4.30s best for NA cars?

[Marauder.45]

My fellow Marauders,
First post here,
Used the search function to read up on gas mileage, rpm differences, etc etc.
I read in one thread from Billygman that 4.30s are a good fit for NA cars. I want to hear a little more on that. Stock gears right now, and was going to order 4.10s. Since a $5k supercharger is in my way distant future, maybe 4.30s is it.
Currently my 03 has the K/N FIPK kit, and tuned with the handheld SCT tuner. My complete Kooks system has been ordered, and I expect it in a few weeks. Stock wheels and tires with no plans to mess with tire sizes.
Give me some input guys, thanks.

[LVMarauder]

I like the 4.10's no doubt but if i was going to do it over again yes I would go to a 4.30. I dont drive on the highway alot and theres some extra go and rpm increase with the latter. Zex gives me all the power I need on the bottle but for NA use i think 4.30 might be better.

[bigslim]

I would have to say that if you are going to get a supercharger stay with the 410's. That is my personal opinion.

[Marauderman]

Heres my oipinion-

I went to 410's before I was S/C'ed. It was great. Great Bang for the Buck as Sarge says.........however, after I was S/C'ed , I really couldn't "feel " where the 410 "added" anything-- it was more the blower doing all the "feeling".........but the 410's remained--and continued to give that quick accleration.....then came the event of blowing the motor---so during the rebuild I decided to up it to the 430's and I added the PI 3K TC.....now after this there was so much BANG ...I wasn't sure which buck bought it and where it was coming from.......a definite plus ..but wasn't sure from which it came---the PI or the new 430's or the motor or the upgraded blower-----something you shouldn't do when upgrading--alot at once like I did--cause you want to know in stages --your bang for the buck--I really did too much at once--as usual---ok back on subject........

After a long recent trip with the 430s , I averages 18MPG on a new motor--not bad and the city average is now up to 15......the increae over the 410;s is abiout another 200 RPM's..... but I think the big answer lies in what is your plans with the car--city driving or doing road trips..cause ....if I was to do the latter, I would keep the 410's in regardless of being S/C'ed..... as for a N/A MM, the answer here is the same.... if to be blown in the future, and no road trips alot, I would do the 430's and if alot or frequent road trips are likely now and the future, I would do and stay with the 410's --period.... Tom

[AzMarauder]

My fellow Marauders,
First post here,
Used the search function to read up on gas mileage, rpm differences, etc etc.
I read in one thread from Billygman that 4.30s are a good fit for NA cars. I want to hear a little more on that. Stock gears right now, and was going to order 4.10s. Since a $5k supercharger is in my way distant future, maybe 4.30s is it.
Currently my 03 has the K/N FIPK kit, and tuned with the handheld SCT tuner. My complete Kooks system has been ordered, and I expect it in a few weeks. Stock wheels and tires with no plans to mess with tire sizes.
Give me some input guys, thanks.

"Way distant future" is hard to define. My suggestion is to look at what you want the end state to be. If S/C'd is your end state... then make decisions now that will compliment the end state. That, or be aware of the cost if you make a mod for the interim that won't work with your end state... and understand that you will have to go back and redo it.

So, having said that... the 4.10s seem to be the most popular gear with folks here, but some S/C folks say they really don't feel they need them. Billy runs his 4.56s ( I think 4.56) with his S/C and likes them. My end state was S/C, and it included 4.10 gears as part of the end state package. I put the 4.10s in before I had the S/C. Had the 4.10s not been part of the planned end state package with S/C I would not have put them in for the interim period.

Good luck with your choice.

[Marauder.45]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

It's kind of a toss up for me. I live in South Jersey, and have a pretty decent mix of "city" type driving and 30-50 mile trips, with a few South Carolina trips, a few DC trips, and maybe 1 Florida run in there.

Distant future for me is probably 2 years to never. (Wifey don't think too highly of $6k on a blower with a new baby in the house:( )

I ran a 14.56 @ 94 in 50 degree weather last November (Atco, NJ) with a K&N air kit and mild SCT tune. I have ordered a Kooks system, and plan on gears. I'd like to get into the mid-low 13's with those mods and a more aggressive SCT tune. That's like $2k. I don't know if $6k is worth another 1 second.

[RF Overlord]

^^^what bigslim said^^^

I chose 4.10s before I had any intention of getting a blower, and I still think they were the best overall choice even after installation of the Trilogy kit. slim, along with a few other members in his area, have done WAY more tuning & testing, and have more track time with a Trilogy blower than I ever will, so I guess my initial choice of 4.10s was fortuitous......

[juno]

4.30s on the MM will make it fly!
But just for reference, with stock size or 28.5" tires each gear step change (3.73 - 3.90 (non-ford), 4.10 - 4.30 - 4.56) will add about 5% or 120 rpm at 85 mph. So say you went to the 4.30's, you would be turning 3000 or so RPM at 85 or over 500 rpm over stock. If you don't cruise at that level or you don't mind, that is fine. The car will scream from a light. :cool:

Check out this link to get exact numbers.

http://www.svtoa-atlanta.org/cgi-bin/trans.cgi

Edit - BTW that will limit you to "only" an 11.3 in the 1.4 at 120 (rough calc)

[Logan]

Having owned both 4.10's and 4.30's in both a N/A and supercharged Marauder... 4.30's all the way...

[Marauder.45]

Having owned both 4.10's and 4.30's in both a N/A and supercharged Marauder... 4.30's all the way...

That seems like some sound feeback. Thanks Admin:beer:

[Smokie]

My fellow Marauders,
First post here,
Used the search function to read up on gas mileage, rpm differences, etc etc.
I read in one thread from Billygman that 4.30s are a good fit for NA cars. I want to hear a little more on that. Stock gears right now, and was going to order 4.10s. Since a $5k supercharger is in my way distant future, maybe 4.30s is it.
Currently my 03 has the K/N FIPK kit, and tuned with the handheld SCT tuner. My complete Kooks system has been ordered, and I expect it in a few weeks. Stock wheels and tires with no plans to mess with tire sizes.
Give me some input guys, thanks.

I guess your mind is made up about changing gears, personally I like the long legs on the 3.55's. I don't know what your goal is but here are some facts: When I was N/A my 1/4 mile times were better than many cars that had mods equal to mine PLUS 4.10's.

After Base T-Kit install my et's remain better than mods equal to mine PLUS 4.10's, if you MUST do gears; go with 4.30's or higher because at the track my personal experience running against 4.10's is this: no faster than 3.55's.

No offense intended to anyone with that gear ratio I am just honestly relating my experiences.

[Marauder.45]

I guess your mind is made up about changing gears, personally I like the long legs on the 3.55's. I don't know what your goal is but here are some facts: When I was N/A my 1/4 mile times were better than many cars that had mods equal to mine PLUS 4.10's.

After Base T-Kit install my et's remain better than mods equal to mine PLUS 4.10's, if you MUST do gears; go with 4.30's or higher because at the track my personal experience running against 4.10's is this: no faster than 3.55's.

No offense intended to anyone with that gear ratio I am just honestly relating my experiences.

I also don't doubt that. In Nov last year(50deg), I did 14.56 in Atco NJ with K&N air kit and mild SCT tune. I've seen some slips with higher times and a much longer list of mods.
You're saying you didn't do your gears until after blower? When you say other cars with 4.10s, are you saying that the MM doesn't see that much difference between 3.55 and 4.10? Top speed isn't too important to me, how often can you do 140mph safely? And my MM only makes 20-30 passes a year tops, so she ain't a dedicated track car. She's a daily driver, and I wan't to make the most of her. I also want to eat HEMIs.:burnout:

[Smokie]

I'm saying I have never changed gears, I like the 3.55's very much. Although I have nearly 100 passes, I suspect those numbers will not increase by much in the future.

With the S/C the gears are unnecessary in my opinion, my engine can run faster than 12.9...my rear tires cannot hook-up.

If you are reasonably sure a S/C is not in your future, I would recommend the 4.30's over the 4.10's; simply I have no personal evidence that 4.10's when all else is equal produce better 1/4 mile times than 3.55's.....however they do produce slightly better 60' times..... I hope this information is of some value and I am sure you will recieve responses contrary to mine, that will help you to form a decision after you weigh your options. Best wishes.:)

[Bradley G]

simply I have no personal evidence that 4.10's when all else is equal produce better 1/4 mile times than 3.55's.....{quote}
"I Do":D
I reduced my best 15.1 ET stock to 14.5 with 4:10's and SCT hand held tuner & JLT CAI.
Admittedly, some have nearly equal times without any mods.
I agree with Smokie, on the point of a Trilogy develops enough low end torque that a taller gear just shreads your stock rubber more!
I am also under the opinion that, a tenth better 60' time will net you two tenths better ET.My best N/A ET 14.2@ 45* my best S/C ET 13.6@ 50*(different tracks)
Several others have raced my car as well, including Zack, no one has run it any faster than that.
ZIIIIIIP:flamer:

[ckadiddle]

Excellent discussion, gentlemen. I have been pondering rear gear ratios lately. I will never have the dough to supercharge.

Idiot question here:

I don't care about fuel consumption, track times, or top end speed. I just want to occaisionally surprise some doofball that thinks he's badazz with his Chrysler/Dodge/Honda etc. and he thinks I'm driving a geezermobile. What are the most heinous gears that will fit a Marauder?

[Blackened300a]

What are the most heinous gears that will fit a Marauder?

Probably BillyGman's 4.56 ratio maybe the wildest. Its also based on what tune you can get to make the transmission work with the wild ratio's

[ultravorx]

i have the 4.30's on my car, and couldnt be happier!!! It has great pull and still launches at 80mph and above, the only draw back is your top end goes down, but who want to drive that fast!:cool:

[Marauder.45]

Anyone keep their 3.55s with a blower? Any problem with 4.10s being too much gear once S/Cd? Just tearing tires?
It seems that 4.10 is the most popular, but does anyone know of someone who has kept the stock gears?

[StevenJ]

Rick-n-Miami has a Trilogy kit with stock 3.55s and is more than happy. He also has kooks full exhaust and a number of other performance upgrade parts, like the K&N CAI kit.

[GreekGod]

I'm surprised more isn't made of the 28 spline axles being too small and light duty. Drag racing a #4500 car with sticky tires and 4.30 rear gears is just asking for trouble with 28 spline axles. Reinhart has the 31 spline for a reasonable price. I read that Ford has the 31 spline for Limo service. Might be an even less expensive upgrade.

[SergntMac]

I'm surprised more isn't made of the 28 spline axles being too small and light duty. Drag racing a #4500 car with sticky tires and 4.30 rear gears is just asking for trouble with 28 spline axles. Reinhart has the 31 spline for a reasonable price. I read that Ford has the 31 spline for Limo service. Might be an even less expensive upgrade. Remember now, when you change axles to 31 spline, you need to change the differential. Add it all up, it's over 1K for this mod.

[jdando]

Anyone keep their 3.55s with a blower? Any problem with 4.10s being too much gear once S/Cd? Just tearing tires?
It seems that 4.10 is the most popular, but does anyone know of someone who has kept the stock gears?

I have the stock gears.

jeremy

[mpearce]

With an SCT chip, and 4.10's only...I went from stock 15.19 @ 93.xx to a 14.23 @ 97. Thats almost an entire second. I believe Smokie hit a 14.4x with just a flash? If thats right, you can attribute my extra .2 tenths to my 4.10's. You'll hear arguments either way on this. 4.10's, 4.30's, 3.55's etc. Do what you want. As long as you get a tune, and do a gear change, or don't do a gear change, you'll be pleased with the change in your MM's preformance. It's all about personal preference. I'm building a dragstrip monster. In time, it'll be the way I want it to be. All I need is patience. This car is my "toy". I don't take family in it, I don't get groceries in it, and I don't drive it daily. Think about the final goal of your car, then chose your mods wisely.

-Mat

[mpearce]

Remember now, when you change axles to 31 spline, you need to change the differential. Add it all up, it's over 1K for this mod.

Mac, can you explain this in more detail? I have 4.10's currently...so if I switch to the 31 spline...I'll have to change up my 4.10's to something different? I was under the impression I could keep them.

-Mat

[SergntMac]

Mac, can you explain this in more detail? I have 4.10's currently...so if I switch to the 31 spline...I'll have to change up my 4.10's to something different? I was under the impression I could keep them. -Mat No -Mat, you can keep your 4:10s, that's just ring and pinion gears which are universal to any 8.8 differential. But, you'll be paying another "setup" labor charge like you did the first time, plus the cost of a 31 spline diff, and the axles. Add it all up, and remember it's not necessary for any Marauder under 450 RWHP. The factory stuff with girdle and stud lit, is more than strong enough for this level of power.

[GreekGod]

The 28 spline axles are a safety concern, just as brakes would be with certain uses and power upgrades. I contend they are the weak-link in the 8.8. They are retained by "C-clips" a-la GM 12 bolt axles. "Staged performance" and safety are always involved in proper modifications.

Axle shaft end play/travel is controlled by the C-clips.

I do not care for the wheelbearing/axle design of the 8.8" in our MM application. The bearing rides directly on a machined and hardened surface of the axle. It is a somewhat upgraded, direct (and blatant) copy of GM's (Salisbury) 10 and 12 bolt design axles. It is a "cheap" and more efficient design than Ford's now long discontinued 9" axle. I suspect NHRA requires c-clip eliminator bearing (safety) hubs if a MM is quicker than a certain time in the 1/4 mile. I'm told the c-clip kits tend to leak axle grease.

A nice alternative would be tapered roller bearing hubs with matching 31 spline axles. The bearings are typically pressed on the axle shafts and help keep the wheel-tire assembly with the car if an axle breaks, hence the NHRA requirement for safty-hubs with c-clip design axles. Tapered bearings can control axle-shaft endplay and are considered safer.