Filthy Fuel Filter

[Bluerauder]

The Bluerauder was in for her 30,000 mile service yesterday. Got the full service ... oil change, trans service, fuel filter, air filter .... etc. :D

When I picked up the car, the service tech made a point of telling me that the fuel filter was particularly dirty. I use one particular Sunoco station almost exclusively. Am wondering whether they have a sediment issue with their in-ground tanks and whether I should find another place to fill up. Just wondering. :rolleyes:

Front tires have run into the yellow (4-7 mm) finally after 30K. Rears were replaced at 21K. I'll be looking to replace those fronts soon.

[Canadasvt]

I'd suggest going to another station. Maybe a newer one or one that has had the tanks replaced recently. Hope the fuel pump is okay.

[RoyLPita]

Since I bought my MM used, I'm gonna change out my fuel filter @ 15k for safe measure.

[RF Overlord]

...the service tech made a point of telling me that the fuel filter was particularly dirty.Blue, how did he determine this? Did he cut the filter can open and spread the pleats of the media? Or did he just dump the remaining fuel out the inlet side and see some grunge? I'll bet you probably got a load of gas at one time that had some junk in it...don't panic, the filter did its job.

30,000 miles is a long way to go on the small OEM filter. I recommend upgrading to the larger FG800A filter and changing every 25,000 miles at most.

[Bluerauder]

Blue, how did he determine this?
The way it happened was that when I went to leave the dealer after paying the bill, my "Check Engine" light was on. I tried to recycle 3 times but the light stayed on so I went into the service department and got the tech. He had to take it back into the shop again for another 10-15 minutes or so and mentioned that air bubbles must have gotten into the fuel line when the filter was replaced. Not sure why they didn't see the light the first time around unless the bubble(s) settled while I was paying the bill.

I doubt that he cut the filter .... probably used the "grunge dumping" method. ;) Thanks for the recommendation on the larger filter.

[RF Overlord]

...mentioned that air bubbles must have gotten into the fuel line when the filter was replaced. Not sure why they didn't see the light the first time around unless the bubble(s) settled while I was paying the bill.That's entirely possible...when I installed the larger filter, the check engine light didn't come on until the car had been driven about a mile. I didn't have a code reader at the time, so my favourite local shop cleared it for me, and it never came back.

[wchain]

Find another place to have your car serviced. That tech was giving you a total :bs: excuse. Sounds like he left the gas cap off to help depressurize the system when he changed your filter. DO you know what code it was throwing?

Of course the filters going to be dirty after 30K! Sometimes when you change the filter, turn it upside down (so the flow arrow is pointing upwards) then watch the nasty stuff in the filter pour out. Yeah, its gross, but that means the filter is doing its job! Better in the filter than clogging an injector.

I change mine on all my vehicles at 15K intervals. Even if you use the cheapest filter out there, its better than using the same one for extended periods.

Ever see all those 88-98 Chevy Trucks, Suburbans and Tahoes with fried fuel pumps? Ask them if they change the filter every 15K :lol:

[Eric91Z]

30,000 miles is a long way to go on the small OEM filter. I recommend upgrading to the larger FG800A filter and changing every 25,000 miles at most.

Is that a Ford Part number that most dealerships should have for the larger fuel filter? Just wondering if they will carry to have done at next oil change.

[wchain]

Yes but will not fit in the cage that the smaller filter fit in. IIRC you will also have 90 degree bends in the fittings.

[Eric91Z]

Yes but will not fit in the cage that the smaller filter fit in. IIRC you will also have 90 degree bends in the fittings.

So this is more of a DIY than quick replacement?

[RF Overlord]

So this is more of a DIY than quick replacement?Yes. I doubt you'll get the dealer to do it for you, as most will not install anything on a car that it wasn't originally spec'd for. Check out the how-to (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/faq.php?faq=how_to#faq_fuel_fi lter) article in the FAQ.

[fastblackmerc]

Get the bigger filter and you can place it in the same place as the original filter, just get a worm-gear clamp to fasten it to the bracket. BTW the bigger filter is FG800A Ford/Motorcraft

[tmac1337]

It does sound like some smoke was being blown at you. Can't tell a filter element is dirty unless you cut the filter housing open. I just changed my filter with a NAPA Gold and I had the check engine light come on too, a common occurence. Took 1 minute to clear with my Predator.

[QWK SVT]

Blue, how did he determine this? Did he cut the filter can open and spread the pleats of the media? Or did he just dump the remaining fuel out the inlet side and see some grunge? I'll bet you probably got a load of gas at one time that had some junk in it...don't panic, the filter did its job.

30,000 miles is a long way to go on the small OEM filter. I recommend upgrading to the larger FG800A filter and changing every 25,000 miles at most.

I wouldn't wait that long to change the filter, myself. A dirty filter can and will lean an engine out (seen it happen). I don't like taking those chances, and change the fuel filter every second or third oil change (which occurs every 3,000 miles), depending on how hard I drive those miles. Fluids and filters are easy and very important to maintaining your vehicle...

[Bigdogjim]

The Bluerauder was in for her 30,000 mile service yesterday. Got the full service ... oil change, trans service, fuel filter, air filter .... etc. :D

When I picked up the car, the service tech made a point of telling me that the fuel filter was particularly dirty. I use one particular Sunoco station almost exclusively. Ask the owner or manager how often the change the filter on the pumps? Am wondering whether they have a sediment issue with their in-ground tanks and whether I should find another place to fill up. Just wondering. :rolleyes: You should never fill up if you see a tanker truck dropping a load of gas, that will really cause the sediment in the bottom of the tanks to mix with the gas being pumped.Lots of station have gas dropped over night, if it is very close to the time they open and you fill in the AM that is something to look into.

Front tires have run into the yellow (4-7 mm) finally after 30K. Rears were replaced at 21K. I'll be looking to replace those fronts soon.

Good wear for fronts I got 30,000 on mine and the sidewalls are showing cracks (dryrot)

[RF Overlord]

QWK SVT, that's why I said 25,000 miles "at most". I figure installing the larger filter means I don't have to reduce the change interval by as much, but it's an easy and inexpensive service item, so changing it even sooner is certainly not bad idea, although IMHO doing it every 6-9,000 miles as you do does seem a bit overkill... ;) I would think every 15,000 with the larger filter would be a good compromise.

[Bluerauder]

Find another place to have your car serviced. That tech was giving you a total :bs: excuse.
Wes ... I am really happy with this particular dealer and have been taking my MM there for the past 28 months. In fact, I drive about 20 miles cross town to go there because I am treated right. So, this particular incident is not a big deal. I was worried more about the service station that I use quite alot.

There is another L-M dealer about 4 miles from me that I refuse to use. Their lot is cluttered with barely enough room to move and 1-2 times that my son's 2001 Cougar was serviced there it had to go back multiple times. Bottomline is that I wouldn't trust the closer dealer to change the tires on a "Radio Flyer". :rolleyes:

[KilledKenny]

Check engine light was probably set due to a misfire code. What sometime happens when you change the fuel filter on a return less system you have the possibility of getting air in the system. When the air reaches the injectors you get a lean condition which causes a misfire until all the air is purged from the system. The tech probably did not run the vehicle long enough to completely purge the air from the system.

[vegasmarauder]

The check engine light usually comes on after a fuel filter change because the computer read a low fuel pressure reading while the filter and lines were repressurizing on the first start. It thinks you have a problem holding fuel pressure when the car is off, which could result in hard starting, misfire etc. Some cars can repressurize fast enough to do it with only one turn of the key, but I have run into several MM's that won't.

The best thing to do after a fuel filter change is to turn the key to "on" but don't start the car. This lets the pump cycle for 5 seconds and then it auto shuts off. You can hear the pump running if you listen close enough. Turn the key back off and then back to "on." You do this about three or four times, then start the car. No more check engine light. It seems not all MM's will throw the light, but enough do so I follow this procedure when I change my fuel filter. I change it at about 15K intervals since it is so small.

[Bluerauder]

The best thing to do after a fuel filter change is to turn the key to "on" but don't start the car. This lets the pump cycle for 5 seconds and then it auto shuts off. You can hear the pump running if you listen close enough. Turn the key back off and then back to "on." You do this about three or four times, then start the car. No more check engine light.
I recycled mine three times; but I guess I didn't leave it in the "On" position long enough for the pump to spin up. :rolleyes:

[Hotrauder]

Good info guys. thanks. Dennis

[KilledKenny]

The check engine light usually comes on after a fuel filter change because the computer read a low fuel pressure reading while the filter and lines were repressurizing on the first start. It thinks you have a problem holding fuel pressure when the car is off, which could result in hard starting, misfire etc. Some cars can repressurize fast enough to do it with only one turn of the key, but I have run into several MM's that won't.

The best thing to do after a fuel filter change is to turn the key to "on" but don't start the car. This lets the pump cycle for 5 seconds and then it auto shuts off. You can hear the pump running if you listen close enough. Turn the key back off and then back to "on." You do this about three or four times, then start the car. No more check engine light. It seems not all MM's will throw the light, but enough do so I follow this procedure when I change my fuel filter. I change it at about 15K intervals since it is so small.

I have never had a low fuel pressure code (P0191-fails when the fuel pressure falls below or exceeds a minimum/maximum calibrated value for a calibrated period of time) when changing fuel filters on ford vehicles. Not saying that code can't happen. :) Only codes I ever see is the the P0300 series code for misfire on certain cylinders. Cycle the key will sometime help build the pressure but there is still air in the system. On a returnless system there is no return line for the air to bleed off so the only place for air to escape is threw the fuel injectors. What I do see is that the vehicle is more prone to having a misfire code when changing the fuel filter on a hot engine. So maybe help prevent MIL light from comming on after changing a filter is to do it on a cold engine.

[Marauderjack]

I always cycle my fuel pump several times after changing the filter to get the system full and then start it...No codes ever!!:beer:

I cannot see how you would get a misfire code unless a plug doesn't fire.....How does the PCM know there is no combustion in any given cylinder when the plug fires......fuel or no fuel??:confused:

I suppose if it runs really rough for a second or two the PCM would get some kind of signal but don't know what that might be??:(

Marauderjack:burnout:

[KilledKenny]

I always cycle my fuel pump several times after changing the filter to get the system full and then start it...No codes ever!!:beer:

I cannot see how you would get a misfire code unless a plug doesn't fire.....How does the PCM know there is no combustion in any given cylinder when the plug fires......fuel or no fuel??:confused:

I suppose if it runs really rough for a second or two the PCM would get some kind of signal but don't know what that might be??:(

Marauderjack:burnout:
Here is how the misfire monitor works on Ford vehicles.
The Misfire Detection Monitor is an on-board strategy designed to monitor engine misfire and identify the specific cylinder in which the misfire has occurred. Misfire is defined as lack of combustion in a cylinder due to absence of spark, poor fuel metering, poor compression, or any other cause. The Misfire Detection Monitor will be enabled only when certain base engine conditions are first satisfied. Input from the ECT or CHT, MAF and CKP sensors is required to enable the monitor.

1)The PCM synchronized ignition spark is based on information received from the CKP sensor. The CKP signal generated is also the main input used in determining cylinder misfire.
2)The input signal generated by the CKP sensor is derived by sensing the passage of teeth from the crankshaft position wheel mounted on the end of the crankshaft.
3)The input signal to the PCM is then used to calculate the time between CKP edges and also crankshaft rotational velocity and acceleration. By comparing the accelerations of each cylinder event, the power loss of each cylinder is determined. When the power loss of a particular cylinder is sufficiently less than a calibrated value and other criteria is met, then the suspect cylinder is determined to have misfired.
4)Misfire type A:
Upon detection of a Misfire type A (200 revolutions) which would cause catalyst damage, the MIL will blink once per second during the actual misfire, and a DTC will be stored. (Also some vehicle will also disable the fuel injector to prevent any further damage from raw fuel going threw the cylinder with a Type A misfire)

Misfire type B:
Upon detection of a Misfire type B (1000 revolutions) which will exceed the emissions threshold or cause a vehicle to fail an inspection and maintenance tailpipe emissions test, the MIL will illuminate and a DTC will be stored.

The DTC associated with multiple cylinder misfire for a Type A or Type B misfire is DTC P0300.

The DTCs associated with an individual cylinder misfire for a Type A or Type B misfire are DTCs P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0307, P0308, P0309 and P0310.
Hope this help everyone to understand how this system works. :)

[Two Hawks]

Good info guys. thanks.I second that. :up:

[cornholio]

Code is set and MIL comes on due to the very sensitive fuel pump monitoring system these cars have. Usually code is a p0191 (fuel rail pressure sensor performance fault) and is set due to the "low" pressure detected after fuel filter was replaced. Clear it and forget about it, just a glitch, most ford products with electronic returnless fuel systems don't do this. Change your filter every 15k miles, keep tank above 1/4 tank all times and pump should last a very long time. Also, something I always do, if you see a tanker truck filling up the station, move on to the next one. I think a lot of debris gets stirred up when the tanks at station are filled and who knows how good their filters in the pumps are??

[Marauderjack]

Thanks Kenny!!!

Our on board diagnostics stuff is much sharper and MUCH more involved than I ever thought!!:eek:

GREAT explanation!!:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout: