could a 300a be given t/c?

[the fat bastid]

de-contenting pisses me off to no end.
it is like they are saying "look! new stuff! haha loser just kidding!"

could a 300a be given t/c in some way?
i imagine that its all computer controled and the physical hardware couldnt be too big....but i could be wrong. with most options on cars that you dont get all the wiring is there, just nothing plugged into it at the very end.

not that i have any idea what i'm talking about. it could be impossible.

what about the heated seated too?

order a pair from the dealer for $9000 and slap them into a 300a?

on the same token, could you add the missing pieces to a 300b? that would most likely be easier..

the reason i ask is because my local lm dealer has a 300a thats been there since day one. the rotors are starting to rust and its covered in dust. it could be a sweet deal but i want t/c.

[SergntMac]

Well, the T/C wiring is there, in fact it's plugged into a socket on the rear of the dot matrix dash panel. May be worth an experiment with a switch, know anyone with T/C? Pop off their dot matrix trim and plug in, see what happens.

[the fat bastid]

point validated! yes!

i'm not insane! go me!
:rock:

[RF Overlord]

fat:

I'm not so sure it's that simple...whichever module runs the ABS would have to have the TC programming in it, at the very least...perhaps our highly esteemed friend (the one with a 5-letter name beginning with "B"), may be able to offer some insight on how TC is grafted into the system...?

[the fat bastid]

hey man, i was just happy that its a valid point instead of getting a response like this:

"jesus christ boy! you have any idea what that means??? human sacarfice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! all cause you wanted t/c in a 300a!"


now if its acutally fesible....well thats another thing...

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by the fat bastid

"jesus christ boy! human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!

Well, actually I WAS gonna say that, but I thought Logan's bad-word filter would take out the "dogs and cats living together" part...

:lol:

[Vince Gortner]

Heated seats are an easy aftermarket addition. Not real expensive either. Maybe $300-450?

Go 300a. T/c is a pain in the butt even in the snow. Sometimes a little wheelspin is a good thing. I personally like wheelspin a lot on dry pavement, and I didn't think the MM was really too bad in the snow.

I've driven CVPIs in the snow all day long and I could not beleive how much better the MM handled snow over the CVPI due mainly, in my opinion, to having a posi rear end. Even with wider tires.

But please forge ahead with t/c if that makes you happy.

[RCSignals]

Vince, Traction loc is an available option on CVPIs. Tell whoever orders your cars to get it next time

[jgc61sr2002]

Vince - Heated seats on the MM are less than $300.00 and the cost of traction control is probably the reason the CVPI doesn't have it. The window sticker on my 2000 GM stated $775.00 for ABS and Traction Control. John

[UncleLar]

I hate traction control,I've got it in the Cougar and anytime I want to mix it up a little I have to turn it off. I don't even use it here in the winter in snow,if you get stuck you'll never get out with the traction control activated. IMHO it's a PITA.

[RCSignals]

Actually traction control is an option for the cvpi as well. It's about $175 retail pricing as an option.

As for adding TC. All the wiring seems to be there. Looks like all one may have to do is add the relays and fuses, and perhaps change the chip module at the ABS controller. Perhaps an ECU upgrade as well.
Maybe a technician or someone from Ford will chime in

[the fat bastid]

thanks for all the info. now i'm seriously considering that car. it also has 400 miles on so it should be dirt cheap....assuming dirt still costs about $25,000.

[looking97233]

Fuse, relay, and switch wiring are present. All that is needed is the software for the abs module and the pcm. A burn of the abs module and the pcm, to a 300b model "should" do it. All the hardware that is needed is the little trim piece and the switch.

[TAF]

post deleted...I got confused (I know...you're NOT surprised)

[RF Overlord]

Originally posted by looking97233
Fuse, relay, and switch wiring are present. All that is needed is the software for the abs module and the pcm. A burn of the abs module and the pcm, to a 300b model "should" do it. All the hardware that is needed is the little trim piece and the switch.

Since Ford has had Traction Control for over 10 years, if all that's required is the right programming in the ABS module and PCM, why wasn't it installed in the 300A in the first place?

[jgc61sr2002]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Since Ford has had Traction Control for over 10 years, if all that's required is the right programming in the ABS module and PCM, why wasn't it installed in the 300A is the first place? RF Good Question. Knowing FMC probably $'s. John

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

if the wiring for the T/C is present on the 300A, then would the heated seats wiring Also be present? I know this has been brought up before, but never found an answer. I am thinking about adding heated seats for next winter, and if the wiring is there, ill set it up like a stock 300B. if the wirings not there, i think ill go with the set up bigdogjim has on his car. BTW bigdog, do u ever have any problems with the aftermarket heated seats?
Thanks in advanced

-Tony

[jgc61sr2002]

The only complaint that BigDog had was" the location of the switch". On the 300B its on the door trim panel. John

[the fat bastid]

why wasn't it installed in the 300A in the first place?

jesus christ man! do have any idea how much those little plastic switches cost?!?!?!

tc switch+fuel door release switch = bankrupt

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
Since Ford has had Traction Control for over 10 years, if all that's required is the right programming in the ABS module and PCM, why wasn't it installed in the 300A in the first place?

From what I heard, it had to do with the software programming to make up for the different size front and rear tires.

who really knows?

[looking97233]

Actually, it should work without the switch. You just would not be able to turn it off. If somebody who has one with tc will pm me thier pcm software code, found on a sticker on the pcm. I will see if I can get my buddy, to burn my pcm to that program and see if it works. If it does, buy th switch. If not, I'll have him put back the origional program.

[Macon Marauder]

I dunno guys. When the T/C went out on the wife's Windstar last year, the local Ford dealer rattled off a whole laundry list of stuff that needed to be replaced. Expensive stuff, too.

Yes, ABS is involved, and it's all controlled by computer, but there may be more to it than that...

[duhtroll]

OK, now I'm curious. After shpping around alot, I see TONS of A models sitting around collecting dust and very few "B"s. I am in IA where sometimes I get to slide to work just like anywhere else in the midwest.

I was SURE I wanted TC on this new car, but if I can save $3K by buying a 300A off the lot somewhere (was quoted $27.5K today on an A) it might be worth it, especially if this can be done.

A case of their favorite beer to the person who figures out that this can be done, how to do it, and how much it will cost me!!

Thanks all,
-A

[SheboyganGuy]

I'm bumping this thread to see if anyone has come up with something on this... Before I bought my 300A, I had the dealer do a search to see if he could come up with one that had t/c... he didn't find one. If t/c could be added, I would probably go for it...

[mtnh]

The ABS computer is different, not just PCM calibration, for traction control, for starters, at least.

[Brian]

Lots of parts changed when the TC was added. Incomplete list includes:
* ABS Hydraulic Control Unit different than ABS/TC Hydraulic Control unit
* ABS electronic controller (mounted on HCU) different than ABS/TC
* Brake tube bundle had some changes (not sure what is different)
* Wiring in IP for switch. Despite claims above that the wiring is there on the early units, I do not believe that to be the case.
* MAYBE the wiring to the PCM for the TC to tell the PCM when to truncate torque. I'm not sure if the network connection for that communication was there at the beginning, or only added when the TC was introduced. The PCM software hooks to handle the torque truncation was there from the beginning, but I'm just not sure if the wiring for the commications protocol was there or not.
* Spare tire detect for the TC module assumes that you have the mini-spare, so if it detects a spare on the rear, mini-spare tractive capabilities are assumed, not the "Front Size Spare" which would have greater tractive capability.

TC wasn't available on the first units because the engineering for the TC package and wasn't done yet. TC was brought in mid-year when everything was done and proven out.

[RF Overlord]

And there you have it, gentlemen, from the TRUE voice of cold, hard reason... :D

(Sorry, Macon...I couldn't resist...)

[FLA RAUD FAN]

Brian,
You seem to have a pretty good handle on this traction control system. I have a 300B with T/C ....and the full size spare ....will this combination function properly????

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

(Sarcastic) they must have saved a lot of money by deleting the plastic stand alone clock, the remote fuel door release, and the full size spare. how much could they POSSIBLY have save on that stuff vs how much they spent on T/C, and heated seats. CHEEP BASTIGES! Im sure all of us here could run FMC, and sell alot more cars (or run it into the ground within SECONDS)!

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by Brian
* Wiring in IP for switch. Despite claims above that the wiring is there on the early units, I do not believe that to be the case.


that wiring is there. on the Crown Victorias without TC as well. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's plugged into a spot on the back of the IP cover.
Of course that doesn't mean it's a simple matter of just adding the switch

[jgc61sr2002]

Brian - That is why FMC decontented most 300B's and all MM's manufactured in 2003. They were trying to defray the cost. IMHO. John:(

[Brian]

FLA RAUD FAN -
I'm not in a position to speak to whether or not the system will function properly with the "Front Size" spare. I can make some factual observatios for you, for what it is worth.
* Obviously, with the "Front size" spare on the front of the car, there is no difference.
* The rolling radius of the "front Size" spare is almost the same as the mini spare. Note that the TC software has a spare tire detect mode which is based on sensing that the spare has a different rolling radius than the standard rear tires.
* With Spare Tire detect mode, there are a somewhat different set of parameters that are used to sense and control rear wheel slippage. I am not very familiar with the spare tire mode, or what the different parameters mean to how the system performs when a spare tire is on the rear.
* To the best of my knowledge, the TC system was developed and optimized to work with the mini-spare.
* As is the case for either the "front size" spare or the mini spare, if you have to use one of those on your car (due to flat, etc.) you would be well advised to drive in a safe and "low key" manner, avoiding race-car-like driving, as the tractive capabliity (for accelerating, cornering, and stopping) of one of your rear tires is less than the other tire. When put on the rear, both the "front size" spare tire and certainly the mini spare tire should be considered a temporary spare tire only, and replaced with a regular rear tire size as soon as is practicle. This last paragraph is just common sense for all cars, and words to that effect are in the owner's guide, but I can't count the number of times I have seen some driver driving down the freeway at well above 70mph with a mini-spare on their car. Makes me cringe.

[FLA RAUD FAN]

Thanks Brain, that's pretty much what I expected.....as in many cases common sense and good judgement applies. I appreciate the response.
JP

[the fat bastid]

{reading brian's post}
ok...ok...that might be exspensive...i dont even know what that is...uh-hu...alright.
{/reading}

so i'm picking up the feeling that you dont recommend doing it......but could it technically be done?

[Brian]

Well, just about anything is technically feasible if you have enough knowlege and $$!!

Seriously though, without access to FMC design change records and technical specifications, I am not sure how someone would know for sure what they had to change to do it. Of course if you replaced enough parts, it should theoretically work. Probably nobody has studied which parts would have to change to convert a 300A to add TC, so trying to do so in your own garage might result in a lot of frustration.

[chapel1]

With all those homebrew changes to a 300A I pity the poor wrench or next buyer to find out WTF is it ?If there ever was ever a problem with the system down the line?My 2 cents.Save your money.

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

chapel1, I just noticed your signiture. this question has burned away the back of my head, so tell me is the accord V6 really faster that the MM?

[RCSignals]

Originally posted by DLoreanMARAUDER
chapel1, I just noticed your signiture. this question has burned away the back of my head, so tell me is the accord V6 really faster that the MM?

Car and Driver couldn't be wrong, could they?

[RCSignals]

Brian, do you think the traction control would recognise a fullsize wheel with front tire as a spare if used on the rear instead of the mini spare?