Stock RMS/Peak watts for Mach system?

[Vortech347]

Found out why my stereo sounds so bad.

The drivers side speaker was frozen/Blown. Doh!

I'm gona order something new for the front. What is the RMS and peak of the factory mach system? I don't want to get a speaker thats over kill or too wossy.

[RF Overlord]

I think the Mach system only came in Mustangs...The MM allegedly has an Alpine system, but it's probably just a fancy Visteon...not sure if I've ever seen the power output specs on it, but many people here have used Infinity (me), Polk, Boston Acoustics, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc with good results.

[Vortech347]

Intresting.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-4lFRhkXGABl/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=400&I=1086810CS

I've got a set of these coming for the front. up to 90 watts RMS and 270 max.

[rayjay]

FWIW, I test drove a 04 Mustang GT with the Mach 1000 system. Spent 15 minutes messing with it, worst sounding factory system I've ever heard and it took up all the useable space in the trunk. Get the Infinities.

[GreekGod]

Since Infinity claims 2 watts will drive them, they might sound pretty good, IF they really are that efficient! My Boston Acoustic 5X7's are not as loud as the OEM speakers, which to my Golden ears actually sound pretty good for a $5 OEM speaker.

[Vortech347]

Well the OEM speakers in my Explorer were out standing. Even the little sub in the back sounded great. I didn't dink with that stereo at all. It was a Mach.

In the MM I hate the sub....it sounds distorted as hell. I might make some sort of custom 8" box and put it where the stock sub is.

[SergntMac]

My '97 Mountaineer came with a kickazz JBL system from the factory, my '98 and 2000 came with the new "Mach" system. Yuk...

When the L/M telephone poll on customer satisfaction got around to me, I told them that they spelled Mach wrong, it's spelled m o c k.

I have never found the Alpine/Marauder system pleasing, or, problem free, and this is my third Marauder now.

To answer the power question, the Alpine/Marauder system puts out 12 watts RMS in each of the four channels. The sub woofer is rated at 100 watts peak, but it's actually 50 watts RMS. It would sound better had it been installed correctly, but it's okay I guess, until it breaks and then, it's just not worth repairing.

In fact, the stock head unit in my #3 is having problems, and I'm not ready to get into that build up right now, so, I'm looking for a replacement at a fair price. Anyone?

[the_pack_rat]

As it was said, we are suppossed to have an Alpine.

Machs came in Explorers - Mountaineers and Mustangs I believe(poss others).

I had the Mach system in both a 2000 & 2001 Mountaineer & I was quite happy with them both. In fact, I much prefer the look/setup of factory dual-media headunits in those over what we have. Those dual-media head units looked like they were designed from the get-go to be as such. I always thought what we have, looks more like an after-thought(originally meant to be only ONE or the other - NOT both CD/Cass).

Got a friend w/a fairly basic 2005 Escape. 4cyl/auto - 2WD - pwr win/lcks/tilt/cruise/single in-dash CD/no rear tinted glass. Obviously a lower-end "upgrade" pkg of some sort.

When I first bought my MM, the base CD player in that, put the MM sound system to SHAME, not to mention she has the DELAYED accessory power we don't. :rolleyes:

Thankfully a set of Infinities & removing the foam thingie from the subwoofer fixed the sound issue in a jiffy.

Still would like my delayed accessory power tho ..... always enjoyed that in the Town Car.

[Mard]

My previous car was a Mach Audio Limited Edition Focus. The stereo is the only thing I miss about that car...oh...and the HID headlamps. Believe me that's all I miss.

The link below claims 460 watts.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/03/29/038013.html

[Marauder2005]

I think the Mach system only came in Mustangs...The MM allegedly has an Alpine system, but it's probably just a fancy Visteon...not sure if I've ever seen the power output specs on it, but many people here have used Infinity (me), Polk, Boston Acoustics, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc with good results.
According to my Marauder "quick reference guide" we have Audiophile,

and I do agree they stink. I thought I read some where the '04s have the

Alpine, Im not sure as I have an 03'

[Vortech347]

Only 12 watts per channel? Please tell me your joking.....Holy crap I went overkill. What a weak system!!!

[GreekGod]

Only 12 watts per channel? Please tell me your joking.....Holy crap I went overkill. What a weak system!!!

12 watts might even be an exaggeration! In the olden days of console stereo and televisions, manufacturers would make outlandish power claims. 500 or more watts was common. They might say it was "IPP watts" rated power which was some kind of "Instantaneous Power Peak".

As Mac stated, the Alpine sub-amp is supposed to be 100w RMS, and is also said to be 50w RMS. Root Mean Square (RMS) sounds real good, right? Figures don't lie but liars sure do figure. Many manufacturers double or triple their watt ratings. True and honest ratings are at a inaudible distortion level or even well below it.

If you disassembled a MM radio and id'd the amplifier power transistors I'm sure one would find they are only rated for maybe 4 watts! They can claim more because they might put out 2x for a millisecond at 10% distortion-same for the sub-amp.

The hype is like selling something made out of aluminum and calling it rustproof. Aluminum doesn't rust because it is non-ferrous, but it certainly does corrode. MOSFET is short for Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor and that sure sounds good "hype wise" to know it is in your stereo but it doesn't mean doodly squat.

[TripleTransAm]

Don't forget a lot of manufacturers will add all the channels together when quoting RMS. For example, some claims of 100W RMS will actually mean 25 W RMS x4. Some will also add the subwoofer channel.

In our case, 12.5 W RMS x 4 plus 50W RMS subwoofer would equal 100W RMS. Oh well...

[Vortech347]

Don't forget a lot of manufacturers will add all the channels together when quoting RMS. For example, some claims of 100W RMS will actually mean 25 W RMS x4. Some will also add the subwoofer channel.

In our case, 12.5 W RMS x 4 plus 50W RMS subwoofer would equal 100W RMS. Oh well...
No wonder its so weak. In my exploder 1/2 way up was really loud. In this thing 1/2 way up is like "freeway volume" So no amp for the inside speaks. If I didn't love the steering wheel controls so much and the deck being in an aqward to reach place I'd do an aftermarket.

[SergntMac]

Plenty of fixes for the steering wheel controls, no sweat. BTW, I believe "Alpine" and "Audiophile" are the same.

[rayjay]

Maybe the 04s are different. Are there any markings on a 03 head unit? My 04 has no manufacturer marking at all, not even Ford. It appears to be a Alpine by looks/layout. Actually, I have no need to be blown out the door of my car by volume. As said above I "fixed" the subwoofer by removing the rear deck cover sound deadening material over it and by taping down all loose wires. Considerable difference. Other than the treble could be a little smoother, its not that bad. It is the 1st car stereo that I've not upgraded in many years. I may do the Infinity Reference speakers this spring, but its not a priority.

[GreekGod]

In our case, 12.5 W RMS x 4 plus 50W RMS subwoofer would equal 100W RMS. Oh well...:eek: <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________
See how they lie! :eek: :nono:

[Vortech347]

Maybe the 04s are different. Are there any markings on a 03 head unit? My 04 has no manufacturer marking at all, not even Ford. It appears to be a Alpine by looks/layout. Actually, I have no need to be blown out the door of my car by volume. As said above I "fixed" the subwoofer by removing the rear deck cover sound deadening material over it and by taping down all loose wires. Considerable difference. Other than the treble could be a little smoother, its not that bad. It is the 1st car stereo that I've not upgraded in many years. I may do the Infinity Reference speakers this spring, but its not a priority.

I'll have to try that. Thanks.

[SergntMac]

Maybe the 04s are different. Are there any markings on a 03 head unit? My 04 has no manufacturer marking at all, not even Ford. It appears to be a Alpine by looks/layout...I may do the Infinity Reference speakers this spring, but its not a priority. I looked up my 2003 Order Guide, last printed 2/26/2002. It calls the system "audiophile". My window sticker says likewise.

When I pulled the radio on my first MM, it had a label on the case that said Alpine. I don't remember seeing my radio out of the dash on my second MM, but I may pull #3 just to find out. None of these radio/head units have any markings on them for the 2003 MY.

I have used the Infinity-Kappa on two Marauders, you will like them.

[Vortech347]

Dang it the Infinities are on back order. I got some really nice JBL's coming instead. They should be here friday.

[fastblackmerc]

I have used the Infinity-Kappa on two Marauders, you will like them.
I just installed the Infinity's that I got for Christams. 6X9's in the rear (had to do some cuttin') and 6X8's in the front (direct replacement). They sound better than the stock spreakers and the fronts have a tweeter that you can change the angle. I did have an anoying buzz in the front speakers, traced it to the stock mounting screws being too long and hitting the metal door panel, had to remove and take about a 1/4" off.

[DEFYANT]

How are you guys wiring up the new speakers? On previous vehicles, I could never figure out what wire was positive and negative. The stero system is not high on the mod list, but it is there.

I am also a fan of the stero controls on the steering wheel and dont want to lose them.

I think I read somewhere on this site, some have gotten good results from just upgrading the speakers and that the radio puts out enough power. And truth to this?

The very first mod I ever did was the removal of that piece of foam from over the sub woofer. How Mercury missed that is beyond me!

Above all else, I would be interested in a plug and play system. I doubt I'd ever exceed the OEM wires capability to carry the power or signals to the speakers.

[rayjay]

If you buy from Crutchfield, they supply speaker wire adapters that fit the factory OEM connectors.

[GreekGod]

The foam above the sub speaker is not a mistake. It acts as a damper and limits cone movement.

I have "Golden Ears" and can tell you removal of the foam will not improve sound quality as I have removed my foam after reading about the benefits on this forum. Reading the posts led me to believe Ford had forgotten to remove the foam before assembly but when you actually see the foam, you will understand it is specially made and installed.

I am going to replace the OEM speaker with a "JL" brand when I get a chance but I don't expect it to be much, if any, louder than the OEM. The system speakers are definitely well matched to the Ford (Alpine?) head unit. which I'm sure is spec. built and not "audiophile" by todays standards.

If actual Ford costs were known, we would be amazed how little they paid for the radio and speakers. I wouldn't be surprised if the radio/player cost Ford $75 each and the speakers $5 each. The sub might have been $20! Economies of scale and mass production-some of these components probably fit 20 years of Ford products.

I have spoken.

[SergntMac]

I don't know if it's foam or what, but mine is buzzing it butt off...

BTW, the factory radio with the clock activated is 3W3T-18C868-AA

[DEFYANT]

I would respectfully disagree with you Greekgod.

My sub would vibrate and buzz under low volume and was crap at high volume. Once I removed that preforaded (sp?) piece of insulation, it was 100 times better!

It looks like someone at the factory was lazy.

[Vortech347]

I've got a wiring diagram sent to me that has which wire is postitive and negative. PM me your e-mail address and i'll send you a copy. I got it from someone here on the board.

Reguarding the stock sub I talked with my bud at the stereo shop (who ordered my JBL's) and we're going to make a small sealed box to go in its place with a single 8". Should sound awesome when the project is done. I'm still spending alot of time on the stang so other than whats already coming the sub is on the back burner.

[Dragcity]

I have an '04 and there is what looks like an AMP in the trunk next to the spare tire. Didn't notice it in the Trunk organizer pics posted in the other thread.

My sub is always buzzing. I was going to have the dealer look into this (replace speaker) but if it's just foam, I'd rather do it myself and save the aggrevation of someone boogering something up.

What's the general concencus?

[TripleTransAm]

My sub would vibrate and buzz under low volume and was crap at high volume. Once I removed that preforaded (sp?) piece of insulation, it was 100 times better!

I've done this on 2 MMs now, and I cannot say I've reached a conclusion on that issue.

Here's what I've gathered:
With the foam in place, there was an issue of bass loudness and a bit of rattle (which based on the information that was current on the board at that time I assumed to be because of the presence of the foam).

When I removed the foam, I did notice a slight increase in bass (very slight... the consistency of the foam makes it somewhat transparent to low frequencies - have a look at older removeable foam speaker grilles such as in the 70s and 80s to see this in action). But I did notice an increase in rattle and buzz.

And there was *something* about some part of the bass response that didn't seem right... as if it was out-of-phase or something. It was a behaviour that wasn't there before, things sounded *tighter* with the foam in place.

So looking at all this, I wonder if leaving this foam in place didn't serve to dampen the cone in such a way as to change its behaviour at certain frequencies where the driver and amp were mismatched to the enclosure? By removing it I allowed the cone to operate at frequencies below the resonant frequency of the enclosure which means lots of cone movement but little efficient sound? One thing for sure: it seemed a heck of a lot easier to get the sub to distort once I removed the foam... I briefly considered putting it back in (I might actually try this on MM#2 one of these days, since I'm mostly alone in the car on my work commutes nowadays, and the music is played at its loudest in these situations).

It might simply be that removal of the foam resulted in more vibrations of the rear shelf itself! (ie. maybe that's Ford's bandaid fix for a rattly rear shelf design - stuff a foam block in there to keep the shelf under tension - if I recall correctly, the foam probably sat on the cone's suspension which doesn't do much to restrict its movement, in which case this invalidates my previous paragraph).

However, based on what I've seen on my 2 MMs and what I read on here: it would not surprise me ONE BIT that the presence of the foam is simply a lazy oversight during assembly.


Side note: someone mentioned securing all the loose wiring under the rear shelf, and I think this is a good approach... one that I will try as well, since I noticed some apparent loose wiring under the shelf while fidgeting around trying to get my child seats hooked up. MM#2's shelf seems to rattle more than MM#1, even when swapping subwoofers between the two cars for testing. But if I go the extra distance of removing the rear shelf to do this (and/or replace speakers as well), I might as well stick some sound insulation up underneath there just in case... I won't be wanting to do that sort of thing twice.

[the_pack_rat]

When I replaced the sub in my JBL equipped Town Car(same size BTW) ... I don't recall there being any so-called foam or such, as there was in the MM.

My thoughts were always :

You increase your chances of rattles & such after removing the foam ..... due to the subs new found ability to move much more freely & the increased sound output.

FWIW .....

Every OEM JBL system I have experienced(2 Lincolns & 1 Toyota of my own, as well as COUNTLESS other FoMoCo products years ago), that were 100% stock as they left the factory ..... put the Audiophile/Alpine equipped MM to shame(stock as they leave the factory).

[rayjay]

When I secured the wiring, I did all the wiring in that area of the car. Package tray and the wires behind the seat back. On some really bass heavy CDs I still have to tweak the bass level or it still sounds awful.

[SergntMac]

However, based on what I've seen on my 2 MMs and what I read on here: it would not surprise me ONE BIT that the presence of the foam is simply a lazy oversight during assembly. Whew! Had me worried for a minute there, /Steve...

[merc6]

Not shure if it goes here but those with the stock radio, why did the owners manual not cover RDS? I was fooling around and managed to turn it on and now the songs and radio stations scroll n the screen like the GM vehicles do.

[STLR FN]

From my perspective as an Autoworker, the foam should not be there. I work right next to the job that puts the subwoofer in the Expy's and Navi's and not one of them have the foam in them. If they come from the vendor like that, we are told to remove them.

*Note* this is my case here at Mich. Truck, other plants I would suspect the same but alas as we have found out not everything runs the same.

[Vortech347]

Not shure if it goes here but those with the stock radio, why did the owners manual not cover RDS? I was fooling around and managed to turn it on and now the songs and radio stations scroll n the screen like the GM vehicles do.

RDS? Enlighten me please.

[merc6]

there is a RDS button almost dead center of the dash. push it while radio is on fm and it gives you a options window for the radio stations and song titles to scroll across the display similar to what you see in the GM vehiles. Firther thru you can also have traffic alerts turned on and search for a radio gender. I felt since I wasn't gonna replace it for a lil bit I would share this new found info that kept me lil bit more happy with the stock head unit till I replace it with something.

[fastblackmerc]

How are you guys wiring up the new speakers? On previous vehicles, I could never figure out what wire was positive and negative. The stero system is not high on the mod list, but it is there.

I am also a fan of the stero controls on the steering wheel and dont want to lose them.

I think I read somewhere on this site, some have gotten good results from just upgrading the speakers and that the radio puts out enough power. And truth to this?

The very first mod I ever did was the removal of that piece of foam from over the sub woofer. How Mercury missed that is beyond me!

Above all else, I would be interested in a plug and play system. I doubt I'd ever exceed the OEM wires capability to carry the power or signals to the speakers.
I went to Best Buy and got speaker harness adapters, Circuit City also has them but they were $4.00 per set more (you need 2 sets). You can also get harness adapters for the radio to connect aftermarket to the factory harness.

[merc6]

Were the same connectors in wal-mart?

[Vortech347]

God this week has been crazy with shipping and ordering things. My bud ordered the infinites then was told they were on back order....so we placed another order for JBL's....well the infinities showed up today.

I installed them and Even at full blast the woofer hardly moves....to bad these stereo's are so week.

HOWEVER it sounds AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe how great these speakers sound! The crossovers barly fit under the window/lock control pannels.

[fastblackmerc]

Were the same connectors in wal-mart?
My Wally World doesn't have them.