. But dealer was really great. I didnt by my car from them but the fixed everything. Also replaced both seat frames. But what can I say it get more questions and looks than my old corvette. Ajax