Question for LEO's

[sweetair]

OK, so here is my story. I was driving home last Thurs. minding my own business, when I look up and down the road there is a Montgomery County police officer sitting in a very usual spot for speed enforcement, and you guessed it. I get stopped for doing 51 in a 35 zone. She was standing outside her vehicle and stepped out into the roadway to stop me. She asks me for my license and registration, informs me I was doing the speed mentioned above, and if I am in a hurry today. I reply, "I'm sorry officer, I didn't realize I was travelling that fast. I produce the documents,give them to her (did I mention that I was in the 'rauder). At that point as she has walked to the front and rear to check plates I ask her if after she runs my license and sees that it's "clean" if a warning might be able to be given. She procedes to tell me that she can't as she has to treat all people the same way. I then told her that giving everyone a warning would be fine with me. Not much of a smile there. I see that I am going to recieve a summons here. She returns with my info, and hands me my ticket and explains that I need to sign here and that it does not admit guilt. I asked her if she saw the vehicle in front of me and what speed that vehicle was doing? She said she did not know. She shot at me and I was going faster that the car in front of me. So now is my question(s)............
1. What bothers me is that she was at the bottom of a pretty long, steep hill, actually, she was on the up-slope after the bottom of the hill. When she shot me I was travelling down-hill, she was up the hill in front of me, perhaps this is a reach here, but the radar/laser shot was the hypotnuse of this triangle. I am trying to describe this and hope my point is getting across here. I really don't know what speed I was doing. Probably what I was told. Might my speed be inflated due to road elevations, even by one mph? perhaps??
2. I would like to go and talk to the judge about this situation and see if I might be able to get a PBJ (probation before judgement) judgement I got about 3 yrs ago for a different citation. The money charge is not the issue, I would rather keep my license clean with my ins. co. My plea is not that reading is inaccurate, but that this is a road I travel every day 2 times. I do abide by the posted limit (I really do) but I felt that I was travelling with traffic down hill, coasting and riding my brakes.

On the citation there is two ways to present for this :1. guilty with an explanation, where the officer does not need to be there, or 2. not guilty where this is front of a judge. The last time wqs in front of a judge. Does anyone here have any rec. on how to plea this. I am ready for ridicule and razzing and hopefully some info......thanx...............

[younga1]

After 3+ years, a good ticket atty. and a bit of $$$, I was able to negotiate a deal on a 84MPH in a 40 zone.

Took defensive driving and kept it off my record.

Go for it!! "EVERYTHING is negotiable!!

[DEFYANT]

I am a radar / laser operator (LEO) in Harford County, Md.

Spare me the need to go into a long disertation on how radar or laser works. Suffice to say your are caught.

Your best option in this case would be to go to court for the PBJ. IF you have a clean license and decent driving history. In that case you would most likely receive the fine and court costs. The points would not be charged against you unless you get caught again.

16 over the limit should not cause a problem for you with the judge.

Good luck

[03SILVERSTREAK]

I am a radar / laser operator (LEO) in Harford County, Md.

Spare me the need to go into a long disertation on how radar or laser works. Suffice to say your are caught.

Your best option in this case would be to go to court for the PBJ. IF you have a clean license and decent driving history. In that case you would most likely receive the fine and court costs. The points would not be charged against you unless you get caught again.

16 over the limit should not cause a problem for you with the judge.

Good luck

Its like he said- you got caught. no technical razzle-dazzle is going to change anything. if I were you, Id listen to what he sugguest you do. after all he does it for a living and he,s more than qualified in this instance.

[Black_Noise]

dont go to court.... go vanishing point style.....

just kidding

[Wagonmaster]

Sweetair,

As a certified radar/Lidar operator in Washington State I agree with Defyant. DO NOT attempt to explain to the judge how the coefficient of friction created an equalateral fluctuation on throttle position sensor, thereby causing an involuntary increase in linear motion. Judge's get sick and tired of hearing all that crap. You either did it or you did not.

If you have decided that you did not commit the offense and you don't want your insurance to take a hit then contest the citation. Subpeona the Officer and if she doesnt show up then your case will be dismissed. Most Officer's, myself included, do not give a flying flip about a speeding violation to the degree we are willing to come to court on our day off or if we are working night shift. Its a traffic citation, if you get off, BFD I personally dont care if I was the issuing Officer.

When you get your court date request a continuance, this will prolong your innocence and the Officer's memory will get more and more vague as time goes by. Be sure to request discovery when you send in your citation. Does your jurisdiction offer a deferral in lieu of a mitigation? If so, consider this option. If you admit the offense but promise to be good for a year then the citation will be dropped. If your a bad boy and you get caught committing another traffic offense then they BOTH go on your record. Consider all your options before you make a decision. Good luck.

GT

[Dragcity]

You are NEVER guilty of anything. You could always call the Disrict Attorney and see what you can do to avoid conviction (Parking tickets For $150 please)

I was just stopped for 58 in a 35 ( in the v-12 Jag) oops. I forget how quickly that sucker gains speed, I just wanted to change lanes ahead of another driver. Anyway, I had to call in a favor right then and there on the street. I haven't driven the Jag since.

If your record is clean, you should be able to slip through. Be Nice though. Remorseful and all.

[SID210SA]

I got caught doing 120 in a 50 on a completly empty 4 lane freeway in a Town Car. The officer was pretty light on me but not on my brother who was a passenger. The officer gave me a ticket for 74 in a 50. He was entering the freeway from a clover leaf entrance after I passed the entrance...good timming on his part or poor timming on mine as I was getting off at the next exit. I know its no excuse but I was running late for a radio gig in the middle of the night at a college radio station. My brother was taken in for an outstanding warrant on a traffic ticket he did not pay. I took probation for 6 months and comedy defensive driving and the ticket was dismissed. That happened about 10 years ago in a borrowed car. Never again...

[SergntMac]

I just hate finding a thread where the best advice has been posted...

Was the officer cute?

[fastblackmerc]

Go to court and see the DA. Most times they will allow a plea to 9mph over the spped limit.... you pay the fine & court costs, you get no points on your license & no insurance points. This happens alot as most juristictions only want the money.

[ckadiddle]

I get a ticket for something every ten years or so... I took the idiot driver course online, faxed in my certificate of completion to the clerk of the courts. This gets the points off my license, but can only be done so many times. Didn't have to waste a whole Saturday in class. Check and see if your state has a similar program.

[ParkRanger]

Sweetair,

As a certified radar/Lidar operator in Washington State I agree with Defyant. DO NOT attempt to explain to the judge how the coefficient of friction created an equalateral fluctuation on throttle position sensor, thereby causing an involuntary increase in linear motion. Judge's get sick and tired of hearing all that crap. You either did it or you did not.

If you have decided that you did not commit the offense and you don't want your insurance to take a hit then contest the citation. Subpeona the Officer and if she doesnt show up then your case will be dismissed. Most Officer's, myself included, do not give a flying flip about a speeding violation to the degree we are willing to come to court on our day off or if we are working night shift. Its a traffic citation, if you get off, BFD I personally dont care if I was the issuing Officer.

When you get your court date request a continuance, this will prolong your innocence and the Officer's memory will get more and more vague as time goes by. Be sure to request discovery when you send in your citation. Does your jurisdiction offer a deferral in lieu of a mitigation? If so, consider this option. If you admit the offense but promise to be good for a year then the citation will be dropped. If your a bad boy and you get caught committing another traffic offense then they BOTH go on your record. Consider all your options before you make a decision. Good luck.

GT

This is THE definitive answer!!

However, if you are going to insist on Euclidean geometry as a mitigating factor forget the hypotenuse and go with, "The angle of the dangle is proportional to the heat of the ...."

PR :burnout:

[cyclone03]

Judge doesn't care about science,fight the ticket,continue it as long as posible to cut the profit out of the ticket.35 is probley 20mph lower than the road can be driven safely anyway.

No relly go for traffic school or deferred dejudication if it's offered.

[Bluerauder]

OK, so here is my story. I was driving home last Thurs. minding my own business, when I look up and down the road there is a Montgomery County police officer sitting in a very usual spot for speed enforcement, and you guessed it. I get stopped for doing 51 in a 35 zone. She was standing outside her vehicle and stepped out into the roadway to stop me. She asks me for my license and registration, informs me I was doing the speed mentioned above, and if I am in a hurry today. I reply, "I'm sorry officer, I didn't realize I was travelling that fast. I produce the documents,give them to her (did I mention that I was in the 'rauder). At that point as she has walked to the front and rear to check plates I ask her if after she runs my license and sees that it's "clean" if a warning might be able to be given. She procedes to tell me that she can't as she has to treat all people the same way. I then told her that giving everyone a warning would be fine with me. Not much of a smile there. I see that I am going to recieve a summons here. She returns with my info, and hands me my ticket and explains that I need to sign here and that it does not admit guilt. I asked her if she saw the vehicle in front of me and what speed that vehicle was doing? She said she did not know. She shot at me and I was going faster that the car in front of me. So now is my question(s)............
1. What bothers me is that she was at the bottom of a pretty long, steep hill, actually, she was on the up-slope after the bottom of the hill. When she shot me I was travelling down-hill, she was up the hill in front of me, perhaps this is a reach here, but the radar/laser shot was the hypotnuse of this triangle. I am trying to describe this and hope my point is getting across here. I really don't know what speed I was doing. Probably what I was told. Might my speed be inflated due to road elevations, even by one mph? perhaps??
2. I would like to go and talk to the judge about this situation and see if I might be able to get a PBJ (probation before judgement) judgement I got about 3 yrs ago for a different citation. The money charge is not the issue, I would rather keep my license clean with my ins. co. My plea is not that reading is inaccurate, but that this is a road I travel every day 2 times. I do abide by the posted limit (I really do) but I felt that I was travelling with traffic down hill, coasting and riding my brakes.

On the citation there is two ways to present for this :1. guilty with an explanation, where the officer does not need to be there, or 2. not guilty where this is front of a judge. The last time wqs in front of a judge. Does anyone here have any rec. on how to plea this. I am ready for ridicule and razzing and hopefully some info......thanx...............
You have already gotten excellent advice from folks more experienced in this. :D

Seems to me that you started ^^^^ "the negotiation process" very early with the officer on site. IMHO -- I don't really think they like this tactic and it probably works more against you than vice versa. :o

In each and every case where I was pulled over (not much), I knew "exactly" why I was singled out. I am polite, respectful, and say Yes, Sir or No, Sir as appropriate. (I never get pulled over by women :rolleyes: ). This tactic has gotten me a warning more often than not. This is just my opinion -- but it seems to work in my case.

[sweetair]

I just hate finding a thread where the best advice has been posted...

Was the officer cute?Absolutely not at all. She had no sense of humor at all. I wish she was. I might have acted up to see if I could get the cuffs on..hahahahah:D

[sweetair]

I appreciate all the replys. I have 0 pts to date. Would just like to keep it that way. The hypotenose theory was just a question I am not planning on bringing it up as reason for anything. Just curious. I got caught, and know this is a watched area and am even more pissed @ this happeneing because of that. We'll see what happens.. Thanks again.

[BigGuyBigCar]

I once tried the "Everyone else was speeding" excuse. I was on an Interstate doing 67 in a 55 zone.

In return, officer asked me "Do you fish?

I replied, "Yes."

He said, "Do you try to catch every fish in the pond."

I replied, "No."

He then said, "Neither do I, neither do I."

BUT, in return for having given him the straight lines for his joke, I got off with a warning.

[sweetair]

I once tried the "Everyone else was speeding" excuse. I was on an Interstate doing 67 in a 55 zone.

In return, officer asked me "Do you fish?

I replied, "Yes."

He said, "Do you try to catch every fish in the pond."

I replied, "No."

He then said, "Neither do I, neither do I."

BUT, in return for having given him the straight lines for his joke, I got off with a warning.Good point. My point is that my speed wasn't a concern at that moment as I was gauging it from the vehicle in front of me as I was coasting down a steep hill in a 2 ton car with BOTH windows down (it finally was a warm day) tunes on, shades present, and was thinking about mowing the lawn when I got home. 1st mow of the season, and was looking forward to it. Needless to say that didn't happen. Nuff said. I plan on talking this out with the judge, and like the one 3 yrs ago that got reduced to probation, I hope this one does too.

[NRAUD]

I appreciate all the replys. I have 0 pts to date. Would just like to keep it that way. The hypotenose theory was just a question I am not planning on bringing it up as reason for anything. Just curious. I got caught, and know this is a watched area and am even more pissed @ this happeneing because of that. We'll see what happens.. Thanks again.
I think that your description of the positions of yourself and the officer would result in a lower reading than your actual speed. Your driving record is favorable to negotiating a deal...try to get the suspended sentence for a probationary period or dismissed altogether. Some insurance reps say they look at any moving violation on a driving abstract, regardless of points (I guess any method of looking for a risk in a driver). But that's only in the case that they check your abstract. Unless your insurance company regularly reviews or checks, they wouldn't find out unless you're applying for insurance with a new carrier.

[shami02]

I appreciate all the replys. I have 0 pts to date. Would just like to keep it that way. The hypotenose theory was just a question I am not planning on bringing it up as reason for anything. Just curious. I got caught, and know this is a watched area and am even more pissed @ this happeneing because of that. We'll see what happens.. Thanks again.

Sweetair,

Can I guess, was it going down the hill on Randolph Road comming from Rockville? Just wondering..

[shami02]

I am a radar / laser operator (LEO) in Harford County, Md.

Spare me the need to go into a long disertation on how radar or laser works. Suffice to say your are caught.

Your best option in this case would be to go to court for the PBJ. IF you have a clean license and decent driving history. In that case you would most likely receive the fine and court costs. The points would not be charged against you unless you get caught again.

16 over the limit should not cause a problem for you with the judge.


Good luck


Hey DEFYANT,

I just started commuting to APG from down montgomery county way, Going up 95 at O'-Dark-o'clock in the mm it is really easy to get moving a bit quicker than the posted limit... I guess if you get me on Radar I should just take the ticket.... Or do fellow mm owners get a courtesy brea k.. LOL :burnout:

[Lou]

Look at it this way:

You have a MM and drive it the way it was meant to be driven.

You got caught.

Pay up and move on.

Either that or trade the MM in for a Prius. :alone:

[DEFYANT]

Hey DEFYANT,

I just started commuting to APG from down montgomery county way, Going up 95 at O'-Dark-o'clock in the mm it is really easy to get moving a bit quicker than the posted limit... I guess if you get me on Radar I should just take the ticket.... Or do fellow mm owners get a courtesy brea k.. LOL :burnout:

Only with the "get outta jail free" card. :D

[Brother Mike]

As an attorney I would concur with the advice dispensed here; however if the court is unwilling to negotiate then I would request a hearing and raise the following points:

1. Would the officer please provide a calibration history of the radar gun to ensure it was properly working?

2. What training has she received and can she show proof that she is certified to work the device?

[TRP460]

As an attorney I would concur with the advice dispensed here; however if the court is unwilling to negotiate then I would request a hearing and raise the following points:

1. Would the officer please provide a calibration history of the radar gun to ensure it was properly working?

2. What training has she received and can she show proof that she is certified to work the device?

Good questions! The problem is.......those two questions would be exactly what any LEO testifying during a trial based on a radar arrest would be expected to be asked, and obviously prepared to answer! I would think that you would have to do "better than that" if you wanted to acquit your client. It would probably be better to stick with "Plan A" and, attempt a "negotiation......
:down:

[sweetair]

Sweetair,

Can I guess, was it going down the hill on Randolph Road comming from Rockville? Just wondering..No this was on Watkins Mill Rd coming from Montgomery Vill up towards Germantown just past Apple Ridge Rd. Going down THAT hill.

[sweetair]

Only with the "get outta jail free" card. :DHey Charlie, where does one get that??? LOL. I know, I know. You need to be IN the "Fraternity" for that............:)

[shami02]

Hey Charlie, where does one get that??? LOL. I know, I know. You need to be IN the "Fraternity" for that............:)

Me Toooooooooo

[Dan]

Might my speed be inflated due to road elevations, even by one mph? perhaps??
What you are talking about is called "cosign" error. Odds are that it probably means that you were going faster than the LEO clocked you.

The more of a right angle to you the RADAR gun is the more cosign error works for you. In this situation, because you were on the hypotenuse (coming down a hill) cosign error works against you.

For example...If you were travelling directly towards her, on even ground your speed would read "50." Since you were going on a slope it would take you longer to travel the same distance in the same period of time. This would, in effect, show the officer a lower reading.

Odds are it is a pretty clean stop and her reading was lower than actual. That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to wiggle and negotiate all that you can. In our enlightened era speeding isn't about the law or justice any more, it's about insurance.

If the judge won't play then PM me. I can give you dozens of tips and tricks to make it incredibly demotivating for the town/state to collect their money and, if you use my tricks and they do win, it will cost them a lot more than they'll collect.

Best,

Dan

[ParkRanger]

If the judge won't play then PM me. I can give you dozens of tips and tricks to make it incredibly demotivating for the town/state to collect their money and, if you use my tricks and they do win, it will cost them a lot more than they'll collect.

Best,

Dan

Hey, whose side are you on? :nono:

[Dan]

My patent reply to the question, "Do you know how fast you were going?" is, "I thought that I was driving at a safe and reasonable speed, officer."

Saying that you were going with the flow is bad since they know "the flow" was speeding. Saying that you don't know is bad because, "if you don't know how fast you're driving you're inattentive and need a ticket." Saying that you were going any speed greater than the limit is bad because it gets written in the notes.

Now here is the kicker... Saying that you were driving the speed limit is the worst, even if it is true. Why? Because every officer knows that "nobody drives the limit" and now you deserve a ticket for lying.

Isn't the system so screwed up? :)

Best,

Dan

[Dan]

Hey, whose side are you on? :nono:
While I am great friends with many a LEO I have no respect for the way the traffic system - as it relates to speed limits - is set up. It's not about safety any more. It's about money. Here is an example...http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/10/1076.asp While not about speeding it does show how the traffic system is being abused for revenue in the name of safety.

I actually feel sorry for officers that have to enforce our speed limits.

Best,

Dan