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View Full Version : Underdrive pulleys for real, or snake juice?



Marauder.45
04-14-2006, 08:45 PM
Enlighten me.

duhtroll
04-14-2006, 09:37 PM
They free up ~7 RWHP.

I've seen one car dynotuned with them, and it seemd like they eeked out a few more RWHP for it. Just my $0.02.

Smokie
04-14-2006, 10:07 PM
Enlighten me.

Is an inexpensive way to get your engine to the "sweet" spot faster, they work. It is a modest mod. not earthshaking, when combined with intake and exhaust mods. it yields a low 14's car.

ctrlraven
04-15-2006, 03:05 AM
anyone see any problems sitting at idle with the volts dropping lets say you have the radio, a/c, lights and such on? when i bought mine the alternator had a low charge and the dealership replaced it but i want to make sure the alternator charging system will be alright unless its something very small which i can live with.

SergntMac
04-15-2006, 04:17 AM
anyone see any problems sitting at idle with the volts dropping lets say you have the radio, a/c, lights and such on? when i bought mine the alternator had a low charge and the dealership replaced it but i want to make sure the alternator charging system will be alright unless its something very small which i can live with. This has been discussed here as much as oil weights. Not everyone suffers this problem, but it's easy to work around. You can have your tune adjusted for higher idle in gear, or, make the adjustment yourself on the throttle linkage. Either way, it's not a reason to avoid the benefits of UDPs.

RoyLPita
04-15-2006, 04:39 AM
I'm looking forward to getting my set soon.

Blackened300a
04-15-2006, 05:09 AM
I love my pulleys, I felt a difference after bolting them on. I had my tuner set my in-drive idle to 750 and no low voltage problems for the 15k miles I have on them.

Install tip: DO NOT USE IMPACT TOOLS TO INSTALL!!!!!
Any problems you have heard about damage to the engine is a result of improper installation

94_302
04-15-2006, 07:01 AM
Install tip: DO NOT USE IMPACT TOOLS TO INSTALL!!!!!
Any problems you have heard about damage to the engine is a result of improper installation

I had been thinking about picking up a set but it seems that the majority of Mach 1 and Cobra owners say its not worth the risk. There have been a few problems associate with them, I just find it hard to believe that all those people installed it improperly. I'm not against underdrives, my 94 has them. But with the 5.0 I only read positive reports of them, then with the 4.6 I read a lot of mixed feelings on them so I'm not as confident in putting them on this car.

SergntMac
04-15-2006, 07:49 AM
You don't mean '03/'04 Cobra owners, do you? UDPs are a waste of money on a blower car, wouldn't make any difference at all.

It always good to keep in mind that all mods have liabilities, sometimes hidden, sometimes not. Plenty of folks here running UDPs, no problems.

94_302
04-15-2006, 08:09 AM
You don't mean '03/'04 Cobra owners, do you? UDPs are a waste of money on a blower car, wouldn't make any difference at all.

It always good to keep in mind that all mods have liabilities, sometimes hidden, sometimes not. Plenty of folks here running UDPs, no problems.

No, I'm talking about 99-01 cobra owners. Some have had problems but a lot seem to say it's not worth it. The Mach 1 owners, now they have reported a lot of problems. It's just this very mixed feelings amongst these owners that have persuaded me not to. I know each install is different some may have used an impact wrench some may have used the bolt that comes with the steeda kit, from what I here that is not a bolt to be used just one to line things up. The fact that there is such a positive vibe throughout the Marauder group yet a mixed among the Mach and Cobras is enough to make me uncertain on getting a set. The Mach is pretty much the same motor, the auto ones at least, so I still have trouble seeing why it differs between these owner groups.

Blackmobile
04-15-2006, 08:15 AM
I love my pulleys, I felt a difference after bolting them on. I had my tuner set my in-drive idle to 750 and no low voltage problems for the 15k miles I have on them.

Install tip: DO NOT USE IMPACT TOOLS TO INSTALL!!!!!
Any problems you have heard about damage to the engine is a result of improper installation

What's the harm in using an impact tool? If you don't use one, how do you hold the crank still?

Also, does anyone else know about using silicon in on the key and keyway of the crank pully? (it stops the oil from leaking around the key)

Joe Walsh
04-15-2006, 08:18 AM
I had been thinking about picking up a set but it seems that the majority of Mach 1 and Cobra owners say its not worth the risk. There have been a few problems associate with them, I just find it hard to believe that all those people installed it improperly. I'm not against underdrives, my 94 has them. But with the 5.0 I only read positive reports of them, then with the 4.6 I read a lot of mixed feelings on them so I'm not as confident in putting them on this car.

I agree...All the failures are not due to bad installs. I lost my oil pump and I know that my UDPs were installed correctly.
It not like UDP installs -> oil pump failures are an epidemic....but.....
The underdrive crank pulley/balancer has significantly less mass than the OEM unit. The FORD engineers didn't make the OEM balancer big and heavy for no reason.
Add to this, the fact that the Modular motors have the oil pump drive gears mounted directly to the front of the crankshaft snout right behind the crank pulley/balancer.
Any additional vibrations, or to put it another way, less dampening of vibrations by the smaller, lighter UDP puts more stress on the powdered metal oil pump gears.
Plus most owners who install UDPs are running their engine harder and to higher rpms. I think that this is what is causing many of the oil pump gear failures.
I still have my UDPs on my car but I also have a set of billet oil pump gears as well.
You cannot argue the fact that UDPs require less HP to turn, therefore that HP is now available to help turn the rear wheels....
regardless of what type car, engine or induction system.
The question you have to ask yourself, as with any mod, is: Is a relatively small HP gain worth the $$$ cost and any potential problems associated with it.
As I've already stated, I have a underdrive crank pulley. I want every possible HP made by my engine to go to the REAR WHEELS!:burn:

Blackened300a
04-15-2006, 08:41 AM
What's the harm in using an impact tool? If you don't use one, how do you hold the crank still?

Also, does anyone else know about using silicon in on the key and keyway of the crank pully? (it stops the oil from leaking around the key)

You may use a impact tool to remove the bolt, but when installing the new pulley you have to use a ratchet with the socket, tighten the installation bolt til snug, back the bolt out, then install a new crank bolt, tighten til snug, Then have someone go underneth the car and hold a wrench on one of the Torque convertor bolts to hold the engine from spinning, Torque to spec then a additional 1/4 turn and thats it.
Its reccomended to use some silicone on the bolt but dont over do it.

SergntMac
04-15-2006, 08:53 AM
The fact that there is such a positive vibe throughout the Marauder group yet a mixed among the Mach and Cobras is enough to make me uncertain on getting a set. The Mach is pretty much the same motor, the auto ones at least, so I still have trouble seeing why it differs between these owner groups. My best advice now, is to not install UDPs. You'll drive yourself nutty wondering when disaster is going to strike. The gains are minimal, but so is the investment, however, if you don't have 100 percent confidence in the mod, you'll not enjoy it. There are other way to make power without them.

Blackmobile
04-15-2006, 08:55 AM
You may use a impact tool to remove the bolt, but when installing the new pulley you have to use a ratchet with the socket, tighten the installation bolt til snug, back the bolt out, then install a new crank bolt, tighten til snug, Then have someone go underneth the car and hold a wrench on one of the Torque convertor bolts to hold the engine from spinning, Torque to spec then a additional 1/4 turn and thats it.
Its reccomended to use some silicone on the bolt but dont over do it.

Thanks for the info. Every little bit of information for this site is golden. I'll have to pass this information on.

RoyLPita
04-15-2006, 08:56 AM
I'm willing to give it a shot, just for s---- and giggles.

RF Overlord
04-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Had underdrive pulleys on The Blackbird for about a year and a half...felt like the motor would spool up quicker...had Dennis raise the idle in drive by 100 RPM...No electrical problems...Only removed them when the Trilogy went on.

Marauder.45
04-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Wow, this thread took off!

So this mod could amount to almost a .1 on your ET,

As we all know, the first 2 seconds are cheap, the last 1 second is pricey:D
Once you start going fast, it takes $$$$ to shave 10ths. Ain't it fun.

This thread has good info, thanks. One last thing, with all the experience with UDPs, Can someone list the steps to take that aren't on the instructions?

No impact tools on install?
Silicone where for leaks?
Anything else?

Big House
04-15-2006, 10:14 AM
I have had to 4.6L engines. One in my T-bird, SOHC and my Marauder and they both have benefited from the UDPS. I used them now and will use them again if I had to. Like it was posted earlier...they get you to teh sweet spot in the RPM curve in a blink...making the car just that more fun to drive, thus making it all the way worth it.

Blackened300a
04-15-2006, 11:21 AM
Just a tidbit, I had my car dynoed with the pullies installed, I then watch Kyrtin and my co-worker Pete dyno their cars and the difference in the sound of the engine and how quick mine spooled up compared to theirs proved there is a difference.

Pullies were my very first Mod and I felt a difference after the install, I was able to break traction easier and the car felt like it strained less getting up to redline.

rayjay
04-15-2006, 12:25 PM
Whats the install time on these? I did my own on my ZX3, but that engine is internally balanced, install would be pretty hard to mess up. I would probably have my local FLM service dept do them to make sure it was done right.

Blackened300a
04-15-2006, 01:51 PM
You will need a puller to remove the stock pulley so with disassembly and then the installation, I would have to say 1/2 hour from start to finish if you are handy.

LVMarauder
04-16-2006, 09:36 PM
I've had mine for a while, motor spools up faster , sounds great, was slight sotp change but nothing like a high stall converter or the juice.

magindat
04-17-2006, 05:45 AM
Thanks for the info. Every little bit of information for this site is golden. I'll have to pass this information on.

Just did mine, by myself. Tell ya how at the meeting.

RoyLPita
04-17-2006, 07:13 AM
Just did mine, by myself. Tell ya how at the meeting.

I might have to tell him. I believe that he will be in Bradenton with Rick on Friday.

juno
04-17-2006, 09:54 AM
FYI, there has been some discussion on Mustang boards about the UDP's causing bad harmonics and destroying oil pump gears which leads to bad juju.
Some claim it is due to cheap pullies or bad install or whatever.
I do not recall any stories here related to that. Maybe they just beat the piss out of their cars more.
See if you can talk your Ford dealer into putting them on for you. :D

BruteForce
04-17-2006, 10:37 AM
See if you can talk your Ford dealer into putting them on for you. :D

My dealer was more than happy to put them in.

StevenJ
04-17-2006, 10:39 AM
I've had my pullies since day one. The original owner had a set of steeda pullies installed. Over time, they can cause the battery to recharge slower and it may case the engine to stall on hard complete stops. I had that happen a few times. I had bought a SCT tuner from Lidio and had him raise the idle a bit. Seems to be a good gain in performance though. Engine does spool up fairly quickly with them installed.

juno
04-17-2006, 11:45 AM
My dealer was more than happy to put them in.

That's the way to go!

RF Overlord
04-17-2006, 12:51 PM
FYI, there has been some discussion on Mustang boards about the UDP's causing bad harmonics and destroying oil pump gears which leads to bad juju.
Some claim it is due to cheap pullies or bad install or whatever.
There was one member here who installed one particular brand of pulley (March, maybe?) and didn't realise it was a piggy-back style, meant to be installed in addition to, not in place of, the stock balancer. His motor didn't last long. Other than that, I've not heard of a single problem with any pulleys on a Marauder, other than the usual headlight-dimming effect, which is easily remedied.

Blackened300a
04-17-2006, 02:52 PM
FYI, there has been some discussion on Mustang boards about the UDP's causing bad harmonics and destroying oil pump gears which leads to bad juju.
Some claim it is due to cheap pullies or bad install or whatever.
I do not recall any stories here related to that.

There is a Jedi Mind trick that gets performed here if you speak ill of a product sold by a Supporting Vendor

Marauder.45
04-17-2006, 03:34 PM
I've not heard of a single problem with any pulleys on a Marauder, other than the usual headlight-dimming effect, which is easily remedied.


What is the remedy?

Blackened300a
04-17-2006, 03:37 PM
What is the remedy?

Raise the idle 200 rpms

RF Overlord
04-17-2006, 03:38 PM
What is the remedy?Have your idle-in-drive speed bumped by 100 RPM or so...it'll also help the low air conditioner output issue as well.

juno
04-18-2006, 06:13 AM
There is a Jedi Mind trick that gets performed here if you speak ill of a product sold by a Supporting Vendor

And who did I speak ill of?
I said there were no problems here that I knew of.

Looking for something that is not there?