MTBE out, ethanol in

[2ndMDRebel]

My state's gas stations are switching from MTBE (??) additive gasoline to ethanol additive gasoline, will this require the car to be retuned? The fuel is still rated at 93 octane as far as I know so hopefully it will be safe.

Just curious...

[grampaws]

We have been using10% ethanol for years it should be perfectly
safe and no retuning is necessary!!

[Eric91Z]

I have been running 93 octane with 10% ethanol on Lidio's "normal" 93 octane tune with no ill effects so far. Car runs great. I only run the 93 octane with Ethanol or BP 92 octane in the car with no problems.

[Thomas C Potter]

I've heard that fuel filters may clog if they have some age on 'em. And some recommend that a bottle of 100% isopropyl alcohol be added once a month. The alcohol absorbs any water that in turn mixes randomly with the gas.

TP

[ctrcbob]

TP,

Why in the world would anyone put in a bottle of "Isopropyl Alcohol" when the new fuels are already 10% Ethanol.

Isopropyl Alcohol, is another name for Methanol. In other words, "Wood Alcohol". Ethanol is Grain Alcohol. The Ethanol is already keeping the fuel system clean, and absorbing water.

Twenty Five years ago, ARCO was selling gas in the North East that was 5% Methanol and 5% "Co-Solvents" (to keep the methanol from eating up the rubber in fuel systems). At that time, car manufactures said that you could use up to 5% Methanol, or 10% Ethanol. The ARCO with Methanol lasted for only about a year or two, just as their Motor Oil with Graphite. Then it was gone.

Although we don't have E85 in my area, I would love to add a gallon or two at a fill up, just to see how many gallons per fill up it would take before the car would run bad. I don't think I would try more than five gallons though with the "old" mix or four gallons with the "new" mix. Sure would keep the injectors clean though.

[metroplex]

Isopropyl alcohol is ISOPROPANOL.
Methyl alcohol is METHANOL.
Ethyl alcohol is ETHANOL.

The reason you can't use more than 20% Ethanol in a non-FFV vehicle is the same reason why Methanol is a poor choice. Isopropanol is not as corrosive as ethanol or methanol.

The Flex Fuel Vehicles that are rated for E85 can use E85, otherwise a non-FFV will have its rubber components rotting away when you use a lot of E85.

[Breadfan]

Why the heck bother with this corn gas junk anyway. I saw a show on History channel about the sugar gas in Brazil, they said that with some of the sugar gas blends, with the same octane compared to regular dino-fuels, there was actually an INCREASE in power and fuel economy.

So far I've not heard anything good about E85 that makes me want it to arrive.

If what I saw about the sugar gas is correct though, they can feel free to bring that by.

Anyway, suffice to say, you get the right type of moonshine the car will run pretty decent.

[MENINBLK]

Why in the world would anyone put in a bottle of "Isopropyl Alcohol" when the new fuels are already 10% Ethanol.

Isopropyl Alcohol is the safest DRY GAS you can use in a Fuel Injected Gasoline vehicle.


Isopropyl Alcohol, is another name for Methanol. In other words, "Wood Alcohol". Ethanol is Grain Alcohol. The Ethanol is already keeping the fuel system clean, and absorbing water.

WRONG. MTBE as well as Ethanol are LEAD SUBSTITUTES.
They are there to control the Octane rating of the fuel,
as well as acting as a catalyst to insure your fuel burns completely.


Although we don't have E85 in my area, I would love to add a gallon or two at a fill up, just to see how many gallons per fill up it would take before the car would run bad. I don't think I would try more than five gallons though with the "old" mix or four gallons with the "new" mix. Sure would keep the injectors clean though.

How many gallons do you think you could run before you needed to replace your injectors ?

For someone who's been in the NAVY, you've got your fuels mix up pretty good.

[ctrcbob]

Meninblk,

Alcohol was never my expertise, either on base or off. I was in Communications. :D

[duhtroll]

Those of us in my state are driving on ethanol gas for many years now.

Haven't heard of a single fuel related problem. Ever.

It's just hype.


Isopropyl Alcohol is the safest DRY GAS you can use in a Fuel Injected Gasoline vehicle.



WRONG. MTBE as well as Ethanol are LEAD SUBSTITUTES.
They are there to control the Octane rating of the fuel,
as well as acting as a catalyst to insure your fuel burns completely.



How many gallons do you think you could run before you needed to replace your injectors ?

For someone who's been in the NAVY, you've got your fuels mix up pretty good.

[MENINBLK]

Those of us in my state are driving on ethanol gas for many years now.

Haven't heard of a single fuel related problem. Ever.

It's just hype.


The ethanol we are driving on now is not the same as E-85.
We are driving on fuel that is 10% ethanol.
Our government want us to switch to E-85 which is 85% ethanol !!!

This is a BIG difference...

[metroplex]

WTF? Non-FFV cars cannot use E85...

[duhtroll]

Right, but not in your current vehicle . . ..


The ethanol we are driving on now is not the same as E-85.
We are driving on fuel that is 10% ethanol.
Our government want us to switch to E-85 which is 85% ethanol !!!

This is a BIG difference...

[grampaws]

Ford and GM have been manufacturing Flex fuel vehicles for
years..The 4.0 and 3.0 six cylinder fords have flex fuel capabilities..
check owners manuals..They alter the tuning to accomodate the
different fuels and this occurs as you drive..If the ethanol damaged seals
I would expect the present 10% ethanol fuels would have had these
problems already..I would expect retuning would be the biggest hurdle
to using fuels with higher ethanol content..

[MENINBLK]

Ford and GM have been manufacturing Flex fuel vehicles for
years..The 4.0 and 3.0 six cylinder fords have flex fuel capabilities..
check owners manuals..They alter the tuning to accomodate the
different fuels and this occurs as you drive..If the ethanol damaged seals
I would expect the present 10% ethanol fuels would have had these
problems already..I would expect retuning would be the biggest hurdle
to using fuels with higher ethanol content..

Ethanol is not the problem.

Methanol is the problem.
But Methanol is not present in either MTBE, Ethanol, or E-85.
Older Dry Gas products used Methanol and that is what you need to watch out for.

Retuning is necessary because you require more fuel volume when using E-85 for the same BTU output.

[SergntMac]

This "10 percent Ethanol" mix has been the rule here in Chicago for over 20 years, and I've never had a problem with it in a dozen automobiles.

At age 14, my father showed me how to add a pint of Isopropyl Alcohol to a full tank of gas, and I continue to do so once a month (every 4th fill up) for 40 years now. He taught me that the alcohol absorbs condensation from my tank, as well as the underground tanks at the gas station, and moves it through the combustion process. Can't say it's true, I'm not an engineer, but I still believe this today.

Happy motoring, gents.

[grampaws]

http://www.ethanolrfa.org/objects/pdf/AboutRFA/Gasoline.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85#Air_Fuel_Ratio_comparison

That is true Methanol does have some characteristics
that can be detrimental to fuel systems...
The problem with Ethanol at this time is low production
and an increased demand due to MTBE regulations...
this is driving prices up..All auto manufacturers approve
and even recommend Ethanol blended fuels..
If a vehicle has been tuned using MTBE fuel it might need
to be retuned for Ethanol blended fuel..

[grampaws]

This "10 percent Ethanol" mix has been the rule here in Chicago for over 20 years, and I've never had a problem with it in a dozen automobiles.

At age 14, my father showed me how to add a pint of Isopropyl Alcohol to a full tank of gas, and I continue to do so once a month (every 4th fill up) for 40 years now. He taught me that the alcohol absorbs condensation from my tank, as well as the underground tanks at the gas station, and moves it through the combustion process. Can't say it's true, I'm not an engineer, but I still believe this today.

Happy motoring, gents.

Ethanol does this already--this is a redundant exercise..

[metroplex]

The Big 3 do have many FFV capable vehicles, but you're not driving one (Marauder). Conversion kits must be EPA certified or something like that, but it is STUPID to mandate a change to E85 across the board. That will force everyone to either buy new cars or retrofit existing cars.

New injectors = $300-$400
New fuel pump = $100
New programming so your engine doesn't detonate to death if you accidentally filled up on E10 = $???