Marauder Ride

[Blackie]

:help: If I turn off the Air Suspension switch on my 2003 Marauder will it allow for a softer ride without causing any damage to the suspension system?

[JMan]

Welcome aboard! Enjoy your new ride.

To answer to your question in a word, no. No system has a perfect seal and they inherently leak a little over time. Your rear will start to sag ultimately and you'll hate that! That annoying light on your dash will irritate you as well. If these cars are new to you, it'll take a little getting used to. It's not a slushy little ricer or a FWD POS. You have a break-in period ahead that will change your outlook on how a car should drive and handle. But after that, go drive what you used to drive and see if there's any going back! Again, welcome aboard and embrace the experience!

J

[merc6]

Learn the vechicles tendencys and handeling. Turnuing radious is obsolete :burnout:

[MM2004]

Welcome to the collective!

IIRC, it is not recommended to leave the air ride off.

You'll get used to it along with your ***** eatin' grin driving her.

Mike.


:help: If I turn off the Air Suspension switch on my 2003 Marauder will it allow for a softer ride without causing any damage to the suspension system?

[DEFYANT]

Welcome to the Machine.

I got used to the air ride. I only turn it off at the track.

[CBT]

Welcome to the Machine.

I got used to the air ride. I only turn it off at the track. Why turn it off at the track? Is that one of those neat little tricks like pulling the headlight?

[Joe Walsh]

Why turn it off at the track? Is that one of those neat little tricks like pulling the headlight?

I'm guessing that: Air suspension 'OFF' = softer rear suspension = better weight transfer = better 60 FT time....

[Hotrauder]

Welcome to the assembledge, woof; the break in period involves 2 conditioning aspects, one in the right ankle the other is the azz. You will quickly adjust and soon wonder why you ever wanted a car in which those particular muscles were not constantly in use! Go for the gusto and remember, there is no turning back. Dennis

[Blackened300a]

Welcome to the Machine.

I got used to the air ride. I only turn it off at the track.

OK Fess up! Why turn it off at the track?? This is the First Im hearing of this and since you are now in the 11's, You are the Man to know!

[jgc61sr2002]

Blackie - Welcome to the MM site.:D
In time you will get used to the ride.
As stated above, leaving the switch off will effect the ride negatively.

[ctrcbob]

In Time I will get used to the ride???? Balderdash!!! It rides like a truck. Wish it had a slightly softer ride. My wife hates it and seldom wants to go out in my MM. When I drive her Continental, I have her suspension set to FIRM which I like, but still gives me a better ride than my MM.

[DEFYANT]

I'm guessing that: Air suspension 'OFF' = softer rear suspension = better weight transfer = better 60 FT time....

Cats outta the bag boys.

It might not be worth much, but it makes sence to me. :o ;)

[merc6]

I Guess I'm young cause I feel it's too soft.

[Wagonmaster]

Its hard to draw a fair conclusion when your comparing apples to oranges. Your Lincoln likely has a tire size in the 225/60 16 range, which will have much more sidewall (aspect ratio) than that of the Marauders 245/55 18 tire. Maybe try running a little less air pressure......just a thought.

GT


In Time I will get used to the ride???? Balderdash!!! It rides like a truck. Wish it had a slightly softer ride. My wife hates it and seldom wants to go out in my MM. When I drive her Continental, I have her suspension set to FIRM which I like, but still gives me a better ride than my MM.

[MENINBLK]

:help: If I turn off the Air Suspension switch on my 2003 Marauder will it allow for a softer ride without causing any damage to the suspension system?

You didn't buy your Marauder for the soft ride did you ???

The Marauder is the race bred version of the Crown Vic / Grand Marquis.
You are not going to get the ride any softer unless you change out the wheels and tires.
With the 18" wheels the ride is going to remain athe same no matter what you do.
If you go down to 16 wheels and tires, the ride will get softer
but it will still be harder than your Lincoln.

With time you and your wife will appreciate the confidence
the Marauder ride gives you.
Being able to FEEL the road, is what I've been looking for in any car,
and the Marauder gives you plenty of it.

[TooManyFords]

You didn't buy your Marauder for the soft ride did you ???

The Marauder is the race bred version of the Crown Vic / Grand Marquis.
You are not going to get the ride any softer unless you change out the wheels and tires.
With the 18" wheels the ride is going to remain athe same no matter what you do.
If you go down to 16 wheels and tires, the ride will get softer
but it will still be harder than your Lincoln.

With time you and your wife will appreciate the confidence
the Marauder ride gives you.
Being able to FEEL the road, is what I've been looking for in any car,
and the Marauder gives you plenty of it.

I have to chime in here...

You most certainly CAN soften up the ride without swapping the tires. I did it on mine. I think there's still a thread here somewhere that shows how I swapped in a set of 1965 Galaxie SensaTrac shocks on the rear to soften the ride. The reason the MM rides so harsh is almost all in the shocks and just a little in the front spring rates. If you were to unbolt the rear shocks and just drive it slowly (~25mph) over bumpy roads, you'll see that it may bounce a little, but the rear air bags just eat those bumps up.

The factory shocks are made for handling and not for a cushy ride. I used to be waiting for the SensaTracs for a Crown Vic or GM to come out, but I'm pretty sure this spring I'm going to try out the Naake system. Their shocks have 2-way valving that I plan on setting to the "mushiest" setting to see if I too can get a smooth ride.

If you want that better ride right now, you could buy GM factory shocks and that should mush it up a bit for you.

Cheers

John

[Rider90]

I have 320 lbs of salt in the back, 70 or so lbs of audio equipment, and 16" steelies with snow tires @ 35 psi - it rides a little better. Not great, and nothing near a Town Car or Grand Marquis - but it rides pretty good for the Marauder that it is. If you want a soft ride, anything can be done, but you'll float around some corners in the exchange.

[Hotrauder]

My guess, wrong car for the application. If not to drive fast and handle in the twisties...why own it? CV's and GM's are great shopping center, haul the grandkids to Santa..ooops, nope kids like to go fast....take everything you own for a ride cars. The Marauder IMHO is performance car that with a few mods will amaze. Dennis:) No flames intended, friend.

[Joe Walsh]

Cats outta the bag boys.

It might not be worth much, but it makes sence to me. :o ;)

As Colonel Klink & Artie Johnson would say: "Interesting...Very Interesting!"

Iz ziss somesing zat you Trilogy boys have been hiding??

[DeadVic]

In Time I will get used to the ride???? Balderdash!!! It rides like a truck. Wish it had a slightly softer ride. My wife hates it and seldom wants to go out in my MM. When I drive her Continental, I have her suspension set to FIRM which I like, but still gives me a better ride than my MM.

LOL...

My wife likes a hard ride....sorry, couldn't pass that up! :pimp:

[merc6]

Yep 16's did make it ride smoother but...tire roll and traction is a bi... Steelies aren't ugly in my book but the factory rims are the only way most people can even identify our cars.

[mtnh]

Very early on in this great site, one of the vehicle's engineers was a frequent contributor. His username was "Brian". In his writings, I think publicly, although we exchanged quite a few PMs, he eluded to the fact that the rear suspension was going to provide a harsh ride due to the suspension travel being limited due to the size of the rear tires. You simply don't have the ability to compress the rear axle due to the fact that the tires would bottom out into the fenders with a stock grand marquis shock. That is a major contributor to the harsh rear end suspension. If you search on Brian's postings, you may find out more about this, in his own words.

As for ctrcbob's complaints, he's had his MM for long enough, there is no reason to think that his wife and himself are going to be any happier with the car the way that it rides.

[SergntMac]

Turning off the rear air suspension does not soften the ride, not immediately that is, unless something is broken.

Turning off the air suspension does not release any suspension PSI, you're only shutting off the compressor. The suspension system should maintain the PSI present when you turned it off, but as the system ages, small leaks will develop in a natural aging process, the same way a fully charged battery will eventually go dead if left undisturbed long enough. It will trickle down.

The caution to turn it off the air suspension when jacking, is to avoid automatic load leveling when the suspension is extended due to jacking. Ever notice the extension of a livery limo at the airport once they have dropped their load? It takes a while to level out again.

The benefit at the race track stems from preventing a reaction to load when you do a burnout, or, launch the car from the line. Keeping the car planted and flat will provide more consistent traction during a hard launch. The system reacts very quickly, and if you leave the air suspension on in the water box, you will change your traction at the tree.

If you know this, you can work with it, it's not a problem. But, I do not believe most folks give it a second thought. Leave it on, or, turn it off, either way just train with it, and you'll do better at the track.

[TripleTransAm]

Just thinking out loud... under hard acceleration, could the rear end squat enough such that the auto-levelling feature would kick in and begin to inflate the rear bags? To inflate the rear bags requires the compressor to operate. And the compressor operation requires power, thereby siphoning off power that would otherwise be useful in acceleration? (ie. same concept as turning off electrical accessories in order to conserve power for the run? Perhaps the compressor kicking in conspires to lower available voltage at the tail end of a run when the PCM has turned off the alternator?)

[SergntMac]

Just thinking out loud... under hard acceleration, could the rear end squat enough such that the auto-levelling feature would kick in and begin to inflate the rear bags? Yes, and exactly my point. If you skipped the water box burnout, adjustments to load leveling would occur during the pass down the track.

To inflate the rear bags requires the compressor to operate. And the compressor operation requires power, thereby siphoning off power that would otherwise be useful in acceleration? (ie. same concept as turning off electrical accessories in order to conserve power for the run? Perhaps the compressor kicking in conspires to lower available voltage at the tail end of a run when the PCM has turned off the alternator?) Yes, again. This would be most likely in mildly modded MMs, where special attention has not been paid to other systems. But, it is (in theory) correct.

[Badger]

I'm still having problems with the fact that someone bought a MM looking for a soft suspension. Do your homework!!!

[Warpath]

Things to keep in mind: 1) I believe the alternator clutch disengages during WOT. So, if the compressor turns on during a trip down the track, it won't suck power from the engine, just the battery. 2) The compressor doesn't turn on until the ride height sensor sees its out of its normal ride height zone for a period of time. I don't think an MM can accelerate fast enough and long enough to compress the suspension far enough to kick the compressor on. But, that's a thought only with no back up proof.

[SergntMac]

Things to keep in mind: 1) I believe the alternator clutch disengages during WOT. So, if the compressor turns on during a trip down the track, it won't suck power from the engine, just the battery. 2) The compressor doesn't turn on until the ride height sensor sees its out of its normal ride height zone for a period of time. I don't think an MM can accelerate fast enough and long enough to compress the suspension far enough to kick the compressor on. But, that's a thought only with no back up proof. Happy holidays, Joe.

[TripleTransAm]

Things to keep in mind: 1) I believe the alternator clutch disengages during WOT.

We covered this elsewhere... there appears to be no connection between the alternator clutch and the PCM, so any clutching action is actually an overrun to allow the alternator to slow down more gradually than the engine speed on an upshift. The PCM will turn off the charging function, though.

Also, I've experienced many situations of getting into the car and having the suspension readjust itself once I came to a stop at an intersection, some 3-4 minutes later after the startup. I'm not sure what prompts it to adjust it at that point and not while it's sitting idling after the startup on level ground, like it does the other 80-90% of the time. Would be interesting to know what the resolution is on the levelling system, and the threshold time for commanding compressor action.

About the ride: one man's plush ride is another man's nightmare, and vice versa. Those of us on this site as of Jan 2003 might recall my less-than-stellar opinion of the 2003 Town Car's suspension when I rented a low mileage unit in San Diego, which reinforced my desire for the Marauder's increased suspension control (which I consider more 'confortable' than the floppy jiggly Town Car).

Another thing to consider is that I'm convinced not all Marauders ride the same. Whether it was a silent change in valving or specs during production or just a matter of premature wearing out of some units, my two MMs differ so greatly in their ride. I love the way my MM#1 rides: firm, controlled yet compliant, silent, steady as a rock. My MM#2, though, seems to remind me of that horrific week I spent with the Town Car in San Diego... jiggly and floppy and not terribly controlled, yet stiff! If I only owned MM#2, I would have most likely hated the ride after a month or two (as I am starting to). After having MM#1 for nearly 3 years, I know there's hope for MM#2's ride.

[Eric91Z]

I would have to agree that there is some variation. Over a year ago, I test drove a 2004 that was a dealership demo with 5000 miles on it. The front end bounced pretty bad like the shocks were bad. This mostly happened out on the highway if you hit a bump or dip in the road. Not controlled.

I bought my 2004 this past September with 5600 miles on it and completely different ride to it. Then again, my current car was bought new by the original owner in late August 2004 with 17 miles on it and he only put 5600 miles on it in 1 year. And it was very well taken care of - looked like it just came off the showroom floor. It was definitely not beat on at all.

[TripleTransAm]

If there is one thing I hate, it's suspension diagnosis. I'd rather have a molar pulled out through my anus than have to diagnose my own cars' suspension woes.

Reasons:

1) with the exception of my Civics (which never broke *****, the little stubborn b*stards), my cars tend to be on the high-performance side. As such, it's tough to find someone who knows enough about the car's expected ride to be able to detect what exactly is wrong. I guess it's because ride quality is so subjective, and I am really sensitive to a car's handling and feedback.

2) diagnosis is sometimes hard with high performance suspensions. My GTA had a dead shock in the passenger rear when I bought it, yet all bounce tests passed (motion completely damped on the 1st rebound, no bounce at all!). The car handled awesome, there was no noise (no popping or other 'dead shock'-like sounds), it sat level... nothing to indicate a problem other than my dad having a 'hunch' based on ONE ride in the back seat during my initial test drive. That shock had NO rebound resistance whatsoever while compression was fine, when I removed it a few months later! The stiff "WS6"-spec springs and sway bar must have somehow made up for one side being dead like that. And yet I noticed NO change in the ride when I replaced both rear shocks... I was happy to have done it, but frustrated that I couldn't catch it through the usual tests.

[Warpath]

We covered this elsewhere... there appears to be no connection between the alternator clutch and the PCM, so any clutching action is actually an overrun to allow the alternator to slow down more gradually than the engine speed on an upshift. The PCM will turn off the charging function, though...

I couldn't remember exactly. I don't really have a need for that tidbit of information. So, I don't retain it well.

I'm not sure how the air suspension works. But, there needs to be some logic which basically allows it to know the suspension is at a particular height because of weight or temp change or whatever and not because of something instantaneous like a speed bump. It adjusts height by adding or removing pressure while it monitors height. It doesn't take a snap shot and know that, for example, it needs to add a 1/4" and does it while you drive. It has to wait until you stop so that it knows where it really is (if that makes sense).

I'm by no means a suspension "expert." But, I have learned quite a bit more than the average Joe during my 5 years at work. What I've seen on the internet is that people misinterpret expected improvements in suspension as actual improvements. For example, lowering a suspension typically degrades handling depending on the suspension type and geometry. However, when a person makes this mod, they expect an improvement and perceive an improvement as a result. But, IMO, the improvement may come from an increase in confidence and, therefore, the person pushes the vehicle further than they normally would. If you were to perform some tests, you could show a degradation in lateral g's or show the roll center moved down etc. (These comments aren't directed at you TTA. Just some comments off the top of my head.)


Happy holidays, Joe.

Same to you Mac, have a safe and joyous holiday.

[TripleTransAm]

But, there needs to be some logic which basically allows it to know the suspension is at a particular height because of weight or temp change or whatever and not because of something instantaneous like a speed bump.

I agree. I imagine there must be some sort of time delay to begin with, to avoid considering the momentary suspension deflections as height changes. Perhaps in combination with a small window of tolerance to avoid over cycling the suspension system to deal with little things like road surface level changes. I suppose a really well designed system would also include speed feedback?

Looking at the wiring diagram, I can understand the connection between the air suspension module and the compressor relay and the air bag valves and also taking input from the height sensors and pressure reservoir switch, but why in the world does the air suspension module feed switched power to the power steering??? There is also a connection to the PCM for some reason. And, of all things, a connection to the lighting control module!!! I wish someone could explain that to me, I'm very curious about the reason a suspension system would need to consider the lighting control module or affect the power steering...

[Warpath]

I read someplace (I think Truckin magazine) that OEMs are integrating systems to save on wiring. So, instead of running individual power lines to each system, they are daisy chained in order to save some wiring costs. They are switched in order to save some switching costs I'm guessing. The PCM connection probably feeds vehicle speed or engine speed so that it knows when its stopped. If the lighting control and power steering modules actually feed a usuable signal, I can only guess that it may have something to do with electrical power conservation so that all three are not running at the same time. I also believe Panthers increase idle speed when the power steering is engaged so that a smaller pump could be used (at low speeds). Maybe that has something to do with it. These are all guesses.