Question for those who got their ticking fixed

[TripleTransAm]

Fired up MM#1 for the first time in a long while, and it confirmed that while the cold air does wake these things up sub-3000 RPM, it seems MM #2 likes the cold air even more.

There are 45000 km difference between the two cars, so maybe my 1st MM has just not aged as gracefully as I would have liked (all my other cars continue to improve their performance with mileage, go figure). The suspension feels much tighter on MM#1, but the engine seems more 'present' in MM#2... definitely seems to growl more from under the hood, and it seems much more willing to move.

One thing for sure: MM#1, even with the replacement cylinder head, has come to resume its ticking at levels equal to or worse than before I had the original head replaced (and since late 2004, it also taps a great deal at 1500-2000 RPM after a long trip, for a few days until the tapping finally subsides). MM#2 has a very mild tick in comparison, certainly nowhere as loud as MM#1 ticked at the same mileage, back in late 2003, certainly nowhere as loud as MM#1 ticks now.

So for those who have replaced their heads and rid themselves of the ticking: did you see an improvement in performance once you put a few break-in miles on the new head(s)? I am wondering if the excessive ticking is fooling the knock sensor into pulling back the timing. And hence why my MM#2 seems much more willing than my MM#1 appears to be at this point in time.

I certainly do enjoy driving this second car, even with the occasionally jiggly ride (maybe shocks, maybe body bushings, will find out soon...). A lot of it has to do with the way this second car's engine behaves. (No evidence of modification, and the shift points and feel are 100% identical to stock, if not 2-3 km earlier (visually) on the 3-4 upshift).

[metroplex]

Where would you say the tick comes from?

I know I have different heads, but my 4.6 2V V8 makes a ticking noise that seems to come from all over the place. The 5.4 2V V8 in the van is quiet. If I crawl under the oil pan of the 4.6 2V, I can hear a tick. If I'm over the intake manifold, I can hear it as well.

I've heard of ticking noises from Mustangs as well, and the tick was present in my engine before I touched the cams.

Do you have underdrive pulleys? What kind of oil are you using?

[SergntMac]

I suppose it could happen. It's my understanding that detonation produces a vibration at specific frequency, and the knock sensor is tuned for that frequency. Other engine noise and vibration that produces the same frequency may trigger the knock sensor, causing a loss of performance.

[metroplex]

On the trucks, exhaust pipes hitting a metal surface will trigger the knock sensor.

[TripleTransAm]

My cars are stock. Sickeningly stock. Which is usually good enough for me, considering the arsenal I have waiting for me in my garage.

Perhaps this is the reason why I've been unable to figure out the logic to the knock sensor readings on my Autotap output from the 1st MM. I will try the same for the 2nd MM... if I see something that makes sense on car #2, this might explain car #1's relative sluggishness. (by relative, I don't mean what my car would feel like with my fat aunt in the passenger's seat, but rather in comparison to my spritely second car).

Now, if my dealer can figure out where the rear end jigglyness is coming from (and the ensuing 'hollow' sounding suspension noise on hard bumps), I might actually have a tolerable Ford for once.

[metroplex]

Now, if my dealer can figure out where the rear end jigglyness is coming from (and the ensuing 'hollow' sounding suspension noise on hard bumps), I might actually have a tolerable Ford for once.

If your dealer is patient enough to willingly sit down and figure out those problems, then I'd be glad to drive X number of miles to your dealership. I have never seen or heard of such dealership service that would go to solve all the problems on a Ford.

[Marauder2005]

I have had a slight tick in my 03' MM since brand new. I have pesterd the

dealer bad enoght that Ford gave me the 75,000 bumper to bumper for

nothing. Ford however, did not give my dealer the permission to replace the

head. I have noticed no power loss, and no oil cunsumtion problems. I

really think its fair to say that these mod. Ford motors have a "natural"

tick, me trying to make myself feel better, maybe.

As for your suspention, I believe your from Canada for your last post? If

thats the case, you guys get some heavy snow, and with that comes

heavy salt, that takes a big tole on your vehicle.

[metroplex]

Marauder 2005: Where does your tick come from? If you crawl near/under the oil pan, can you still hear it?

What about from the top of the motor?

[TripleTransAm]

Agreed on the salt issue, but how come my 1st MM with 70000 km still feels pretty tight and controlled, and my 2nd MM at 24000 km feels loose and 'hollow' in the rear?

My dealership was very supportive with my problems over the years, however my favorite technician just recently departed to pursue a new career. This had me very concerned, as I respected his troubleshooting approach to get to the bottom of a problem instead of applying a bandaid fix. This will no doubt influence my appreciation of this second vehicle if I don't have my back covered the way I did before.

Anyway, if my ticking WAS causing a discrete power loss below 3000 RPM on the old car, so be it. I paid for 302 hp, I want those horses present, accounted for and individually numbered, doggone it. I'm paying for a Marauder, not a Hyundai (recall Hyundai hp-overrating fiasco from a few years back).

[metroplex]

So where is the ticking coming from? Bottom, Top end, everywhere?

[TripleTransAm]

Driver's side head.

[Marauder2005]

Agreed on the salt issue, but how come my 1st MM with 70000 km still feels pretty tight and controlled, and my 2nd MM at 24000 km feels loose and 'hollow' in the rear?

My guess would be maybe your Marauder has seen less weather abuse or

has tolorated it better.

Metro, the noise in my vehicle seems to be on both heads, mostly to be

heard in wheel-well and near the cat. (kind of like the TSB says on the

Cobra.) But unlike the Cobra, it sounds like its just as loud on both sides.

My dealer has sword up and down our motor is not the same as the Cobra.

He claimed we shard more componants with the Lincoln Aviator. The service

manager said the Aviator has the same tick. I listened to an; at the time

brand new 2003 Aviator, and yes it had the tick as well. I went to

another dealer who told me the same thing.

Trans, have you noticed oil cunsumption problems? I never really get blue

smoke, only if it sits for 4 days or more, I have never been low on oil either?

How is your new to you MM doing? any blue smoke? We have brand new

CVPIs that may sit for 5 days waiting for lights etc. to be installed and

they will blow blue smoke after less then a week of not being started. I

think I can honestly say, that these matters are normal for these motors.

[metroplex]

My Vic is the same way: the tick seems to come from the top end (either head) or the bottom end, it's just "everywhere" and it was making the sound before the cams. Several GT owners have noticed that when doing the PI intake swap, the tick becomes louder.

Noisy injectors are unlikely since they can't be this loud!

I think it could just be the hydraulic lash adjusters...

[RF Overlord]

...with my fat aunt in the passenger's seat...
...where the rear end jigglyness is coming from...Anyone else see the serendipity here?

:lol:

j/k Steve...

[Marauder2005]

Anyone else see the serendipity here?

:lol:

j/k Steve...


:lol: :lol:

[TripleTransAm]

My dealer has sword up and down our motor is not the same as the Cobra.

Your dealer is correct. In a manner of speaking. The motors are different (different intake, different throttle body, possibly different bottom end, etc.etc.etc.) but the heads are the same, if I am to believe the numbers I saw before my eyes on the parts computer. Even the camshafts appear to have the same number. Once I saw this, I KNEW there was no logical reason to deny my 1st Marauder the 'fixed' heads since the 'tsb' was applicable to the identical head when installed in a Cobra!

Anyway, a lot of good it did me in the end. Within a year the ticking was back, gradually, and accompanied by a sewing-machine tapping that would linger for several days after a long drive (say, 6-10 hours in a row). Maybe the newer castings have finally addressed this... I doubt it, since the 4V head is pretty much dead, replaced by the 3V unit as the Hi Perf motor du jour (although the early 3V Stangs were halted at the production line due to head problems). We've paid our money, we no longer represent any potential revenue for them.

I'm actually quite surprised the aftermarket hasn't taken a good hard look at the heads and determined the real underlying cause.


As for MM#2, it's doing okay considering the rear end looseness. I don't feel the car tracks confidently around tight cornering situations. It's not the tires, as I was able to experience literally back to back driving with the same set of tires on either car. It does occasionally blow blue smoke on startup, pretty much the same as MM#1. However, the ticking is SO much less pronounced on MM#2.

In fact, in corresponding just now with a childhood buddy who I seduced into buying a 1988 GTA of his own, I came to realize when describing the behaviour of MM#2 that my impression of the more 'present' engine note from the underhood area during normal driving might actually be a result of the better overall timing! I remember a similar behaviour with a 1985 Parisienne 305 when it came to messing with timing. This second car does go like a bat out of hell when I start tickling the go-pedal.

Considering the enjoyment I'm getting out of MM#2's powertrain, if I can quieten and stabilize the rear end I'll be extremely happy (not satisfied with the build and parts quality, mind you... but I'll be enjoying the driving experience to its fullest once again).

[Marauder2005]

[quote=TripleTransAm]Your dealer is correct. In a manner of speaking. The motors are different (different intake, different throttle body, possibly different bottom end, etc.etc.etc.) but the heads are the same, if I am to believe the numbers I saw before my eyes on the parts computer. Even the camshafts appear to have the same number. Once I saw this, I KNEW there was no logical reason to deny my 1st Marauder the 'fixed' heads since the 'tsb' was applicable to the identical head when installed in a Cobra![quote]

This makes alot more sense, thank you for clarifing this for me. I wish I had

that info at the time. I also noticed its all of us, the 2003 MM owners that

are complaing about this head tick, which makes me wonder... None the

less, I hope your MM #2 proves to be a better experience.

[Smokie]

if I see something that makes sense on car #2, this might explain car #1's relative sluggishness. (by relative, I don't mean what my car would feel like with my fat aunt in the passenger's seat, but rather in comparison to my spritely second car).


Number 1 went from fastest known stock Marauder(14.5xx) to "relative sluggishness"????....maybe since number 2 feels stronger, you should take it to the track.

Maybe you can set a new world record for a stock Marauder.:D Actually take them both, same track same day, numbers don't lie.

Remember this guy??? http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5754

[TripleTransAm]

Number 1 went from fastest known stock Marauder(14.5xx) to "relative sluggishness"????....maybe since number 2 feels stronger, you should take it to the track.

I was considering taking #1 to the track for a "how is she doing?" run this Fall, to see how she would run with the new tensioner (and unknown to me at the time, a new alternator as well). However, once I got dinged by that dealer on the s/w flash for something I didn't complain of, and the repair ticket got bigger and bigger (lower steering shaft, etc.), I gave up.

As it is, #1 pretty much stayed parked on my driveway all summer. I took off the winter tires and got a new set of BFGs put on pretty much for my youngest son's baptism, and other than a few family-hauler type missions during my vacation, the car basically moved from one side of my driveway to another depending on which Trans Am I was going to take.

Put yourself in my shoes: you look outside, it's a beautiful summer day. Do I take my newly freshened (suspension, exhaust, etc.) 1978 Trans Am? Do I take out my econo-yet-muscle-bound 1998 Trans Am and enjoy the day in utter creature comfort with 345-350 hp at the crank? Do I take out my darling 1987 GTA with its newly recharged A/C and feel 22 again? Or do I take the guzzling-at-idle belt-squealer steering-shaft-knocker rust-staining hunk of crap that'll blow blue smoke across my neighbor's driveway (to the right) when I fire it up?

Heck, replace the "beautiful summer day" with "remnants of Katrina" and I STILL chose my 1998 WS6 over MM#1. And I got caught in the rain twice with my '78...


Honestly, MM#2 is rekindling my enjoyment of driving a large car again. But for how long? Hopefully this one ages better than the 1st one. I suspect all that dumping of blue smoke must have had a side effect (deposits in the chambers, raising the chance of pinging?). I have my first appointment at the dealer this Wednesday with #2. If they can get the ride straightened out, I'll be happy. (oh, and the loose rear 'dome lights', which rattle over bumps).

In an ideal situation, I'd want MM#1's suspension behaviour and 'tightness' with MM#2's powertrain. I suspect #2's powertrain is simply behaving the way #1 did when new.


#1 won't be seeing any track duty under my ownership. To be honest, I don't think it'll even get to see the melting snow on my driveway, ever.

[SergntMac]

Maybe the newer castings have finally addressed this... I doubt it, since the 4V head is pretty much dead, replaced by the 3V unit as the Hi Perf motor du jour (although the early 3V Stangs were halted at the production line due to head problems). We've paid our money, we no longer represent any potential revenue for them. It was posted at Blue Oval News back in 2002, that the '03 Aviator and Mach I (both brand new applications of the 4V DOHC, along with the Marauder) were being held back at the end of the production line, and later sent out "off site" for engine repairs. It was never clear to me if the only heads were replaced, or the entire engine assembly. However, since then, there has not been any shortage of fresh crate engines, so, I'll presume whole engine swaps took place. The Marauder was not included in this program, probably because it's Mercury, and of limited production. '03 300As got the "540" engine, 300Bs and '04s should have the "542" engine.

I'm actually quite surprised the aftermarket hasn't taken a good hard look at the heads and determined the real underlying cause. I think they have, here are some upgrades

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/index.php?cPath=28

With respect to your rear end "looseness", consider replacing the sway bar bushings and upper and lower control arms (they come with fresh bushings). Look at it as a refreshment, not a mod, and you're still bone stock.

[Bruce Wayne]

hydraulic lash adjusters, don't even go there!

[SergntMac]

hydraulic lash adjusters, don't even go there! Tell us why not? It may be part of the problem, yes?

[Marauder2005]

Put yourself in my shoes: you look outside, it's a beautiful summer day. Do I take my newly freshened (suspension, exhaust, etc.) 1978 Trans Am? Do I take out my econo-yet-muscle-bound 1998 Trans Am and enjoy the day in utter creature comfort with 345-350 hp at the crank? Do I take out my darling 1987 GTA with its newly recharged A/C and feel 22 again? Or do I take the guzzling-at-idle belt-squealer steering-shaft-knocker rust-staining hunk of crap that'll blow blue smoke across my neighbor's driveway (to the right) when I fire it up?

So what do you do? you buy another one :rolleyes: :D

[TripleTransAm]

So what do you do? you buy another one :rolleyes: :D


A testimony to my open-mindedness... lots of folks reassuring me that they were entirely satisfied with their Marauders, I figured I got a "bad one". Of course, mere moments after I bought my second one, seems lots of satisfied owners came forth admitting to having endured stuff that seems to make my experiences merely annoyances (sporadic stalling, etc.). Go figure...

On the other hand, I've come to grips with what to expect. As things fail, I won't be so shocked anymore with this second car. I almost chuckle to myself when I see stuff like loose seat flaps, blue smoke at startup, missing grounds, endangered harnesses, all on the second MM in a row. When the switches start failing, the headlights start fogging, the window motors start dying, the alternators start flaking out, I won't lose sleep over it. Of course, the remaining factory warranty helps a great deal.

To be honest, I'll be happy if it doesn't leave me stranded several hundred miles from home like MM#1 did.

When this second one starts ticking or tapping as loud as #1, I'll just sell it to someone who'll believe that this is all normal.

[frdwrnch]

Check this out guys. I am currently wrestling with this issue on a stock '03 w/30000 miles on it. The problem did not develop until after the vehicle overheated due to a stuck thermostat. I had some luck with retorquing the camshaft mounting stantions. These support the camshafts and provide the upper wear surface of the camshaft journals. They must be torqued to spec, in sequence. These are also torque-to-yield bolts. That means the bolts actually stretch when you tighten them. So we retorqued the stantions and it did not resolve the issue in this vehicle. I did not watch the tech to make sure he precisely followed the procedure but he has done it successfully before.
So we started chasing the noise. Oddly enough, we noticed the noise went away when we removed the cam covers (I wanted to run the engine w/valvetrain exposed in order to isolate where it was coming from). Upon further inspection noticed that the cam cover fasteners screw directly into bosses machined in the cam stantions. If these are overtightened they will lift up on these stantions, reducing the clamping force on the cams, and possibly creating the noise.
Torque-to-yield bolts are not to be reused as the clamping force of the bolt changes after they stretch. I think the overheating created a tolerance issue at the stantions. The cam covers were probably overtorqued after retorquing the stantions and that is why the noise remained. I ordered new bolts and will attempt this process again tomorrow following the torquing procedure precisely. I'll post again with results.

[TripleTransAm]

I believe that was mentioned sometime in 2003 or early 2004, but you're the first person to actually give a detailed description of why it happens. Thanks.

When my new head began ticking again, I loosened the cam cover slightly but it did not change much, if at all. However, I'm wondering if I'd have had to replace the bolts on the stantions as well.

Silly design, if you ask me.

Thinking out loud: could the fact of our driver's heads running hot make it easier to distort stuff in that area? (but then again, there wouldn't be any relation between this and worn valve guides? and blue smoke?). Like I said, just thinking out loud...

[Vortech347]

Just how loud is this ticking? I can hear the cams working but nothing crazy. Are we talking "hear it in the car loud" "hear it with the hood closed" or "just hear it with the hood open"

DOHC's always tick. Hell my wife's Kia sounds like a crazy sewing machine. My mustang with its roller rockers sounds awefull the first minute or so of it running. The only tick I've ever had be fatal was the cam issue in my old V8 POS SHO.

[TripleTransAm]

If you do a search on this site, you'll find plenty of descriptions.

However, here's a quick summary: if you stand about 15 feet behind the car on the driver's side in a diagonal direction and can hear the 'tink tink tink tink' coming from the driver's side front wheelwell at idle, in my opinion that's not normal. Especially since the same experiment from the passenger's side yields total smooth silence. DOHCs on both sides of the engine, right?

And given the driver's side head's reputation for being the hottest point in the entire car at any given time (except if you've just picked up a bored exotic dancer), it adds to the suspicion that not all is healthy in that side of the motor, at the back end (it's always coming from the rear of the head, again the same number of cam lobes distributed evenly along the entire length of the head!).

And finally, when you have an exhaust valve face (from an affected cylinder) in your hand and can rock it side to side in its guide after pulling the head, it goes against the hi-tech image the motor's trying to make for itself (the blue smoke at startup is just icing on the cake, once you've felt the valve rocking away inside its guide).

If you don't hear any difference between both sides, you might be okay (supposedly, some early MMs had problems with the passenger's side head too). Rule of thumb, if you can stand at the back of the rear fenders of your car at hot idle and not hear distinct ticking coming from the front of the car, you're fine. On my MM#2, you have to practically stuff your head into the front driver's wheelwell to hear something, and at that point it might actually be a combination of normal valvetrain noise mixed with normal injector noise... I'm not worried about it at all on my MM#2, especially after driving MM#1 the other night and being reminded of what the tick actually sounded like... very distinctive (as we determined at our 2003 Hershey meet).

[MENINBLK]

... My dealer has sword up and down our motor is not the same as the Cobra.
He claimed we shard more componants with the Lincoln Aviator.
The service manager said the Aviator has the same tick.
I listened to a ... brand new 2003 Aviator, and yes it had the tick as well.
I went to another dealer who told me the same thing. ...

Short answer ... Yes and No.

The 4.6L DOHC Marauder/Aviator/Mustang GT engines are derived
from the Cobra 4.6L DOHC Engine.
They all share the same cylinder heads and lower intake manifold.
That's all...

The COBRA short block is, IIRC, Cast Iron with much stronger internals,
and the Mains have more bolts than ours.

The Marauder/Aviator/Mustang GT has an Aluminum block
with less expensive internals.

I can see the ticking problem being overtorquing of the Valve Cover fasteners,
cause it makes sense, and should get LOUDER as the engine gets warmer,
and the Valve Covers expand and pull on the fasteners even more.

I would try remounting the Valve covers with new fasteners,
and possibly use rubber washers between the fastener head and the valve cover
to give the valve cover room to expand.
It doesn't need much to expand, and the worst it can do is
isolate the Valve Cover from amplifying the ticking sound...

[hbarrett]

Fuel injectors are known to tick quite a bit as a noise normal to their operation. Could that be the ticking heard and not from the valvetrain?
So where is the ticking coming from? Bottom, Top end, everywhere?

[MENINBLK]

Fuel injectors are known to tick quite a bit as a noise normal to their operation. Could that be the ticking heard and not from the valvetrain?

This is not a FI tick.
FI tick has its own rhythm.
This one is out of rhythm.

[Vortech347]

So from what I've read if I have any ticking like that either the heads are SOL or the valve covers are a little snug?

I'll listen when I attempt to head in to work today. I havn't driven her since sunday since I've been home sicker than hell.

Is there a TSB for this? My car is still under 100% warranty and my best friend works for the service department at ford. I can get anything fixed. In fact its going in wends to get the deck or speaker replaced and possibly have a repaint of the roof and hood.