A note about Cold Air Intakes

[StevenJ]

You know, the word cold in Cold Air Intake really does mean something? Just an observation. A lot of people say concical intakes, like the K&N kit I have, do not add any power to a car and just sit there and look pretty. Others claim they had huge gains of power under throttle. Well after owning the K&N CAI kit since Novembor I have formed an opinion. Then K&N CAI is useless in temperatures 65 degrees and warmer and has absolutely no positive affect on performance. On the other hand, when it is colder than 65, perferably around 53 degrees Farenhiet, it adds a very noticeable kick. It's true though and I have the time slips to prove it. In January, I went to Moroso and scored a 14.65 at 96 mph with a reaction time of .200 in low 60 degree weather. I went back just recently in March in low 70 degree weather and I had the same .200 reaction time but only managed a 14.826 time at 95 mph. Same mods as back in January, though rear tires were a bit more worn when I went in March when compared to late January so that could be a factor too. So the CAI does work, but only in chilly weather. Just thought I should post this.

[MarauderMarc]

You know, the word cold in Cold Air Intake really does mean something? Just an observation. A lot of people say concical intakes, like the K&N kit I have, do not add any power to a car and just sit there and look pretty. Others claim they had huge gains of power under throttle. Well after owning the K&N CAI kit since Novembor I have formed an opinion. Then K&N CAI is useless in temperatures 65 degrees and warmer and has absolutely no positive affect on performance. On the other hand, when it is colder than 65, perferably around 53 degrees Farenhiet, it adds a very noticeable kick. It's true though and I have the time slips to prove it. In January, I went to Moroso and scored a 14.65 at 96 mph with a reaction time of .200 in low 60 degree weather. I went back just recently in March in low 70 degree weather and I had the same .200 reaction time but only managed a 14.826 time at 95 mph. Same mods as back in January, though rear tires were a bit more worn when I went in March when compared to late January so that could be a factor too. So the CAI does work, but only in chilly weather. Just thought I should post this.


With the right tune, youll achieve at least 13 rwhp at almost all times. You need a personal PROFESSIONAL dyno tune to get the most out of it.

[Mike M]

I agree they work but your experiment would be more exact if you took off the kit and did back to back runs. All cars run better the colder the ambient temp is regardless if it has a cold air kit ot not.

[O's Fan Rich]

I am NOT getting into this again....

[Mad4Macs]

I am NOT getting into this again....

Chicken!
:lol:

[Smokie]

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. This INFORMATION (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14370) is old and and my car was N/A, but it is a direct factual no BS; before/after of a CAI. Same day, same dyno, same temps. The only variable is the CAI, nothing else.

If you take the time to examine the dyno chart provided please ignore peak numbers, they are not that relevant, look at what happens to the torque between 2500 and 4000 rpms. Torque is what pushes your car.:)

[mpearce]

When I did my K&N, I did it on a dyno. I did back to back to back to back dyno runs over 80 degrees, probably 5 pulls in all. It consistently added at least (and no less than) 7rwhp, and 10rwtq to the wheels on every single pull compared to all my stock pulls before that.

Thanks,

-Mat

[duhtroll]

what about the K&N aircharger - anyone test that one?

[Blackmobile]

Just face the facts,
When the temp is colder the paint on the car isn't as sticky,
Thus the car slips through the air faster when in cool weather. :rolleyes:

[Cobra25]

Just face the facts,
When the temp is colder the paint on the car isn't as sticky,
Thus the car slips through the air faster when in cool weather. :rolleyes: Does that mean if you use a slicker wax it will go even faster in cold weather? :dunno:

[MarauderMarc]

Does that mean if you use a slicker wax it will go even faster in cold weather? :dunno:


Weirdo! :D

[Cobra25]

Weirdo! :D Pin Head! :shake:

[rayjay]

I am NOT getting into this again....
Yep, left it alone when I saw it 0230hrs...

[jstevens]

I bought it for the sound.

[RF Overlord]

I have the PHP airbox (from Dennis) and it's pretty well sealed all around except for the front, which faces the opening in the radiator support where the stock airbox draws its air from. So I guess the PHP unit does qualify as a "cold air" intake. I agree that simply replacing the stock airbox with a conical filter will draw hot air from the engine compartment and will not be as effective.

[natedog1284]

Does that mean if you use a slicker wax it will go even faster in cold weather? :dunno:

Actually, as far as planes go, yes, it can make a difference. The smoother the airstream surface, the faster air can flow over it, so subsequently the better the gas-mileage and overall speed. But as far as our modern land-yachts go? I kinda dont think you'll notice a difference....:rolleyes:

But wax isn't about gas mileage, it's about making badass cars looking even more baddass! :beer:

[mpearce]

what about the K&N aircharger - anyone test that one?

My dyno test was on the K&N Cold Air Intake Kit.

Are you talking about the Cold Air Kit? Or the "wrap" that they sell to go around the conical filter? I don't use a wrap. No need to. It's not a daily driver, I don't drive in the rain. My MM is strictly a toy. Thus, no need for a wrap IMO. The sound improvement is nice as well.

-Mat

[Bradley G]

I have documented(with Rider90s' help) slighly larger gains from The JLT kit.
Thought I do think the fit and finish is nicer with the K&N.
The sound is definatly a factor under hard throttle.
I am not w***** either, I don't see a big risk.:D

[Rider90]

I have documented(with Rider90s' help) slighly larger gains from The JLT kit.
Thought I do think the fit and finish is nicer with the K&N.
The sound is definatly a factor under hard throttle.
I am not w***** either, I don't see a big risk.:D
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15385

Image links are broken, I can dig them up if anyone wants them.

[metroplex]

You can't get a true CAI on a Panther unless the air intake/snorkle is isolated from heat sources.

A major heat source would be the upper radiator hose that radiates the upper air box (or the air around the cone filter), heating up the air slightly as it goes through the IAT.

[Marauder2005]

You can't get a true CAI on a Panther unless the air intake/snorkle is isolated from heat sources.

A major heat source would be the upper radiator hose that radiates the upper air box (or the air around the cone filter), heating up the air slightly as it goes through the IAT.


God forbid you have somthing positive to say around here for once. :rolleyes:

Either way, there are HP gains no matter witch way you slice it...

[metroplex]

God forbid you have somthing positive to say around here for once. :rolleyes: Either way, there are HP gains no matter witch way you slice it...

Yes, when the IAT no longer detects a high enough temperature reading... On factory programming timing is pulled when the IAT is too high. I can feel the upper airbox lid heat up in the winter due to the heat coming from the upper radiator hose. The hot lid will radiate the air going to the MAF/IAT. The Mustangs don't suffer as much because their air intakes are on the opposite side. Now, if you are constantly cruising at a high speed (highway driving) this is a non-issue.

I just find it confusing that some vendors would label a product as a "cold air intake" when its basically a cone filter exposed to the engine compartment that sucks in air heated by the exhaust manifolds, radiator, and upper radiator hose. :rasta:

[Smokie]

Yes, when the IAT no longer detects a high enough temperature reading... On factory programming timing is pulled when the IAT is too high. I can feel the upper airbox lid heat up in the winter due to the heat coming from the upper radiator hose. The hot lid will radiate the air going to the MAF/IAT. The Mustangs don't suffer as much because their air intakes are on the opposite side. Now, if you are constantly cruising at a high speed (highway driving) this is a non-issue.

I just find it confusing that some vendors would label a product as a "cold air intake" when its basically a cone filter exposed to the engine compartment that sucks in air heated by the exhaust manifolds, radiator, and upper radiator hose. :rasta:

PHP AIRFILTER BOX results, same day, same dyno, same temps, same prep, only difference is PHP AIRFILTER BOX.

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49 75&d=1102464586

Look at what it did to the torque starting at 2500 rpm's, at 3600 rpm's an extra 25 rwft/lb; if you feel that is a waste of $250.....oke doke....:D

[metroplex]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49 75&d=1102464586

You seemed to have leaned out significantly (compared to the first run) during the 2nd run which can explain the gain in power output. Nonetheless, without more consistent AFR figures for both runs, your comparison is meaningless.

In addition, I never said they were a waste of money. It's just that a cold air intake is hardly a cold air intake when there are 2 major heat sources within the vicinity of the actual intake area: upper radiator hose and LH exhaust manifold. What most CAI kits do is "lean" out the AFR w/o a proper dynotune. The airbox and MAF are calibrated as a whole unit. When you bore holes into the lower airbox, you skew the air transfer function. Jerry W. basically yelled at me when I asked if I could drill a larger drain hole in case water got into the MM airbox. For most of the CAI owners that drive on the highway, the CAI works very nicely since there is a lot of airflow in the engine compartment. Now if you do a lot of stop and go driving during the summer, you should monitor your IAT and take a look at the temperature readings.

[Marauder2005]

http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49 75&d=1102464586

You seemed to have leaned out significantly (compared to the first run) during the 2nd run which can explain the gain in power output. Nonetheless, without more consistent AFR figures for both runs, your comparison is meaningless.

In addition, I never said they were a waste of money. It's just that a cold air intake is hardly a cold air intake when there are 2 major heat sources within the vicinity of the actual intake area: upper radiator hose and LH exhaust manifold. What most CAI kits do is "lean" out the AFR w/o a proper dynotune. The airbox and MAF are calibrated as a whole unit. When you bore holes into the lower airbox, you skew the air transfer function. Jerry W. basically yelled at me when I asked if I could drill a larger drain hole in case water got into the MM airbox. For most of the CAI owners that drive on the highway, the CAI works very nicely since there is a lot of airflow in the engine compartment. Now if you do a lot of stop and go driving during the summer, you should monitor your IAT and take a look at the temperature readings.


:rolleyes: :shake:

[SergntMac]

To me, this is an old and tired topic, we have been through this before. However, it's also nice to see more thinking on it. A few years back, I asked this question. Let's take one more peek?

What's more important? Cold air, or, more air?

I agree with Metroplex that this mod has been mis-named. Only the stock air box serves to provide as much cold air as possible, but it has a bottleneck to deal with at the core support. With this limitation in place, nothing you do will improve air flow. But, it will be fresh cold air, colder than the engine bay that is. Nonetheless, it's still the best induction path to come out of Ford, therefore, the gains from a mod to it will be small, and you have to look at the other side of the coin for more props. More air.

I've had a chance to examine first hand and install both the JLT kit and the PHP kit. Only the PHP kit aims to maximize both cold air, and more air. The JLT does not. Where the JLT rests once installed, it collects only engine bay air, which is heated air. You get lots of air from both, but only one works to keep it as cool as possible.

More air without a retune means leaner AFR, which we see on Javier's dyno report. However, leaner AFR mixtures are also a two sided coin. Leaner will produce more power, but leaner flirts with detonation. Javier is correct to point out that he gain considerable power from his PHP install, we can see that. But we need to think about why.

Remember folks, most of us drive our Marauders daily, and in changing weather, and I believe that running a lean tune for power will be problematic sometime in the future, guaranteed.

None of these kist are really "cold air" kits, but the best of the bunch is the PHP, IMHO. Couple that with a Metco or Reinhart bellows, and you have the best combination you can get for a Marauder this side of supercharging. Tune for it's best properties and leave a little wiggle room, and you should expect a fair "bang for the buck" ratio. That said, no two Marauders, or, induction kits will be alike. "Your results may vary".

[Smokie]

You seemed to have leaned out significantly (compared to the first run) during the 2nd run which can explain the gain in power output. Nonetheless, without more consistent AFR figures for both runs, your comparison is meaningless.

In addition, I never said they were a waste of money. It's just that a cold air intake is hardly a cold air intake when there are 2 major heat sources within the vicinity of the actual intake area: upper radiator hose and LH exhaust manifold. What most CAI kits do is "lean" out the AFR w/o a proper dynotune. The airbox and MAF are calibrated as a whole unit. When you bore holes into the lower airbox, you skew the air transfer function. Jerry W. basically yelled at me when I asked if I could drill a larger drain hole in case water got into the MM airbox. For most of the CAI owners that drive on the highway, the CAI works very nicely since there is a lot of airflow in the engine compartment. Now if you do a lot of stop and go driving during the summer, you should monitor your IAT and take a look at the temperature readings.

All you had to go by is one picture and a link I provided with far more detailed information. The reason you see a pig rich A/F for the before is because the dyno operator correctly merged the before/after power readings BUT he incorrectly merged the A/F results, so what you see for the BEFORE A/F ratio is what happened on the first dyno pull AFTER installing airbox, NOT the results front the first (before) dyno...by the way it was 13.2 at WOT straight across.

I arrived with a A/F ratio of 13.2 at the tailpipe and left with 13.2 at the tailpipe, in between there were several runs to CORRECT a TOO RICH condition caused by the airbox, I left with the exact A/F ratio I arrived with and the extra power shown in the picture of the merged first and last run.

It took 3 runs to get my car back to correct (original) A/F ratio, by the way I was making far more power when my A/F ratio was 13.8 but it was taken down to 13.2 for safety...if anything my car had no time to cool down and the final AFTER power readings were after 3 back to back dyno runs.....so my car was plenty hot on it's last run.....and I call it an Airbox not a CAI.:D

PS: My A/F ratio was being monitored at two places, tailpipe and WIDEBAND at the bung right after CAT. The wideband gives you a spiky chart, the tailpipe far more serene looking, wish dyno operator had merged correct A/F ratios and used the tailpipe results....end of story.

[Marauder2005]

To me, this is an old and tired topic, we have been through this before. However, it's also nice to see more thinking on it. A few years back, I asked this question. Let's take one more peek?

What's more important? Cold air, or, more air?

I agree with Metroplex that this mod has been mis-named. Only the stock air box serves to provide as much cold air as possible, but it has a bottleneck to deal with at the core support. With this limitation in place, nothing you do will improve air flow. But, it will be fresh cold air, colder than the engine bay that is. Nonetheless, it's still the best induction path to come out of Ford, therefore, the gains from a mod to it will be small, and you have to look at the other side of the coin for more props. More air.

I've had a chance to examine first hand and install both the JLT kit and the PHP kit. Only the PHP kit aims to maximize both cold air, and more air. The JLT does not. Where the JLT rests once installed, it collects only engine bay air, which is heated air. You get lots of air from both, but only one works to keep it as cool as possible.

More air without a retune means leaner AFR, which we see on Javier's dyno report. However, leaner AFR mixtures are also a two sided coin. Leaner will produce more power, but leaner flirts with detonation. Javier is correct to point out that he gain considerable power from his PHP install, we can see that. But we need to think about why.

Remember folks, most of us drive our Marauders daily, and in changing weather, and I believe that running a lean tune for power will be problematic sometime in the future, guaranteed.

None of these kist are really "cold air" kits, but the best of the bunch is the PHP, IMHO. Couple that with a Metco or Reinhart bellows, and you have the best combination you can get for a Marauder this side of supercharging. Tune for it's best properties and leave a little wiggle room, and you should expect a fair "bang for the buck" ratio. That said, no two Marauders, or, induction kits will be alike. "Your results may vary".

Well put 'Mac' and I can agree with that :)

I also agree w/ Metro that 'CAI' might not be the best name for it

as well.

[StevenJ]

Speaking of which, would it really be a big deal if I ran the car with the K&N concical kit, which I have, without a retune for the a/f ratio? Lido said it shouldn't matter for a rather stock Marauder that doesn't have a supercharger. Also, it may of been more than just temperature. Turns out my filter was really dirty and I just recently bought the K&N reoiling kit and cleaned the sucker. Sure was annoying to do but wasn't all that hard.

[Master]

Incorrectly merged the AFR? I don't get it. The scale is constant, so they should be reading to the same scale. Also, they aren't "Merged" by the software as such, which to me makes it sound like someone is overlaying, and thus, yes, could place one graph out of range. When two runs are loaded into the runviewer, they are put on the same scale by the software. Maybe you could define "Merged" for me. After about ten thousand dynoruns (maybe an exageration), I haven't had a "Merge" problem yet where the AFR for two runs were out of sync.
Do you have the dynojet run files? If so, we could load them into WinPep and have a look.
Sorry to sound like a PITA, but it sounds odd.
The other thing I was wondering about iis the computer. If you do back to back runs wherein the CAI is added, would not the computer take a few minutes to re-adjust the AFR? Totally ignorant on this point though, so would like to be educated.
Thanks,
DSF

[GodOSpeed]

I must be the only one who noticed vastly improved throttle response from this mod. That alone was worth the $. Not to mention how the cabin filling WHOOOP complements the singing of the dual exaust.

[blackf0rk]

With CAI's you're generally not getting cooler/colder air - at least not by much compared to a FWI (Fender Well Intake). Most gains that come with a CAI are usually associated with it being less restrictive over the stock intake.

Many individuals on my Impala forums prefer the FWI over the CAI since the air going into the intake is actually cooler. And I have personally proved it when my friends diagnostic port hookup reading intake temps.

Comparitivly, with a CAI, you're still sucking in much of the hot engine bay ambient air (even with a shield); but with a FWI you're sucking it out of the fender where the ambient tempatures are extremely cooler than the engine bay temps.