Securi-Lock questions

[TripleTransAm]

A couple of questions on the MM "security" system.

1) once the system is armed, does the horn blare if the car is tampered with? Tampered, in the sense of door openings, etc... what about shock?

2) Does anyone know of a sensor in the driver's seat that works in conjunction with the Securi-Lock system?

Thanks... your answers will determine my course of action this morning.

[Brian]

Partial Answers:

1) Not sure offhand about horn blare when door opened.
Car does not have any alarm interaction that detects any motion or shock.

2) No sensor in Driver's seat tied to Securi-Lock.

One terminology detail --
Be aware that the FOMOCO term "SECURILOCK" refers specifically to the passive anti-theft system that will not allow the PCM to start the car unless a key with the chip properly programmed for your car is in the ignition. Any other alarm system does not fall under the term "Securilock".

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by Brian
2) No sensor in Driver's seat tied to Securi-Lock.


Thanks for the info (and the terminology correction...).

Here's the situation:
Aftermarket remote start system in my MM, when I fire it up from the distance, the moment I sit my a$$ on the driver's seat, more often than not it will kill the engine. In the limited time I've had to drive the car in the past snowy two weeks, I have yet to determine a reliable scenario.

At first I thought it was the ignition kill, linked to the remote starter. But even when I hit the "open" button, sometimes it still dies.

[martyo]

TTA: I bet you are hitting the brake (either intentionally or unintentionally) when you get in the car. That WILL cause the car to shut down. As they say "They are supposed to do that." It's a security feature that is built in.

Please be sure to follow up and let me know if this is the problem.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
TTA: I bet you are hitting the brake (either intentionally or unintentionally) when you get in the car.


Thought about that. I'm 99.99999% sure that is not what is happening, as I always consciously made sure to avoid the brake (I was aware of that 'feature', and I think it's a great idea). Also, at 5'8" I'm not the type of guy whose feet will unintentionally hit the pedals on the way into a car.:D

I initially thought it was the ignition kill that was kicking in... in other words, start the car with the doors locked (the whole purpose of a remote starter), open the doors with the fob, throw the kid in the baby seat, and by the time I got to the driver's seat, the ignition kill timeout had occurred.

But last week I noticed that as I approached the car, I'd trigger the remote starter (just to hear the car fire up :D ) and then remotely unlock the doors. Not more than 5 seconds later, I'd sit on the seat and it would cut the engine immediately. So it's not a timeout.

So, my theories are:

1) some seat sensor interfacing with the Securi-Loc or PCM or something. Not likely, based on how you guys have described the Securi-Loc system. I've heard of some cars having a weight sensor for airbag reasons, so perhaps the presence of the remote starter/ignition kill interferes with this, if the MM is so equipped?

2) The aftermarket remote starter module is actually located under the seat and when I sit on the seat, it might jog an intermittent connection loose. It's not like I jump onto the seat "a la Dukes of Hazzard" but I'll try applying pressure tonight with just my hands and see what it takes to kill the engine (today's sun should have melted off the ice shell in which my MM was encased from this weekend's freezing rain and snow, so I'll try it tonight).

3) some additional sensor that is part of the aftermarket remote starter/ignition kill combo placed under the seat, and the programming was improperly done or it is just plain malfunctioning.


One important point that leads me to point the finger at the remote starter/ignition kill is that if I reach in and insert the key before sitting on the seat, all is well.

Also, I can't seem to activate the horn chirp feature for confirming remote door locking, nor can I change the parking lamps flashing on locking/unlocking. Following the instructions from the manual results in all the expected feedback from the power locks, but the status remains the same: flashing lights when locking and unlocking, but no chirps.

[TAF]

Originally posted by Brian
Partial Answers:

1) Not sure offhand about horn blare when door opened.
Car does not have any alarm interaction that detects any motion or shock.

2) No sensor in Driver's seat tied to Securi-Lock.

One terminology detail --
Be aware that the FOMOCO term "SECURILOCK" refers specifically to the passive anti-theft system that will not allow the PCM to start the car unless a key with the chip properly programmed for your car is in the ignition. Any other alarm system does not fall under the term "Securilock".

GREAT to see a post from you Brian!!!!

[looking97233]

Sounds like they f***ed it up, my best guess. Car stero shops got thier bad rap for a reason.

[jgc61sr2002]

If it doesn't adapt to the wire harness I don't purchase it. Just for the reasons stated above. Electrical nightmares. John

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by jgc61sr2002
If it doesn't adapt to the wire harness I don't purchase it. Just for the reasons stated above. Electrical nightmares.


Well, of course I was never able to reproduce the problem last night or this morning. Again, I was very careful to sit on the seat first before dragging in my feet... no dice. So, I'll have to keep my eyes open for the exact conditions to reproduce this.

If it was brake related, it would have to be due to the paper 'mats' that the service department left on the driver's floor which I kept just to avoid dirtying it too much during the first few days of ownership (which coincided with lots of salt and sand being spread around). *maybe* the brake pedal switch is sensitive enough to have been tripped by the paper touching it at just the right angle. *shrug*

I'll let you guys know if something comes up. There is *still* the issue of no horn chirp on locking/unlocking, though.

[martyo]

TTA: Does your remote start operate through a separate fob or do you have replacement Ford RKEs?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
TTA: Does your remote start operate through a separate fob or do you have replacement Ford RKEs?


I was given a separate set of fobs while the original Ford fobs were given to me in an envelope, non-functional. The sobs did not include a panic button feature on the aftermarket starter install so I will be raising hell about this 'option'. I may consider an alarm from this company, so I'll try to catch a discount because of this mess-up (I was promised by the sobs that the new fobs would retain ALL the functionality of the old Ford fobs).

sobs, all of them!!! :D

[martyo]

Mine is a Ford System that replaced (even looks the same) the original fobs. They never offered me an alarm option and after about 10 unreturned calls to them to see if I could upgrade, I have given up. The functionality on my fobs is the same as the factory ones, plus the remote start features (car locater, panic, button, etc.). I also have a little baggy with the two "spare" fobs that came with the car. They are in my "spare parts" box, which after tomorrow will include a Torque Converter and exhaust tips.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
They are in my "spare parts" box, which after tomorrow will include a Torque Converter and exhaust tips.


LOL! Anxiously awaiting your reviews on the torque converter swap.

Overall, the remote start feature is a lot of fun. For one, there's the benefit of firing up the car from inside the house on a day where morning temps were around freezing, so it would be warm-ish by the time I took my little boy out to the car. It's real nice to hear the muted roar of the exhaust from the driveway as we're in the foyer getting our coats on and dressing up Junior for the ride.

But best of all, I like walking towards the car, activating the remote start at *just* the right moment, and hearing it fire up as I'm 10-20 feet from the car. Truly a nice way to start the drive! :D

[Bigdogjim]

Steve: Ford has 3 levels of alarm/start. I put the gold system in my MM.. I had the shop that installed it silence the alarm/horn. I come home from work anytime after 1AM..Don't need the niose...I do not worry about the car be stolen...Firm beliver in the fact that if they want it they will find away to get it....I went with the system for the remote start rather then just an alarm...Personally it always anonyed me when people would park a car, hit the button and horn sounds or it beeps at you then flashes the light.No flame intended to those who find it usefull...Like Marty said the Ford system will kill the engine unless you put the key in a turn it to start before you touch the brake..I would check with the shop that installed it and ask them whats up???
Big Dog

[engine23ccvfd]

What about the insurance discount many companies give for a security system. Does the OEM alrm help with this?

[martyo]

The point here engine23ccvfd, is that there is no factory "alarm," just an ignition disabling device.

[engine23ccvfd]

got it I am a little dense to much smoke I guess

[engine23ccvfd]

Anyone have lojack? Whats the install/monthly expense?

[martyo]

Yes. This is NY and its a "must have" for me. Install cost about $600 (ouch!!!) and no monthly service fees. Requires a 2 year recertification, I think. That runs about $50.

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by engine23ccvfd
What about the insurance discount many companies give for a security system. Does the OEM alrm help with this?

The Passive Anti-theft system should qualify for an anti-theft/alarm discount with your insurance company

[mtnh]

TTA,

if you hit the lock button 2X in a row, does the confirmation tone sound on the horn then? The reason that I was asking is that on my Lincoln LS, it only beeps if you hit the lock twice on the fob. The first is a silent lock. If you hit the fob right away again, you get the beep. If there is a door ajar or the trunk or hood are ajar, you get the doors locked but the confirmation tone will be a beep-beep instead of a beep. Maybe the 300b (is that what you got?) has new functionality.

Also, you should try adding a MM to the end of your username, it seems to work in my mind. (:

Mike

[RCSignals]

The TC has an available perimiter alarm. I wonder if it could be adapted to the MM?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by mtnh

if you hit the lock button 2X in a row, does the confirmation tone sound on the horn then?


I tried this (sorry it took so long to get back to you).

No horn blips in ANY situations.


Now, an update on the issue I brought up with my remote starter system. My diagnosis? 50% user error, 50% brake pedal switch.

The 50% user error I finally tracked down to being the temporary 'mat' I have been using while we still had some salt around. Because of the material, it *sometimes* pushed up ever so lightly on the brake pedal, which would result in the engine getting killed before I had a chance to put the key in. We're talking such a light touch that it was occasionally triggered by just the shifting of the car under my weight (180lbs) as I sat on the seat.

Now, why so sensitive? Well, that's the other 50% of the reason. My brake 'switch' is TOO DAMNED SENSITIVE and acts weird.

If I depress the pedal ever so lightly, the brake lights activate. If I stop the pressing motion, the lights stay on. If I so much as release the smallest amount of pressure on the pedal, the lights will go OFF (!) and will stay off even if I stop removing pressure on the pedal. That means that I can actually induce a situation where my car is lightly braked, my foot still ON the brake, but the brake lights are off!!!! If I reapply more pressure and the pedal depresses the smallest amount, the lights come back on again. WTF?????

Now, I'm used to brake switches that are ON-OFF. You step on the pedal, you close a switch, the brake lights come on. They are supposed to STAY ON while said switch is closed, until you lift your foot off the brake pedal such that the switch eventually opens and the lights go off. No braking, no lights. Braking? Lights. Not this silly "brake lights come on only if you don't happen to be braking LESS than the maximum amount you've have braked thus far, in this particular application of said brakes!" crap.

I can actually make my brake lights BLINK if I press on the pedal, then slowly release the brakes with little stuttering motions, until my foot is completely off the brake and then the lights are finally out.

[golfnut]

TTA,
Sounds like you found the solution. You brought up a point that I thought was worth looking at as well. Occasionally when my wife rides in the MM, she neglects to put her seat belt on for a block or so out of the drive, when the alarm goes off she puts it on. Here is my question, how does the car know she is even there? When you mentioned the sensors in the seats, I thought of this. May not be realted at all.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by golfnut
Occasionally when my wife rides in the MM, she neglects to put her seat belt on for a block or so out of the drive, when the alarm goes off she puts it on. Here is my question, how does the car know she is even there? When you mentioned the sensors in the seats, I thought of this. May not be realted at all.


Is she a passenger or driver at that moment?

The more I think of it, the more I recall hearing about dual-stage air bags inflating at different rates depending on the weight of the person. So there has GOT to be a sensor in there. (I think it was one of the Ford dealers I visited who told me about this). So hence why I thought it might be interfering with the remote start or Securi-Lock. But it wasn't the case.

I would be interested in knowing how your brake switches behave. With the rear to a window or a reflective wall, you should be able to see the reflections from the brake lights. Apply brakes softly, brakes should light, begin to remove pressure from brakes slowly and they might go out. Apply pressure before having completely disengaged brakes and they go back on again.

Must be annoying for the guy behind me in stop and go traffic, if I'm creeping along with my foot very lightly on the brakes. The lights must flicker on and off pretty often even though I never actually completely lift off the brake pedal!

[golfnut]

She is the passenger. It has happened a couple times so I think there has to be a sensor in there.

[engine23ccvfd]

Hey Golf nut how you like your Escort 8500? As for the sensor I am guessing the buckle has a sensor that judges weight and buckle status.

[golfnut]

Put it this way, I got the car on a friday, got my first ticket on the following monday, got the escort on tuesday cause I could see the writting on the wall. Havnt gotten another ticket. It picks up radar from a long way off. Supposedly its the hottest on the market. It is even upgradeable thru the web when an update comes out. For what its worth, I give it a thumbs up.
As for the buckle idea, how would the car know if there was someone there that should be buckling it?? Did that make sense?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by golfnut
As for the buckle idea, how would the car know if there was someone there that should be buckling it?? Did that make sense?


Yes it did make sense. It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer used a seat sensor.

History lesson: back in 1974, the new Chevrolets (at least the full sized ones, and possibly the Camaro too) came with seat sensors in the front seats (at least the driver seat for sure) that would not let you start the car if there was an unbuckled person on the seat. That, of course, led to a whole bunch of people buckling their belts behind them and simply sitting on the seatbelt.

However, like all automotive bright ideas of the early 70's, it tended to glitch quite often, preventing the car from starting even if one was correctly belted and buckled. So they had to include an override button located at the firewall under the hood. Every so often, the owner of a '74 would have to pop the hood, find the button, reset the system, and then retry to start the car.

[golfnut]

This has made me curious. I think I will ask the dealer the next time I am there.
Did you get your brakes adjusted?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by golfnut
Did you get your brakes adjusted?


You mean regarding the messed-up brake light situation? Not yet. I'm not familiar with the brake switch layout on the MM... all my other cars use a small micro-switch at the brake pedal lever. I'm not sure how the MM does it. What I do know is that to behave in the manner that mine does, it would have to be a pretty messed up switch if it was implemented in the same manner as my other cars.

[Brian]

The passenger seat has an occupant sensor in the seat cushion - pressure (weight) based. The Restraints Control Module uses the passenger sensor to determine if there is a passenger sitting over there. [I do not know for sure if the car can determine actual passenger weight, or if it just an occupied/unoccupied based on a threshold weight.] No seat cushion sensor in the drvier's seat - if the car is being driven.... there is a driver!! Both the driver's seat and the front passenger seat also have a sensor in the seat belt buckle that tell the car if the person is buckled in.

Belt minder therefore knows to go off if:
1) driver seat belt not buckled
2) Passenger seat "occupied" AND passenger seat belt not buckled

The airbag deployment logic (agressiveness of the air bag deployment firing) takes into account occupied or not, as well as belted or not.

Reminder to all who believe that the laws of Physics will apply no matter what time of what day you test them.... ALWAYS BUCKLE UP. Air bags are supplimental restraint devices only, and can never provide as much protection as you get from being properly restrained by your seat belts.

[golfnut]

Thanks for clearing that up Brian. That is definately good advise. My wife is good about wearing the belt, sometimes it just not the first thing she does.

[TripleTransAm]

An update on this brake pedal situation (I was tempted to start a new thread, but figured this one discussed the brake pedal switch issue already).

Last week, the dealer's ace technician diagnosed my funky brake pedal action as a lazy or slow-to-release brake 'shaft'. (I forget the actual word, it's late).

When I apply the brakes at any pressure, the brake light switch activated the lights and pushes onto the shaft going into the brake booster. When one releases pressure on the brake pedal, the pedal should rise as it is pushed by the booster shaft coming back outwards, and the switch should still make contact. Only when your foot is completely off the brake pedal should the lights go out.

In my case, it looks like the shaft is ever so slightly lazy when it comes to pushing the pedal back up. Since the shaft lags ever so slightly when you remove some of the pressure off the pedal, the brake switch will end up pushing up on the pedal. Since the booster shaft doesn't extend fast enough to keep the switch making contact, the switch opens and the lights go out, even though I'm still functionally braking!

Since the switch is fairly sensitive, all it takes is for a tiny lag in the shaft extending from the booster, and the switch will extend enough to kill the lights. The tech feels the shaft should be extending faster than it does, and we'll be changing out the booster this coming week.

He was curious to know if anyone out there is experiencing the same thing? Essentially, with the MM's rear facing a reflective surface (any wall or window), you can test your brakes to see if they behave the same way. Apply enough braking force to light the stoplights, then slowly lift off the brake pedal. Correct operation is that the lights should remain on until your foot is completely off the brake, and not turn off as it does on my car as you're releasing brake pressure.