Steeda UDs = Cooling problems?

[GodOSpeed]

I'll set the stage here..

The other day I started my car and let it run for a few minutes. Jumped in and when I got to the crossing I noticed my temp a little above normal. I drove it about an 1/8 mile when the temp started to look spooky. I came to a stop and opened my door to listen for the electric fan. Nothing! I shut it off and started it back up and the fan kicked in. I popped the hood and seen it pushing a little coolant out of the overflow. Temps soon dropped to operating range and I drove it back home. I filled it back up (about 4-5 oz) and jumped in. No heat @ idle. I spun her up to about 2 grand and she would blow heat let her idle and nothing. I had my wife get in and rev it up so I could watch the coolant level and no change.

I brought it in for service yesterday. (eight days left on warrenty)
I recived my call back today from the Service Manager.
He said my thermostat was slow to respond and they replaced it. But apparently that wasnt it and he says the waterpump must have gone south.
He figures that the oversized pully is turning the pump too slow and that it is the cause for the overheating. he also stated that he cant replace it under warrenty because of the aftermaket add on.

I argued with him that if the fan would have kicked in like its supposed to that the thermostat and waterpump would have never failed. He said he would look into it and give me a call a 2:00.

I read a few posts that had similar issues and I was wondering if it just us Steeda equiped guys or if this has happened to any stockers?

[MarauderMarc]

Im having the same problem. If thats the case, they will come right off!!!!

[RF Overlord]

I had the Steeda U/D pulleys on my car for over 2 years with no cooling or heating problems at all, so I doubt that's your problem.

The only issues I had were the lights dimming slightly at idle, and the A/C lost a little effectiveness at idle, too. Dennis bumped my idle-in-drive up about 100 RPM and that cured both issues.

It sounds more like you've got an air bubble in the system, which is quite common. You might try the air-purge procedure that's been posted a few dozen times here before paying the dealer to replace your water pump ($$$).

[Hotrauder]

I had the DR stage one with Steeda UD's and idle set at about 9K. No problems at all, ever and Central Fl. is a good test of cooling ability both engine and cabin. No sign of any problems at all. I credit the good job that DR did with the mods. Dennis:beer:

[Blackened300a]

I have over 10k trouble free miles with my U/D's

[Dennis Reinhart]

I'll set the stage here..

The other day I started my car and let it run for a few minutes. Jumped in and when I got to the crossing I noticed my temp a little above normal. I drove it about an 1/8 mile when the temp started to look spooky. I came to a stop and opened my door to listen for the electric fan. Nothing! I shut it off and started it back up and the fan kicked in. I popped the hood and seen it pushing a little coolant out of the overflow. Temps soon dropped to operating range and I drove it back home. I filled it back up (about 4-5 oz) and jumped in. No heat @ idle. I spun her up to about 2 grand and she would blow heat let her idle and nothing. I had my wife get in and rev it up so I could watch the coolant level and no change.

I brought it in for service yesterday. (eight days left on warrenty)
I recived my call back today from the Service Manager.
He said my thermostat was slow to respond and they replaced it. But apparently that wasnt it and he says the waterpump must have gone south.
He figures that the oversized pully is turning the pump too slow and that it is the cause for the overheating. he also stated that he cant replace it under warrenty because of the aftermaket add on.

I argued with him that if the fan would have kicked in like its supposed to that the thermostat and waterpump would have never failed. He said he would look into it and give me a call a 2:00.

I read a few posts that had similar issues and I was wondering if it just us Steeda equiped guys or if this has happened to any stockers?

This is not a common problem with UDP what can happen is after there added the car does idle lower which can have a effect on the charging system, I raise the idle in drive 200 RPM to compensate for this, it is true the larger watter pump pully does allow the pump to turn slower but not to the point of a over heating issue, there are probably fifty or members that have UDP as well as hundreds of Cobra and Mach 1 customers that have never had this issue, again I feel its stat related and or just a air pockett, and I suppose the WP could go bad but it is nor because of UDP.

[FordNut]

I had the Steeda U/D pulleys on my car for over 2 years with no cooling or heating problems at all, so I doubt that's your problem.

The only issues I had were the lights dimming slightly at idle, and the A/C lost a little effectiveness at idle, too. Dennis bumped my idle-in-drive up about 100 RPM and that cured both issues.

It sounds more like you've got an air bubble in the system, which is quite common. You might try the air-purge procedure that's been posted a few dozen times here before paying the dealer to replace your water pump ($$$).
I agree... I ran the underdrives about 2 years with no problems, took them off to go with electric water pump and supercharger.
Probably an air pocket in the cooling system.

[cyclone03]

I'm at 49,000 miles and the pulley have been on from 1500 miles.
No problem in over 3 years.

You got air.

[Donny Carlson]

There's an air bubble all right... between the service manager's ears. How the devil does the pump turning slower cause it to fail? It doesn't stay at a fixed turning speed like the electric pump, so at what RPM is he referring to? Idle speed?

I can understand not covering the aftermarket pully, but the pump? Just an excuse to shake some coin out of your pockets.

Hell, I GAVE my OEM pump to the new owner of my Marauder. If I still had it, I'd a sent it to you for free!

[valleyman]

I've had u/d pulleys on for over 25k miles with no heating problems and I live in a hot climate.

[metroplex]

The 96-01 GT and Cobra underdrive pulleys are the same, the only differences were the alternator pulleys (GT used 6G, Cobra used 4G). Then in 01.5-up, the water pump pulleys changed (concave vs convex) but AFAIK the Crank pulleys were the same.

My 00 Vic had the pre-01.5 Cobra pulley kit (everything fit properly) but after a few years I'd get a loud ticking noise from the engine. After reading abouthow the smaller diameter damper is less effective at dampening the harmonic vibrations and can lead to oil pump failure at higher RPMs, I swapped to a new replacement Dorman crank pulley (stock pulley looked beat up) and the ticking noise was reduced significantly.

Seeing how your Marauders can rev much higher than 6000 RPM, I'd avoid smaller diameter dampers, but SLP makes an underdrive crank pulley with the stock diameter damper. Think of a billet steel pulley with a smaller pulley that has the 6-rib grooves, but with a stock diameter damper on the front end. I have not personally used this product, but it should be better than the Steeda crank.

Now, you're going to say, "but there are thousands ofpeople running the Steedas for years..." and yes that is true. But there are a few threads floating around Corral and MD by some experts regarding oil pump gear failure at higher RPMs. Granted, these higher RPMs may not be attained w/o modified tunes and what not, but it still makes you wonder. I personally did not feel a difference in power/performance going back to the stock pulleys. I do notice increased charging (voltage is 14.2-14.3V now), more power steering assist (wow, easier to turn the wheel at low speeds), and more efficient A/C compressor operation. I never noticed anything in regards to cooling though. I use the Cobra water pump with the high RPM efficient impeller (it's supposed to be less efficient at low RPMs).

[SergntMac]

I recived my call back today from the Service Manager.
He said my thermostat was slow to respond and they replaced it. But apparently that wasnt it and he says the waterpump must have gone south.
He figures that the oversized pully is turning the pump too slow and that it is the cause for the overheating. he also stated that he cant replace it under warrenty because of the aftermaket add on. This is pure BS. If it were factual, you would have had problems from the day you installed your pulleys. My bets are on a bad fan, maybe a stuck t-stat, and for sure, no heat is an air bubble in the system, which would cause the other symptoms as well. Slow pump my azz...

I read a few posts that had similar issues and I was wondering if it just us Steeda equiped guys or if this has happened to any stockers? I haven read any posts here that claim the UD pulleys cause overheating. It may have been asked, but the answer is no.

Just how slow do you think the pump is turning in relation to the OEM pulley? If if you are overheating from a UD pulley change, dude, you gotta stop cruising at 6000 RPM, K? It's just not good on stuff long term...

[GodOSpeed]

My question is how the heck does this mysterious "air bubble" appear?
Possibly from a electric fan that has its own mind about hot and cold? Shooting your temp gage into the straotosphere and boiling out a portion of the coolant in your block while heat soaking everything in its path?

It doesnt sound like just a litte "air bubble" when put like that does it?
Just how many of these visious cycles could our aluminum motors take?

Once is plenty for me thank you. Mabe even too many.

On another note about this...
I dont think alot of people whould relize that they had this "air bubble" unless they had to use thier defroster to clear the windsheild. Or run in a climate where a change in heater output is as noticable as it is here. As mine as stated now runs in normal operating range and blows heat while @ crusing speed.
ie. garage @ home to garage @ work in cold snowy climates. with no reason to let idle.

If this is my falut for being 300 rpm down then I am truly sorry I didnt send my chip to Dennis. I guess I didnt think it through about idleing in the winter months. I wasnt really conserned about 'dim' lights @ stop lights. As they usually brighten up real good soon after:sunshine:!! ;)

[Dennis Reinhart]

?

If this is my falut for being 300 rpm down then I am truly sorry I didnt send my chip to Dennis. I guess I didnt think it through about idleing in the winter months. I wasnt really conserned about 'dim' lights @ stop lights. As they usually brighten up real good soon after:sunshine:!! ;)

Well it is a easy fix and its free

[Petrograde]

No big probs so far with my UDPs. I did notice last night, when backing into my garage that my headlights dimmed like hell when I pressed the brakes. My voltmeter dropped to 11. When I put it in park, and let off the brake the headlights brightened back up, and my volt guage jumped to 14. ...that seems a bit much to me.

Also, the radio was off. Only the defroster and lights were on.

weird.

[jparrie]

I had the DR stage one with Steeda UD's and idle set at about 9K. No problems at all, ever and Central Fl. is a good test of cooling ability both engine and cabin. No sign of any problems at all. I credit the good job that DR did with the mods. Dennis:beer:


That seems a little high on the idle. How do you get it into the garage without running into the wall? :burnout:

[Blackened300a]

I had the DR stage one with Steeda UD's and idle set at about 9K.

WOW 9K! You must go through rear tires at every Traffic light!
At least your car warms up in about 30 seconds in the cold morning.
:lol:

[Donny Carlson]

No big probs so far with my UDPs. I did notice last night, when backing into my garage that my headlights dimmed like hell when I pressed the brakes. My voltmeter dropped to 11. When I put it in park, and let off the brake the headlights brightened back up, and my volt guage jumped to 14. ...that seems a bit much to me.

Also, the radio was off. Only the defroster and lights were on.

weird.

The blower motor has a huge appetitve for volts. My old MM with the digitals and UDP's, ac blowing high, night with lights on, foot on brake, volts would dip into the 11's. Normal with the UDP's. It would be a problem only if you stayed in that state for a long time.

[metroplex]

I noticed brand new batteries would drop into the 11.8-11.9V DC range when at rest and left uncharged overnight, with the UDPs.

[fastblackmerc]

I've had Steeda UD's on for almost 2 years now (was the first mod I did, now I can't stop!!!). Bought a Xcal from DR with a tune that raised the idle speed by 200RPM. Have not had any problems with cooling or charging since installing.

[SergntMac]

I noticed brand new batteries would drop into the 11.8-11.9V DC range when at rest and left uncharged overnight, with the UDPs. I noticed that my windshield washer spray would not spray as high on the glass with the UDPs, but when I brake torqued up to my stall, the washer fluid would squirt over my car, and douse anyone behind me...Weird.

[metroplex]

I've had Steeda UD's on for almost 2 years now (was the first mod I did, now I can't stop!!!). Bought a Xcal from DR with a tune that raised the idle speed by 200RPM. Have not had any problems with cooling or charging since installing.

I've set my idle speed to 700 RPM with the Steeda UDPs and within 1-2 years the battery voltage would drop to 30% SOC. I've gone through 2 batteries like this and I do not use any large power drawing accessories with the engine off. I drive my car every single day and take it up to speed. :help: There isn't any significant parasitic drain, if there was, the battery would be drained completely or nearly dead within a short period of time. No, it will keep it around 11.8V for an entire week if you don't drive it.

Going to the stock alternator pulley with the Steeda UD crank helped with the headlight dimming at idle, but the alternator charging voltage was still below 14V. Now with all STOCK pulleys, my cold charge voltage is 14.7V-14.8V, and at operating temps with ambient at 20F-30F, it's 14.2V-14.3V.

Patrol Officer Mac likes to make jokes, but in all seriousness, after having Steeda pulleys and reading about the issues with the oil pump and front crank harmonic vibrations, coupled with me going through 2 batteries (Optima Red and Sears Die Hard Gold), I'll pass and would not recommend them to anyone I know. My alternator just turned 23k miles old today. I seriously doubt it is "worn out".

I could have tried idling at 800RPM-900RPM in gear, but screw that. The car practically launches as soon as you let off the brakes.

How fast do you rev your Marauder motors? Do you go above 6000 RPM frequently? I'd recommend you do a few searches on Corral and Modular Depot for posts by Boss 330 regarding oil pump gear failures and Steeda / smaller diameter underdrive crankshaft pulleys.

If I wanted to go with UDPs again, I'd probably only consider SLP with the stock diameter dampener (1 piece SFI certified design).

[Marauder2005]

I've set my idle speed to 700 RPM with the Steeda UDPs and within 1-2 years the battery voltage would drop to 30% SOC. I've gone through 2 batteries like this and I do not use any large power drawing accessories with the engine off. I drive my car every single day and take it up to speed. :help: There isn't any significant parasitic drain, if there was, the battery would be drained completely or nearly dead within a short period of time. No, it will keep it around 11.8V for an entire week if you don't drive it.

Going to the stock alternator pulley with the Steeda UD crank helped with the headlight dimming at idle, but the alternator charging voltage was still below 14V. Now with all STOCK pulleys, my cold charge voltage is 14.7V-14.8V, and at operating temps with ambient at 20F-30F, it's 14.2V-14.3V.

Patrol Officer Mac likes to make jokes, but in all seriousness, after having Steeda pulleys and reading about the issues with the oil pump and front crank harmonic vibrations, coupled with me going through 2 batteries (Optima Red and Sears Die Hard Gold), I'll pass and would not recommend them to anyone I know. My alternator just turned 23k miles old today. I seriously doubt it is "worn out".

I could have tried idling at 800RPM-900RPM in gear, but screw that. The car practically launches as soon as you let off the brakes.

How fast do you rev your Marauder motors? Do you go above 6000 RPM frequently? I'd recommend you do a few searches on Corral and Modular Depot for posts by Boss 330 regarding oil pump gear failures and Steeda / smaller diameter underdrive crankshaft pulleys.

If I wanted to go with UDPs again, I'd probably only consider SLP with the stock diameter dampener (1 piece SFI certified design).

Metro, I would'nt be worried about all that. You can just go back to the

police/taxi auction and pic up another Vic, you might get lucky and

it might still have the spot light on it! :P

[GodOSpeed]

Service Manager called again.

After they purged the air and replaced t-stat its getting heat @ idle.

He stated that there is a Special Service Message #16747 that may apply to the fan not kicking in and is in the process of looking into it next.
He also said it got to a high temp of 245, bumped the rev limter once, and I had farted in the drivers seat three times.
( :D one or more of these #s may have been altered in order to save face!) ;)

[1stMerc]

I've heard the negatives, now i need to hear the benefits of installing underdrive pulleys.

[Dennis Reinhart]

I've heard the negatives, now i need to hear the benefits of installing underdrive pulleys.

UDP are fine as long as you raise the idle to compensate for this, UDP can void the warranty if the dealer is a BH I know of no oter draw backs to using these besides gaining RWHP

[frdwrnch]

THERMOSTAT! I'll bet. We have had a run on these at the shop. Three in Three months on Marauders. One of these overheated the engine to the point that it developed two engine noises soon after and the water pump started leaking soon after as well. That mm was the subject of my uncompleted post on engine ticking. I did not finish it because this car was damaged and the concern was not consistent with the tick that we have discussed before.
I run a pulley kit and only had low voltage issues until a reprogram. Never runs hot.
Put a stat in it. The concern may not duplicate itself for a while, but it might at the worst time!

[Glenn]

I have had UPDs for nearly 3 years and idle is 800 rpm and with a 180 stat. Sure I get a little light dimming at idle, but no big deal. A/C is fine even in Atlanta, no cooling problems ever and I have the original battery at 47,000 miles. The secret is to drive the car hard like it was enginered by Steve Badcock. It is not a GM drive it like a MM.

Glenn

[metroplex]

I had Steeda U/D's for my 00 Vic (same pulley set as the Cobra actually, so it DOES apply to 4Vs...) for 5 years. I never had cooling issues but I did have charging problems. Even idling at 800 RPM in gear, the battery would slowly drain out over 1-2 years to the point that it was about 11.8V DC in the winter at rest/uncharged. It will start the car just fine but that's too low.

I am now running stock pulleys with a 580 RPM idle in gear (I can't do 560 w/o a lopey idle because of the camshafts).

[RF Overlord]

I've heard the negatives, now i need to hear the benefits of installing underdrive pulleys.The positives are: you gain a real-world 4 HP and 7 TQ, or maybe the other way 'round (Mac?), which doesn't sound like much, but the motor seems to spool up quicker...throttle response is a little better. UDPs are not a huge gainer, but for about $200 including installation, they DO make a SOTP difference.

[SergntMac]

RF OverLord is on the right track. As I recall it, my dyno testing of the UDPs for the Marauder delivered 7 RWHP, 4 RWTQ. And this is just dyno testing, which is half the story. The other half, as mentioned, is reducing parasitic drag in the powertrain, and allowing the engine to spool up faster and get into the power band earlier. On a N/A Marauder, this is very important to performance early on, and without spending a lot of money.

Sometimes the answer is in old school technology. Remember that there is a set screw on the throttle linkage you can use to adjust the idle without getting any special tune.

Heat loss at idle? Same fix, bump the idle a tad. However, if you have a loss of heat at idle, you are clearly low on coolant, and there may be an air bubble in the system.

No matter how slow the pump turns, it's still a working pump. But, it's got to have something to pump, right?

[natedog1284]

I had this original overheating problem too. I replaced the thermostat twice, and then found out it was replaced under warranty by the guy who owned it before me. When it first started doing it to me, it would get really warm, but when I stomped the gas, (the first time out of frustration) it would immediately go back down, so I was thinking air bubble. Last summer, when I was stationed down in Dover, DE for a few weeks, it got so bad I had to take it to a Ford dealer down there to take a look at it. (That's when I found out it had already had a thermostat change before I bought it.) They diagnosed it as the water pump, and for a time after that it was fine, even on the 350 mile trip back to CT. But right after I had my headers put on, it started doing it again. So I took it to a LM service center down the road from me, and they told me there was a problem with the head, but they didn't specify. So I took it to a radiator shop and they pressure checked it for me; they too diagnosed it as a cracked head. The theory that I and my local mechanic devised is that it must have had this problem from the factory, and as exhaust gases were being blown into the coolant, it kept remaking air bubbles which blocked the thermostat. And each time it overheated, the crack got a little wider. This theory has yet to be confirmed, but I'm like 99% sure that's what's going on. There are bubbles/foam in the coolant, but I'm not loosing coolant or blowing any white smoke, so I don't think it's the head gasket. I'm going to find out when I put my new heads on at the end of the month (I ordered cobra racing heads and stage 2 cams :D). Just figured I'd share my experience and let everyone know in case it happens to them!
-Nate