"Launch" is served......

[martyo]

Yesterday was the day that I got my Torque Converter and exhaust tips installed. First, let me say this "WOW!" talking about waking up the car!

I went to my guy here in New York (Long Island) Joe @ mustangmagic.com and he set me up (he previously did all of my other performance mods). Joe and his guys (particularly "Marauder Mike") are great guys who love cars (even if they aren't Mustangs). It seemed like the Torque Converter install was a piece of cake for them even though this was the first MM install they did, they have done them on many Mustangs. Using them sure beat using the transmission shop guys who wanted my car for "at least a day" and quoted ridiculous rates. Joe runs a nice shop and has worked on a few of the other NY guys who I sent his way. I haven;t heard any complaints from anyone and I consider myself lucky to have found him.

I got the Torque Converter (and all of my other performance mods) from Dennis Reinhart. Dennis knew exactly what to set me up with. He sold me the chip, Densos, 'stat, driveshaft, and Torque Converter (like others I did this in two stages). Thanks to Dennis's intel and parts, my car is running fast and great. Like Todd (TAF) said in the past, after you do the mods, it is like getting a whole new car.Even you haven't bought the parts from Dennis yet, stop reading this and get on the phone with him NOW!! He knows his stuff and our cars and he will help hook you up. Then just find the right shop like I did and you won't be sorry.

While I was at it, I also did the exhaust tips. Yes, I know, no real performance gains there, but hey I gotta keep that little boy within me happy and the change in the exhaust note was worth it (start to finish, if my math is correct, this mod is less than $175). If $$$ is not an issue, you might want to consider doing what Sam (Wolfe) did and swap out the mufflers as well. I kind of wish I had.....Oh well, there is next time.

The bottom line is the car launches great (although it was pretty wet yesterday and it wasn't easy finding dry pavement to get the car to hook up on. The Torque Converter is a great way to further wake up this car. If I can get some good weather on Saturday (I am working on Sunday -- boo, hiss), I will be out there having some more fun with the car!

Thanks to everyone involved (Dennis, mustang magic, Sarge and the rest of the gang here on the board) in getting my car set up the way I want it.

Now Dennis, about those brakes.......

[TAF]

Sounds good Marty...Congrats on the latest changes!

[rla]

Marty

I still want a ride in that car , see you at the next meet , youve got to get that car to the track and get a time on it .

thanks John

[martyo]

John: Just let me know when....

[hd2805]

Marty,
Why the comment that you wished you had changed your mufflers?? I have the Cone Eng tips on order and have the impression that it will give the exhaust more of a "throaty" sound, not looking for "loud" just deeper... Your comments please...

Thanks, Ed

[martyo]

Ed: Don't panic! Th tips definitely add some throatiness. It's just that everytime I get behind the wheel I lose about 20 plus years in age and the little (well, ok, I was never little, young then), boy in me comes out. Name me one young gun who doesn't think louder equals better. Am I right, LML, Reaper, Long Live 3#????

Do the mod, you'll enjoy it. It certainly won't be overwhelmingly loud.

Oh yeah and keep in mind, my car only has about 1,700 miles on it so I expect as the car breaks in it will get naturally louder (that's what experience and my brothers here tell me anyway).

[hd2805]

10-4 on the 20 years, sounds like this is just what I'm looking for being of the AARP age that I am.... Thanks for the quick reply they just came in UPS 10 minutes ago....

Ed

[martyo]

Enjoy! Look down the tube and compare them to the old ones when you cut them off and you can readily see the difference.

[LincMercLover]

Louder is better, that is until Officer Dick pulls ya over for excessive exhaust and your windows being too dark...

I dunno, I kind of like the quiteness factor of the car. As my buddy in a Monte once told me, "Man, I never know when you're launching! You just up and pass me by!!!" :D That and until I do something with this damn Cougar, I'm broke. (wink wink, nudge nudge)

[mensrea]

Marty... working on a Sunday what gives?????

I knew you'd like the torque converter. Did you send Dennis a Dyno sheet for your car, or did he just have it configured for your car with gears, chip, etc. I know that PI can customize every TC... By the way, I am not sure about the one you have, but Typically PI will give you a retune of the TC if you make a major change in the future (i.e., SuperCharger) gratis.

[WolfeBros]

Congrats on the mods Marty. Dang, that torque converter is going on my must do list.

The exhaust thing is alittle more subjective. When you get the note you want.....that smile gets bigger. Everyone has a different perspective on what that note is and how to get it.

:rock:

[Bigdogjim]

martyo: A work in progress...Thats what it is......Sounds great so far we'll have to have another get-together sooooon........I am like you, need a "little" more rumble back their.....Working on Sunday.....Your worse than me.....hehehehehe
Enjoy
Big Dog

[martyo]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
The exhaust thing is alittle more subjective. When you get the note you want.....that smile gets bigger. Everyone has a different perspective on what that note is and how to get it.

:rock:

Update on the exhaust note: MY GF just called me. She said teh car is now "too loud" and that I am 40 years old and shoudl grow up.....Maybe I am getting the exhaust where I want I to be after all!!!

[martyo]

Originally posted by mensrea
Marty... working on a Sunday what gives?????

I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go......(thankfully) I am busy and the downside to being "owner/operator" is that I have a lot to do. In the words of B.B. King, I am paying the cost to be the boss...


I knew you'd like the torque converter. Did you send Dennis a Dyno sheet for your car, or did he just have it configured for your car with gears, chip, etc. I know that PI can customize every TC...

I did not send Dennis a dyno sheet, but he did help me set my car up from stock "through the mail" so to speak so he knew where my car was. Sure seems like he got it right!!


By the way, I am not sure about the one you have, but Typically PI will give you a re-tune of the TC if you make a major change in the future (i.e., SuperCharger) gratis.

Yes, PI (Precision Industries for those that are reading along), will give a free adjustment. That would mean that the car will have to be disassembled for a while while the TC is out, but if I went with a major change like a 'charger, that would be the case anyway. Also, they paint their TC's purple so that if they over heat, it will show. Pretty cool, eh?

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by martyo
MY GF just called me. She said the car is now "too loud" and that I am 40 years old and should grow up.

Hmmm......Better tell her that there is no chance of that happening Marty. I know because I am 51 and I refuse to grow up ! Besides this car helps keep you young. :D

[gonzo50]

How is the driveability since the change, what is the stall speed of the TC, does it lock and unlock abruptly or is it smooth as the stock one ?:confused: Thanks.

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

MARTY:
your getting me very excited here just thinking about it. I cant wait to start doing mods on my car (right after im done paying for tuition, MM insurance, and now these MM payments are catching up.........aaahhh:(). I gotta check out your car at the next meet (maybe i can skip a tuition payment....... whats the worst that could happen...J/K). Oh well gotta work OVERTIME!

the wether is getting nicer I think its about time for another H(.y.)ters adventure:coolman:



Originally posted by LincMercLover
:D That and until I do something with this damn Cougar, I'm broke. (wink wink, nudge nudge)

I feel your Pain LML, ive got this '78 Mark V ive been tring to get rid of

[SergntMac]

"If it's too loud, you're too old..."

Daddy's remark to my '69 L-88 Camaro with Hooker headers-1970-R.I.P. 1982.

Let's remember that our MMs are small blocks and "square" in the "bore and stroke" sense of what produces exhaust noise.

The depth of her tone is limited, the best we will ever hear her sing, is the best any square small block motor has ever sounded to us.

Cut and paste what you will, she's a tenor. Let her sing Tenor, it's what she sings.

You will not be disappointed.

[WolfeBros]

As usual Sarge is dead on. We are dealing with a pretty small displacement engine here. Anyone wanting to get a big block rumble will be disappointed. I have to tell you though......the compromise is not half bad. :D

Nice to see you back and posting Sarge. :up:

[nexstar7]

congrats marty! got to give me a drive one day to see what heaven feels like.:banana2: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows:

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by SergntMac

Let's remember that our MMs are small blocks and "square" in the "bore and stroke" sense of what produces exhaust noise.


Firing order also has a great impact on exhaust note. I'm a currently running a 'kind-of-open exhaust' on my WS6's LS1, and while it has a great bark at greater throttle openings, it is still whisper quiet at idle and at very low throttle openings (unless I'm under engine-braking, of course). Trying the same thing on an LT1 (pre-1998) of very similar displacement (or anything of older vintage) would result in a one-way trip to the slammer for excessive noise.

For the curious: the passenger's side exhaust pipe is the 'additional' pipe, as 1998 WS6s came with a single outlet high-flow exhaust (which looked stupid, in my humble opinion).
http://firebird.freeservers.com/ws6-old/98_rear_side1.jpg

The pipe runs from just before the muffler:
http://firebird.freeservers.com/ws6-old/flange1.jpg
I used a 3-bolt header-flange to attach the extra factory 3" tip in order to allow the possibility of blocking the open pipe and return to full-factory-layout while still retaining the dual outlets (ie. only one would be functional).

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo

Do the mod, you'll enjoy it. It certainly won't be overwhelmingly loud.


Is there any possibility you or anyone else with a similar exhaust mod could record and upload a sampling of the exhaust note?

Easiest way is with a camcorder, then recording it to a sound card and saving as a .wav file (or .mp3 if you can, to save space). If space to host these files is a problem, I can put them up on my web site for a while... after all, I gotta start dedicating space for the Marauder section of my web site!

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by DLoreanMARAUDER
I feel your Pain LML, ive got this '78 Mark V ive been tring to get rid of

PM me about this...

[martyo]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Is there any possibility you or anyone else with a similar exhaust mod could record and upload a sampling of the exhaust note?

No, I can't upload a sound file, but I'll meet you at the border if you want! I'll have Logan in my trunk; he is trying to get back to Canada anyway and I owe him a favor or two anyway.

[martyo]

Originally posted by nexstar7
congrats marty! got to give me a drive one day to see what heaven feels like.:banana2: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows: :bows:


At the next NY Meet. When is that going to be ?????

[SergntMac]

My MM sounds just like the Mustang here;

www.goravin.com

[nexstar7]

HOW ABOUT LONG BEACH. LOTS OF NICE PUBS WITH BANDS. (EVENING CRUISE AT LONG BEACH). CATCHY AINT IT. ALSO I FINALLY DID THE HEADLIGHTS WITH THE 9007. VERY NICE. NEXT THE SS ON THE BUMPER AND MAYBE BEFORE THE SUMMER THE SHAFT AND REAR END. IM HAVING TO MUCH FUN:banana2: :beer:

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by SergntMac
My MM sounds just like the Mustang here;


with the popping sound?

The boys in blue are going to be watching for you Mac

[LincMercLover]

We can tell nex... :lol:

[LincMercLover]

Originally posted by SergntMac
My MM sounds just like the Mustang here;

www.goravin.com

Hmm... who's gunna be the first to throw on a pair of those Z-33's from that site? :D

[martyo]

Today I put another couple of hundred miles on my car. The streetability of the car is definitely not hurt by the Stallion Torque Converter in anyway. I love the way the car responds to thr pedal. Try it you'll like it.

Also, I had a chance to take a better listen to the baffleless tips. I take back my prior reservations and comments. After some mixed highway and street driving, I now am of the opinion that this set up brings me pretty close to what I expect tgo get out of the system. I do note that when I spoke to Dennis this past week he indicated that he will have the headers ready very soon. Hmmmmm, I may still have some room left before my credit card is maxed out..........

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
The streetability of the car is definitely not hurt by the Stallion Torque Converter in anyway.


Keep an eye on the mpg for us, will you? I'm interested in that bit of info. Thanks.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by RCSignals
with the popping sound?

The boys in blue are going to be watching for you Mac

Speaking of popping:

Being used to the traditional V8 low-RPM rumble, I was quite disappointed at the totally quiet exhaust note of my WS6 at idle and that it only really began to bark at 2000 RPM and above, even with the low restriction exhaust.

The only fun I'd have in normal cruising would be to take it above 2500 RPM in a lower gear, then let the car coast down on engine braking. The PCM would cut the injectors during the coast-down, and I'd lightly *tap* the accelerator, triggering the injectors once again and the sudden rush of exhaust gases into the hot exhaust (due to previous lean operation) would create a pop or two. Really muscular-sounding...

But then I opened up my exhaust as I described (passenger side pipe from just before muffler, like the Borla setup). The muscular sounding pop became as loud as a gunshot! :D

Once I get my scan software, I'll report back as to whether the 4.6l DOHC does the same fuel-cutoff on deceleration.

[martyo]

3TA: I intend to post that later this week. I was too tired (lazy) after my drive and wash to fill the car up. But I did track the mileage so I will be able to post it. I am curios too. If I had to guess, I would say that the mileage hasn't varied as much. It appears that the mileage depends in large part on me and my size 11 and 1/2 foot. Prior to the install of the Torque Converter, I have seen mileage vary from 22.5 mpg (mostly highway) all the way down to about 15.2 mpg (after some spirited driving).

By the way, I saw you mention in a post that you expect your car to improve as you break it in. Although I can't tell what has been caused by my mods and what has been caused by the break-in, my opinion is that car definitely improves after the break-in period.

Yesterday I finally found a quiet, safe, dry, straight strip where I was able to make a couple of passes and punch it from a dead stop. Wowwww! The car launches hard and just keeps going. I am tempted to go out late, late at night and see where the car tops out.

Closing comment: "Man, this is the fastest 4,200 pound (I can't tell you what that is in kilos) car around, bar none."

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
Enjoy! Look down the tube and compare them to the old ones when you cut them off and you can readily see the difference.


I just had a thought. Is there anything that can be done with the original tips to 'open them up' while they're still on the car? ie. any drilling with a LONG drill bit, etc.?

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
The car launches hard and just keeps going. I am tempted to go out late, late at night and see where the car tops out.


I really doubt the converter change will improve any top end. The job of a converter is off-the-line, once it's revving up there above the stall speed the amount of slippage should be minimal. It's not a sharply defined point where the converter stops slipping, but if your stall speed is around 3000 RPM, I'm pretty sure once you reach 4000 RPM the output of the converter is within 200 RPM or so of the input side... unless the converter is already locked up by then, in which case input=output.

Does the MM's PCM lockup the converter during WOT? If so, in all gears? Someone with some programming experience (Dennis? Lidio?) must have come across this info.

[martyo]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
Is there anything that can be done with the original tips to 'open them up' while they're still on the car? ie. any drilling with a LONG drill bit, etc.?

No, the baffles surround the exhaust pipe and are sealed and concealed. The price for the new tubes ($30.00 plus shipping) and install (should be less than $100.00), makes this an affordable mod though.

[martyo]

Originally posted by TripleTransAm
I really doubt the converter change will improve any top end. The job of a converter is off-the-line, once it's revving up there above the stall speed the amount of slippage should be minimal. It's not a sharply defined point where the converter stops slipping, but if your stall speed is around 3000 RPM, I'm pretty sure once you reach 4000 RPM the output of the converter is within 200 RPM or so of the input side... unless the converter is already locked up by then, in which case input=output.

I understand that top speed is not affected by the Torque Converter. It is quicker off the line though. I guess my enthusiasm for how the car runs spilled over into just wondering about how fast it goes at the top end.


Does the MM's PCM lockup the converter during WOT? If so, in all gears? Someone with some programming experience (Dennis? Lidio?) must have come across this info.

I am working on the lock-up issue with Dennis and Mac (his car is almost identical to mine), because I do not think the Converter is remaining locked up. Given my relative lack of experience with Torque Converters, I am not quite sure how to explain it all. I will keep everyone posted as changes are made and information is gained.

[TripleTransAm]

Originally posted by martyo
It is quicker off the line though.


Ahh, I meant to ask you this, thanks for reminding me. When you goose it, does the launch feel harder? ie. does it charge out of the hole a lot harder than it did before? Do you have any improved wheelspin?




I am working on the lock-up issue with Dennis and Mac (his car is almost identical to mine), because I do not think the Converter is remaining locked up.


Oh my, that's a serious issue. If your converter is locking up then unlocking at some point at a higher RPM all the while under WOT, then there's the risk of increased heat generation for too long a duration.

Torque converters that are not locked up will heat the transmission fluid a great deal, this is why cars that are mostly city-driven in stop/go traffic require more frequent tranny fluid changes (ie. taxis, police, etc.). This is due to the shearing action on the oil during slipping conditions... the lockup clutch takes care of this by linking the input side to the output.

If your converter clutch is locked up at WOT and then decides to unlock itself at a higher RPM, you've gotta determine if it's a PCM glitch or an electrical glitch. The symptoms of this would be normal slippage at the launch, then some noticeable surge and slight decrease in RPM (~200 RPM or so) as you approach higher speeds, without losing any speed, then all of a sudden the RPM would surge upward once again without the corresponding increase in speed had it been locked up.

I just thought of something: there was an issue on automatic F-bodies in the 90s where the PCM would incorrectly trigger a "transmission overheating" code, which would then result in an automatic cancellation of all locking functionality in the torque converter, which would itself in turn REALLY increase tranny temps. Perhaps the increases slippage of the higher stall converter is triggering the PCM to unlock the clutch after a few hard launches.

[mensrea]

3TA brings up a good point... Has anyone considered adding an additional trans cooler now that you have the Stallion? I had one put on just to be safe. Cheap addition that could help later.

[martyo]

mensrea: I am likely to do this as one of my summer mods. I doubt my car is going to see much (if any) action at the track. My car is for fun and kicks while getting me to and from, as well as a little street racing when warranted.

Bottom line on the torque converter is that I am glad I did it. The car launches well, drives well, and the torque converter has enhanced the enjoyment I get out of the car. Maybe a little more tweaking just to further dial it in.

In the meantime, I used some of your input regarding the brakes and am in the process of exploring my alternatives in that department. I will share what I learn on the brake issue as things develop.

[mensrea]

Matry... congrats on the mods, and keep us updated on the brakes :)

Enjoy your car

[Reaper948]

Originally posted by martyo
Am I right, LML, Reaper, Long Live 3#????

10-4 on the louder equals better