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04MEMA
02-09-2006, 10:10 PM
Sorry this is soooo long winded but I'd like to share my recent experience with you all regarding my alternator (scroll down to the last big paragraph for the bottom line). Keep in mind (as I am) that I just finished this tonight, so we'll see if this fix holds up. Anyway, the battery light on the dash board came on a week or so ago (04 MM with 21k miles). So after consulting the repair manual I followed some simple steps to diagnose the problem. The battery was in good shape according to the voltmeter readings and so was the wiring leading to it. (I had recently replaced the crimp on connector {just the one near the alternator, I have to do the other one still} that came with the Trilogy kit with the butt splice kit that was recommended by the fellas {thanks guys!} and I wasn't sure if that had anything to do with this but since I installed it a week or so before the light came on it was certainly in the back of my mind). Another aside was that right after installing the Trilogy (about a year and 16k miles ago) and starting the engine for the first time the battery light on the dash came on, and went away after disconnecting and reconnecting the alternator clip plug - didn't work this time. One of the steps the manual recommended was to disconnect the 3 pin connector on the alternator, start the engine and then rev it to over 4,500 for 3 seconds. The three prong clip has to do with computer control of the alternator, and by performing this step it's supposed to put the alternator in to some default charge mode. So after revving the engine up, if the alternator still is okay, a voltmeter reading will show about 14v at the battery. The problem I had was that the rev limiter was bouncing at 4,500 RPM in park. I wasn't sure if that was as the factory sets it or a Trilogy program thing, and in hindsight I could have experimented more (like in neutral) but seeing as the battery was still reading under 12 volts after trying this step I decided I probably should just get a new alternator. (The manual said if revving the motor like that didn't work to replace the alternator).

So after checking around I found a Mercury dealer with a reasonable price for a replacement - actually the price seemed quite good, about $140 plus $60 core. In fact I had talked to another local Merc dealer that qouted me around $290 with the Ford employee discount, so I shared that info with the person I placed the order with as I was suprised and pleased. Of course you know what happened next right? Well after placing the order for the good price, I get a call back and am informed that the original qouted price was a mistake, something about there being a part number change (?) and the real price was about $190 plus a $75 core. Oh well, what are you gonna do right? So I said send it to me. Keep in mind I'm in a pinch for time here as my winter ride (92 GMC Jimmy) is really in need of a rebuilt motor and I hate driving it right now cause it's running poorly and burning oil and embarrassing me everywhere I go. I ordered the alternator last Friday and it was on my porch when I got home on the following (this) Wednesday. Well the box was ripped along one edge, and my eyebrows went up. Hmmm. Got the Treo 650 camerea phone out and took a picture prior to opening (I took a bunch of pics, hopefully I'll figure out how to post them here). I opened the box to find that the receptacle that the 3 prong plug connects to was damaged. The plastic was broken and the retaining prong was broken off (see pic).

I'm not certain whether the damage was a result of improper packaging or improper handling or both, but I wasn't happy. I decided to get one with things anyway so I removed my old alternator and realized that I needed to change the stock clutched pulley with the one supplied with the Trilogy kit. THis requires a special socket tool that was also supplied with the kit. After hours of searching through all my junk, I couldn't find the tool! Oh well. I closed up shop for the night...

So the next morning (this morning) I called the Mercury dealer I ordered the replacement alternator from to get some support with regard to the damaged unit I had received. I was informed that the problem was mine to take up with UPS. Seeing as the dealer had sent me a good part and UPS damaged it. He said he could send me another one, and with the mood I was in I assumed (I didn't ask) he meant I would have to foot the bill for that one too, he certainly didn't say it would be free of charge. Short on patience I wanted to end the call, so I said I'd handle it and got off the phone. I wasn't pleased when I got off the phone. I actually called back later to speak to someone else regarding this matter, they didn't have a customer service rep, and I ended up leaving the owner a message (around 10:30 AM) and didn't hear back from him today. As far as the damage issue goes, it's my opinion that it's the seller's responsibility to get the part to me unscathed. I gave them $300 on my charge card and I got a broken part. Now if it was imoporperly packaged, it's not my fault. I did not select the shipping company or handle any of those details. And I don't even know yet if insurance was paid for on the shipment. So there's my $.02, but that will have to be resolved later maybe, on with the rest of the story.

Despite the fact that Jerry from Trilogy made quick work of letting me know that he could help me out with getting me the pulley removal tool, I was unable hook up with him today to get that taken care of. I called Jerry today and left him a voice mail, and he got back to me and left me one too. My thanks to you Jerry for your undying support, you're the man. Anyway, so I'm at home tonight out in the garage looking around for the tool some more, in the places I looked last night for the removal tool. No luck. I even call my Mom over to use her "ESP" powers that she has exhibited in the past (hey, praying didn't work!)... After she tried to help find it (by looking in the places I had already looked twice) she made a comment about the broken piece on the new alternator. She wondered if I could just remove the part that was damaged and replace it with the undamaged part from my old one. I had thought of that but her bringing it up got me thinking. Actually, what I was thinking of was how if I swapped the new part on to the old alternator, and that just happened to be the part on the old one that was broken, I wouldn't have to change that pulley! Heah, wow great idea. The only problem then would be the fact that the three prong plug wouldn't have anything to clip into, so I'd have to get the Maguyver nylon tie kit out, but I could make it work, probably. So I took off the back cover on the old alternator (3 bolts) and realized that the part in question was simply held on by 3 more bolts. The part is a plastic piece (I don't know the proper name, but since it was coneected to the computer lets call it "the controller") with two spring loaded metal pieces that ride on two separate points on the main alternator shaft. Other then those two contact points and the 3 bolts, there's no other connection to the rest of the alternator. Seeing as the rev the engine over 4,500 RPM step hadn't really worked out as it should have, I decided that this part swap might be worth my time. So I did it (swapped the new broken clip controller onto my old alternator), reinstalled it and it worked. No battery idiot light on the dash and 14 V at the battery while running. I took the car out for a 5 mile test drive and all was well. Now, who knows if that will hold up, only time will tell. The thing I want to check into is what this "controller" would cost to buy. If it's like $40, it may be a good choice for others to try before replacing the entire alternator. Maybe, maybe not, I'm just sharing what I've learned here in an attempt to help my Maurader brethren and sisteren(?) in the future.

I'm going to check into the price of the "the controller" and I'll post what I found out.

As far as the remainder of my new alternator goes I guess I have a couple options. I can buy a new controller and have a brand new alternator that I can either keep for when mine burns up eventually, or I could try to sell it at a bit of a loss on the site here, maybe then I could get my core deposit back from the dealer... I'll have to figure this out.

Thanks everybody,

Jeff

04MEMA
02-09-2006, 10:12 PM
Here's some more pics

Tallboy
02-10-2006, 07:54 PM
Great info, Jeff-thanks! Remember, we're here if you need us!:)

You gonna be back on Woodward this year?

04MEMA
02-11-2006, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the feedback Chuck, and you know I wouldn't miss the dream cruise. You gonna make it bro?

Tallboy
02-11-2006, 08:18 AM
Thanks for the feedback Chuck, and you know I wouldn't miss the dream cruise. You gonna make it bro?

I'll be there waitin' on ya! First round at Duggan's is on me!:beer:

Hotrauder
02-11-2006, 08:35 AM
Thnaks for the poop Jeff. Good info for all of us. Excellent descriptions and pics. Hope it holds up for you. :beer: Dennis

Badger
03-29-2006, 07:36 AM
My alernator problem is remarkably similar.
New alternator just installed. At idle she was fine. Took her out for a few runs and she stopped charging.
One minute 14VDC next moment after a quick run she was down to 12.3VDC.

04MEMA
03-29-2006, 07:14 PM
Hey,
Here's what's happened since my last installment. The part that I referred to in my previous post as the "controller" is in fact the regulator. I picked up a replacement for mine (they're around $30) and was good to go. Incidentally you can change that with the alternator still installed on the car with a Trilogy MM. Then I had to deal with the damaged replacement alternator that I had purchased. Upon advice from the parts man at the dealership I ordered the part from, I contacted UPS to file a claim. I explained the situation to UPS, sent them my pictures and was told I would hear back from the dealership in about 10 business days. I did and was very pleased that he would take back the alternator for a full refund! Happy customer here. I will give them my business again for sure. Sometimes things like damage happen, and as long as there's support everything works out fine. :) :beer:

So I was good to go for about 3 weeks when the f'n light on the dash reappeared! I had put about 600 miles on the car since I installed the new regulator on the original alternator. So what was I going to do? Well to make a long story short, through revving the motor up over 4,500 rpm in 1st gear for 3 seconds (remember there's a rev limiter that won't let you go past 4,500 in park - not sure if that's in the Trilogy tune only - anyone with a stock MM could confirm) I was able to get the light to go off again. And for whatever reason the light went out after several intermittent reoccurences. Then the battery light just stayed off and the alternator was working again. So now, it's been working fine for weeks, not one time has it gone on since. Who the heck knows what was going on, but for now I'm back in business.

Hope this info benefits people here, ya'll have always gone out of your way for me! :D

I've been PMing Badger trying to lend assistance, not sure if I've been helping at this point. Does anyone know off hand (I can't recall) when installing the Trilogy kit if you splice into the three wires that connect the wiring harness to the regulator? It occured to me that if I did a poor job splicing those wires, that could be the cause of the intermittent troubles I've been experiencing and perhaps Badgers issue too?

Thanks,
Jeff


P.S. Chuck - Spring's here and I can almost taste that beer you're gonna buy me at Duggans! Can't wait :banana2:

Hotrauder - Thanks for the feedback and the good wishes! :banana:

jgc61sr2002
03-29-2006, 07:18 PM
Thanks for the update.

Badger
03-30-2006, 05:01 AM
Update: Brought the car to the Mercury Dealer. Tech working on it has actually installed three other Trilogy kits on three of his friends and on his personnal car. I think I'm in good hands.
He ran the alternator circuit back to the PCM. The PCM is sending out an error code of P0622, alternator circuit (F) fault.
While he was tracing the system out I went to an independant testing shop to test my original alternator.
He found that while the part number on my alternator matched the decription of a 2003 Merc Marauder, the connection diagram and pictures of the alternator were DIFFERENT. So we may be looking at a late year model change to the alternator that was made sometime before April 2004. Under the front control arms mounting bracket topic from about a year ago I noticed that my MM had steel vice aluminum. So there are physical differences between MMs in the same year period as well.
We are presently waiting on my replacement alternator from Mercury. Once that arrives it will be installed and the third party alternator will be removed.
I will keep everyone updated.
One though was that the reving of the engine might be to get the Throttle Position Sensor above 1/2 throttle. This is one of the permissives for the cutout of the alternator field. The field will cut out above approx 1/2 throttle...but for not more then 4 seconds and only if the voltage is above 13.6 VDC.
Would a faulty Throttle Position Sensor cause the PCM to stay in alternater field de-energized mode?

merc
03-30-2006, 07:21 AM
Update: Brought the car to the Mercury Dealer. Tech working on it has actually installed three other Trilogy kits on three of his friends and on his personnal car.

P.M. with name and dealership

Badger
05-17-2007, 03:30 AM
Long overdue update: The fault turned out to be a bad crimp. My install shop for the SC sodered the one splice but didn't soder the other one. As the car ran and the alternator wire grew hotter the splice would open up more and create an open circuit. The connection was still good enough to show low resistance when cold...but pass a 100amps through it and it would create an open circuit. My tech who has since moved on to another FORD shop when Cherner Mercury closed was the one who found this out. Kudos to him. Once the second splice was sodered I haven't had a problem since.

10741
06-11-2007, 03:00 PM
Do you still have the new Alternator? I think mine is going bad and need a new one but what kind of pulley is on the new one? I might be interested in the Alternator if you still have it, give me a shout:)I have Trilogy kit #13.

04MEMA
06-11-2007, 05:20 PM
Okay - this thread resurrection reminded me that there's one more thing to add here.

Later - my battery light came back on. I found that there was a lot of corrosion where the battery cable connects to the alternator. I cleaned it up with the dremel and all has been good since...


Jeff