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marauder307

02-10-2006, 11:05 PM

^^^^^
That's the sound I was making today, at the dealer.

We've had to revisit the issues with my squeaky front end. I thought I had it solved...guess that's what I get for thinking.

Whoever told me that they figured my control arms were the problem, give yourself a beer. :beer: You got it.

The big catch here---and the one that's driving me nuts---is the front end control arms. Apparently the bushings are gone; so sayeth the front end specialist at the SVT-capable dealer I've been going to lately. If this were an ordinary Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, it wouldn't be a problem; those parts are fairly common and easy to acquire---the central Ford parts warehouse here on Oahu would probably have 'em.

But this is a Marauder. Both the upper and lower control arms under the front end are aluminum, and apparently with pressed-in bushings (or so goes the impression that I'm getting from the Ford techs at the dealership). This means that the bushings can't be replaced; ya gotta do the whole arm. The price for just one lower arm for the Marauder? As quoted to me today: $336.95, for just one. I need two; the uppers are $148/change each. And then throw in roughly 4 hours of labor, at their dealership.
To say nothing of the alignment afterwards....

I'm worried that, with the car now out of warranty, there's going to be some more hidden "bombs" lurking in the mechanical work. The $1600+ that this trip is going to cost me is nearly 3 months worth of payments on this thing.

I've been toying over the last 4 months with the idea of giving up on the Hulk and going over to a new Charger. I've been vacillating back and forth pretty heavily, but this new problem is about to send me right over the edge. I can get all the same things that attracted me to the Marauder---full size, 4 doors, powerful V-8, LOTS of amenities---with some more platform commonality (the Charger shares its underpinnings with the Magnum and 300C), so the parts supply will be more plentiful.

I don't know fellas...this one's hurtin' real bad. I just got done shelling out a downpayment on the ol' CC for my fiancee's new Freestyle last week, and now this.

Can anybody offer some constructive input here? In the midst of my temporary insanity, I'm not thinkin' too straight. If anybody's got any lower-cost ideas, I'd definitely be open to 'em.:depress: :depress: :cry:

rocknrod

02-11-2006, 12:42 AM

Fix It?........:confused:

Gryphonzus

02-11-2006, 01:46 AM

It seems to me that if you have had it to the dealer for this problem before and it is documented while it was under warranty it should still be covered under the warranty. Was it documented? If so confront the dealer with the documentation and request it be repaired on their dime. At the least contact the Ford Warrant hotline and discuss the problem. The 1-800 number should be in the owners manual in the back I believe. Just don't give in on the issue it sounds like from what I have read from your posts in the past that it should be on their dime. Good luck!!! and keep us posted.

Vortech347

02-11-2006, 01:54 AM

Wow I have a tiny rattle/sqeak coming from the front right side of my car. Sounds like I should get it in.

STLR FN

02-11-2006, 06:33 AM

How far out of warranty are you? If not too far I'd argue it to death and as said before if you have it(the noise) documented while the vehicle was under warranty and they didn't notice till now(after you're outta warranty how convenient), yea I'd argue like heck with the owner or call Ford Customer Service.

BTW: I got the same noise coming from my front end. Luckily my service advisor said it would be covered under warranty((I just went past(36056) when I bring it in for an alignment next week.

Bluerauder

02-11-2006, 06:39 AM

I've been toying over the last 4 months with the idea of giving up on the Hulk and going over to a new Charger.

.... I just got done shelling out a downpayment on the ol' CC for my fiancee's new Freestyle last week, and now this.
So, I guess waiting for the Dodge Challenger is out of the question ... ;)

Downpayment for the "fiancee's" Freestyle??? :P H#LL I had pains over doing the same for my wife's Freestyle .... and we've been together 30 years !!! :rofl:

Hotrauder

02-11-2006, 09:02 AM

NO advise, man other than that Charger will be one of hundred of thousands before you know it. Something to consider is how unique are cars are. I am sure that the dealer wrenches are all over your car as they are mine when I go to the dealer or anywhere else for that matter. Good luck. Dennis:)

hitchhiker

02-11-2006, 09:14 AM

Can MM owners revert to the steel control arms used on the CVPI's, as an option, if replacing front upper and lower control arms?

:D

TripleTransAm

02-11-2006, 09:16 AM

NO advise, man other than that Charger will be one of hundred of thousands before you know it. Something to consider is how unique are cars are.

The bottom line is: how much money are you willing to spend for that uniqueness?

DEFYANT

02-11-2006, 09:21 AM

This is normal. Resist the urge to sell.

Everytime a big repair bill comes in for ANY car you own, the first thing people say is "Blah, sell it!"

Would you be looking to sell if the squeak was gone tomorrow? Prolly not.

Can you manage the repair yourself?

duhtroll

02-11-2006, 09:38 AM

Does Metco still make some of our control arms? why not upgrade for about the same money?

That would be a win in my book - I'd have an excuse to go spend money on a mod.

Now if I could convince my wife that the factory supercharger was broken and I'm out of warranty, I could go get a Trilogy.

:P

-A

MikesMerc

02-11-2006, 09:40 AM

The bottom line is: how much money are you willing to spend for that uniqueness?

Yep. That's the issue. Chargers are nice, but they are a dime-a-dozen.

RVT04

02-11-2006, 10:17 AM

Linda and I just got back from college station,Tx. home of A&M and Texas World Speedway! It was a training weekend for both of us. She had ce hours at the college and we both were enrolled in a driver's edge training course at the track. Classroom instruction, track supervisor in car driving and instruction, more classroom, track supervisor riding in car with owner driving, more track time, lead and follow, and then open session work on the 2.9 mile road coarse. check out the TWS website and you will see what i'm saying. now the good part. most of the instructors there had never seen a MM, little lone driven one; and these are road coarse professionals, talking lines, brakes, corner set-up...etc. and everyone of them that was in my car or Linda's car all said the same thing, These cars "HANDLE EXCEPTIONALLY WELL FOR A BIG CAR." so i like my metco control arms and addco sway bar and the car is huge fun in a four wheel power drift @85 mph through wide sweepers and although the vettes and porches out power me in the straights i'm all over there ass in the corners (street tires). so what has a charger got on that?
i had a chrysler once, it was a straight line car and a real pig in the corners
i would think twice about dumping my MM for an unknown
imho
:banana2:

marauder307

02-11-2006, 01:01 PM

Thanks fellas...it feels good to know I've got friends here.

I've slept on it; still thinking about the Charger but less so than last night.

For Bluerauder: Please allow me to refer you to my thread on the Storyboard, "Marauder adventures". The most recent post details my line of thinking on the Freestyle.

For STLR FN: I'm afraid I'm too far out man...38.5k on the odo now, and I went out at 36k. As for having it diagnosed under warranty, it wasn't; back when I was under warranty I thought the squeak was my Addco swaybay bushings and had the L-M dealer (and then the SVT Ford dealer) look at those instead. It's a good idea, but I just don't think it's gonna fly in this particular case. As it is, I think the real damage was done in shipping; the damaged parts in just the right spot for those dummies at Matson/American Auto Logistics to have thrown tiedown chains over 'em, and that definitely would have caused the arms to chafe the bushings to the point of failure.

Everybody has made a great point about the uniqueness of the car; I've posted over at the Chargerforums.com boards, and even they have commented that they thought the MM was special. But....it's that unique quality that's got me worried, and it's what is going to cost me buku bucks for this repair. MM parts ain't really like anything else out there (despite the point of view held by our detractors), and when you live out on the edge of the free world---aka Hawaii---the cost of keeping up a special jewel of an automobile (I don't think of it as just a mere "car") becomes damn near to astronomical.

Couple all this with the fact that I've got a new fiancee in the house, who's still trying to get on her feet after the move out here, and I've got a wedding coming up in June that I've got to pay at least a part of (hoo boy), and plane tickets to buy to get to said wedding,......I just threw $1500 on the CC last week for her car's downpayment, and now I'm staring down the barrel of a $1600 bill for fixing the Hulk....I gotta start thinking hard about the future, here.

I dunno. I've got a birthday coming up; my folks usually kick out a couple of big checks for b'day expenses. I've got to file about 4 tax returns this year (RITA forms---only for us DoD personnel who move around---and Fed, MO state, and HI state), and I figure to hit it decently big on the "tax return lotto" this time out, so maybe it won't be so bad. But I sure am feeling the heat right now....

Thanks again fellas...I'm feelin' in need of the support...:up:

EDIT: Just thought of something...if y'all are wondering what it sounds like, it's a kind of metal-to-metal groan. The sound is localized to the pass. side of my dash; I initially thought the windshield was loose in its mounts and was going to fall out. It makes a metal-to-metal squeak anytime/everytime the body flexes. My parking alley here has a dip in the middle with a drain grate; every time I pull out of the garage and get a little sideways in the parking alley (in order to leave the place) the body will flex over that dip and I get a small "gronk" sound coming from under the front end. According to the wrench at Ford, that's the control arms shifting around on their mounting bolts because the bushings are stripped/broken, and rubbing up against the body itself.

sweetair

02-11-2006, 01:57 PM

I had a slight squeak and a spring type noise in my car that just appeared after 2.5 years and 18500 miles. I posted it on this site and was offered some advise as to what the problem might be. The hood being loose. I adjusted the two rubber stoppers on the front end, made them a few turns higher, and shebbang, no more noise. I was detecting the niose at low speed only and when I was turning the wheel back and forth rocking her left to right. I hope this helps someone out there, it took care of my issue. Good luck...............

Smokey

02-11-2006, 04:01 PM

Yep, my '04 Vic has made that noise since I got with 28K on th odometer. I finally got to reading online and tried some silicon spary on the hood bumpers and no more squeek! Amazing what a little research and friendly advice will do! Also, I only noticed mine while I was doing a slow turn like through a parking lot or in and out of a driveway. It sounded like it was coming from the right front.

RCSignals

02-11-2006, 04:13 PM

..........................

The big catch here---and the one that's driving me nuts---is the front end control arms. Apparently the bushings are gone; so sayeth the front end specialist at the SVT-capable dealer I've been going to lately. If this were an ordinary Crown Vic/Grand Marquis, it wouldn't be a problem; those parts are fairly common and easy to acquire---the central Ford parts warehouse here on Oahu would probably have 'em.

But this is a Marauder. Both the upper and lower control arms under the front end are aluminum, and apparently with pressed-in bushings (or so goes the impression that I'm getting from the Ford techs at the dealership). This means that the bushings can't be replaced; ya gotta do the whole arm. The price for just one lower arm for the Marauder? As quoted to me today: $336.95, for just one. I need two; the uppers are $148/change each. And then throw in roughly 4 hours of labor, at their dealership.
To say nothing of the alignment afterwards....

This does not sound correct about the control arms. If bushings can be pressed in, they can be pressed out. I suspect the replacement control arms at some point (when new replacement part stock runs out) will be 'Ford authorised reconditioned' units anyway.(therefore used control arms with new bushings)

The upper control arms on the '03, and I assume later, CVPI is forged steel, the lower is aluminum the same as the MM.

now, if this was documented before you went out of warranty, it can be covered under warranty. Even if not, unless things have changed, one 'out of warranty' service coverage can be approved.

RCSignals

02-11-2006, 04:18 PM

The bottom line is: how much money are you willing to spend for that uniqueness?

You mean like owning a Trans Am WS6 M6?

RCSignals

02-11-2006, 04:25 PM

EDIT: Just thought of something...if y'all are wondering what it sounds like, it's a kind of metal-to-metal groan. The sound is localized to the pass. side of my dash; I initially thought the windshield was loose in its mounts and was going to fall out. It makes a metal-to-metal squeak anytime/everytime the body flexes. My parking alley here has a dip in the middle with a drain grate; every time I pull out of the garage and get a little sideways in the parking alley (in order to leave the place) the body will flex over that dip and I get a small "gronk" sound coming from under the front end. According to the wrench at Ford, that's the control arms shifting around on their mounting bolts because the bushings are stripped/broken, and rubbing up against the body itself.

My '03 CVPI had that same sound from new. It turned out to be an insulator pad, body to frame that needed to be put back in place...it was out of position. It took the Tech a little bit to find, but it fixed the problem.

It seems very odd that front control arm bushings would wear this quick.
Did you ever have an alignment? If so perhaps whoever did it didn't retorgue bolts properly.

I've taken apart '57 Fords that still had their original control arm bushings and they were just fine!

mtnh

02-11-2006, 05:45 PM

Check out www.fordparts.com. That will give you a ballpark for what Ray can get these for. I see $188 for a right lower control arm ass'y. Don't replace more than is needed to cure the noise. These things don't normally wear out. You should be out of this problem for less than $600. Good luck and thanks for your service.

mtnh

02-11-2006, 05:50 PM

Oh yeah, the MSRP is $257, so these guys are scamming you!

Description Year MSRP Price
LOWER CONTROL ARM, All Models, Right - FROM 2003 03-06 $257.07 Your Price $188.94

LOWER CONTROL ARM, All Models, Left - FROM 2003 03-04 $259.20 Your Price $190.51

And don't rule out an after warranty adjustment. Ask for it by name. It is sometimes used where you pay a portion and Ford pays the rest of a repair that is close to your warranty end date. It's all up to the dealer, but I have yet to score on one. It works best with your selling dealer, provided that you have maintained service visits with them which is not your case I know.

mpearce

02-11-2006, 05:56 PM

Any dragstrips in Hawaii? We're going out there in December, just curious.

-Mat

TripleTransAm

02-11-2006, 06:14 PM

You mean like owning a Trans Am WS6 M6?

Actually twice as rare as my Marauders for less initial $$ outlay. And sadly, way more than twice as well-screwed together.

About 3000 1998 Ram Air Firebirds planned for 1998, all sold-out by the time the first one was actually built. Leased for three years, had I not wanted to keep it I would have been able to make a $5k profit by buying/re-selling (even factoring in the leasing costs). And that is not even considering the negotiated total vehicle price that was $4k under the MSRP, for a vehicle that was already pre-sold (they had opened up an additional 300 units over the initial 2700 unit run, which I got in on). All this for a vehicle that continues to be rock solid as if I had bought it yesterday.

Compared to an over-priced parts bin car that has me leaving the car at the dealer for up to 5 days straight at each regular maintenance visit, to handle all the warranty work that has to be done. And at the end of the lease period, cars with 1/3 the mileage of the lease period can be had for under 80% of the listed buyback price.

You don't need an Excel spreadsheet to do the math, most modern operating systems have basic calculators that can show you which one is the better buy.

I'll be following this thread very closely, as this afternoon MM#2 developped an annoying squeak/groan related to suspension travel. I can't afford to take time off work this week to deal with it, and within 2 weeks I'll be needing this car every day for family hauling reasons and can't get stuck with some small rental car for the duration of the car's downtime.

Today has not been a good day...

marauder307

02-11-2006, 11:02 PM

Any dragstrips in Hawaii? We're going out there in December, just curious.

-Mat

Yes! The speedway's somewhere out near the Ewa Plain area (pronounced EVA like 4-eva) near the western end of the H-1 freeway. Keep pestering me about it, because I'm kinda absentminded here lately, and I promise to look it up for you.

:burnout: :burnout:

RCSignals

02-12-2006, 12:28 AM

.........................
I'll be following this thread very closely, as this afternoon MM#2 developped an annoying squeak/groan related to suspension travel. I can't afford to take time off work this week to deal with it, and within 2 weeks I'll be needing this car every day for family hauling reasons and can't get stuck with some small rental car for the duration of the car's downtime.

............

Steve, read my post above about the CVPI. I thought it was a suspension travel squeak as well, but turned out to be much simpler.

TripleTransAm

02-12-2006, 08:01 AM

Are these insulator pads the same as the cushions used for the body mounts? I had someone look over the mounts a few weeks back, since this made a big difference in the feel of my MM#1 on the road. Nothing reported found, and no change felt on my part... but then again my favorite tech decided he's fed up of working on Fords (and apparently cars for that matter) and has left the trade, which sucks because he was one of two 'Gods' at this dealership (and the other one doesn't really foster any religious inspiration from me). So my safety net is gone: from now on I have no other choice but to use the "But my OTHER Marauder doesn't do this!!!" approach when reporting an annoying but hard-to-diagnose problem.

I'm currently fighting off a nasty cold that is embedding itself deep in my lungs (my achilles heel)... I need to keep it together until Wednesday for an important meeting and then I have a small window when I can take some sick days, at which point I'll probably dump MM#2 at a dealership I've yet to choose and just say "fix it".

Warpath

02-12-2006, 11:27 AM

The bushings cannot be pushed out and replaced on an aluminum arm. The new bushings won't stay in. Pushing them in and out essentially damages the bore and you lose the press fit. The same is true for ball joints. Swapping bushings or ball joints can be done on steel arms if done carefully.

Control arms hitting the body? If that was their own words, I question either their integrity or knowledge. You won't get the arms to touch the body without getting into an accident. And, MMs use the same front UCAs and LCAs that base CVs, TCs, and GMs get. The previous stamped steel A arms from 2002 and older are from a different suspension and will not fit.

If you are concerned about longevity of these vehicles, consult other MM owners who have high mileage.

marauder307

02-12-2006, 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=Warpath]The bushings cannot be pushed out and replaced on an aluminum arm. The new bushings won't stay in. Pushing them in and out essentially damages the bore and you lose the press fit. The same is true for ball joints. Swapping bushings or ball joints can be done on steel arms if done carefully.

Control arms hitting the body? If that was their own words, I question either their integrity or knowledge. You won't get the arms to touch the body without getting into an accident. And, MMs use the same front UCAs and LCAs that base CVs, TCs, and GMs get. The previous stamped steel A arms from 2002 and older are from a different suspension and will not fit.
[QUOTE]

I don't know about "hitting the body"...I was left with the impression that they were simply flexing/working against the mounting bolts that hold them in place....it doesn't sound so implausible; with the bushings (that ordinarily surround the mounting bolts) gone, there's nothing there to protect the bolts themselves from the
normal movement of the arms as the car body flexes. Consequently, we get the metal-to-metal squeaking (along with a few "clunks" and "bonks" that have begun to
show up). Add into this that the car itself "feels" loose; no two wheels feel like they're going the same direction, and when I hit potholes on the freeway (oh yes...we have got potholes....saw one eat a Volkswagen the other day) then the fronts in particular just feel like they're all over the place.

marauder307

02-12-2006, 03:09 PM

Oh yeah, the MSRP is $257, so these guys are scamming you!

Description Year MSRP Price
LOWER CONTROL ARM, All Models, Right - FROM 2003 03-06 $257.07 Your Price $188.94

LOWER CONTROL ARM, All Models, Left - FROM 2003 03-04 $259.20 Your Price $190.51

I tried looking there....couldn't duplicate your search results. Doesn't mean that your find isn't there...odds are more likely that I'm not doing the search right.

Still...you HAVE reminded me of one very important fact: I don't HAVE to buy the parts from these guys. Their price is probably right, when you take into account a) the dealer markup, and b) the fact that we're out on the a$$-end of the supply chain here in Honolulu. It's a long tough wait to get parts out here, even in this modern day/age when you can plunk something on a UPS or FedEx plane and get it out here literally overnight.

The only problem with that approach is that they charge you for it. And with me looking to cut some serious financial corners here...airfreightin' anything's out of the question.

I'm going to try giving Ray (TheDealer) a call....mebbe he can come up with something....:up:

JACook

02-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Yes! The speedway's somewhere out near the Ewa Plain area (pronounced EVA like 4-eva) near the western end of the H-1 freeway. Been there. Checked it out on one of my business trips over there. It's in Kapolei, out at the west end of H1. Off at
Kalaeloa, and go south. Pretty cool strip They had some pretty serious iron the night I was there.
My buddies did warn me not to go too much farther west, though. Something 'bout haoles in rental cars... :gangster: :eek:

dwasson

02-12-2006, 08:10 PM

I have a rule for how long to keep a car. My rule is: Keep it until it costs me a car payment, three months in a row.

RCSignals

02-13-2006, 12:18 AM

Are these insulator pads the same as the cushions used for the body mounts? .............

apparently not a body mount as such, an insulator pad that had to be repositioned. Apparently not easy to get at, but a simple adjustment. The culpret on mine was out of position. I was convinced it was a suspension squeak, it happened every time the car rolled over a dip in the road.

Take care of that cold! Getting into your lungs is not good.
I've been battling a cold the last while, but luckily (if it's luck) it has stayed in my sinus mostly.

RCSignals

02-13-2006, 12:21 AM

.............. And, MMs use the same front UCAs and LCAs that base CVs, TCs, and GMs get. The previous stamped steel A arms from 2002 and older are from a different suspension and will not fit.

except the UCA on the '03 CVPI are forged steel.

Badger

02-13-2006, 05:21 AM

I found some differences in how the control arms are mounted to the frame among the MMs.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17386&highlight=Badger

metroplex

02-13-2006, 09:30 AM

Ford says NOT to re-use control arms even on the Panthers with the stamped steel / forged steel arms. You CAN push it out (just like ball joints) but you run the risk of enlarging the hole, which results a non-interference fit. Russ's 99CVPI had that problem with the new ball joint popping out.

Warpath

02-13-2006, 07:34 PM

except the UCA on the '03 CVPI are forged steel.

All 2003 and newer Panthers get the same front UCA. In other words, CVPIs, GMs, TCs, limos, etc. all get the forged steel front UCA.

marauder307 - Do you have any witness marks on the wheel well inside liner from the tire rubbing against it? If not, I still doubt the arms are hitting the body. I guess I should take another look under a vehicle. I just don't see that happening though.

RCSignals

02-14-2006, 02:54 AM

All 2003 and newer Panthers get the same front UCA. In other words, CVPIs, GMs, TCs, limos, etc. all get the forged steel front UCA.

marauder307 - Do you have any witness marks on the wheel well inside liner from the tire rubbing against it? If not, I still doubt the arms are hitting the body. I guess I should take another look under a vehicle. I just don't see that happening though.

That's what I thought, except it seemed marauder307 was being told his UCA were aluminum.

Warpath

02-14-2006, 09:55 AM

Front LCAs are obviously aluminum. The rear UCAs in the newest limos are aluminum. But, that's it for aluminum control arms.

marauder307

02-14-2006, 12:57 PM

That's what I thought, except it seemed marauder307 was being told his UCA were aluminum.

I was.

Update on the parts issue: Ordered a full set of front CAs from Ray yesterday. That act was, in itself, an interesting comment on the cost of living out here...even with the cost of shipping factored in (and I took the cheap option---UPS, 1 week ground---added roughly $250 to the cost), the parts cost still came in about $250 less than it did to simply buy the parts through the dealer here (they were ready to charge me just over $1000 for a full set of FCAs!)

I went ahead and cancelled the parts order with the local dealership....kept the service appointment open though.

For those of you speculating on witness marks and other stuff, please let me refer you back to post #28 in this thread, and offer my own theory as to why the bushings have failed prematurely:

It was the act of shipping it out here. What I suspect---and what I'll have to wait until the 24th to see---is that the shipping company used the LCAs as the tiedown points on both the truck trailer and the ship. Just simply threw the chains/straps over the arms and torqued 'em down, HARD.

So what developed then was the irresistable force (4000 pounds of Marauder) pulling against the immovable object (the truck trailer, and then the ship), with the LCAs and those bushings in the middle.

Is the car going to give? No.

Were the trailer or the ship going to give? No.

Were the arms going to give? Maybe...if the pounding had continued long enough.

So that leaves the bushings. Those bushings were not designed for that kind of loading...sure, they were going to work in their mounts as the car naturally moved down the road, but this kind of severe push/pull/and then a twist movement wasn't factored in by the Ford engineers.

So here we are, 5000 miles later, and those bushings already had 33k of hard service (running all over St. Louis roads) behind them when they started their journey out here. And the bushings are utterly shot, probably completely gone out of their sockets, and now the arms are loose and working against their mounts.

So goes my theory anyway. What I will want to see, when I take the car down for service on the 24th, is whether or not the LCAs have evidence of chafing on them. If the shipping company used chains, it'll be easy; there'll be burrs and wear marks all over everywhere. If they used straps, it'll be harder, but I'm still hoping to see evidence of chafing. And if that's the case....

I'm going to own that friggin' shipping company. Period.

Warpath

02-15-2006, 10:46 AM

marauder307

02-15-2006, 12:17 PM

Do you know who shipped it? Did you buy it from a dealer there or from the mainland and shipped it yourself? Either way, you should have one of them pay for the repair if your theory is true. Shipping companies should use either wheel tie downs or the frame tie down locations. I believe tie down locations are published by OEs for towing companies to use. You may want to contact a towing company to see if they have this publication. It may come in handy.

I'll answer your second question first: It was purchased at Daytona Beach L-M in Feb 2003. The answer to the second question is that it was shipped under Dep't of Defense subcontract by American Auto Logistics (corporate offices are in New Jersey) in August of 2005 using a Matson Shipping Lines Ro-Ro (Roll-on/Roll-off) cargo ship. It did NOT ride on the upper deck.

There's actually an old thread running around here somewhere that will illuminate you further---I can't find it, but I'm sure the Bunny Lady can dig it up. She helped me resize the pics I took of the car on delivery and they're posted in it, but brace yourself---they're pretty ghastly-looking. The thread's closed but it still should be around.

You're right about the tiedown specs and all the rest of that, but ya gotta remember, you're dealing with a DoD civilian subcontractor---they don't feel any particular need to treat anything that's handed to them with any real care or respect, because they know they're going to get paid the same no matter what. AAL has already denied one claim from me. I filed because they screwed up the paint on both rear rocker panels (chafed it with a tiedown strap, it looks like) and punctured one of my rear tires. Their response? "Well, you didn't point this out at the time of delivery so we're not liable." You'll need to see the other thread to understand why I didn't....

cb13

02-18-2006, 09:24 AM

MaLo03

02-18-2006, 10:21 AM

Let me check mine out before my warranty is up

SergntMac

02-19-2006, 02:48 AM

I just read this thread for the first time, top to bottom. Something is not adding up, IMHO, and I suggest a professional frame shop be consulted for a "second opinion" before surgery.

I have owned 3 Marauders, two of which exhibited similar noises. The repairs did not involve control arm bushings. My #3 has 72K miles on it, without any suspension noise at all, and nothing in the records to indicate it ever had such a problem. Please have your Marauder looked at again, by an independent pro.

marauder307

02-25-2006, 03:09 PM

Well....

After two weeks waiting for parts and an open shop slot, and 6 1/2 hours spent in the dealership's waiting room...and walking around the lot...and buying lunch at the Kailua MacDonald's (there are some really freaky people wandering loose on this island)...I got the new arms on and the car realigned.

AND THE DAMN SQUEAK'S STILL THERE!!!!:mad2: :mad2: :fire: :mad2: :mad2:

Oh, this thing's pi$$ing me off...at least I got lucky with the labor; the shop manager was a really great guy and did an out-of-warranty adjustment which allowed me to get the work done on Ford's dime. That part's great, but it's clear this damn car's going to make me fix it by attrition---I'll just keep replacing parts until I finally "Forrest-Gump" my way across the offending squeaker.

I really wish some of the Marauder experts were out here; this thing could be fixed so quick. What do any of you want to bet that it's probably some stupidly simple thing to fix, something little 2$ part that I could pop in and out with ease but is guaranteed to drive me abso-friggin-lutely ape*****?

Place yer bets, folks, place yer bets...aaaarrrrrrggghhhhhhhhhh . :shake:

looking97233

02-25-2006, 07:10 PM

Sorry for your long struggle.

My bet is: Hood latch.

Try putting some white grease on the latch, see if the problem goes away. If so, the latch needs to be adjusted, if not, I dunno.

Rod.

P.S. I had this. I thought is was suspension related too.

Warpath

02-26-2006, 11:51 AM

Squeeks are hard to find. It could be anything from suspension to a broken body spot weld. Obviously, do all the free stuff first to save money. Do as Rod suggested. Also, grab a torque wrench and a service manual and tighten every suspension, body mount, and powertrain bolt and nut you can reach. One of them may be loose (perhaps even the ones on the arms which were replaced). Lastly, spend the money on a huge stereo system or exhaust and drown out the squeek. It worked for me on my Cobra. After about 15 mph, all my squeeks and rattles disappear. ;)

Donny Carlson

02-26-2006, 12:21 PM

One of the things you all need to consider is that the Marauder is a special variant of the CV/GM platform, of which there are an extreme number that have been produced over the years. Even in MY 03 and 04, the total number of Panther platforms built was huge. It doesn't help that a huge number of these cars were built for livery service, law enforcent/public service use, and the Mercury base model of which the Marauder is a variant was sold mostly to older buyers.

If you are going to compare fairly to other brands, you should do so their their special variants. Example: The Marauder is more fairly compared to a Charger SRT-8 or 300C-SRT8 than the base models or upsale versions of the base models. The question then becomes how many more SRT-8 versions were sold compared to the two years of the Marauder, and how well did those SRT-8's hold value?

It's even a worse situation right now. Marauders have not really bounced back in used car prices, though I expect them to within the next year or two. It remains an incredible bargain for buyers, which is why we are seeing so many young owners of Marauders popping up.

RCSignals

02-27-2006, 09:52 PM

MENINBLK

02-27-2006, 10:08 PM

$1600 to fix is still a lot less to pay, than buying a new car...

And you still get to keep your Marauder.

marauder307

02-28-2006, 01:41 AM

...And of course I forgot to mention in my last post: After the arms were off, I checked them over for chafing damage (from tiedown chains). Wasn't any. The bushing on the right lower arm was split all the way through tho...

I'm changing course with my theory; gonna go back and look hard at the a/c mountings. The a/c service was the last warranty item done and that's where the squeak started. Now I wonder, from the location of the squeak and the nature of the work done that precipitated it,.....perhaps it's somewhere on the pass. side of the firewall area. Does anybody know what parts of the a/c system is mounted on the firewall, and where it's mounted? The work that was done was replacement of the condenser, evaporator, and clutch pulley.

To address the comments on the uniqueness of the car: I think that in time there will be a collector market for this car. I also think that anybody who's bought one of these "betting on the come" with the collector market may be in for a bit of a disappointment.

They WILL be collectibles, but not right away. Yer gonna have to wait about 10-15 years before people's interest starts perking up. All that said, fear not; if an old mid-70's Dodge Aspen tarted up to be a Dodge Magnum can start commanding collectible prices, there's hope for us Marauder owners. If the 1979 Chrysler 300s (which were nothing more than sported-up Cordobas) can start bringing in premium prices---which they have already in some places---then we've got absolutely no problems at all. Even the mid-70's Mustang IIs with the quote-unquote "Cobra" package :puke: are starting to appreciate, albeit slightly.

If you're REALLLY into the idea of using your Marauder as a four-wheeled nest egg, then roll out the shrink-wrap, make sure that garage is nice and weather-tight...and we'll see you again in,...oh....about 15 years.

But don't worry....we'll still be here. :up:

TripleTransAm

02-28-2006, 08:21 AM

They WILL be collectibles, but not right away. Yer gonna have to wait about 10-15 years before people's interest starts perking up.

I'd be more inclined to say 20 years (at least). I've been closely following the musclecar/collectible market since the mid 80s, and in particular the 70s Trans Ams (perhaps in subconscious anticipation of an eventual purchase of a '77/'78 model?). The REALLY desirable models would show signs of activity at just under 20 years, the run of the mill model would begin appreciating at 20 years, and the less desirable models just slightly longer.

I had developed this theory sometime in the mid 90s, and lo-and-behold I saw a big price jump in 1998 when it came to the 1977/1978 Trans Ams.

A lot of this is due to the number of people who owned such a car in their youth. I don't think that's going to happen with the Marauder. Look at the current market values for a 1970 Marauder: I saw the supposed last 1970 Marauder built (one of 3000 units?) in "impeccable" shape list for $6200. Factor in the dollar equivalency versus 1970... not a tremendous investment. And that's 35 years later!

Add in the lame-duck reviews for the current generation and Mercury's (Ford's) own disinterest in the vehicle... that won't help collectibility. The modified cars help address some of the beefs in those lackluster reviews, but who's going to pay a premium for a modified used car? Again, look at the market history: the modded classics always lagged behind the unmolested originals until the supply ran out and market demand was forced to shift to whatever was left. But again, there's gotta be a base demand there to begin with.

TripleTransAm

02-28-2006, 08:27 AM

Lastly, spend the money on a huge stereo system or exhaust and drown out the squeek. It worked for me on my Cobra. After about 15 mph, all my squeeks and rattles disappear. ;)

The problem with this approach is that it does nothing to address what pedestrians or other motorists hear as you go by, squeaking and groaning. Obviously one chooses a vehicle such as the Marauder partially for vanity reasons (the "look at me!" factor) and the squeaky groaning suspension-type sound contributes poorly to this image. With my 1st MM, the hood latch groan was so evident on hot days that people did look as I approached on the slightest bumpy streets (sounded like a big rusty old bed spring, but more hollow and metallic... and louder). MM#2 is beginning to drive me up the wall with its slightly different higher-pitched groan.

Consider how well the Marauder is insulated, sound-wise: if you hear it inside the car, imagine how loud it is OUTSIDE the car.

TripleTransAm

02-28-2006, 08:29 AM

Does anybody know what parts of the a/c system is mounted on the firewall, and where it's mounted?

Is it at all possible that they might have loosened the fender itself to improve access to some A/C component on the firewall? If so, perhaps there's a fastener of some sort that is rubbing.

The lazy approach to changing a power antenna on a 3rd gen Firebird or Camaro (1982-1992) is to loosen the fender, although I'd prefer going to the trouble of removing the inner fender liner instead, to avoid disturbing the factory panels.

Warpath

02-28-2006, 09:45 AM

The problem with this approach is that it does nothing to address what pedestrians or other motorists hear as you go by, squeaking and groaning. Obviously one chooses a vehicle such as the Marauder partially for vanity reasons (the "look at me!" factor) and the squeaky groaning suspension-type sound contributes poorly to this image. With my 1st MM, the hood latch groan was so evident on hot days that people did look as I approached on the slightest bumpy streets (sounded like a big rusty old bed spring, but more hollow and metallic... and louder). MM#2 is beginning to drive me up the wall with its slightly different higher-pitched groan.

Consider how well the Marauder is insulated, sound-wise: if you hear it inside the car, imagine how loud it is OUTSIDE the car.

Well, my dad followed behind me on the freeway when I picked it up from Lidio's. He was in a Taurus with the window's closed. He said all he could hear on the way home was my exhaust. He didn't mention the squeeks and rattles. He had to turn up the radio. Mine is loud enough that if I had a radio, I may not be able to turn it up loud enough.

Anyway, as far as collectibles go, the only sure bet for a vehicle to be a high dollar collectible is if its highly desired now, then it will be in the future. Look at the guys paying top dollar for the muscle cars. They were kids growing up back when these vehicles came out. They fell in love with them back then but couldn't afford them. Now that they have the money, they can spend it. Since the MM isn't highly desireable now, people's taste will have to change. Supposedly, the first few years of the Corvette didn't sell well. But, now they are getting top dollar.

My personal belief is that the collectibles of the future will be the obvious highly desired short production runs such as the Mustang Cobra R's (mostly 93 and 95), Z06s, etc. But, other collectible vehicles will be the vehicles the kids admire now such as Z300s, Z350s, Skyline GTRs (R34s more than R32s), M3s etc. When these kids get their money, they'll want the vehicles they can't afford now.

TripleTransAm

02-28-2006, 10:16 AM

Well, my dad followed behind me on the freeway when I picked it up from Lidio's. He was in a Taurus with the window's closed. He said all he could hear on the way home was my exhaust. He didn't mention the squeeks and rattles. He had to turn up the radio. Mine is loud enough that if I had a radio, I may not be able to turn it up loud enough.

Precisely my point: the Marauder is (by fundamental chassis nature and by equipment nature) more insulated than would be a Mustang, especially a convertible. Also, your exhaust must be modified in some way to make it hard for someone in a car following you on the freeway to have difficulty listening to the radio... which is not the case for most Marauders (and definitely wouldn't make a difference in a street scenario with one's foot off the accelerator). Lastly, the stock Marauder's exhaust note is projected rearward, whereas my hood latch groans were evident from up front. Unfortunately, MM#2's noises are harder to isolate where they come from, and not easily reproducible "by hand" (as in, manually rocking the car) as was the case with MM#1.

I believe I couldn't handle a car that rattled so loud as to not be maskable with a radio, I'd probably launch it off a cliff in frustration. I thought my GTA was a rattle queen, but it's nowhere close to this stage, fortunately!

I think your example of the Corvette was quite interesting. I imagine the same thing could happen to the Marauder... IF Ford was to have continued the Marauder into a 'next generation' and did it right, there might have been a secondary interest in the earlier (2003-2004) Marauders that it might have boosted the used car prices somewhat. Or, if Ford shifts entirely away from "fun" cars, there might be a renewed interest in the latest performance offerings (the current Mustang, our last 4 door sports sedan, etc.).

marauder307

02-28-2006, 12:53 PM

I'd be more inclined to say 20 years (at least). I've been closely following the musclecar/collectible market since the mid 80s, and in particular the 70s Trans Ams (perhaps in subconscious anticipation of an eventual purchase of a '77/'78 model?). The REALLY desirable models would show signs of activity at just under 20 years, the run of the mill model would begin appreciating at 20 years, and the less desirable models just slightly longer.

I had developed this theory sometime in the mid 90s, and lo-and-behold I saw a big price jump in 1998 when it came to the 1977/1978 Trans Ams...
Add in the lame-duck reviews for the current generation and Mercury's (Ford's) own disinterest in the vehicle... that won't help collectibility. The modified cars help address some of the beefs in those lackluster reviews, but who's going to pay a premium for a modified used car? Again, look at the market history: the modded classics always lagged behind the unmolested originals until the supply ran out and market demand was forced to shift to whatever was left. But again, there's gotta be a base demand there to begin with.

I'll agree with that 20-year mark. That's the usual standard for the collectible market...one thing that might have driven the spike in F-body interest was that somewhere around that 1998-99 time frame was when word first got out that the F-bodies were going away for good. The public hue-and-cry was so bad that GM kinda pushed 'em along for a couple of extra years, but after the 2002 MY, that was it.

I myself have been a vintage vehicle enthusiast for quite a while, although I didn't start with cars; my big thing when I was but a lad was warbirds (for those of you not schooled in aviation, that's old warplanes---anything from WW 1 and up). The warbird craze really blew up big in the '80s---my teen years---and people were buying everything under the sun. The going price for a P-51 Mustang, in cruddy shape, dragged out of the "back 40" at Davis-Monthan's AMARC facility went from 10g all the way to the millions. You can't touch one of those airplanes now unless your last name is Cruise, Travolta, Ford (Harrison not Bill), Gates, or Trump. F4U Corsairs (my personal fave) are the same way. God help you if you want a B-17 or a B-24. Even an old L-19 "Bird Dog" Cessna is somewhere around the 100g-plus mark, provided you can get documentation that it was used in the military.

To get back to the cars: I eventually got over the vintage airplane thing---too unattainable---and as I got to the stage of life where a driver's license means everything and the idea of having my own car took on ultimate importance, I started looking around. Mopars were the first big thing I looked at, and in the 1988-91 time frame, the Mopar market went ballistic. I remember a 1971 440-SixPack droptop Barracuda went at one of the prominent auctions (B-J, Auburn, or Kruse) for $111,000---and that blew everybody's mind at the time. Now I hear that one sold recently for around a million.

I think a lot of people look at that price mark, then look at the Marauder, and go "hmmmm...I wonder...". This goes back to my comment about "betting on the come"; they're starting the speculation too early and they will---more than likely---lose their shirt because they're not being careful.

People have always wanted T/As, Camaros, Mustangs, Chargers, etc.; that market will never die. The big names will always command the big prices. Fringe vehicles (that's my term for 'em) like the vintage 300s, Marauders, and so on, will have a market too, but not as big. It's interesting to note that two vehicles that were considered total duds in their day---the Edsel and the Corvair---have actually got a significant cult following, and in so doing have driven up their prices too, although the bigger prices have only gone to the rarer vehicles such as the turbo Corvair Monza's.

Ah well...enough about that. TTA, to address your other question---nope, haven't checked the fender yet. Will do.

Warpath: I'm gonna go with TTA on this one; merely cranking the stereo simply begs the question and doesn't actually solve anything. Besides, I'm going deaf as it is...

Warpath

03-01-2006, 09:55 AM

The radio and exhaust response was tongue-in-cheek. My Cobra rattles like a baby toy and its really annoying. I still have fun driving it which outweighs the frustration from the rattles and squeeks by a large amount. So, I haven't done much to fix them.

marauder307

03-06-2006, 11:30 PM

Has anybody tried Bilsteins as replacement shocks/struts? If so, where did you buy them?

marauder307

04-03-2006, 10:41 PM

Enough.

The Hulk spent yet another weekend laid up for repairs; turned out to be partly lucky because the weather out here got so bad Friday that I wasn't able to make it to work anyway. (I took my fiancee's Freestyle "swimming" three times in as many miles...gave up and turned around for home. The rain out here has been brutal, intense, and LONG.)

I took the thing in to get the shocks replaced on all four corners and to get the FRPP differential girdle/cover regasketed. Later that afternoon 'round about closing time at the shop, I walked over to see what was going on and check on the progress.

The mechanic greeted me with the one line that every car owner dreads:

"Uh, sir,...I think you want to see this..."

That line ranks right up there with the ol' female-to-male line, "We have to talk." Anyway, the guy ushers me back to the rack, where the Hulk, looking rather forlorn, is up on the lift with all four wheels on the floor.

The mechanic explains to me, in rough-sounding Pidgin english, that they got the shocks on (Monroes from RockAuto.com) and they were in the process of fixing up the differential cover. And then he walked me around to the front passenger corner.

The end link for the front sway bar was just hanging there...top of it was connected, but the bottom looked rather disfigured. And broken.

My heart just about stopped. "Was that like that when you pulled the wheel off?"

"Yeah. What do you want us to do with it?"

"Can it be reattached somehow?"

"Already tried sir...the socket is too worn out, it kept slipping off the ball joint."

"Well, do you have any in stock?" And the conversation continued thusly.

Cutting to the chase: They didn't have any in stock, had to call the SVT Ford dealer. As the car sits now, that end link is still flopping around loose. I CAN report that the RockAuto.com Monroe components are a good buy and that the suspension almost feels like new (remember to get the Severe Service units for the front). It WOULD feel like new if I wasn't running around on a busted end link. There's some perceptible lateral movement from the front sway bar. It'll be roughly 3-4 days to get a replacement pair of endlinks drop-shipped from the mainland.

I numbly walked home; my fiancee was still out of town on a business trip so I had the house to myself. Which means I had time to think.

I give up on this damned car. Since getting it off the ship last September, I've poured nearly $2500 into repairs on this doggoned thing, a fact that stings so much worse because I know how it happened (the move), I just don't understand why. One of the primary reasons why I bought it was because I figured that the million PIs that had preceded it couldn't all be wrong and that it would be tough enough to stand up to the beating of being a daily driver without needing a ton of maintenance to keep it running. Evidently I've been proved wrong (and tragically so, in my opinion).

It will remain an enduring mystery with me as to which course was the real one:

1) Either the car was so fragilely built in the first place, and the government-sponsored move was enough to break it, or

2) The car was fine in the first place, and the government-sponsored gorillas that moved it abused it to the point of destruction.

I don't know. I have no answers here.

What I DO know is this: I can't keep doing this, folks. That's $2500 that I really need right now, and that I wish to God I had back. That amount would cover a large portion of the expenses for my upcoming wedding.

It is with all of the above thoughts in mind that I must say to all you, my fellow Marauder owners:

I'm sorry.

I went to the credit union Saturday morning, and got preapproval to go out and find a replacement. As soon as I've patched this broken-up monster back together, enough to pass muster at a trade-in....it's done. I don't really want to do it, but I'm not going to keep pouring money down the drain. I'm not having the same fun as the rest of you, doing mods and marveling at bettered performance; now I'm in the killer position of just barely trying to keep ahead of the breakage, and I'm losing ground.

There are no more Marauders out here; shoot, the L-M dealer on this island barely understood what mine was, never mind keeping any around. What few there are around here appear to have been snapped up for LEO duty. So...the replacement looks like it's probably going to be a Charger.

I'm sorry folks...there's something about this whole idea that feels downright sacreligous. But I just can't keep doing it. I feel even worse because I know that at least a small number of you really tried to help me out with this (tough as it was to do, from afar); I feel like I've let those folks down. To them, I can't apologize enough.

Still hoping for a last-minute miracle of some kind; maybe the Hulk will finally cut me a break after we get the endlinks redone. But it's been in the shop once a month for the last 4 months straight; this is nuts. Other folks would have given up before now, but I've been in this car for over 3 years now, and I'm not much of a quitter. But there does come a point in any endeavor where you have to ask yourself if it's really all worth it...

Bradley G

04-04-2006, 12:23 AM

If you want to keep it after you recover from the last turn.
Is the Marauder eligible for ESP warranty?
Just a thought.

marauder307

04-04-2006, 12:58 PM

If you want to keep it after you recover from the last turn.
Is the Marauder eligible for ESP warranty?
Just a thought.

I don't think so...ran out of base warranty about 4500 miles ago (the 3/36 one).

As I look over my previous post...at least one question occurs to me, one that some of you might be asking:

Why not go after the shipping company?

Tried it already. Their stance is "You didn't point any of these things out at the time of pickup, in full view of our shipping agent. Therefore, we deny your claim."

Admittedly, they've got a point: It would be really easy to take the car at pickup, go punch it into a power pole, and then go back and file a claim for damages against the company---if they didn't do things that way.

But suspension damage is not something that makes itself readily apparent; that kinda stuff can hide for awhile, particularly if you're like me and can only get the car serviced on a catch-as-catch-can basis, squeezing it in around a work schedule.

They really need to modify that policy...maybe put a two-month limit on it. Why two months? I dunno...just pulled it outta my a$$. Seems like a reasonable amount of time for someone to take their car after pickup (after a move like this), get it inspected top-to-bottom, fore and aft, and get a proper assessment on just what's broken.

Of course, none of this does anything to help my present situation tho...:depress: