Super Rigid Frame!!!!

[Marauderjack]

While installing my SCer I had the pleasure of removing the fuel tank to install a high output fuel pump!!:argue: :mad2:

In order to get the tank clear of the car I had to jack it up pretty darn high!!

I started on the right rear at the jack point in front of the RR wheel and jacked it up about 2.5 feet and place a jack stand under it. Pulled the jack out and went around to the left rear wheel and noticed it was off the floor about 3 inches...then I noticed the right front was off the floor about 2 inches....DAYAM....the one jack stand and the left front wheel were all that was on the ground!!!:bows: :confused:

I have done this several times with my AC Cobra replica but never with a car this big!!

AMAZINGLY RIGID FRAME!!!:beer::burnout:

Marauderjack:D :burnout: :burnout:

[Petrograde]

wow,....

Times like this really make you want a nice lift in the garage huh?

[MI2QWK4U]

While installing my SCer I had the pleasure of removing the fuel tank to install a high output fuel pump!!:argue: :mad2:

In order to get the tank clear of the car I had to jack it up pretty darn high!!

I started on the right rear at the jack point in front of the RR wheel and jacked it up about 2.5 feet and place a jack stand under it. Pulled the jack out and went around to the left rear wheel and noticed it was off the floor about 3 inches...then I noticed the right front was off the floor about 2 inches....DAYAM....the one jack stand and the left front wheel were all that was on the ground!!!:bows: :confused:

I have done this several times with my AC Cobra replica but never with a car this big!!

AMAZINGLY RIGID FRAME!!!:beer::burnout:

Marauderjack:D :burnout: :burnout:

You actually dropped the tank to do the pump? What pump did you install?

[Marauderjack]

Wabro....255LPH in tank pump!!

Was not much fun but it works like a champ!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[MI2QWK4U]

Wabro....255LPH in tank pump!!

Was not much fun but it works like a champ!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:


When we did some of the first Trilogy cars that were at the edge of stock fuel pump performance, we swapped out for the Focus pump, but if the tank is near empty, you can swap it out without actually dropping the tank, but a lift makes it easier yet.

[StevenJ]

You own an AC Cobra replica? Which brand? Factory Five cars are the best!

[Marauderjack]

It's a Classic Roadsters replica with a HELL RAISING 408W Stroker....Baaaad to the bone!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout: :burnout:

[SergntMac]

Wabro....255LPH in tank pump Kenny Brown used this pump in his experimenting with the 1x, but I later switched out to dual Focus pumps. Why?

The Walbro 255 is close to maxed out in high horsepower applications, delivering 32 pounds across 42 pound injectors at 6000 RPM, at a full duty cycle. This is dangerously close to a lean condition. Once I switched to the dual Focus pumps, I got 39 pounds at 6000 RPM, 93 percent duty cycle. This still isn't ideal, but I have some elbow room now, and this change put me over the 500 RWHP line. Please monitor this carefully once you're together and getting dynotuned.

BTW, have you changed the 90 degree bends at the filter in the fuel supply line?

[Joe Walsh]

You own an AC Cobra replica? Which brand? Factory Five cars are the best!

NAW!......You haven't seen an ERA Cobra....You REALLY have to look hard to see that my Cobra is not a REAL 427....especially with 'Historic' plates...heh heh heh.:D

:hijack: sorry....

[RoyLPita]

If you are still are trying to install the pimp, try loosening the right side exhaust hangers. It will help in getting to the pump.

[MM03MOK]

You own an AC Cobra replica? Which brand? Factory Five cars are the best!A good friend of mine built his Factory Five AC Cobra and it kicks azz! F5 is only a couple of towns away from me!!
http://www.factoryfive.com/

[Rider90]

If you are still are trying to install the pimp
I'm torn on this mod. Will it add power, or make me popular? what?

[ex00p71]

Power, well you'd probably have control over the girls on the corner. But pimpin ain't easy, so I'd probably install a supercharger first.

[Marauderjack]

Hey Mac....

ProCharger (FIT) uses a dual Cobra pump system for applications over 500 RWHP but I don't want to push that much with my daily driver!!:cool:

My fuel pressure is around 50-55 PSI at WOT....I think....It happens so fast I really should log it to be sure??:beer:

I may have Greg at FIT build up the dual Cobra setup for me to be safe....Trouble is it takes the whole OEM pump assembly and about $500??

Stay Tuned!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Haggis]

Kenny Brown used this pump in his experimenting with the 1x, but I later switched out to dual Focus pumps. Why?

The Walbro 255 is close to maxed out in high horsepower applications, delivering 32 pounds across 42 pound injectors at 6000 RPM, at a full duty cycle. This is dangerously close to a lean condition. Once I switched to the dual Focus pumps, I got 39 pounds at 6000 RPM, 93 percent duty cycle. This still isn't ideal, but I have some elbow room now, and this change put me over the 500 RWHP line. Please monitor this carefully once you're together and getting dynotuned.

BTW, have you changed the 90 degree bends at the filter in the fuel supply line?
^^^As Mac says^^^

Jack, when Kenny Brown installed the Walbro in #8, I had fuel pressure problems from day 1. I was never able to get enough pressure at WOT and was close to running very lean. The Walbro is not designed for a returnless fuel system, which is in the Marauder. I have since removed the Walbro pump and replaced it with the SVT Focus fuel pump and a Kenny Bell boost-a-pump and no longer have a fuel pressure problem.

Hate to tell you this, but drop your gas tank again and replace the Walbro with a SVT Focus fuel pump. Don't you wished now you would have asked us first what fuel pump you should have used? Good luck!!

[martyo]

AMAZINGLY RIGID FRAME!!!

It's good to be rigid.

[martyo]

A good friend of mine built his Factory Five AC Cobra and it kicks azz! F5 is only a couple of towns away from me!!
http://www.factoryfive.com/

Nice write up on them in a recent issue of HotRod magazine. I want one! :D

[juno]

A good friend of mine built his Factory Five AC Cobra and it kicks azz! F5 is only a couple of towns away from me!!
http://www.factoryfive.com/

YESSS! The best part about them is you can go out and get a cheap 'stang donor or build a monster.

[MM03MOK]

F5 has an open house every June. I see a "Meet" in our future!

[SergntMac]

Jack, I hope you understand that I am trying to be helpful here, not critical of your choice. I'm just trying to give you good advice.

ProCharger (FIT) uses a dual Cobra pump system for applications over 500 RWHP but I don't want to push that much with my daily driver! My fuel pressure is around 50-55 PSI at WOT....I think....It happens so fast I really should log it to be sure? I may have Greg at FIT build up the dual Cobra setup for me to be safe....Trouble is it takes the whole OEM pump assembly and about $500?

First, let me say that if you are confortable with your setup and it fits the way you intend to drive your Marauder, there's nothing wrong with it. However, if you find yourself wanting to go racing on a frequent basis, please reconsider. I think all of us are slightly surprised how this car has transformed us in to weekend warriors, and we're all doing thing we never imagined not long ago, myself included.

That said, you may have 55 PSI in the fuel system at 6000RPM, but that's not exactly what concerns me. You need to data log fuel flow in pounds across the injectors (meaning what gets to the last injector in the fuel chain), and monitor the duty cycle of the fuel pump. If it's less than 35 pounds per hour of flow, at 100 percent duty cycle on a dyno, you're going to run lean when the car is on the pavement, because flow will be working against the inertia of forward movement under WOT. This is also why I asked about the fuel filter, and the 90 degree bends in the supply line. Please check this out with Greg?

Yes, twin Cobra pumps are more expensive, but that was all we had for a while. Now we know that twin Focus pumps do the exact same job, and they are under 100 bucks each. The P/N is 3S4Z-9H307-BC and I paid a total of $519.98 with professional install by Sutton Ford. Ask Greg to look into using the Focus pumps? Could be cheaper than you think, and maybe there's a credit, or, refund for the Walbro?

[MM03MOK]

Running out of gas when you least expect to and when you need it the most is a very solid reason to make sure you're "insured" with the appropriate mod that fits your driving demands. It's much less expensive than rebuilding your engine. Peace of mind is worth allot!

[maraudernkc]

Jack, We reccomend Dual Cobra pumps and larger injectors on anything over 475RWHP. The tune that we use from Diablo does take into account the pump that is used on our base kit.



Hey Mac....

ProCharger (FIT) uses a dual Cobra pump system for applications over 500 RWHP but I don't want to push that much with my daily driver!!:cool:

My fuel pressure is around 50-55 PSI at WOT....I think....It happens so fast I really should log it to be sure??:beer:

I may have Greg at FIT build up the dual Cobra setup for me to be safe....Trouble is it takes the whole OEM pump assembly and about $500??

Stay Tuned!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[maraudernkc]

Haggis, that pump is a DC motor. Procharger has used that pump on thousands of mustang sytems with have the same type of fuel sytem that our Marauder's do. Diablo has tuned the Marauder with that pump in mind.



^^^As Mac says^^^

Jack, when Kenny Brown installed the Walbro in #8, I had fuel pressure problems from day 1. I was never able to get enough pressure at WOT and was close to running very lean. The Walbro is not designed for a returnless fuel system, which is in the Marauder. I have since removed the Walbro pump and replaced it with the SVT Focus fuel pump and a Kenny Bell boost-a-pump and no longer have a fuel pressure problem.

Hate to tell you this, but drop your gas tank again and replace the Walbro with a SVT Focus fuel pump. Don't you wished now you would have asked us first what fuel pump you should have used? Good luck!!

[Haggis]

Haggis, that pump is a DC motor. Procharger has used that pump on thousands of mustang sytems with have the same type of fuel sytem that our Marauder's do. Diablo has tuned the Marauder with that pump in mind.
That might be so...., but I had problems with fuel pressure (not enough). Now that I replaced it with the SVT Focus and boost-a-pump no problems up to 470RWHP.

[Marauderjack]

Here comes post #900 for me!!!!:banana: :beer: ;)

I started with a simple statement about how rigid the frames are on these cars and we end up in a fuel pump debate??:rolleyes:

I installed the FIT kit as it was designed and it seems to work GREAT!! I will stick with the ProCharger recommendations and Greg's advice here.:cool4:

If we see a reason to change the pump I will do it but I won't be happy!!:argue:

I wish the fuel pumps on these cars were anywhere besides inside the damn fuel tank!!:mad2: Couldn't it be made to work with one in the line on the frame like in the "good ole days"......whenever they were??:bows:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[SergntMac]

Here comes post #900 for me!!!!:banana: :beer: ;)

I started with a simple statement about how rigid the frames are on these cars and we end up in a fuel pump debate? From my point of view, it's not a debate, not a slam, and it's not going to be way of waging another war. I simply meant to pass along some advice, thanks for listening, do what you gotta do.

Last time on this too...Did you change anything with the OEM fuel filter and it's 90 degree bends. If not, give the topic some review?

-30-

[TripleTransAm]

I started with a simple statement about how rigid the frames are on these cars and we end up in a fuel pump debate??:rolleyes: :


Not my fault if you chose the wrong supercharger to install...
( :baaa: by tonight, y'all will be wishing we were still talking about fuel pumps!!!! *evil laugh* )






I wish the fuel pumps on these cars were anywhere besides inside the damn fuel tank!!:mad2: Couldn't it be made to work with one in the line on the frame like in the "good ole days"......whenever they were??:bows:


The old fuel pumps were suction type... they were mostly located on the engine or very close, and seldom pumped anything at greater than 10 psi (more like 6-7 psi on my '78 T/A). There was a drawback to this system, too... get the line hot enough and the fuel being sucked up to the front of the car risked evaporating, causing vapor lock. Never happened to me on any of my carb'ed cars, but I hear it can be a b*tch.

The new FI'ed cars take fuel under higher pressure. Some old-tech throttle body injections systems used relatively low pressures (10-12 psi) but it seems just the fact of having the fuel sent under pressure up to the engine was enough to reduce the chances of vapor lock (probably the same mechanics as having a gas stored in liquid form by upping the pressure, although at a very different scale).

Multi-port fuel injected engines usually run on pressures upward of 40 psi (probably closer to 50 or above, nowadays). Being an electric pump and working hard, it needs cooling and a lot of that cooling comes simply from being immersed in the fluid it's pumping. Because of this, run out of gas and you might cook the pump.

And then there's the issue of pressure regulation. Nowdays the pumps will bleed off any excess pressure in the tank, instead of the old setup of sending the fuel up front and having the regulator bleed the excess into a return line back to the pump which heats up the fuel needlessly and increases vapor emissions. So this can't happen without having the pump sitting INSIDE the tank.

[Marauderjack]

Makes perfect sense about the in-tank pump...Thanks TTA!!!

Mac....Yes I have the larger fuel filter from a Taurus (I think).....but no I did not straighten out the 90* bend yet.:shake:

How much fuel do you think is needed for 5-10 seconds at WOT?? I guess fuel starvation could happen and probably has but with a pump capable of moving a quart in 10-15 seconds it seems unlikely to me...BUT I HAVE BEEN REAL WRONG BEFORE!!:nono:

Larn me something Boss!!:beer:

Marauderjack:bandit:

[Haggis]

I started with a simple statement about how rigid the frames are on these cars and we end up in a fuel pump debate??:rolleyes:
No debate here, just a word of caution.

[HwyCruiser]

Jack,

My Procharger kit has done dozen dyno pulls and has been down the track twice that. I guess I'm lucky to be able so say that my engine is still in one piece since I still have the Wolboro pump across the 39 lb injectors that comes with the base kit. Dancing with the devil.

Seriously, it is my opinion from my experience with my car that the Walboro pump is fine. Dave verified that my a/f, fuel pump duty cycle and MAF counts were fine for the 370 pulley 9-10 psi application. When I had my base tune upgraded to Tim's latest "wild thing" tune in May, the Walboro pulled down below 10:1 all the way to 6200 rpm on the first dyno pull because Tim's tune was dialed in with his upgraded twin Cobra pumps. The a/f was corrected to 11.5:1 and didn't deviate from that while we played around with timing adders and t/c lockups on subsequent pulls.

Now if you're going to go to a 360 pulley 12-13 psi application and put out 30% more boost, I say go for it. Get the MAFia MAF extender too. Just don't forget to address the "x-factor" here: the tune. Parts ain't parts in this regard.

My $0.02.