What would you think if this throttle body fit the marauders? [Archive]

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2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 05:14 AM

This is from svtperformance and the mach1registry. Accufab has come out with there new throttle body for the 99-01 cobra and 03-04 mach1. Now the fit isn't the problem its just the linkage that would be the issue. I was thinking you could just flip the throttle body over and it should work. Here is the link to check it out.

http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46214

Todd

03-02-2006, 05:33 AM

Linkage looks like it is on the same side as our to me...

Or is it some optical illusion. The linkage is on the right side of the throttle body looking down the bore of it from the air cleaner side. Thats the way our cars are.

Of course the cobras throttle body point to the opposite side of the car but is still set up same as ours.

I will get one ordered and see if it works. Thanks for the find.

Big House

03-02-2006, 05:46 AM

Is there a real need for another Tb. How much improvement can one expect?

fastblackmerc

03-02-2006, 06:01 AM

2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 06:04 AM

I heard you will get better throttle response and on a bone stock motor gave results between 8-12rwhp. You power adder guys would notice a lot more if you still have the stock throttle body.

rayjay

03-02-2006, 08:20 AM

I would be very interested in this part if it fits the MM intake. If its not a direct bolt on because of the linkage being reversed, I wonder if Accufab would do a run of these to fit the MM if there was enough interest?

http://www.piecykdesigns.com/transfer/pictures/accufabTB.jpg

This is a real beautiful piece!

blackf0rk

03-02-2006, 08:49 AM

Too bad the intake covers all the beauty :(

2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 09:21 AM

Yea I was talking to birdman who has his email in the link. I dont know if they will make one exclusive to the marauder, but who knows if we generate enough interest. His info is accufab1@aol.com and his phone number at accufab (909) 930-1751.

magindat

03-02-2006, 09:30 AM

Is there a real need for another Tb. How much improvement can one expect?

My experience with ricers on this subject is:
Quicker throttle response
Low end (off the line) torque
Little more HP.

A larger TB is best used with easier breathing intake.

RR|Suki

03-02-2006, 09:55 AM

Big House

03-02-2006, 10:21 AM

Are there any hard numbers to substiantiate buy a new TB?

SergntMac

03-02-2006, 10:31 AM

Another 400 dollar mod producing no performance, and a headache to install, IMHO. Carry On...

2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 10:39 AM

In the description in the link they noticed 8-10 rwhp increase on a bone stock 01 cobra motor. Now would I like to see real dyno sheets, yes I would but this is coming straight from accufab. I am still waiting from the 99-01 cobra and 03-04 mach1 guys to buy it and get some proven dyno numbers.

rayjay

03-02-2006, 11:05 AM

FWIW, I emailed Accufab and Donna Mihovetz replied that the TB for the 03-04 Mach1 would fit the Marauder.

MarauderMarc

03-02-2006, 11:15 AM

Is it really 400$??? Seems a little pricey.

rayjay

03-02-2006, 11:31 AM

I found it on the net for $367 plus shipping. Thats not bad if it does what it claims.

http://www.coolblueperformance.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=771

SergntMac

03-02-2006, 11:44 AM

I found it on the net for $367 plus shipping. Thats not bad if it does what it claims. And, add another 300 bucks for a custom tune just to tweak out a few HPs in the high RPMs.

Yes, it's pretty, and being that pretty and delivering the performance suggested in this thread, I wonder why I don't own one?

Oh, now I remember...

2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 12:13 PM

For the people that want to get as much power out of the marauder and keep it N/A it would probably be a good buy. For the power adder people that hp number will be higher than numbers gained by staying N/A. I think the trilogy kit comes with a new throttle body but the other power adder guys might like it.

Todd

03-02-2006, 12:19 PM

Again, I make my point. (please correct me where I am wrong) Tell me where the throttle body is reversed from ours...????

Have you looked at your throttle body on your car????

The linkage is on the right side. The plugs are on the left side. Now I cant remember if our throttle cable wraps from underneith or from over the top but the linkage is on the same side.

And I for one dont mind paying a little for bling... Otherwise, why do you all spend tons of money of Zaino, and clay bars, and special sprays, wheel cleaners, polishes, etc..... None of that gives you any horsepower.... Its for the bling.

I would be very interested in this part if it fits the MM intake. If its not a direct bolt on because of the linkage being reversed, I wonder if Accufab would do a run of these to fit the MM if there was enough interest?

http://www.piecykdesigns.com/transfer/pictures/accufabTB.jpg

This is a real beautiful piece!

rayjay

03-02-2006, 12:32 PM

blackf0rk

03-02-2006, 12:35 PM

It appears that the one in the picture would fit, at least the connections would. And if accufab says it'll fit, it probably will.

MarauderMark

03-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Again there are few of the Trilogy guys using these tb.Been around here for awhile.

magindat

03-02-2006, 03:12 PM

Reading the info on their site I believe the claimed gains are for a stock motor. They did state that a tuned engine may require some tweaking to get the most benefit. The install itself sounds pretty simple, even with having to tweak the TPS. Todd if you get one of these keep us appraised. Its still winter here so I'm not messing around under the hood in the near future.

Other site info suggests other 'breathing' mods to benefit from the TB. I'm very interested. They make a WORLD of difference on a 1.6L Honda. I have the basic DR tune and am staying NA. I have done several power add mods. Each one, not much. All together, a fair amount. All these plus a run on the dyno... :D.

Any info would be great. I'm trying to do all these little things before I spend the 300+ on Dennis' dyno like Mac said.

fastblackmerc

03-02-2006, 03:19 PM

Again, I make my point. (please correct me where I am wrong) Tell me where the throttle body is reversed from ours...????

Have you looked at your throttle body on your car????

The linkage is on the right side. The plugs are on the left side. Now I cant remember if our throttle cable wraps from underneith or from over the top but the linkage is on the same side.

And I for one dont mind paying a little for bling... Otherwise, why do you all spend tons of money of Zaino, and clay bars, and special sprays, wheel cleaners, polishes, etc..... None of that gives you any horsepower.... Its for the bling.
Wouldn't it be better to go with a single blade TB? More CFM's??

2003CTMarauder

03-02-2006, 03:37 PM

I single blade I don't think would work becuase there is the bridge in the upper intake and the single blade would hit against it and the blades wouldnt open all the way. Trying to mill down the little bridge could mess up the IAC and in an extreme situation you could be idling at 4000 rpms. That is why this style throttle body was designed for the mach1.

Brutus

03-02-2006, 05:36 PM

From the link already posted:

Accufab reporting in

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cobrabrad turned me on to this thread. Let's talk about the 99-01 Cobra TB (also fit's the Mach 1). As many of you probably know, most of our TB's are single blade units. Unfortunately, a single blade unit won't work on the 99-01 Cobra because (as was pointed out above) the IAC port is in the way, and the center "bridge" would have needed to be removed, the car would have idled at about 4000 RPM, not a good idea. Removing the bridge on the 96-98 Cobra intake is not a problem as the IAC port is not disrupted.

Anyway, we learned alot while developing this dual-blade unit (took almost a year and 8 different versions, all tested on our flow bench). We found out that "the size of the hole", usually measured in MM) is not as important as the area IN FRONT of the blades. As someone above mentioned, it's not the size of the blades on the OEM TB that is the problem. The problem in airflow is the air seperation that takes place on the OEM unit, in front of the blades. This is what restricts the CFM, not the size of the blades. I'm not going to bore you with these details, especially not on a Monday, so you will just need to trust me a little in this area. I can just say that we flow test EVERBODIES throttle bodies, not just ours. We also dyno test them all, on Westech's engine or chassis dyno. If we can't show more HP than stock, we won't offer it (which is why we do not sell TB's for the 94-95 Mustangs). The new TB for the 99-01 Cobra has just been dyno tested, back to back with the OEM unit, and is worth about 9-10 more HP on a dead stock engine. Slightly more if you have increased initial airflow with a cold air kit, better filter, etc. This test will be in an upcoming MM&FF magazine since it was done by Richard Holdner. As most of you know, Accufab is down the street from Westech and we are on the dyno 3 to 4 days a week testing some **** thing or other. If you have questions you can email me anytime at accufab1@aol.com (accufab1@aol.com) or call me at Accufab, (909) 930-1751. Cheers.

MI2QWK4U

03-02-2006, 06:41 PM

Again there are few of the Trilogy guys using these tb.Been around here for awhile.

Yep Mark. We use the accufab single blade Throttle body. There were no installation issues that Mac alludes to. In my application it did require some tweaking on the tune, but overall it was a great mod. It delivered everything it advertised, not sure why Mac doesnt like it?. I cannot speak to how much it will help a NA car. I cant remember, it is either the Throttle Body application for the Lightning or Cobra, I think its the Lightning. Do you want pictures? On my Marauder it was good for 24.5 RWHP. Might be worth something for NA.

merc6

03-02-2006, 06:50 PM

why not get an actual unobstructed single plan oval TB?

DEFYANT

03-02-2006, 08:36 PM

Ahh yes. 24.5 more horsepower is all it should take to bring out the ghost.

I'll take one!

:lol:

MI2QWK4U

03-02-2006, 08:40 PM

Ahh yes. 24.5 more horsepower is all it should take to bring out the ghost.

I'll take one!

:lol:

Sorry I mentioned it Charlie, just reading the dyno sheet.

DEFYANT

03-02-2006, 08:48 PM

Sorry I mentioned it Charlie, just reading the dyno sheet.

I know. I'll add this to the list of mods to do when (if) I return to MI for Woodward and a dyno check up (Tune w/ options) at Lidios.

I would not add this with out a fresh tune.

MarauderMarc

03-02-2006, 11:54 PM

natedog1284

03-03-2006, 04:15 AM

I'm up for one! Keep us posted!

grampaws

03-03-2006, 04:30 AM

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/
389.00 CAD at SHM for canadian quiries..

2003CTMarauder

03-03-2006, 05:41 AM

Hey Nate by that list of mods your car sounds like a beast!

magindat

03-03-2006, 06:12 AM

Hey guys, I dont mean to hijack the thread, but I am down for one. I called this place and asked about a group buy of 10 or more. He said he would do it for 349.95 and FREE shipping. If anyone is interested let me know. If I have to start a new thread for it, let me know.

Start a new thread. At 400, I'm on the fence. At 349 free shipping...sold.

They (accufab) are saying 9-10 (RWHP) on bone stock dyno tested. That's about 3-4% to us.
On the Hondas I used to build, plug+timing+header+intake+TB = 106 > 143 for a total combined of about 40%+.

Given the same proportion we should go from 302 > 420 at the crank. We have programming to take care of timing, exhaust (you have headers), intakes. It shouldn't be that far off proportionally.

TB's don't do their thing unless you have unrestricted air coming in the front. Big filter and straight, clean path. They also don't realize potential unless you can get the exhaust out. You can only put in as much air as you can get out of the cylinder. Ricers benefit from building 'scavenging' exhausts. They suck the air out of the cylinders like an exhaust superchager. A good scavenging exhaust has the same affect as 3 PSI boost but with no moving parts. I digress, we have built ourselves good exhausts for the stated above purpose. Therefore, the TB has both things it needs to reach a good potential on our cars.

After those mods and a good tune, we should be running quite well for N/A's.

Let's do it.

magindat

03-03-2006, 06:13 AM

Nate's car would be an EXCELLENT candidate for a TB!!!!

AzMarauder

03-03-2006, 06:42 AM

. I think the trilogy kit comes with a new throttle body but the other power adder guys might like it.

Nope... reuses the stock TB.

SergntMac

03-03-2006, 07:36 AM

Yep Mark. We use the accufab single blade Throttle body. There were no installation issues that Mac alludes to. In my application it did require some tweaking on the tune, but overall it was a great mod. It delivered everything it advertised, not sure why Mac doesnt like it?. I cannot speak to how much it will help a NA car. I cant remember, it is either the Throttle Body application for the Lightning or Cobra, I think its the Lightning. Do you want pictures? On my Marauder it was good for 24.5 RWHP. Might be worth something for NA. I'm complimented that you mention my reservations, Dave, but confused by why you would care what I think.

I won't debate your 24 HP gain from an Accufab TB, other than to point out that you used a single blade on a S/C application. This is quite a different scenario from what is discussed here, different to the point of "apples to oranges".

Likewise confusing is making any comparasion of the '99-'01 Cobra performance data to our MMs, as others do ^ there. We have a "Cobra-like" engine, but it's not a Cobra engine. The Marauder uses 24 Lb injectors stock, with a 52cc combustion chamber. There are a few other differences that challenge this comparasion, but that's enough for now. Don't forget, a dyno tune will be necessary to show any gains, and that should be figured in the cost of the mod.

Y'all are in such heat over this mod, y'all are willing to ignore opinions of credible members here.

The single blade TB's are worth 5-8 at the wheels typically, the bigger payoff is in throttle responsiveness. Been there, done that, wasn't impressed enough to do it twice. That being said, the polished TB's DO have a nice bling factor which must enter into the equation...

Yep. It will bolt right up to the Trilogy but for centrifugal or NA cars the OEM intake manifold has to have some machining done and potential problems and/or mods with the idle air bypass functions have to be worked out.

IMHO, this mod doesn't cut it in the performance "bang for the buck" ratio, but I agree, it sure is pretty. That alone may be worth it, but I hate to see performance pumped up when it's not going to be there. We have 57mm TB, the Accufab Mach I is a 60mm, and the BBK is a 62. Is 6mm of more venturi going to turn the Marauder into a rocket? I don't think so. BTW, the intake port the TB mounts to, is 59mm ID, go figure.

Y'all need to read up here, maybe learn a bit more about the Marauder engine too?

http://www.accufabracing.com/article%202.htm

MI2QWK4U

03-03-2006, 08:08 AM

Mac, Im not looking to start a fight here!
What I meant by Cobra or Lightning application is that there is an available Throttle Body that works on our car, its what I have, I just dont know if it is the one they use on the Cobra or Lightning, Lid would know, I just dont remember.

There were a few reasons I went with the Accufab. First, like Logan Mentioned, it is polished nicely like my air intake on my Trilogy kit. Secondly, it improved throttle response off the line. The HP increase was a nice side effect.

I will say up front that I dont know what this will do for a NA car, so I wont talk about something like that.

SergntMac

03-03-2006, 08:16 AM

Nevermind...

magindat

03-03-2006, 08:44 AM

I'm complimented that you mention my reservations, Dave, but confused by why you would care what I think.

I won't debate your 24 HP gain from an Accufab TB, other than to point out that you used a single blade on a S/C application. This is quite a different scenario from what is discussed here, different to the point of "apples to oranges".

Likewise confusing is making any comparasion of the '99-'01 Cobra performance data to our MMs, as others do ^ there. We have a "Cobra-like" engine, but it's not a Cobra engine. The Marauder uses 24 Lb injectors stock, with a 52cc combustion chamber. There are a few other differences that challenge this comparasion, but that's enough for now. Don't forget, a dyno tune will be necessary to show any gains, and that should be figured in the cost of the mod.

Y'all are in such heat over this mod, y'all are willing to ignore opinions of credible members here.

IMHO, this mod doesn't cut it in the performance "bang for the buck" ratio, but I agree, it sure is pretty. That alone may be worth it, but I hate to see performance pumped up when it's not going to be there. We have 57mm TB, the Accufab Mach I is a 60mm, and the BBK is a 62. Is 6mm of more venturi going to turn the Marauder into a rocket? I don't think so. BTW, the intake port the TB mounts to, is 59mm ID, go figure.

Y'all need to read up here, maybe learn a bit more about the Marauder engine too?

http://www.accufabracing.com/article%202.htm

With all due respect, Mac. I have taken very much of your advice to heart and have applied it to my own car.
I realize that when I extrapolate my ricer engine experience to V8, there is a stretch. However, moving air smoothly and efficienly is just that, no matter what car it is.
I know well that perf gains will only be seen with a tune as well as other 'breathing mods'. I see this TB as part of an overall package and evaluate the potential gains on the package.
I read the accufab tech section even before you posted it. It also refers to the notion that TB bore numbers may not reflect flow in CFM. Smoothness, shape, turns, bumps, butterfly shaft and other things change flow carachtaristics no matter what the bore.
For us on the NA side, we are looking for things like throttle response and low-end torque that this part may offer. As with all mods, wow factor is a factor.
I agree, this thing ain't gonna do much on an otherwise stock motor. It should be considered as part of a breathing package. Again, based on previous experience with MUCH SMALLER engines, a breathing package makes an appreciable amount of difference.
I invite your comments as I evaluate this mod for my own car. I do, however feel that when comapring experience, a Cobra motor is a closer comparison than what I carry which is ricer motors!!!!
This ain't fight pickin, just healthy discussion, so I can learn.
Thanx, Mac.

magindat

03-03-2006, 08:47 AM

An important afterthought....
Why would one 'port and polish' heads? Does that not serve a similar thought process? Smoother, and a tiny bit more area? Less air friction, less turbulence?

SergntMac

03-03-2006, 09:28 AM

magindat

03-03-2006, 09:38 AM

I'm not picking a fight, and how that got started is stupid. In another thread it's mentioned as "negative thoughts". WTF? It'not negative, just honest.

Gents...I'm just telling the other side of the story, it's an open discussion is it not?

Please...Go buy your TBs and enjoy them.

Actually, as you do, I am thinking logically and using previous experience. I guess at the end of the day I'm asking "Is the above train of thought on-target or completely off-base?"

Thanx
Rich

Warpath

03-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Someone over at corral.net is going to test a stock TB and this TB back-to-back on a dyno at the same time to verify Accufab's claim. So, with those results, you will be able to see if it does anything on a 99 Cobra NA engine.

I agree with Mac though. Installing this part alone with the necessary tune will run about $600 or so. That's really steep for 10 hp IMO. I would consider getting one and also install a power pipe and some other goodies requiring a retune so that the tuning cost is not as much of an impact.

PDMarauder

03-03-2006, 12:25 PM

Jumping back to the, is it good or bad mod.....I come from the 5.0 Mustang world for several years. i know that if you have a relatively stock motor and go toss a 70mm TB on the car, your not gonna feel a thing and you will actually hurt low end performance by decreasing velocity. we always went with the big to small factor in the intake tract. larger mass air to slightly smaller TB to increase velocity.

I will say now that yes, i was a 5.0 guy and have not much experience on the modular motors. I know they react differently and such to certain mods, etc. but overall general concept is the same. Also not familar with Twin Throttle Bodies. is each side 60mm?

On the other hand, what Imagindat is saying about smoothing airflow is true as well, but not if you goo too large. You may free up a little more and it may compliment future mods.

To me twin 57mm seems like a pretty decent size, and i dunno if i would break the bank for the TB. Maybe on the 5.0s i would do it considering there is such a large and cheap aftermarket, a TB would run you like 150, any size. lol thats another thing I am getting used to with the marauder, rarity and cost of parts. :mad2:

conclusion, i think it comes down to personal choice if you wanna shell out 350+ beans.

magindat

03-03-2006, 12:30 PM

This is an email to and from Accufab:

Dear Sir,
I didn't see you name listed in your post on MM.net. My apologies for not using your name.

I am very interested in the Accufab TB for 03MM. I have, in the past used various TB on small Honda motors (1.6L ) with great success. I intend to keep my MM NA. As such, I have done such things as CAI, full custom 2.5" (up from 2.25") exhaust, and intake spacer. I also have an off-the-shelf SCT tune for the moment.

I would like to complete the 'breathing' mods and then have the tune re-programmed ONCE to get the most out of the PACKAGE.

I see your test of 9-10 RWHP for the new TB. Given the above mods, what is your seat-of-the-pants best guestimate with the listed improved brathing? I am averaging about 1HP/$10 at this point (which is incredibly good IMO). Given 400 for the TB, I am not expecting 40 HP, but I am curious of your estimate given the all-around better breathing. Further, I am quite aware this entire package will not reach full potential 'till tuned. I will gladly return B4 and after numbers should I use AFTB.

Thanx inadvance for your time. Also, thanx for taking the time to post on MM.net!

Sincerely
Rich W.
aka magindat

and the reply:

I wouldn't expect more than 5hp because the lower manifold is too restrictive. It will have better throttle response.

And there you have it. Bling factor and seat-o-the-pants factor.

SergntMac

03-03-2006, 02:41 PM

Oops...I posted in the other thread. Sorry.

natedog1284

03-03-2006, 04:59 PM

Nate's car would be an EXCELLENT candidate for a TB!!!!
LOL well now I just have to go buy one! :rolleyes:
My car needs to get tuned before the summer anyway, so I was thinking about just buying this and reporting the before and after experience before I go to the dyno; I think my car is about as efficent as it can get right now, as far as breathing goes, with exception to a ported intake. But in lieu of spending $1200 or so on a new intake, I think I'll just add that to the forced induction fund ;)

2003CTMarauder

03-03-2006, 09:39 PM

LOL well now I just have to go buy one! :rolleyes:
My car needs to get tuned before the summer anyway, so I was thinking about just buying this and reporting the before and after experience before I go to the dyno; I think my car is about as efficent as it can get right now, as far as breathing goes, with exception to a ported intake. But in lieu of spending $1200 or so on a new intake, I think I'll just add that to the forced induction fund ;)

Now Nate the best thing to do is to save your money and pay off your car first before anymore modding. Yeah Right:beer:

MI2QWK4U

03-04-2006, 01:10 PM

Finally got a chance to post the pics, this is the single blade Accufab Throttle Body for the 03-04 Cobra. If you wanted to go this route, contact Lidio, because they sell the TB along with a elbow and tube you cant use on the Marauder, they wont sell the TB alone to just anyone, but Lidio is able to get them for a little cheaper with out the stuff you dont need. This is probably the best bet for Trilogy cars.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/2/101_2300a.jpg
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/2/101_2299a.jpg
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/2/101_2298a.jpg
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/5/2/101_2297a.jpg