question about oil change

[kj31067]

i was wondering about proper procedure for jacking up front of car.
i was looking at cross piece just in front of deep part of pan.
is that strong enough to lift car by ? it looks to be aluminum
and on my crown vic that was a good spot but it was steel and had a steering box no rack to worry about can i lift car by that? is it strong enough? or do i have to jack it up by the frame behind front tires one side at a time? thanks

[Bradley G]

Only lift behind front wheels or in front of rear wheels.Look underneath thier are chassis supports.
Do not support the cars' weight on the aluminum crossmember.

[kj31067]

Only lift behind front wheels or in front of rear wheels.Look underneath thier are chassis supports.
Do not support the cars' weight on the aluminum crossmember.
thanks thats what i thought but i was just double checking
again thanks

[magindat]

Owners manual says no jacking by the diff, either!!!!

[kj31067]

Owners manual says no jacking by the diff, either!!!!
i had a feeling that was the deal in the back if i remember correctly that was the deal with crown vic also..........thanks

[Fourth Horseman]

i was wondering about proper procedure for jacking up front of car.
i was looking at cross piece just in front of deep part of pan.
is that strong enough to lift car by ? it looks to be aluminum
and on my crown vic that was a good spot but it was steel and had a steering box no rack to worry about can i lift car by that? is it strong enough? or do i have to jack it up by the frame behind front tires one side at a time? thanks

Personally, I like ramps for oil changes. No muss, no fuss.

[sweetair]

Personally, I like ramps for oil changes. No muss, no fuss.Ramps are nice except when you drive off them and land on the frame. This has NOT happened to me, but I've seen it done before. Ouch...............

[David Morton]

(deleted by David Morton) Reason: MM03MOK doesn't like what I have to offer to this site.

[Fourth Horseman]

Please expound upon why a car sitting on ramps is deadly.

[DEFYANT]

Please expound upon why a car sitting on ramps is deadly.

Yes yes ^^^^ what he said...

I've used them for many years with all kinds of vehicles. I've been around repair shops as a young buck where they were used and as part of the FD and/or PD since 1989, I have never heard of any injury related to the use of drive up ramps.

Please explain.

[natedog1284]

I think some of the cheaper type stamped-steel ramps can sometimes twist and collapse if they are not perfectly level. That being said, they're pretty much all I use. Plastic ones are actually better, as they have more internal structural support, or better yet, use wooden ones. Anytime a car is suspended in the air, whether it's jackstands, ramps, jacks, lifts, etc. there is a potentially fatal hazard present, but usually as a result of operator error. (In my Imperial Club, one guy was killed because he put jackstands on top of cynder blocks to support a 1959 Imperial. When he was underneath, the blocks broke and he was done for.) It's all about excercising extreme caution.

[jimlam56]

David Morton: Jacking under the differential housing can cause it to leak.


Where do you suggest as good lifting points that still allow a good spot to position the jack stands? Have to say I used the floor jack on the diff so I could put the stands under the shocks when I installed my addco.

[Rider90]

I've jacked the car up from the aluminum crossmember...

I've also jacked the car up from the rear differential...

no leaks, no problems. Game on.

[Warpath]

Jacking under the differential housing can cause it to leak...
About the K-frame, it's probably strong enough to support the weight of the car because the front suspension of the car is already on it (DOH!), and being cast aluminum, it's pretty tough stuff. Has to be because I'm sure the engineers thought of the speed bump/pothole/bottoming out possibility.

As David mentioned, don't chance it by jacking on the differential. It states specifically in the manual not to do so. I would think Ford would have reason to put it in the manual. Sure, one or two people may not find any issues, not at first. But, if everyone here did it, I'm sure some people will find a leak.

Secondly, by jacking in the middle of the cross member, you are loading a different spot on the crossmember than what is loaded by the suspension. That section may not be able to support the front of the vehicle in one spot. The suspension distributes the loads over a broader area and through the frame. Also, you are reversing the bending moment in the cross member. It may be designed only to support a bending moment in one direction and not the other. Unless you know how it was designed, you cannot determine what it can hold by looking at it. Lastly, from my experience, the suspension is designed to not to bottom out ever unless parts of the suspension are missing. The frame/suspension would not survive an impact like that unless it was build like a tank (literally). So, I disagree with you that because you assume its designed to hit the ground (which it is not) that it can support the front of the vehicle.

[Marauderjack]

Jack points are clearly marked by an arrow (v) on the black trim below the doors!!??:beer:

Marauderjack:rolleyes:

[grampaws]

Ramps are nice except when you drive off them and land on the frame. This has NOT happened to me, but I've seen it done before. Ouch...............

Had a ramp colapse on one wheel and the other drove over the other
ramp when it lurched forward ..couldn't handle the weight of the truck
. Cheap ramps--get solid ones and with long ramp sections or they
scrape the underside of lower vehicles..and yes the got wedged under
the frame between the rear ofthe tire frame and ground..ended up using
the floorjack just to get them out!!
These where stamped as per natedog and David make sure you purchase
ramps that exceed the weight rating of the vehicle and use on level surface!!
Jack stands are a good precaution using any lifting device!!

[JMan]

Knew a guy here that used ramps without stands. His Camaro crushed him to death when the stands buckled sideways while he was underneath. The initial blow did not kill him - the weight of the car suffocated him. Not a very pleasant way to die, wouldn't you say? Please don't use those cheap-ass or any ramps/jacks without jackstands. And for God's sake, leave the jack under there too just for added protection. I don't want to ever have to read an obituary again about a friend or acquaintance that died that way.

Thanks in advance!

J

[David Morton]

Ramps are for lazy people that want to use the engine of the car to do the work of jacking it up. I'm lazy too, but I won't take unnecessary chances with my life to save work.

Living in this world is like playing Russian roulette everyday. Hell, I suppose jackstands can fail although I NEVER heard of anyone dying from a jackstand failure, but I have heard of guys being crushed to death using ramps, hence I don't use ramps. I guess I'm saying ramps are deadlier than jackstands. Much deadlier.

Warpath, right after I first got mine some guy ran me off the road and I went right over a curb where it curved and the crossmember hit it hard, REAL HARD. It bent the place right where the drivers side bolt on the rack is and bent it up and even cracked the little foot thingy sticking out there, no problems. Didn't even change the alignment. That crossmember is nearly solid, cast aluminum alloy and very tough.

jimlam56, best thing is to put stands under the frame, near the jacking points and then use the jack under the axle tubes to do the shock change.

[RF Overlord]

I don't mean to dispute anyone's experience with ramps, but just to add my $0.02, I have used ramps all my life and NEVER had a problem, or even heard of a problem with them. The ones I have now are Rhino Ramps that I bought at AutoZone, rated for 8,000 lbs, which would be a 4-to-1 safety margin. I examined them carefully before purchase, and short of gross overloading, I don't see how they can fail catastrophically. I also inspect them regularly for any signs of stress.

[JMan]

I don't mean to dispute anyone's experience with ramps, but just to add my $0.02, I have used ramps all my life and NEVER had a problem, or even heard of a problem with them. The ones I have now are Rhino Ramps that I bought at AutoZone, rated for 8,000 lbs, which would be a 4-to-1 safety margin. I examined them carefully before purchase, and short of gross overloading, I don't see how they can fail catastrophically. I also inspect them regularly for any signs of stress.

RF,
They don't fail linearally, they fail laterally. Please use jack stands with them, please!

If I didn't give a [little muslim], I wouldn't say anything!

J

[grampaws]

Ramps are safe to use if..used on level surface,are rated for
the weight,inspected for any defects and discarded if faulty..
If used properly ramps are a usefull Tool and I have no
reservations about using them..The failure of my ramps
was due to the cheap manufacture and age.. the defect
had made itself evident before their failure and the precautionary
jack stand was used..there was no danger..I had not discarded
them when the defect originally appeared..being aware of possible
failures which do occur will make precautions and there use safer.
I have been aware of jack and hoist failures..anytime a large
object is suspended above you--
a backup support or safety device should always be used
no matter the lifting method..

[natedog1284]

Ramps are for lazy people that want to use the engine of the car to do the work of jacking it up. I'm lazy too, but I won't take unnecessary chances with my life to save work.

Living in this world is like playing Russian roulette everyday. Hell, I suppose jackstands can fail although I NEVER heard of anyone dying from a jackstand failure, but I have heard of guys being crushed to death using ramps, hence I don't use ramps. I guess I'm saying ramps are deadlier than jackstands. Much deadlier.

They can be, true, but I have also seen both hydraulic jacks and jackstands fail on an un-level surface, so it's all about where you use them. If the ramps are level, undamaged and rated for the weight, there is really no reason for them to fail. (Of course, ***** inevitably happens, so multiple safety precautions are always reccomended).

....Man, we hijacked the hell out of this thread....sorry :o

[grampaws]

RF,
They don't fail linearally, they fail laterally. Please use jack stands with them, please!

If I didn't give a [little muslim], I wouldn't say anything!

J

Actually mine failed linearly the front support folded underneath the
front of the ramp as the vehicle was driving up the ramp.It had reached
the top, applied the brakes the forward motion folded the ramp.
They where showing signs flexing from stress of frequent use
and should have been discarded sooner..

[kj31067]

thanks to all for your input. i will go the extra bit to jack car up properly as s@#$t does happen. i have used ramps in the past,
but they were made of layered planks. they held up the 72 fury gran coupe no problem back in the day. i appreciate the input and that is why i check into this site daily on numerous occasions.
i have 2 jacks and 2 sets of jackstands. all will be right. i have 2 small ones and a wife to think about. i will not be taking chances!!

[David Morton]

Success! :D

"He who saves one life saves the world entire." -Talmud

[Warpath]

...Warpath, right after I first got mine some guy ran me off the road and I went right over a curb where it curved and the crossmember hit it hard, REAL HARD. It bent the place right where the drivers side bolt on the rack is and bent it up and even cracked the little foot thingy sticking out there, no problems. Didn't even change the alignment. That crossmember is nearly solid, cast aluminum alloy and very tough...

You may want to get that cross member changed or at least check it with die penetrant to make sure that crack didn't propogate to some place where it will do more damage. As I mentioned before, in my experience, we don't design parts to survive such an impact. Just because it looks OK, it doesn't necessarily mean it is. Since we're on the subject of saving lives, that cross member holds the suspension on. The suspension keeps the dirty side down. So, I think its in your best interest to take another look at it or better yet, replace it.

A guy I used to work with had one of those stamped steel ramps flatten out on him. It was one of the older ones that didn't have the straps at the bottom.

[David Morton]

Thanks Warpath for your concern. I have had the techs look at it and they assure me it's OK. The body shop at the dealership I bought it from did the work, submitted the estimate to my insurance company and completed the repairs.

At any rate this condition has existed since Aug 2004 but if it does go bad and causes an accident the dealership, or if they tried to get the insurance company to replace it and were denied, the insurance company will get a refresher course on the definition of the word indemnification.

One or the other has guaranteed the integrity of my aluminum K-member.

Still, I give it a good looking over when I do my usual mid-LOF oil drop. I haven't noticed anything unusual or any growing corrsion. Don't expect any since it is cast alloy and no dissimilar metals are attached to or near the crack. I'm sure it's OK.