Valve fragmented today

[G-Man]

I was on I-495S, overtaking a roll off, the MM started to knock, then run rough. I limped her to the office, then called the flatbed. The mechanic said that the #7 cylinder was damaged, the spark plug was collapsed and grounded out. The engine still ran and still made excellent power, but inspection showed that one of the valves (not sure which one until I can get to the garage) splintered and a portion of the face came off ( I hate it when that happens). The piston just beat the piece around the cylinder doing whatever damage that it could.

The mechanic said that it looks like a material defect in the valve itself. He didn't attribute the break to any undue abuse (which would have been an easy out for my application) or assembly build quality. In fact, I have to commend the 4.6L for it's ability to absorb the valve and keep on motoring. I have to make sure that I tell Ford about the survivability of this engine.

Looks like they will disassemble it today, then have the heads sent out for proper inspection and rebuild. The mechanic said that they will replace the valves with stainless steel. He said that he's seen this once or twice before and said that new stock valves won't splinter, but he has them replaced with stainless just to be safe. I think that he said that they send the heads to Fox Lake?

Anyway, I will be Marauderless until they get her all back together. I'm going to head over to the garage sometime later today and check it. I'll see if I can get some pics.

G-man

[juno]

Wow, tough luck, but it could have gone worse.

Keep us posted and here's hopes for a speedy recovery. :)

[Zack]

Sounds like a piston land broke off and took everything else with it.

[Haggis]

Man, Keith your full of good news this morning.


That really does suck...Keep us updated.

Stop by this weekend and I'll buy you a beer or something stronger if needed.

[MarauderMark]

Sorry for your misfortune buddy:( .I hope theres nothing wrong with the block having those pieces banging around in the cylinder.Anything i can do?Give a holla..

[JMan]

G,
Make sure they check the piston height at top dead center on #7. Albeit rare, 4.6's are known for stretching rods. It only takes a couple of thousandths of an inch. The usual symptom is a closed gap on the plug from the increased 'reach' of the piston. Very likely Ford will cover it if that is the case and within powertrain mileage. Sorry to hear about it. I feel for you. Best of luck in your future!

J

[DEFYANT]

Sorry to hear this man! How many miles on the ticker and who is doing the work? Sounds like they know what they are doing.

[Smokie]

Very sorry to hear about the damage to your engine, I hope it comes back stronger than ever.

Pictures of the damaged components would be great if possible.

[Bluerauder]

I was on I-495S, overtaking a roll off, the MM started to knock, then run rough. I limped her to the office, then called the flatbed. The mechanic said that the #7 cylinder was damaged, the spark plug was collapsed and grounded out.
Dang, sorry to hear this Keith. :( Sounds like you are keeping this in perspective and that you even see some positives in it. :D Hope you are back on the road with your MM soon. Marauder withdrawal is painful.

The material failure of the valve is curious. More curious is that it was the #7 cylinder. There have been earlier reports of the engine #7 and #8 running hot and causing damages due to restricted cooling to those cylinders. Have 'em check for signs of scorching. I believe this happened to Murader03 back in April 2004 and possibly others. :dunno:

[Breadfan]

Man that is some bad news! Definitely keep us updated on how it goes, really sad to hear. Hopefully the block and pistons are OK. So far just the heads coming off I presume?

At anyrate, sorry for the misfortune, hope you get it back together soon and get back on the road with the MM. :)

Mike

[Rider90]

I too am sorry to hear about it, but in the future, is there a precaution we can take to avoid this? Or is this one of those randomly selected problems?

[G-Man]

My MM had just a shade over 27K on it when this happened, so I have to agree with the mechanic about the material defect. I have to say that these mechanics are experts in their field and will make sure that things get done right. I can't say that it upsets me too much. I mean, things happen. Fortunately, this one can be fixed.

I want to thank you all for your well wishes. I think that one of the best parts about this board is the people that I have met, both in person and over the net.

I didn't make it to the garage today, but will try to get there tomorrow. It's interesting that you mentioned the #7 and #8 cylinders Charlie. I remember the mechanic saying something about the #8 cylinder showing similar damage as the #7 cylinder. I'm going to go over all of this with the mechanic tomorrow and see what comes up.

On the recommendation of the mechanic, we decided that the two cylinders were damaged enough to have to have the engine removed and reworked. Due to my duty service, they decided to install a new engine (long block) with heavier components to minimize any future issues. The mechanic was tasked with providing all of the new specs. to a specialized engine builder. Unfortunately, I don't know what those specs. are at this point, but it looks like they are going to use this opportunity to upgrade a lot of the components. By all rights, the stock components have worked flawlessly, through some pretty extreme conditions I might add. It was just one piece of one valve that failed.

I'll find out more tomorrow.

[G-Man]

Man, Keith your full of good news this morning.


That really does suck...Keep us updated.

Stop by this weekend and I'll buy you a beer or something stronger if needed.

Thanks Gordon. I could probably use that beer... and something a little stronger right now:D . I'll have to take a rain check.... unless I walk :depress: . Just kidding:D .

Once I get her all back together, and give her a little TLC, then I'll have to get to one of the CAM meets. My work schedule has been keeping me away.

[Joe Walsh]

WOW! Sorry to hear about the valve failure....:(

But It sounds like they are goimg to get you back up and running with an even stronger engine!

BTW: Ron @ FOX-LAKE is one of the BEST cylinder head shops/port work guys out there for 4.6 DOHCs

[Marauderjack]

While your engine is out of the car why don't you get the rear cooling kit from DR and have your "wrench" put it on for you.....Cheap insurance.:beer: :beer:

I'd do mine but don't want to have to pull the transmission and I think it is pretty tough to do with the trans in the way!!?? :argue:

Any of you folke done it without removing the trans??:confused:

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack:rasta:

[merc]

With all these engine and part failures I was thinking of replacing my Marauder with a good old fashion horse.

http://www.yenisayfa.com/imgv/c/shn/iwd_e.jpg

Not to make light of your situation, but I need a job that benifits my drive train. Where do I sign up:lol:

[RoyLPita]

Sorry to hear what happen to your MM. Keep us posted, please.

[G-Man]

Got to see my MM on Saturday. The Mechanic's gave me a moment to administer a little TLC. They lowered that rack and let me wash her all up. She may currently be a boat anchore, but now she is the shiniest boat anchore out there.

They had the motor out and was just waiting on a new one. The two cylinders affected were #6 and #7. It appears that #7 went first, then pushed those fragments back into the intake manifold where they were sucked into #6 damaging that cylinder. There was no sign of any heat related issue or failure. No need for any type of additional cooling modification.

If the valve would not have failed, the engine would still be running like a top. The oil was clean and no fragments made it to the oil pan. The bottom end is fine and tight as can be.

I didn't get any pictures since most of the parts were gone. The S/C and transmission was sent out for complete inspection, and to date, they all look fine. The block is sitting there with the heads back on it waiting to be shipped back to Ford. Looks perfect from the outside, but the mechanic handed me a ziplock baggie full of 1/16" to 1/8" fragments ( not good).

PS: Hey Merc, go to Quantico, tell them I sent you:coolman: , let them torcher you for four months and one day:bows: , then on the last day, they run over your private parts with a tank:bigcry: . Then, and only then, would you be able to handle the enormouse amount of paperwork that it takes to do something this stupid :lol: .

[Zack]

I think the car was pinging.

[Rider90]

Would this prove that our knock sensors aren't all that great?

[Bluerauder]

PS: Hey Merc, go to Quantico, tell them I sent you:coolman: , let them torture you for four months and one day:bows:
Why the extra day? :rolleyes: You'd think 120 days would be sufficient. :rofl:

[Hotrauder]

That day is "TANK DAY." yoooowwwwww!. Good luck G-Man with the rebuild and thanks for the good info. Dennis:)

[G-Man]

Would this prove that our knock sensors aren't all that great?

I don't know about that. Didn't have a detonation issue to begin with.

[G-Man]

Why the extra day? :rolleyes: You'd think 120 days would be sufficient. :rofl:

You would think:lol: , but they always start you on a Sunday and you never get that day back:D .

[MikesMerc]

I think the car was pinging.


Didn't have a detonation issue to begin with.

If the motor was detonating you could tell pretty quickly. A ring landing would be the first to go. I doubt a valve would crumble under detonation without the piston going first.

This should be an easy call for the mechanic. How did those pistons look? Any missing edges (ring landings)?

[G-Man]

If the motor was detonating you could tell pretty quickly. A ring landing would be the first to go. I doubt a valve would crumble under detonation without the piston going first.

This should be an easy call for the mechanic. How did those pistons look? Any missing edges (ring landings)?

Everything that I saw showed the valve face center with a chunk missing. The pistons top showed damage from the piston pounding on the valve piece and has chunks chipped out of it. The mechanic stated no detonation issue and I can't recall having any detonation issue historically since Lidio tuned the car. I know that it was detonating when Lidio tried to tune it about a year ago, but he corrected that issue.

[MikesMerc]

Thanks for the info!

Sorry to hear about all of this. Keep us posted on your rebuild process. Its a good opportunity to beef things up. Good luck!!