High Lift Cam Kit M-6550-T46

[Master]

As an experiment for the N/A MM, I'm adding the Ford High Lift Cam Kit to ported and flowed heads while adding the Kooks system. I have a baseline dyno run for the stock MM, and there are plenty of before/after graphs of the Kooks system. Has anyone already dyno'd their MM with just the cams and heads? I know a fellow in Florida, I think, who has already added the cams. Not sure if he did the heads, and no idea if he dyno'd. He liked the ride, though, and said the idle sounded great.
If no one has any comments (which I hope isn't the case), I'll keep you posted as things develope.

[FordNut]

As an experiment for the N/A MM, I'm adding the Ford High Lift Cam Kit to ported and flowed heads while adding the Kooks system. I have a baseline dyno run for the stock MM, and there are plenty of before/after graphs of the Kooks system. Has anyone already dyno'd their MM with just the cams and heads? I know a fellow in Florida, I think, who has already added the cams. Not sure if he did the heads, and no idea if he dyno'd. He liked the ride, though, and said the idle sounded great.
If no one has any comments (which I hope isn't the case), I'll keep you posted as things develope.
Dennis put them in a customer's car with a built motor and blower. That's the only set I've heard of in a Marauder so far.

[Vortech347]

Oh that sounds cool. I can't wait to see results. I've done cams in a 4v and they're easy.

[Joe Walsh]

I've got a set of Crower Cams in mine...they are just a little more duration, but a good bit more lift than the OEM cams.
I already had the Kooks set-up on my MM before I pulled the engine for a forged rebuild.
My new engine is a 5.0 (305cid) so comparing it to a 4.6 dyno is not apples to apples.
The idle is just about the same as the OEM cammed engine, BUT there is a lot more valvetrain noise between 1800 and 2500 rpm...then the Kooks/Magnaflows drown out everything.

[Rider90]

You must take a video when its done :D

[Blackened300a]

Oh that sounds cool. I can't wait to see results. I've done cams in a 4v and they're easy.

Wanna come to NY and throw a set in my Marauder? lol

[SergntMac]

I'm not down on the idea, but there are options that deliver a better bang for the buck return.

Cam kit M-6550-T46 is 1695.00, and you get four cams, 32 valves, springs, keepers, keys and so on. Add another grand for port and polish and set up, your head R&R is not figured in here. Add it all up, and you get limited performance gain, for about 3000 bucks.

By limited, I mean it's a fixed mod. Better than OEM yes, but the performance gain has a ceiling, therefore it's limited to a fixed gain. Moreover, it does nothing to strengthen, or, fortify the bottom end, which is still threatened by the results of more power. Ford Racing predicts 60 RWHP when correctly installed. That's 50 bucks per horse.

This is where supercharging becomes a strong consideration, add another 2 grand to your budget and a number of supercharger kits are within reach. Supercharging is not limited, it's unlimited. Via tuning and pulley mods, you can select the power you want on tap. While it's still risky to challenge a stock engine with too much boost, you can control that, if you have any self control.

Supercharging can add 100 RWHP/RWTQ without getting inside the engine, and the stock engine should handle that (correctly tuned) with no sweat for 100K miles or more. It's still 50 bucks per horse, but you can grow from there when it's time to add more options and features. Plus, you can take it off and move it to another car, within reasonable limitations

Again, nothing wrong with this idea, nothing at all. However, I would do it only as part of a total engine build. In fact, it would be a mandatroy step in refreshing the whole assembly. But, as a stand alone mod, it just doesn't make sense to me, considering all that's involved, and the return on investment.

Just my .02c gents, carry on.

[Master]

Under normal circumstances, I would agree with the "bang for the buck" arguement. A couple of things make this situation a bit different. We do our own head work (Norsman), the cam kit was picked up for $1400, and the car was going in to Ford for the Kooks system anyway. In this case, the cam switch-out is going to run me about $2,500.00 CDN (About 2k USD). Compared to about 8k CDN for the supercharger - well, there is no comparison. I don't have 8k. Maybe down the road, but not now.
BTW: When we tune imports (our biggest customers at DynoMight), we tell the boys to allow for about $100/hp. If we (MMs) can get away for $50/hp, we're doing all right.
All comments welcome, all the time. I'm a tough guy to offend :)

[SergntMac]

Being able to cut back or avoid labor costs is always a benefit, I was looking at it from a majority view, where mods are a challenge for those among us without tool chests, garages and talented friends. My first set of 4:10s cost me just shy of 1K, because I lacked those resources at that time.

Good luck, please keep us posted on progress. BTW, supercharger kits start under 5K, shop around?

[Master]

I could be letting the thread drift a bit here, but wrt superchargers, I have always had reservations about them. We tune sooo many here at the shop that come from the factory with "Good" programs. For us, not being able to buy 94 octane is problem number one. Not having good local representation from the various manufacturers is another. We've run into so many that detonate under load, have scary fuel/air ratios, etc. that I tend to just stay away. That said, however, I've heard so many good things about Trilogy that they would likely be the route I'd go if I did add forced induction (this is where the 8k number came from). However, I've yet to see anyone post a dyno graph that includes the fuel air line. To me, that is just as important as the hp/tq numbers.
Sorry for drifting...

[MM03MOK]

a couple of Trilogy dynos:

Smokie - Trilogy:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/9885/cat/500/perpage/24/ppuser/467

Smokie - Pre-Trilogy:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/9884/cat/500/perpage/24/ppuser/467

MM03MOK - Trilogy:
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/7387/cat/500/perpage/24/ppuser/467

[Warpath]

I'm not down on the idea, but there are options that deliver a better bang for the buck return.

Cam kit M-6550-T46 is 1695.00, and you get four cams, 32 valves, springs, keepers, keys and so on. Add another grand for port and polish and set up, your head R&R is not figured in here. Add it all up, and you get limited performance gain, for about 3000 bucks.

By limited, I mean it's a fixed mod. Better than OEM yes, but the performance gain has a ceiling, therefore it's limited to a fixed gain. Moreover, it does nothing to strengthen, or, fortify the bottom end, which is still threatened by the results of more power. Ford Racing predicts 60 RWHP when correctly installed. That's 50 bucks per horse.

This is where supercharging becomes a strong consideration, add another 2 grand to your budget and a number of supercharger kits are within reach. Supercharging is not limited, it's unlimited. Via tuning and pulley mods, you can select the power you want on tap. While it's still risky to challenge a stock engine with too much boost, you can control that, if you have any self control.

Supercharging can add 100 RWHP/RWTQ without getting inside the engine, and the stock engine should handle that (correctly tuned) with no sweat for 100K miles or more. It's still 50 bucks per horse, but you can grow from there when it's time to add more options and features. Plus, you can take it off and move it to another car, within reasonable limitations

Again, nothing wrong with this idea, nothing at all. However, I would do it only as part of a total engine build. In fact, it would be a mandatroy step in refreshing the whole assembly. But, as a stand alone mod, it just doesn't make sense to me, considering all that's involved, and the return on investment.

Just my .02c gents, carry on.

x2 except superchargers have a limit too. Changing the pulley will increase boost to a point. However, boost level can get too high and the blower is no longer efficient. Instead of more boost, it just produces more heat (generally speaking). Cams are definitely a cool mod IMO. But, save it for when other head work is performed to save on labor costs.

I think the point Mac was trying to make is instead of putting $3k into cams, save it and put it towards the $8k for the blower.

[Petrograde]

This is of interest to me. Cams will prob'ly be the first engine mod I'll have done.

I'll be watching this thread.

[Master]

The kit is in, the seat of the pants feel is unbelievable! I'm setting up the dyno in 15 minutes and will have runs, pics and videos available. Should be a hoot! We're also dyno-ing a supercharged Miata (Roots), a Supercharged Camaro (Centripital), and a Turbo Jetta. Should be a good night at the 'ol Dyno. Please stay tuned.

[Blackened300a]

I really want to know what this mod does. Please if you can, Post the dyno numbers along with a sound clip of what cams make this engine sound like

Also the Cost to performance ratio.

[Master]

Back to back runs produced the following:
302.6 hp, 288.4 ft-lb
304.8 hp, 287.4 ft-lb
I forgot the camera with stills and video in the warehouse, so I'll have to post them tomorrow (can you post video?). The install was excellent - done by a race mechanic who works at local Ford Dealership. He is the only guy most of us would let near our cars. Had some neat tricks as well.
Interestingly, this mod completely changed the way the car shifts. It sounds like a formula one going through the gears now. Just so fast and smooth its not fit. I can only hope that this isn't a bad thing. It seems like an excellent side effect, but I'd love to have an explanation. Needs a serious tuning program now though to take advantage of the extra legs - power builds, as Ford promised, right to fuel cut-off. I can only imagine a Lidio tune to back this up.

[Blackened300a]

You look like your running pretty lean when you start out then it richens back up the higher you rev.

13.0-13.2 is where you want to be throughout the entire run

[Master]

Actually, you can tell I've mis-labeled the runs. The big one, obviously, is the modified car. Matching this, in fact, is the Better F/A Graph. The lean one is the stock F/A graph. Interesting, eh?

[Blackened300a]

Interesting indeed nice gain but Im sure that wasnt a cheap mod!

[Master]

Wasn't cheap, to be sure. But regardless of whatever else we do to the engine (supercharger, etc), its nice to have the hot cams, ported and flowed heads, port matched intake and exhaust, and Kooks system. For everything mentioned above, purchased and installed, it was $5,500.00. Take out the headers and exhaust and it was $3,000.00 for everything else. This is Canadian dollars, mind.

[DEFYANT]

Wow! It is nice to see a different approach at making HP.

What other mods do you have?

[Master]

No other mods at this time. Just now took it for another drive through the park and what amazes me most is still the tranny. The shifts are ungodly smooth and FAST. Not like the original set-up at all. Wish I could convey the feeling. I'm expecting "BobbyClobber" to drop by with his Trilogy set-up today for a peek. I guess he's heading down to Florida for a couple of weeks.
Oh, it is lowered. Method was one coil out of the front and adjusted the rear sensor. Planning to cut a couple of resistors and a multi-position switch to change ride height from the cabin.

[Rider90]

Planning to cut a couple of resistors and a multi-position switch to change ride height from the cabin.
Please post this if you achieve it. My idea a long time ago was using an R/C Car servo and just killing it's power when the height is where I want it. Keep us updated and congrats on the cams, I'd like to see a video or hear a clip when you get a chance.

[marauderboi]

Awesome I really want to hear this video please

[cyclone03]

You picked up the torque at 4000rpm then added a secound peak at about 5000 as well as pulling the hp up thats why the pull feels beter and the shifts feel they changed,unless some tuning happened.
Stock our engines show peak torque at 4200 rpm with peal HP at about 5200-5500.My tuned with Kooks headers shows a torque peak at the same 4200 with HP peak of 298 at 6000 the trick in the shifting tune is to not go below the torque peak after the shift.

The area under the curve looks good with you mods, how is the power at less than WOT/under 3000? Has the car gone flat just cruising around town?

I know we don't do this stuff for less than WFO but we do like to drive 1000's of miles to Marauderville.:D


Ok edit time....looking at the dyno graph...
I don't think you want to extend the rpm range above 6200 see how the torque drops off as the run goes to 6500?your not making power.Now if thats the fuel cut off in action keeping the fuel on may pull the numbers up but now your flirting with over reving the transmision.Going back to the Mustang MACH1 the stick revs to 7200,auto same as us 6200 ( I know about the crank).

Do you have 2 torque peaks at 275lbft each? thats good.
Even the boost at 3000 looks good.
You need to get your dyno guy to lock the converter and lock the trans in 3rd for your pulls then you can pull all the way from about 1200-1500rpm,this also helps get a better reading of the AF ratio and takes the converter out of the readings.


Edit again:
Ok torque is 287+ thats great.
And I reread,you are the dyno guy.
Play with the programing to lock the trans on the dyno.

[Zack]

Please post this if you achieve it. My idea a long time ago was using an R/C Car servo and just killing it's power when the height is where I want it. Keep us updated and congrats on the cams, I'd like to see a video or hear a clip when you get a chance.

No servos or resistors required to do this mod.....
Just some wires and a few switches.
I havent done it, but its mapped out in my head how to do it.

[94_302]

Are you going to add a ported intake? That would be nice to see what a h/c/i combo is capable of on these cars. Can't wait to hear more after you get a tune.

[Master]

Even though I'm the dyno guy, I actually don't do any tuning. 8hrs a day at the day job is plenty of thinking for me. When I dyno I do one of two things. I do baselines for guys off the street who want to know what they make, or I rent it to tuners who do all of the work. I haven't the time, energy, or financial backing to make this a full time tuner job. It started out as a hobby that I hoped would, in the end, just pay for the DynoJet Dyno. So far, its still working on breaking even at the end of each year.
For my own car (The MM, of course), I'd be interested in what folks are recommending these days as a tuner. I'd just hate to screw up my own ride by going for that last bit of hp.
As for the intake, it is already port matched. The numbers I'm getting, though, are with the factory airbox. I'd put a K&N on, but don't know if it would offer that much benefit. The stock box is one of the better ones I've seen.
As for the ride height, my seggestion about the resistors was made because I "assumed" that the leveling rod was actually just adjusting a pot, ie varying the resistance based upon position. As there are a dozen ways to skin a cat (not that I would, mind you), it may be that Ford has not used this method. Whatever Ford did, as Zack mentioned, it wouldn't take much to modify the system. I can picture a nice little illuminated three way switch mounted on the big flat surface of the console right behind the passenger's cup holder relief.
Now. If anyone wanted to get us a group deal on extrude honing the intake, I'd be up for that. Its one of the power features of the old SVT Contours.

An editing adder:
I should have noted that the idle is considerably rougher. The car burbles at idle like an old Mach1, and sort of rocks side to side. As a sales engineer (read "overpaid salesman"), I find myself hoping this won't be too much for my clients when I pick them up for lunch or golf. This is how I ended up having to stop driving the Tempo. Race seats, open exhaust (almost) no carpets, door skins, etc. Then the head of our million dollar company arrives for a visit and needs a drive to the train station. Man was he unimpressed!

[Zack]

Dont waste any money on intake mods, it is an awesome piece right out of the factory.
Except the throttle body for really high horsepower applications.

[Master]

I really would tend to agree. Its one of the most interesting looking intake systems out there as well. Cleaning it up is about all I would ever recommend (deburring, matching at most). Honing, of course, would be fine, but a marginal gain at best, assuming that this was the bottleneck in the first place. Thoughts on a K&N though? I still have the 4.0 cone kit from the Explorer. I just don't think it would be enough of a benefit to go messing with it.

[Breadfan]

I've got a set of Crower Cams in mine...they are just a little more duration, but a good bit more lift than the OEM cams.
I already had the Kooks set-up on my MM before I pulled the engine for a forged rebuild.
My new engine is a 5.0 (305cid) so comparing it to a 4.6 dyno is not apples to apples.
The idle is just about the same as the OEM cammed engine, BUT there is a lot more valvetrain noise between 1800 and 2500 rpm...then the Kooks/Magnaflows drown out everything.

Hmmm, Joe, didn't realize you had different cams too. Just curious, were the heads rebuilt, your old heads just with new cams, or new heads with the cams installed? Also, did you do springs too?

[natedog1284]

Dennis put them in a customer's car with a built motor and blower. That's the only set I've heard of in a Marauder so far.


Wow! It is nice to see a different approach at making HP.

Geeze guys....I kinda feel a little overlooked.....:alone:

Guess that's what I get for not signing on for a couple of days....:rolleyes:

[Warpath]

A popular intake mod the Mustang guys do is shortening the runners.

[thePunisher]

anyone ever think to use the ford GT cams?? has anyone done this....ive been toying with the idea.....

[Master]

A couple of observations since the install:
1) The idle needs to be addressed. There is a bit too much hunting by the engine management, and sometimes it will out and out stall. There is a service tip on the Ford Motorsports website that details setting the idle.
2) That really nice shifting I was talking about isn't so nice. Based upon what I'm seeing in the 1st to 2nd shift it appears that the tranny is actually unable to quickly lock into the next gear with the new power. In 2nd/3rd or 3rd/overdrive it is not as noticeable. In first/second, though, you get a long "BBBBbbbbbbb" sound between shifts. Almost like you are bouncing rapidly off the rev limiter before it makes the gear change (and in fact I think this may be what is happening).
3) I would agree with the posts that have commented on too much drone from the mufflers that ship with the Kooks system. I will first try relocating the mufflers further astern and extening the tips out a bit further as well. If that doesn't help, I'm afraid I'll have to look for alternative mufflers.
So. I need to fix the idle, and get programmer to increase the pressure applied to the tranny for shifts, and figure out the best way to quiet the exhaust.
Any recommendations? Obviously, I'd love to let Lidio perform a tune, but a 2000 mile trek is out of the question.

PS (edit)
Someone asked about part throttle driveability. Its great! Feels just excellent at all throttle positions. For those of you with the Trilogy kit, I'd be interested to have the same question answered. No noticebale effect at part throttle?

[AzMarauder]

I could be letting the thread drift a bit here, but wrt superchargers, I have always had reservations about them. We tune sooo many here at the shop that come from the factory with "Good" programs. For us, not being able to buy 94 octane is problem number one. Not having good local representation from the various manufacturers is another. We've run into so many that detonate under load, have scary fuel/air ratios, etc. that I tend to just stay away. That said, however, I've heard so many good things about Trilogy that they would likely be the route I'd go if I did add forced induction (this is where the 8k number came from). However, I've yet to see anyone post a dyno graph that includes the fuel air line. To me, that is just as important as the hp/tq numbers.
Sorry for drifting...

Master,

I have a Trilogy... can only get reasonably 91 octane... AND live at a high elevation (4500 ft) with 90+ degree temps. I installed the blower system myself (I am NOT a mechanic ... far from it) and I have (knocks on wood) had no problems at all. ZERO!

Trilogy S/C costs $6k (unless your 8K number is CDN?)

Perhaps the difference you are seeing in what comes into your business is those companys are marketing an S/C that is tuned a little closer to the "edge". The folks at Trilogy have a very conservative tune for their applicaton. Many folks of course have gone to more aggressive tunes with great results but they are closer to the "edge".

Just my two cents worth !

[AzMarauder]

On the transmission shifts... did your tuner do anything to change them? The tune that Lidio does firms up the shifting (increasing line pressure I am told). I would suggest that something like that would fix your shifting problem. You description sounds like the OEM shift setup... with a LOT more ponies infront of it.

[Master]

Not being a bigg fan of living on the edge, I like the idea of being somewhat conservative. I noticed that Killjoy has an SCT with Lidio tune. Think I should consider picking that up to see how it affects the ride. From everything I've ready, his tunes are pretty detailed.
You are correct that I'm still using stock computer settings - again, I have no tuner. I'll just have to lay off a bit until I get a solution.

[Master]

BTW: The videos I took are pretty crappy. It was windy as heck when we tested, so the mic picks up more wind noise than anything. I'll try to get some good short clips to post (like under a meg) within a couple of days.

[thePunisher]

the reason it shifts this way on the 1/2 is becuase the clutch cylinder cant fill up fast enough. upping the line pressure might help but really the separator plate in the valve body should have the feed holes drilled out bigger.

[Master]

Really? This is a proven fix for that problem? Sounds involved enough to require a tranny shop. Thoughts?

[AzMarauder]

Really? This is a proven fix for that problem? Sounds involved enough to require a tranny shop. Thoughts?

I'm to qualify my statements here with " I know NOTHING about how an Auto Trans works"

There are waaaayyy too many modified cars on this board that have not done any internal trans mods ... and are not having the problem you describe. So I don't think you HAVE to do that.

Call Lidio and see if he will do a tune for you. I don't know what he is selling his current Xcals and tunes for ... but I don't think you have anything exotic that he can't handle.

I got a tune from Lidio when I was bone stock and he upped my HP AND changed the shift points and firmness... the driveability difference was marked. Before I would get that slush 1-2 shift under WOT... after I would get a VERY solid shift... I mean... BAM into second under WOT.

[RF Overlord]

upping the line pressure might help but really the separator plate in the valve body should have the feed holes drilled out bigger.
Really? This is a proven fix for that problem? Sounds involved enough to require a tranny shop.

Actually it's quite simple and is part of the "J-mod"..

Linky-linky... (http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/shiftybusiness.html)

For those who aren't familiar, Jerry Wroblewski, the "J" in J-mod, was a Ford transmission engineer who helped design the 4R70W, and there are VERY few people who know more about it than he does. He now works for SCT...

[thePunisher]

yeah...it doesnt have to be done....and an epc pressure adjustment probably will get the job done (thru xcal)...but this valve body mod really gets positive results!! itll throw you out of the seat at wide open throttle on the 1/2 shift.

[Master]

Great information. So, you'd recommend both, really, eh? If so, I'll talk to the folks at Ford about the tranny. And, it sounds like the X-Calibrator is the tuner of choice these days?