Non Intercooled Supercharger Kit

[maraudernkc]

Would any members be interested in a kit that would add 100 RWHP for 3499.99. This would use a Procharger Blower but would not use an Intercooler.It will still whine!:)

It would be a low boost low RWHP kit. It could be upgraded down the road.

I am just thinking out loud at the present moment.

Let me know you thoughts.

[SergntMac]

Sounds like a great start on building power, Greg, I presume an intercooler can be added at a later time?

What comes with the kit?

[HwyCruiser]

Greg and I were kicking around a low-boost ProCharger application before I went whole hog on the intercooled version when he came out with his opening day special. I'm glad I did, but this is a great way for someone to start with and grow into one heck of a fast car.

[Cobra25]

Sounds like a great way for those a little short on cash to get a nice start. They can always add on as time goes by.

[snowbird]

... ...
Let me know you thoughts.
Greg,

IMO, a really great idea for an entry kit. As the 2-3 years Marauders will start to change hands, the seconds hands buyers might want, from a limited budget, to win the bang for the buck contest.

Also, they could upgrade later on, as $$$ permit, with an intercooler or go like some Lidio's customer, from Alternative, by using a methanol injection kit to do the cooling task.:rolleyes:

Edit: The Procharger kit could be made very "modular" in nature, in par with the engine philosophy !

[hitchhiker]

IMHO, I can't see spending $1,500 less than the Trilogy kit and still wanting the Trilogy kit. There simply is no substitute.

Regards,

Dave

:D

[natedog1284]

I would definately be interested in such a kit, especially if it was upgradeable. Keep us posted.

[HwyCruiser]

IMHO, I can't see spending $1,500 less than the Trilogy kit and still wanting the Trilogy kit. There simply is no substitute.

Regards,

Dave

:D


Zzzzzing! Nice one. :sleepy:

[Zack]

Greg, you are risking your business by offering a non-intercooled kit.
Do what you want, but stick to what works best.

[Joe Walsh]

True, But thinking out loud...What does a top notch Snow Performance Methanol injection system run???

I would run an intercooler AND a Snow Performance kit, but if you HAD to have a S/C kit cheap...this would be a viable option until the funds were available for an intercooler...

[MI2QWK4U]

True, But thinking out loud...What does a top notch Snow Performance Methanol injection system run???

I would run an intercooler AND a Snow Performance kit, but if you HAD to have a S/C kit cheap...this would be a viable option until the funds were available for an intercooler...


Thats actually not a bad idea. However when I priced out a methanol kit I was looking at about $1200-$1300. That would include the Kit, Installation, and most importantly the tuning to go with it. The tuning is most important since you are dependant on the methanol to avoid detonation. Not worth it in my opinion.

[TooManyFords]

I say DO IT! I can't tell you how many times I kicked it at a light and when it was all done I only went about 5psi positive. Sure I had more headroom, but it was over by then.

At 5psi, the intercooler isn't really needed to be safe either. For every supercharged marauder there are at lease 20 vortec powered 5.0 mustangs running no more than 5psi and they don't have intercoolers either.

The cool thing is that you can upgrade to more boost and an intercooler at a later date.

Good thing I got $4K for my used kit before you offered this! <grin!>

Now if you could just get us a GB on those Shiny Hineys for my differential install next week.

Cheers!

John

[HwyCruiser]

You would definately have run lower boost without an intercooler. I imagine you could probably run a 4.0" pulley, maxing out at 5 psi or so, without an intercooler to keep the inlet air temperature within reason at full boost.

Looking at some charts on the web, that's about 75 degrees F above ambient outside air temperature at full boost (compression heat + supercharger heat + engine compartment soak heat). According to the ProCharger site they don't recommend exceeding 5 psi of boost for non-intercooled centrifugal blower on a 10:1 compression engine anyway.

http://www.procharger.com/intercooled.shtml

Still, 5 psi would be a nice kick in the pants. The tune would just have to be set up to pull more timing out as the inlet air temperature started to get up there on hotter days, but this might be a budget option in milder climates. I'm sure the intercooler upgrade would soon follow though. Boost is just too addicting.

[maraudernkc]

Dave, this kit would be $2500.00 cheaper than a Trilogy.



IMHO, I can't see spending $1,500 less than the Trilogy kit and still wanting the Trilogy kit. There simply is no substitute.

Regards,

Dave

:D

[maraudernkc]

That will be comming very soon!


I say DO IT! I can't tell you how many times I kicked it at a light and when it was all done I only went about 5psi positive. Sure I had more headroom, but it was over by then.

At 5psi, the intercooler isn't really needed to be safe either. For every supercharged marauder there are at lease 20 vortec powered 5.0 mustangs running no more than 5psi and they don't have intercoolers either.

The cool thing is that you can upgrade to more boost and an intercooler at a later date.

Good thing I got $4K for my used kit before you offered this! <grin!>

Now if you could just get us a GB on those Shiny Hineys for my differential install next week.

Cheers!

John

[snowbird]

True, But thinking out loud...What does a top notch Snow Performance Methanol injection system run???

I would run an intercooler AND a Snow Performance kit, but if you HAD to have a S/C kit cheap...this would be a viable option until the funds were available for an intercooler...
Joe,

A Snow kit is about 400$. I do run both and still experimenting to stay on the safe side. I agree with you that on the long run, the buyer would want to upgrade both or at least the intercooler.

The really nice thing about Greg's idea is that it could be made steps by steps for the customer... a lot easier to manage budget wise.

[magindat]

I think it's a good idea. My suggestion would be to add the Dennis Reinhart type rear driver's head cooling mod to the kit to help the cooling system tote away the increased heat. I think that would bring 5-6 PSI into the safe zone without increasing the cost of the kit.

[KillJoy]

Hell, go for it. If I hadn't just ordered a s/c, I would be interested.

Make there be several stages. Like Blower Only, then Blower w/ small IC, and then a Blower w/ large IC.

I also agree w/ Magindat.....if there is no IC, add the Head Cooling Mod!

Just a though.

KillJoy

[juno]

It's a great idea. 100 hp with a nice safe tune for that price! I think a lot of people will be happy with the 100 hp. Plus a pretty simple install. And they can always upgrade!!!

[Zack]

Hell, go for it. If I hadn't just ordered a s/c, I would be interested.

Make there be several stages. Like Blower Only, then Blower w/ small IC, and then a Blower w/ large IC.

I also agree w/ Magindat.....if there is no IC, add the Head Cooling Mod!

Just a though.

KillJoy

Dude, lets install your blower at BArrys in June.
Im getting there on thursday morning. We will be done by midnight!
What do ya say?

[KillJoy]

I was actually wanting to get it DONE by then. I guess I COULD wait. However, We were not planning on getting there until early Staruday Morning. Possibly Friday Night, but arrangements for that have not yet been made.

I would love to have you help, though! Any other thoughts???

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

Friday night blower party at Barry's...I LOVE IT!

[MarauderTJA]

Great idea Greg. It offers more choices for everyone with the capability to upgrade later on. 100 RWHP is a substanial increase from stock.

[maraudernkc]

Zack, I must disagree with you. I think that there are customers out there who might only want to run 5PSI and 100RWHP and be satasfied at a fraction of the cost.


Greg, you are risking your business by offering a non-intercooled kit.
Do what you want, but stick to what works best.

[bigslim]

Greg, I would like to know how would these kits be in hotter climates? Also, once the engine gets heat-soaked how will it effect performance. I have seen non-intercooled blowers become ineffectived when they get hot. Thank you for your response in advance.

[rayjay]

If the kit will work on a daily driver in the winter, I'm interested. The air filter needs to be protected for winter use due to salt/sand/stone dust, crud used on roads in the winter here.

[snowbird]

If the kit will work on a daily driver in the winter, I'm interested. The air filter needs to be protected for winter use due to salt/sand/stone dust, crud used on roads in the winter here.
Rayjay,

I have used my car as a daily since last summer and i live a couple hundreds miles northeast from your area. No problem from minus 25 to over + 100F. My air filter is open over the top of the air suspension compressor and he did is job flawlessly (i guess he wasn't too happy about it!). I do plan to make a box out of aluminum as time will permit.

I did let the engine warm up a little in the morning as an extra care measure (30 sec to 1 min) and driven the first 2-3 miles with very light load.

[rayjay]

Rayjay,

I have used my car as a daily since last summer and i live a couple hundreds miles northeast from your area. No problem from minus 25 to over + 100F. My air filter is open over the top of the air suspension compressor and he did is job flawlessly (i guess he wasn't too happy about it!). I do plan to make a box out of aluminum as time will permit.

I did let the engine warm up a little in the morning as an extra care measure (30 sec to 1 min) and driven the first 2-3 miles with very light load.

Thats good to know, my larger concern is the amount of crud that gets up in the engine bay during the winter from constant dumping of ice control materials. I reinstall the OEM airbox for winter use.

[DirtyDog]

I thought this option was needed from the beginning, go for it. Wives will go for it to save money and the upgrade of the cooler can be bought with beer money.

[maraudernkc]

bigslim, as you know when you compress air it heats up. When you add a Intercooler it reduces the IAT and you can run more boost. When running an Intercooler you also have alot more 90 degree bends to make the intercooler fit the application which creates more heat.

With no Intercooler there would be almost no tubing to run and the boost would be half of what we run on our intercooled applacicaton.

The non-intercooled application will get heat soaked if you run them one run after another but so will a intercooled version. Just to a lessor degree.

This would be such a simple kit and priced right.


Greg, I would like to know how would these kits be in hotter climates? Also, once the engine gets heat-soaked how will it effect performance. I have seen non-intercooled blowers become ineffectived when they get hot. Thank you for your response in advance.

[rayjay]

This would be such a simple kit and priced right.

Greg, would it be simple enough that I could remove it seasonally if needed? I'm thinking this kit would be good for someone like me who will probably never take their car to the track, but wants the extra power for playing.

[ADE 1000]

Interested.

[LVMarauder]

This sounds like a great idea. Of course the high psi intercooled are better and can run more boost but this will get the job done and be a hell of a lot cheaper than whats out there now. Nothing wrong with trying things that haven't been done before.

[BillyGman]

Greg, you are risking your business by offering a non-intercooled kit.
Do what you want, but stick to what works best. WELL SAID ZACK! I agree with Zack on this 100%

I was going to stay out of this thread even though I was thinking exactly what Zack has stated above, because I know how some of the centrifugal S/Cer fans on here react in such a negative way whenever I try to say something constructive in this forum, simply because I'm a fan of roots blowers. But since Zack has already stated what I believe is true, and he is one of you centrifugal S/Cer enthusiasts himself, then there shouldn't be any issues that people will have with me writing this post....

I think you guys are flirting with disaster to even be thinking of installing ANY type of S/Cer that isn't intercooled in an engine that has a 10.0:1 compression ratio like the Marauder has. Can you say "Detonation"???

Greg, I truly have no ill intentions towards you nor to your business by writing this post. With all due respect to you sir, and for the sake of your potential customers, I strongly suggest that you forget about this idea. And if you cannot accept that suggestion coming from me, then atleast accept it coming from Zack who is also a mechanic as well. I repeat, this is a bad idea for a 10 to 1 compression ratio engine, and one that's in such a heavy car to boot!!! This is a perfect formula for a high potential for pinging which is the number one killer of Supercharged engines. If you guys who want to do this don't have the money to do it right, then don't do it at all. Wait until you do have the money for Greg's intercooled S/Cer kit. You really don't want to half-step with this.

Okay, my conscience is clear, and I've done what I could. I'll stay out of this thread now, and Greg can delete my post if he sees any reason for taking such an action, but this post is laced with nothing but well intentions on my part, just as I'm sure that Zack's post was too.

[prchrman]

Sounds pretty good...do you have any numbers to compare numbers for non vs IC charger for heat soak and boost?...it might help to settle some people's fears if they could see some hard data...I'm not criticizing mind you...just thinking out loud myself...willie

[maraudernkc]

Billy, do you really think that we are just going to throw a whole bunch of timing at a non intercooled sytem? You will blow your motor on a supercharged sytem with a improperly tuned car. We base our tunes off of IAT and other vaules. Don't try and scare people off from a low RWHP, low cost and easy istallation option. Your are talking about $1000.00's of dollars less money. Not everyone needs to have your kit or our intercooled kit.

A 100RWHP would be plenty for alot of folks.

Billy, why would I delete your thread?

This thread is for people that do not have blowers and might have some interest in a much lower cost option for there Marauder.

Billy, are you one of those members?





WELL SAID ZACK! I agree with Zack on this 100%

I was going to stay out of this thread even though I was thinking exactly what Zack has stated above, because I know how some of the centrifugal S/Cer fans on here react in such a negative way whenever I try to say something constructive in this forum, simply because I'm a fan of roots blowers. But since Zack has already stated what I believe is true, and he is one of you centrifugal S/Cer enthusiasts himself, then there shouldn't be any issues that people will have with me writing this post....

I think you guys are flirting with disaster to even be thinking of installing ANY type of S/Cer that isn't intercooled in an engine that has a 10.0:1 compression ratio like the Marauder has. Can you say "Detonation"???

Greg, I truly have no ill intentions towards you nor to your business by writing this post. With all due respect to you sir, and for the sake of your potential customers, I strongly suggest that you forget about this idea. And if you cannot accept that suggestion coming from me, then atleast accept it coming from Zack who is also a mechanic as well. I repeat, this is a bad idea for a 10 to 1 compression ratio engine, and one that's in such a heavy car to boot!!! This is a perfect formula for a high potential for pinging which is the number one killer of Supercharged engines. If you guys who want to do this don't have the money to do it right, then don't do it at all. Wait until you do have the money for Greg's intercooled S/Cer kit. You really don't want to half-step with this.

Okay, my conscience is clear, and I've done what I could. I'll stay out of this thread now, and Greg can delete my post if he sees any reason for taking such an action, but this post is laced with nothing but well intentions on my part, just as I'm sure that Zack's post was too.

[sabtaj1]

I am still interested. waiting to hear how the testing goes!!!

[juno]

Other centrifugals and the the leader in positive displacement blowers (KB)offer non intercooled kits. Lots of OEM cars included non-intercooled superchargers. The intercooler allows you to add boost, but lack of an intercooler does not preclude boost.

I for one would like to see the numbers for the non-intercooled kit. They might be pretty surprising on these free-breathing motors.

There is no reason a safely tuned non-intercooled kit could make enough power to satisfy many folks. It may even be close to some of the other stock intercooled kits available.

EDIT: If you could put down 360 to 380 to the wheels, that's 450-480 at the flywheel. How many cars make that? You will surprise the poop out of many stock hemi's, no matter how big. For under 3800? That and a torque converter and you are low 13's, maybe better with practice. Definitely worth the testing.

[Tallboy]

Other centrifugals and the the leader in positive displacement blowers (KB)offer non intercooled kits. Lots of OEM cars included non-intercooled superchargers. The intercooler allows you to add boost, but lack of an intercooler does not preclude boost.

I for one would like to see the numbers for the non-intercooled kit. They might be pretty surprising on these free-breathing motors.

There is no reason a safely tuned non-intercooled kit could make enough power to satisfy many folks. It may even be close to some of the other stock intercooled kits available.

Uh, the "leader" in positive displacement blowers is a company called "Eaton."

[SergntMac]

Uh, the "leader" in positive displacement blowers is a company called "Eaton." Man Oh Man, c'mon Chuck, really. Why do we have to go back here?

Y'all...Yes, there are more Eaton blowers out on the street in OEM applications, and more than any other supercharger ever, period. Old news, K?

Eatons are out there because they are the most often selected supercharger by OEMs building cars for public consumption. But...Turn to the race pages my friend, which is where most of us read performance news, and what do you read?

You read that supercharging (at large) runs neck and neck against turbocharging, both of which use centrifugal chargers, and inside supercharging circles, ProCharger and Vortech lead the pack while the rest of the dogs sit on the porch.

How many positive displacement superchargers have made the mags? How many have won their class in Renegrade and Outlaw? Hell, every swinging
d!ck with a '03-'04 Cobra who wants more performance has opted-out of the OEM Eaton for the Kenne Bell twin screw. Their choices are telling, Hell again, isn't Jerry/Trilogy exploring this same upgrade for his Marauder customers?

This choice here, a non-intercooled ProCharger kit, is all about "bang for the buck". Adding 100some RWHP for roughly 3500 bucks, is something to consider for the low-buck/mild performance minded MM owner. And, it can be done safely, just like it was done before intercooling was a science all it's own.

Yes, the boost will be mild, the IATs will be higher, but none of this is more dangerous to any N/A Marauder engine than NOS on a bone-stock MM, and all the other crap we enjoy trying to keep speed cheap.

BTW, Marauder engines have a 52cc combustion chamber, which means that compression is really 9.8:1, not 10.1:1, but I digress. My point is that all of this seems no big deal anyway, we're talking about stock MM engines from the same compression neighborhood, yes?

4-6 PSI of non-intercooled boost is as safe as anything else we toy with, such as combinations of UD pulleys, torque converters, cooler spark plugs, thermostats, and so on and so on. Anything we can do without cracking open the engine, spending a lot of money, or taking a lot of risks.

This offer of a mild upgrade to a specific power point, is no more dangerous than anything else we have experimented with to date, and at roughly 3500 bucks, it seems quite a deal, IMHO.

I'm considering this ProCharger investment myself, addng this kit to my bone stock #3 MM just for the fun of it, and driving to work everyday and kicking azz at every stoplight. Around me, it's very rare that these contests get into 6K RPM, or, 3rd gear, I think this will be a great mod for guys like me who enjoy dusting off some bodacious challengers who made their own choice in automobiles, but can't give it up to the truth...I win.

Just my .02c gents, carry on...

[Tallboy]

Man Oh Man, c'mon Chuck, really. Why do we have to go back here?


Was what I posted incorrect?

Should I have called my fleet manager?

[magindat]

6 PSI of boost non-intercooled is STANDARD for ricers. Most hondas do not even need programming to handle that amount of boost. Granted they are not as high compression, but OTOH they run in the higher RPM's and more often.

I think it's safe when tuned right, even in S. Florida. I'm not scared to be the one to prove it.

[SergntMac]

Should I have called my fleet manager? A gentleman would have checked with the home office. James Bond always called...

[MikesMerc]

A 4-6 PSI non intercooled blower on a Marauder would be a waste of time. Its simply lots of money for very little gain.

You are all missing a very important point in Supercharger 101. On centrifugal blowers that make 4-6 psi, where do they make that 4-6 psi? That's right, the very top end. A blower making 4 PSI at an engine RPM of 5500 rpm isn't making squat for boost below 4500. The 6 PSI isn't much better either. Remember, centrifugal boost build up is NOT linear, its exponential. A 6 PSI kits will make zero boost below 4000, and maybe, just maybe 1 to 2 under 5000. I know cause I've had a 6 PSI centrifugal blower.

So, in effect, what you are doing by spooling down the boost on a centrifugal blower is making the down side of centrifugal blowers (no low end, and limited mid rpm power) even worse. And your doing it with a HEAVY car. Doh!

Worse yet, ignoring the non existent boost in the mid to low end with a slow spinning centrifugal, you'll need to retard the timing to prevent detonation with non intercooled boost.

Combine low boost and limp timing on a heavy car. Need I say more?



Other centrifugals and the the leader in positive displacement blowers (KB)offer non intercooled kits.

Yes, they do. And how many of these kits have you tried personally? I suspect I know they answer. None.

On the other hand, I have. The non intercooled KB kit is JUNK. How many times do we have to cover this? The only reason KB sells the crap is that they are looking for the bait n switch. They advertise a low price stripped down kit. But, when you do your research, you find HUGE limitations in power production due to low boost and super wimpy tunes that keep the motor from detonating in the summer. I know first hand. Been there, done that. The truth is that the KB kits only became popular after they integrated a by pass and intercooler into thier kits.

I also ran a non intercooled, internal belt driven Powerdyne SC. It made little to no power in the low and mid range, but provided a nice kick on top. Worked okay for a light 3200lb mustang notch. But it would be waaaay to wimpy on a 4300lb marauder.

I also ran a Vortech S-Trim. It made 12 PSI, also non intercooled. Better than the powerdyne, but so much timing needed to come out on hot days, and it needed to be run so pig rich, that power gains were only modest at best.


Lots of OEM cars included non-intercooled superchargers. The intercooler allows you to add boost, but lack of an intercooler does not preclude boost.

This is actually VERY innacurate. By far, most boosted application from the factory are indeed inter cooled...whether turbo or SC. Can you cite examples of "Lots" of non intercooled OEM applications?


There is no reason a safely tuned non-intercooled kit could make enough power to satisfy many folks. It may even be close to some of the other stock intercooled kits available

Not a chance. Maybe in the north in the winter, but never in summer in the south.





supercharging circles, ProCharger and Vortech lead the pack while the rest of the dogs sit on the porch.

Sorry, but the lysholm based kits are clearly the new darlings of the SC world. Yes, centrifugal based compressors can make the most absolute boost, but this "rule" has been relegated to the high end race world where 20 PSI is just for starters. On the street/strip, its the lysholms....period.




Yes, the boost will be mild, the IATs will be higher, but none of this is more dangerous to any N/A Marauder engine than NOS on a bone-stock MM, and all the other crap we enjoy trying to keep speed cheap.


Mac, frankly I am shocked to hear you say this. Comparing mild, non intercooled boost to a mild shot of NOS is apples to oranges and couldn't be further from the truth.

The mild non intercooled blower will pump HOT air into the motor. Timing will need to be significantly retarded do to the high IATs. It'll also be run pig rich. The safe tune will need to adjusted to compensated for the HOT aircharge. In other words, the tune will be set up to remove power because of the excess heat.

Nitrous, on the other hand, does NOT produce detonation inherently. As long as you have enough fuel to match the extra O2 being released by the nitrous, you are good to go. You don't need extra fuel to cool the hot intake charge. In fact, nitrous makes things nice and cold. The only reason you pull timing with NOS is simply based on power levels and a safe tune.

Bottom line, a safe NOS tune will run great in all conditions, while a non intercooled SC application can begin to detonate under hot conditions. Comparing them isn't even close.


Wow is all I have to say here. The thought this debate even is taking place is frightening. Its like going back 10 years in SC technology.

EDIT- I would like to add that I am not criticizing Greg at all for making this offer. The other SC companies are doing it too to be able to offer the right price point. I don't blame Greg for joining in that. I only state what I know based on my personal hands on experience with many SC kits over the years in an effort to help the end users. I've been down the non intercooled road before and I was less than satisfied every time.

[bigslim]

Nicely said Mike. I could not have said it any better.

[Mike M]

If not for any other reason then the responses here....Do it!

My car pulls like crazy at 5-6 PSI!

[snowbird]

Now, i'm taking the chance to come in .... hope i will survive ....

I have one of the few intercooled kit and i'm not racing it because there's no track around. My car is a daily 12 months a year over a 120 F temp spread. I have only one car. So my goal is simple get the most while staying very safe. I do enjoy spirited driving on the street. Using between 0 and 5-6 pounds on the street will get you very deep in most condition for qualification on a citation or/and anti-social behavior right off the bat. It"s that fast. It will be a winning on a streetlight over 90% of the time.

The point is: That kit must be considered as a nice alternative. Now, the tuning: It is of course maybe half the deal on the setup/tune side. The other half is your right foot. Know and control your right foot and let the engine cool between cycle and you should be OK. Be it intercooled or not, forged or not.

I wish the Eaton's people wouldn't be so insecure. 9 out of ten sale in the Marauder segment is the Eaton kit. So tell me without a smile in your face that you have, and will sleep with the same women each and every day of your life and that you want that same model to be universal for the rest of the world. The FIT kits are just that ==> those others womens for the one who would like to explore different curves !! How easy is that to understand ?!! :)

[Tallboy]

Now, i'm taking the chance to come in .... hope i will survive ....

I have one of the few intercooled kit and i'm not racing it because there's no track around. My car is a daily 12 months a year over a 120 F temp spread. I have only one car. So my goal is simple get the most while staying very safe. I do enjoy spirited driving on the street. Using between 0 and 5-6 pounds on the street will get you very deep in most condition for qualification on a citation or/and anti-social behavior right off the bat. It"s that fast. It will be a winning on a streetlight over 90% of the time.

The point is: That kit must be considered as a nice alternative. Now, the tuning: It is of course maybe half the deal on the setup/tune side. The other half is your right foot. Know and control your right foot and let the engine cool between cycle and you should be OK. Be it intercooled or not, forged or not.

I wish the Eaton's people wouldn't be so insecure. 9 out of ten sale in the Marauder segment is the Eaton kit. So tell me without a smile in your face that you have, and will sleep with the same women each and every day of your life and that you want that same model to be universal for the rest of the world. The FIT kits are just that ==> those others womens for the one who would like to explore different curves !! How easy is that to understand ?!! :)

5-6 PSI will get you going nicely. When you're only spinning your blower and engine at 50% capacity. Imagine having to go all the way to the top to get the same amount?

"Eaton's people insecure?" Uh, no.

Sleep with the same woman my whole life? If she's a "Trilogy" [comparitively speaking] when compared to the other women out there? Absolutely.

[O's Fan Rich]

Sleep with the same woman my whole life?] when compared to the other women out there? Absolutely.


Yes Dear, I agree with Chuck!!!
Of course, Darling, of course!!!

[Tallboy]

Yes Dear, I agree with Chuck!!!
Of course, Darling, of course!!!

I've met your wife.

Good call.:up:

[bigslim]

Now, i'm taking the chance to come in .... hope i will survive ....

I have one of the few intercooled kit and i'm not racing it because there's no track around. My car is a daily 12 months a year over a 120 F temp spread. I have only one car. So my goal is simple get the most while staying very safe. I do enjoy spirited driving on the street. Using between 0 and 5-6 pounds on the street will get you very deep in most condition for qualification on a citation or/and anti-social behavior right off the bat. It"s that fast. It will be a winning on a streetlight over 90% of the time.

The point is: That kit must be considered as a nice alternative. Now, the tuning: It is of course maybe half the deal on the setup/tune side. The other half is your right foot. Know and control your right foot and let the engine cool between cycle and you should be OK. Be it intercooled or not, forged or not.

I wish the Eaton's people wouldn't be so insecure. 9 out of ten sale in the Marauder segment is the Eaton kit. So tell me without a smile in your face that you have, and will sleep with the same women each and every day of your life and that you want that same model to be universal for the rest of the world. The FIT kits are just that ==> those others womens for the one who would like to explore different curves !! How easy is that to understand ?!! :)
That may be true. But if you have 5pds of "NON' intercooled boost you have to keep the timing lower. This translates to lower performance of a non-intercooled MM.

Also, no insecurity here. I have no problem with my kit or anyone elses. I have seen them all run and run well.

By the way, Trilogy; translates to "Pretty Women".
The other kits; you need a drink to date. :lol:

[Hotrauder]

No insecurity here. I watched, listened, read. Made a decision on the parameters I wanted and didn't want. Rode with to confirm and asked the questions. I knew which kit I wanted and who I wanted to install it. That decision was easy for me because I knew what I didn't want from my observations of all the kits. I don't for a minute think that my decision is the right one for anyone else, just the perfect one for me. I highly recommend my kit to anyone who wants what I wanted. Marriage may not be the best analogy but I do plan to spend the rest of my life sleeping near my FruitPunch #110. Dennis:drink:

Greg, should have read the posts from the begining not just the last couple. Sorry about the hi-jack. Dennis

[Mike M]

Maybe...but it would be a REAL FAST Crack Ho!!!!

Again Greg...do the kit! More options for people are always a good thing, 5-6 PSI
makes a BIG difference. I just drove my car yesterday and did several 5-6 PSI launces...WOW!

[BillyGman]

If not for any other reason then the responses here....Do it!

My car pulls like crazy at 5-6 PSI!Uhmm, and isn't it intercooled??? :rolleyes:

[BillyGman]

Other centrifugals and the the leader in positive displacement blowers (KB)offer non intercooled kits. Lots of OEM cars included non-intercooled superchargers. Not many OEM set-ups offer non-intercooled S/Cers anymore. Your info must be outdated. And NONE of them EVER offered it with a 10.0:1 compression ratio like we have in our Marauders. before you argue with me, please get your facts straight. You can spend your money but don't spread misinformation around for others. I'm sure that isn't your intentions, but your statements only uncover half truths.

[MikesMerc]

I wish the Eaton's people wouldn't be so insecure. 9 out of ten sale in the Marauder segment is the Eaton kit.

I don't think the posting by Trilogy guys is insecurity, its more like knowledge. These guys tend to do their homework.

For me, blower brand has nothing to do with it either. I'm not sure about everyone else, but, like I said earlier, I've owned a number of supercharged cars with aftermarket blowers so I speak from personal experience. Mutliple brands, multiple set ups. Centrifugal or roots doesn't really matter, intercooled is the only way anyone should go with a 4300lb car.

For a roots or a screw, its a friggin must. These blowers cannot be run without an intercooler if you want any reasonable performance. Centrifugals, which are more efficient (yes I said that), can get by....BUT with much lower boost numbers, retarded timing, fatter AFRs, a bigger chance for detonation, and a generally soggy low end. I've been there, and I know. More than once. In fact, it makes me wonder how much real experience those that "support" the idea of a non intercooled SC really have with these kinds of set ups. No offense, just making a point that some of us have done this before while others have not. I'm not sure if extensive hands on experience counts or not.

I'm not saying the idea of a non inter cooled kit totally sucks. But I am saying the idea of a non intercooled SC on a heavy car is far far far from optimal...regardless of the price. This isn't about FIT. This is about intercoolers. If you want greg's kit, I'm just saying the full inter cooled version is the only way to go. Pricepoint be damned.

Zack and I don't agree on much but I think he nailed it in his first post on the thread.

I meant no disrespect to the FIT guys, or anyone else that thinks differently. I've just been down this path before and I like to share what I've learned the hard way.

[MikesMerc]

5-6 PSI will get you going nicely. When you're only spinning your blower and engine at 50% capacity. Imagine having to go all the way to the top to get the same amount?


Bingo. He is not using a real comparison. When you are pullied for max boost at 6 psi, everything is different in the mid range. The tippy top rush is fun, but its very brief.

I suggest someone look at a dyno sheet with the PSI curve shown with a max of 6 psi at 5800-6000. You'd be lucky to see 2 psi at 4k.

Well...that's that. Good luck with what everyone decides.

[BillyGman]

This thread is for people that do not have blowers and might have some interest in a much lower cost option for there Marauder.

Billy, are you one of those members? And what about Zack? He's implied atleast part of what I've stated, and he already has a S/Ced Marauder too. And what he has stated should be well received, since his words made perfect sense. But because he is a centrifugal S/Cer customer, and not a roots S/Cer customer like I am, what he stated is okay, right?

But you balk at what I've stated simply because of my choice of S/Cers. I knew this would happen. Why can't people simply weigh the content of someone's post for what it's worth, and on face value without looking at who's customer that person is, or who's customer he isn't? Again, Zack was the first person who pointed out a warning about your idea in this thread, and I simply am backing up what he stated, because I know that what he has stated is wise, and that his words had some weight.

If you have a problem with that, then I'm sorry, but it wasn't meant to hurt your biz in any way. I have better things to do than to go out of my way to attempt to disrupt your biz even if I wanted to. But I will go out of my way to help out my fellow Marauder owners just as many of them have gone out of their way to help me too. And that's the only intent there was to my post, like it or nor Greg. And if potential S/cer customers are smart, they would want to hear from people who have some experience driving S/ced cars, and who have also installed S/cers. Once again, the Trilogy customers are the bad guys even though what they say is in full agreement to what some of the centrifugal customers have stated. Why is that??? Do you really feel that threatened by us??? And if so, then why??? :rolleyes:

[Mike M]

Greg, now I am really sure you should do it.

[BillyGman]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Mielnicki
If not for any other reason then the responses here....Do it!

My car pulls like crazy at 5-6 PSI!

Uhmm, and isn't it intercooled??? :rolleyes:

[HwyCruiser]

Forced induction is going to increase volumemetric efficiency, period. The more air and fuel you can pump through the engine the higher the hp gain. This isn't an all or nothing game here.

Modular centrifugal supercharger kits are nothing new either. A "stage 1" kit would typically be just the blower, "stage 2" kit adds an intercooler, and "stage 3" kit adds fuel and air upgrades. Each allows more boost. If the budget is a concern, then why can't this be done in stages?

[snowbird]

To all who reacted to my previous number 47 post,

After posting, i went for a few beers and was still laughing about some of your answers at bar entry. Thanks !

The majority were valid arguments based on a lot of research and experience and should help for the evolution of things in that matter. I,m still a novice and do not pretend otherwise.

Of course, i don't see a non intercooled kit as a final answer (i do use both: the intercooler and methanol injection even if i live in Santa Claus backyard). My point was just that having an non-I entry kit as a start, could be interesting.

[RoyLPita]

So......let me guess on what is deleted on this kit:
intercooler w/ plumbing,
injectors (maybe 30lb'rs),
fuel pump,
8# + pullies,
larger maf.

Did I miss anything?

[Mad4Macs]

:popcorn: :popcorn:

[MikesMerc]

Modular centrifugal supercharger kits are nothing new either. A "stage 1" kit would typically be just the blower, "stage 2" kit adds an intercooler, and "stage 3" kit adds fuel and air upgrades. Each allows more boost. If the budget is a concern, then why can't this be done in stages?

It certainly can be done in stages. But its a matter of how happy the end user will be with a "stage 1" non intercooled slow spun centrifugal blower on a very heavy car. Its not simply about the idea of being modular, its about the intended application as well.

There is no doubt that there will be some power gains with a non inter cooled kit. But, you have to ask the question whether the power gains will be worth the money. Who cares if you pick up 100 hp on your peak number when all the power addition comes in the last 1000 rpm. Unless you plan on driving along at 5000 rpm all the time you'll never see boost. Worse yet, every shift point will bring you back out of the boost. A low boost set up will obviously provide a small punch way up top, but is that minimal gain worth $3500??

Like I said, I've been here. I was disappointed with both of my non intercooled set ups until I turned up the wick on my S Trim to run 12 PSI. I did that effectively non inter cooled by commiting to run race gas all the time (race gas mitigates detonation and i was able to run good timing in the tune).

Again, I'm not saying it cannot be done. I'm not saying some power gains cannot be had for less money than the full kit. All I'm saying is that its not worth the money at that point. Its better to save up a little more money and get the complete kit. For 20% for money, you'll get a 60% improvement.

And all of that ignores the point that the likelihood of detonation (our worst enemy) goes waaaay up in a non inter cooled kit. Ambient temps become much more of an issue (much more so than on inter cooled kits which are also effected by ambient temps). If you have to worry about things on a hot day, is it worth it?

Like I said, I think Greg should meet customer demand. I'm not criticizing Greg, or any other company, that offers non inter cooled kits. They do it to sell hardware. They do it to meet entry level price points. That's fine. I also think that someone will indeed be able to strap on a low boost non intercooled kit and feel some power gains. No doubt there. The reality, though, is it will not be as satisfying as they might think it was going to be after spending a few thousand dollars. For a little more money they would have received a lot more performance (and peace of mind).

Also, I'll say it again, this has nothing to do with supercharger brand. If Jerry offered a cheaper non inter cooled kit in his forum I'd say the say damn thing....not to mention I'd drive straight to his house and slap him:D

[HwyCruiser]

If done in stages then, the components bought previously are still employed in the next stage. No wasted money, simply piecing a system together and enjoying the effects on the way.

I wouldn't be suprised the "stage 1" wound up running less than 6 psi. Because of its straight impeller design the P1-SC provides linear boost so there is no need to drive at 6000 rpm to feel the powa.

[MERCMAN]

A gentleman would have checked with the home office. James Bond always called...

Perhaps he should have checked the actuarial tables before posting :rofl::banana:

[SergntMac]

If done in stages then, the components bought previously are still employed in the next stage. No wasted money, simply piecing a system together and enjoying the effects on the way.

I wouldn't be suprised the "stage 1" wound up running less than 6 psi. Because of its straight impeller design the P1-SC provides linear boost so there is no need to drive at 6000 rpm to feel the powa. Indeed.

I think there is a fine line between sharing caution and concern over a topic, and flat out beating it to death. Thank you all for all the relevant facts, some very good 411 has been shared. Potential customers should know all the benefits and draw backs by now, all this caution and doubt needs to be tailored back.

I bought my first MM in June of 2002. As I matured into a performance minded owner, I bought mods, mostly from the one and only vendor present here at the time. First it was a "Stage 1" kit, consisting of 4:10 gears, an early SCT computer chip with Mark VIII tuning, 180 t-stat and Denso plugs. BTW, I'm the one who coined it a "Stage 1" kit. Many hours of dyno time with Jerry W, perfecting and tailoring a tune for the Marauder, while SCT itself was blooming in the background.

Then came Stage II; underdrive pulleys, Stallion single plate torque converter with 2800 stall, DynoTech driveshaft, Ravin turbo mufflers and resonator delete tips. The best performance I got out of these mods was a 14.2x/92 MPH, 291 RWHP/301 RWTQ, and I spent 4200 bucks, including shipping, tax and install labor. To get equal performance for 3500 bucks is a no-brainer. To imagine not exceeding that performance with this kit, is no brain.

I was comfortable with the performance develop for the money spent. Seems silly now, a big waste of money. But, we didn't have much to work with back then. I did a lot of exploring and with very limited availability. As a group sharing the 411, we were creative, daring, and cutting through a lot of jungle. I had plans to continue, but came to sell this first Marauder, to buy the Kenny Brown Marauder S #1x, another experiment of those days.

I'm posting this because all along my path came the nay-sayers. "you can't do that, it wont fit, you'll blow the motor" yada, yada, yada. Kenny Brown had a book of stories about what he couldn't do to a Marauder, but it didn't stop him either. My point is, is that without this experimentation, exploration and development, none of us would be here hashing this out now.

Let's give it a rest, y'all Let's sit back and watch Greg knock one out of the park, or, walk. Either way it goes, some of us may be pleasantly surprised.

Y'all don't know how bad I want to try this on my bone stock #3 Marauder, trying ***** has been what I do from day 1. I just don't have the funding available at this time.

Good luckto you, Greg, and when you get a chance, please outline the details of the kit?

[Tallboy]

Perhaps he should have checked the actuarial tables before posting :rofl::banana:

Made me laugh out loud!!! Nice one, Dan! :beer:

[BillyGman]

If done in stages then, the components bought previously are still employed in the next stage. No wasted money, simply piecing a system together and enjoying the effects on the way.

How many S/Ced engines have you heard of that stayed healthy that were running the 10.0:1 compression ratio that the Marauder engines do, and w/out being intercooled???

[HwyCruiser]

How many S/Ced engines have you heard of that stayed healthy that were running the 10.0:1 compression ratio that the Marauder engines do, and w/out being intercooled???

Enlighten me. How many 10:1 compression ratio engines run 4-6 psi non-intercooled?

[BillyGman]

Enlighten me. How many 10:1 compression ratio engines run 4-6 psi non-intercooled? What I'm saying my friend is that running any supercharger set-up on a high compression engine w/out any intercooler is NOT a good idea. And that's precisely why it hasn't ever been done. (atleast not successfully for any length of time that I'm aware of). With a set-up like that, there would be a smaller margin of error, and heaven help you if you ever get a bad batch of gas from your local station. You would be better off saving a little more money for someone's intercooled S/cer kit (whether it be Greg's, or someone else's).

[juno]

Lets see, the Buick 3800 v6 came from the factory supercharged to 6 psi with no intercooler, pretty successful, along with the ZX turbo. I think the Xterra might not have had one, but I would have to search. OEM cars with low stock boost don't need the added expense. I said lot's of cars came OEM with out intercoolers, not all. Just that Buick v-6 is probably more then all the marauders that will ever have a power adder.

[Tallboy]

Lets see, the Buick 3800 v6 came from the factory supercharged to 6 psi with no intercooler, pretty successful, along with the ZX turbo. I think the Xterra might not have had one, but I would have to search. OEM cars with low stock boost don't need the added expense. I said lot's of cars came OEM with out intercoolers, not all. Just that Buick v-6 is probably more then all the marauders that will ever have a power adder.

The Buick setup was 20 years ago. If the setup was so good, why did Buick intercool the later model years?

[BillyGman]

Lets see, the Buick 3800 v6 came from the factory supercharged to 6 psi with no intercooler, pretty successful, along with the ZX turbo. I think the Xterra might not have had one, but I would have to search. OEM cars with low stock boost don't need the added expense. I said lot's of cars came OEM with out intercoolers, not all. Just that Buick v-6 is probably more then all the marauders that will ever have a power adder. . Was the Buick a high compression engine like the Marauder is?? ..the answer is NO!!!......the Marauder engine is a 10 to 1 compression ratio engine. Why do you think that NO factory S/Ced cars have come with compression ratios as high as Marauders have???

The fantastic and previously unheard of S/Cing succeses on high compression engines using pump gasoline that have taken place with our Marauders have been accomplished with clever and skillfull engine tuning despite the Marauder's high compression engines. But that's been accomplished WITH adequate intercooler systems. But to do this without intercoolers will narrow the margin of error and/or reduce the ignition timing potentials significantly. What you guys are contemplating, is playing with fire. But go ahead, it's your money, and your engines. I wast just trying to give you a kind hearted heads up. Good luck!! You're gonna need it. A lot of it!!!

[Brutus]

What I'm saying my friend is that running any supercharger set-up on a high compression engine w/out any intercooler is NOT a good idea. And that's precisely why it hasn't ever been done. (atleast not successfully for any length of time that I'm aware of). With a set-up like that, there would be a smaller margin of error, and heaven help you if you ever get a bad batch of gas from your local station. You would be better off saving a little more money for someone's intercooled S/cer kit (whether it be Greg's, or someone else's).

Whats the comp. of the 05-06 mustangs??

http://www.proficientperformance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=powerdyne&Product_Code=K10199-101

[DirtyDog]

The Buick setup was 20 years ago. If the setup was so good, why did Buick intercool the later model years?


Why didn't they use intercoolers before they were invented? Things charge as improvements happen. It does not mean, not using and intercooler is wrong, just not as efficient and as expensive. You can run a 671 blower with 12:1 compression, it just does not take as long to get to it maximum of say 14.7:1.

[SergntMac]

Whats the comp. of the 05-06 mustangs??

http://www.proficientperformance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=powerdyne&Product_Code=K10199-101
Haven't seen it in print yet, but it's prolly the same as the Marauder, Aviator, and Mach I. 9.8:1.

Thanks for the link, didn't see an intercooler listed, none visible in the pic. Looks like it's just a few inches from blower to throttle body. Nice power from 7 PSI of boost though, I hope these guys know what they are doing....

EDIT: CR is 9.8:1, found the answer here
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/articles/2006-Ford-Mustang-Review.php

[BillyGman]

Why didn't they use intercoolers before they were invented? Things charge as improvements happen. It does not mean, not using and intercooler is wrong, just not as efficient and as expensive. You can run a 671 blower with 12:1 compression, it just does not take as long to get to it maximum of say 14.7:1.Uhmm have you ever heard of something called "RACE GAS"???That's what the 12:1 engine can run. The Marauder is a street car that has to be run on pump gas. It's not a trailer queen.

[DirtyDog]

Uhmm have you ever heard of something called "RACE GAS"???That's what the 12:1 engine can run. The Marauder is a street car that has to be run on pump gas. It's not a trailer queen.

Here is a chart and details for you.


http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php

[BillyGman]

"The same technology that drives the huge blowers on Top Fuel Dragsters and Funny Cars has been refined by Powerdyne to produce the only belt-driven centrifugal supercharger manufactured today..."

I wouldn't trust a company that makes a statement that's as ambiguous as the one above^

In other words, just because their centrifugal S/Cer is belt driven, it's the "same technology" as the roots blowers are from on Top Fuel dragsters???? Come on now. And tell me how many people do you know with 05 and 06 Mustangs that atre even supercharged at all yet? Let alone how many are using that company's set-up. That comparisant isn't even applicable.

[Brutus]

Haven't seen it in print yet, but it's prolly the same as the Marauder, Aviator, and Mach I. 9.8:1.

Thanks for the link, didn't see an intercooler listed, none visible in the pic. Looks like it's just a few inches from blower to throttle body. Nice power from 7 PSI of boost though, I hope these guys know what they are doing....

If Im not mistaken, the powerdyne kits used to be sold thru Ford Motorsports.

[BillyGman]

Here is a chart and details for you.


http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php You're grossly overlooking something...... the extremely long duration cams used in racing circles, which our Marauders do not have. The longer duration that's used on a camshaft design, the greater your static compression ratio can be while using pump gasoline. Again, you're comparing all-out drag race engines used in trailer queens, to our street driven factory built Marauder engines. Apples to oranges my friend.

[Tallboy]

Well guys, it would seem we are at yet another crossroads. Both sides presented their views on this. Instead of continuing to bicker amongst ourselves [the two sides will never see eye-to-eye], let's just sit back and see if it works?

[SergntMac]

You must not read too well. Was the Buick a high compression engine like the Marauder is?? I'll spell it out for you...the answer is NO!!!...... hello!!!! the Marauder engine is a 10 to 1 compression ratio engine. What is so difficult for you guys to get about that????? I might as well be talking to a wall. Do you even know what "compression ratio" is???? Why do you think that NO factory S/Ced cars have come with compression ratios as high as Marauders have??? Am I coming through out there????? Is English the language of this board, or do I need to speak in a foreign tongue? Billy...


Nevermind.

[BillyGman]

I don't want this to begin looking like my efforts here are aimed at Greg, or at his business. And I don't wish to get caught up in this anymore.

So although I'm pertfectly open to SINCERE questions via PM about this, I'm definately finished with this thread. I'm sorry that it came down to this. I really didn't intend for that to happen. Thanks to guys like "Hwy cruiser" for his legit and sincere questions and viewpoints. I haven't any problems with that.

[DirtyDog]

You're grossly overlooking something...... the extremely long duration cams used in racing circles, which our Marauders do not have. The longer duration that's used on a camshaft design, the greater your static compression ratio can be while using pump gasoline. Again, you're comparing all-out drag race engines used in trailer queens, to our street driven factory built Marauder engines. Apples to oranges my friend.


All, I am saying is you can use a forced air induction on an engine with 10:1 compression without an intercooler. It may not be as efficient, it will work, it will not break if the boost is not extreme. You could blow your engine up if you added to much boost. The preposed kit will be tested and released with no obvious problems, I am guessing. It would not be good for business.

I don't beleive you are even in the market for such an item.

Studebaker was quite well known for their supercharger in the fifties. It looked very much the same, worked the same, 9.5:1 compression and non-intercooled. I also beleive the 1963 Supercharged (Paxton) Studebaker still holds the World Land Speed Record for its class.

[DirtyDog]

Well guys, it would seem we are at yet another crossroads. Both sides presented their views on this. Instead of continuing to bicker amongst ourselves [the two sides will never see eye-to-eye], let's just sit back and see if it works?


What he said.

[MikesMerc]

If Im not mistaken, the powerdyne kits used to be sold thru Ford Motorsports.

Powerdyne blowers aren't too bad for low boost applications. That's the first blower I had on my 91 mustang coupe. The 6 psi was pretty mild with no low to mid range gains. But the top end had a noticeable scoot. I eventually pulley'd it up to 9 psi at which time the internal belt promptly broke (eventhough Powerdyne says it can run 9 psi). They repaired it under warranty and I sold it and moved to the gear driven vortech s-trim.

All and all, I wouldn't knock powerdyne for a low boost, super quiet blower.

BTW, I think there reference to dragsters is just a general reference to superchargers in general. The target market Powerdyne pursues is a bit less hardcore and not likely to be confused by the reference.

Well, everyone has had their say. Especially me...an uninvited guest at that most likely:)

I say you try it and sees what happens. Tune for the hot days and be safe.

[rayjay]

:popcorn: I guess I'm going to just sit back and see if this kit comes to fruition and what it can do for me, the daily driver with a wish for a little more power. Carry on... :popcorn:

[Brutus]

I guess it has been established that the 2005 Mustang has a comp ratio of 9.8:1, close enough to 10:1 for me to make a comparison. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it just amazes me how far some will take it, even insulting other's about their opinions. Both Vortech and Paxton both make a non-intercooled kit for the 05 Mustang. I only bring this to light to inform others of what is being offered. I am not trying to start a war over what is best. I would not think that companies such as them would bring a product to market that didnt work. Obviously everybody is going to be loyal to what they have.

I am sure all who are S/C picked what was best for them and their circumstances

These arguments really get old and always seem to have the same particpant(s).

By the way, the very first 05 Mustang GT I saw up close was S/C'ed (with no intercooler)

[MarauderTJA]

I guess it has been established that the 2005 Mustang has a comp ratio of 9.8:1, close enough to 10:1 for me to make a comparison. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it just amazes me how far some will take it, even insulting other's about their opinions. Both Vortech and Paxton both make a non-intercooled kit for the 05 Mustang. I only bring this to light to inform others of what is being offered. I am not trying to start a war over what is best. I would not think that companies such as them would bring a product to market that didnt work. Obviously everybody is going to be loyal to what they have.

I am sure all who are S/C picked what was best for them and their circumstances

These arguments really get old and always seem to have the same particpant(s).

By the way, the very first 05 Mustang GT I saw up close was S/C'ed (with no intercooler)


Well said...

[sabtaj1]

well this is what they make the methanol snow kit for. With that you will be in great shape. I plan on buying this kit here real soon and getting the snow kit also.

[Mad4Macs]

Chuck Norris would have roundhouse kicked this thread into oblivion 3 pages ago :cool:

[Bradley G]

Exactly, ... What would Chuck Norris need an intercooler, for?:P
Chuck Norris would have roundhouse kicked this thread into oblivion 3 pages ago :cool:

[Marauderjack]

I have said it before and I'll say it once more.....The car really scoots at half throttle and about 5 PSI.....Gives it that "I just lost 1500#" feeling!!:beer:

Another point would be longevity for those who drive a lot.....5 PSI ain't near as tough on the motor and drive train as 9-10 PSI!!:bows:

I see a definite place for an "Entry Level" Mod of this kind.....IT IS ADDICTIVE ya know!!:rolleyes:

Good Luck Greg!!

Marauderjack:D

[Blackened300a]

Let the testing begin and then make your comments to what the Kit will or will not do.
This is mostly Speculation

[O's Fan Rich]

I am looking forward to this setup being unleashed!
It's gonna help alot of guys jump on the boost bandwagon!~

[maraudernkc]

Wow! Gone for the weekend and look what i misssed.

I can not beleive what some of you guys are saying about this kit.

This is an entry level kit that is a hell of alot better than shooting some NOS down your intake. IMO

Gman, I have no ideal what your PROBLEM is. I hope you will be in Florida in November. I would love to meet you in person.:fire:

Tallboy, I know your agenda and I can't wait to see you in Orlando.:eek:

I will promise you that the Procharger cars will be running as strong or stronger than any other power adder out there.:argue:

Talk is cheap and we shall see in November.:lol:

I can't wait to see the final results in Orlando.

Marauder powered by Procharger #1

Marauder powered by Procharger #2

AND SO ON:argue:

Check out what the Procharger cars can do. What can you do?
http://www.procharger.com/racing-news/06update-mar-apr.html

[bigslim]

Wow! Gone for the weekend and look what i misssed.

I can not beleive what some of you guys are saying about this kit.

This is an entry level kit that is a hell of alot better than shooting some NOS down your intake. IMO

Gman, I have no ideal what your PROBLEM is. I hope you will be in Florida in November. I would love to meet you in person.:fire:

Tallboy, I know your agenda and I can't wait to see you in Orlando.:eek:

I will promise you that the Procharger cars will be running as strong or stronger than any other power adder out there.:argue:

Talk is cheap and we shall see in November.:lol:

I can't wait to see the final results in Orlando.

Marauder powered by Procharger #1

Marauder powered by Procharger #2

AND SO ON:argue:
Better than nitrous, I don't think so. :loco: Good luck with the kit though.

[maraudernkc]

Slim,are you going to Orlando? I hope we can meet. I will try to stay true to my ROOTS. LOL!


Better than nitrous, I don't think so. :loco: Good luck with the kit though.

[rayjay]

Let the testing begin and then make your comments to what the Kit will or will not do.
This is mostly Speculation

Bingo! :up:

[MarauderMarc]

I think it will be great to see this kit come together. Ive been reading this thread for a few days, but chose not to get into the battle. Sure the non intercooled will be less power, but I think Greg is doing great for his buisiness. Not everybody can afford a 5000+ kit at first, but let the novices learn from there and upgrade as funds are available. Im sure greg will have a stage 2, 3, ect. kit available as upgrades. Kudos to you, Greg, for thinking of those with low funds. Take the negative comments in stride and rise to the top.

[bigslim]

Slim,are you going to Orlando? I hope we can meet. I will try to stay true to my ROOTS. LOL!
Still going. Can't wait to meet you Greg.:beer:

[Marauderjack]

The real world is....

The CVPI is underpowered and would benefit greatly for LEO duty with the MM motor.....:cool:

The MM is borderline underpowered for a "Sports Sedan" and the 100+ extra HP of the non-intercooled kit WILL definitely give it the PIZZAZ it needed to begin with plus the capability to add on later on!!:beer:

I still think it is a great idea!!:banana:

Go Greg!!!:D

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Tallboy]

Tallboy, I know your agenda and I can't wait to see you in Orlando.:eek:



PM Sent......

[MarauderTJA]

How can an additional power adder option for Marauders not be welcomed here:confused:

[Mike M]

Good question! No good answers!

[LVMarauder]

This thread could use less talk about blowers and more talk about blunts. :rasta:

[BillyGman]

12121212122121

[Smokie]

Just a thought directed at Gregg: Offer the kit with 2 tunes. A performance COOL weather tune and a safe HOT weather tune. Either a flip chip or 2 flash tunes....just a thought.:)

[maraudernkc]

Billy, thanks for thinking of me.



"Greg, you are risking your business by offering a non-intercooled kit.
Do what you want, but stick to what works best." (Zack)
__________________
-
Vortech Supercharged
11.611 @ 116.88

I Make Badgeless Grills

[Bigdogjim]

Was what I posted incorrect?

Should I have called my fleet manager?

Teck support via phone is still free my friend!:P

[MikesMerc]

How can an additional power adder option for Marauders not be welcomed here:confused:

It is only wlecomed if it is safe, effective, reliable, and worth the $$$.



Good question! No good answers!

Sure there were. I gave a number of good reasons. You and a few others just chose to ignore them.

Funny thing is, none of the Yay Sayers on this thread have ever owned a low boost non intercooled centrifugal blower kit. I think that pretty much says it all about the validity of those opinions.


To greg, I mean no offense to you or your business. I apologize right now if you feel offended in any way. This has nothing to do with FIT. Honestly, I would be just as adamant if Jerry or Dennis offered a similar proposal. What Zack said was dead on. Non intercooled kits are 15 years behind the times and dangerous on the higher compression mod motors. Be careful and good luck with the venture. The only other thing I have to recommend is that you make the kit easily modified for adding an intercooler.

[HwyCruiser]

Mike, I think your edited comments are valid. I've shared my own concerns about a non-intercooled kit. The real question, after the fitting, after the test and tuning, and after the pricing structure is released, is will anyone buy it?

I haven't gone back and re-read all the posts, but I think this has been a very open thread for everyone to be heard on. All very valuable information for a potential consumer.

I doubt that Greg or Diablo will put out a tuned kit that is inherently dangerous. Maybe it runs 80 hp on 4 psi of boost to be safe. We don't know the specifics yet. The good data hasn't been found out yet.

Not directed to you specifically, the tone of condescension that some have demonstrated here isn't doing anyone any good. Let's see what this pup looks like before we throw it over the bridge, eh?

[tmac1337]

How can an additional power adder option for Marauders not be welcomed here:confused:

Tom....your not being serious here are you?

[Mike M]

Like I said earlier....No good answers.

[MarauderTJA]

Funny thing is, none of the Yay Sayers on this thread have ever owned a low boost non intercooled centrifugal blower kit. I think that pretty much says it all about the validity of those opinions.

Actually I have owned a non-intercooled S/C (Powerdyne - 6 lbs boost) on a 93 Cobra Mustang when I first moved here to Florida. This was mentioned on the non-intercooled test thread. It was a street and drag car and I never had a problem. And the compression was close to 10.1 as well with cast pistons.

I am confident Greg will not release the kit until testing is completed. I fully understand your concern along with everyone elses comments here. But lets wait and see what the testing reveals before pre-judging the results. There are people that may be interested in this type of kit. Why deflate their enthusiasm.

[sabtaj1]

there are alot on non-intercooled cars. I dont see why you guys are makin such a big deal out of this. And like I said earlier, Get a methanol injection kit and you will be just like an intercooler or even better. I will be one of the first to buy the non-intercooled kits.

[maraudernkc]

If you don't have any factual information regarding this thread, please do not post anymore. I think I have been more than fair to let people come on here and tell me how this won't work and do nothing more than scare potenial customers. If you have facts than post your facts otherwise move on.

This kit is about a safe tune with 6PSI that will be very easy to upgrade to the 10PSI Intercooled kit.

If anyone is interested is this type of kit and has access to Diablo in Florida, please call me.

Thanks, Greg

[prchrman]

If you don't have any factual information regarding this thread, please do not post anymore. I think I have been more than fair to let people come on here and tell me how this won't work and do nothing more than scare potenial customers. If you have facts than post your facts otherwise move on.

This kit is about a safe tune with 6PSI that will be very easy to upgrade to the 10PSI Intercooled kit.

If anyone is interested is this type of kit and has access to Diablo in Florida, please call me.

Thanks, Greg

I agree with Greg...he is going to test and show results I am sure and also if you do not want one of these kits do not buy...but...some may buy and time will telll if it is a viable option...there are sure a lot of experts on here but I have yet to see any hard data that proves this kit will be a hand grenade...at one time it came up about nitrous and boy howdy the experts came out of the wood work on how every motor was just going to explode into bits and pieces no bigger than a thimble...now that has been put to rest and many members are running nitrous safely...OBTW hasn't there been some inter cooled SC motor blows...myself I have about 15,000 miles left on my warranty and I am going with a progressive 100 hp nitrous system...I believe the more options available on here the better...willie

[Mike M]

It is really amazing how far these cars have come. 302 HP was cool but then it just kept getting bumped up. Performance chips, reprogramming, air filters and CAI, pulleys, mufflers and then exhaust then headers and manifolds, throttlebodys, even camshafts, Nitrous, Super Chargers, Turbos, gears, TConverters, trans mods etc (I am probably forgetting half the stuff). Having a 2 "stage" Supercharger kit seems like a no brainer that will provide a nice increase in power and later on can be modified to further the increase. Seems like a no brainer to me.
If Greg or any of the other manufacturers came out with this 3 yeras ago I would have done it 3 years ago.
It makes alot of sense to me.

[MikesMerc]

Mike, I think your edited comments are valid. I've shared my own concerns about a non-intercooled kit. The real question, after the fitting, after the test and tuning, and after the pricing structure is released, is will anyone buy it?

Not directed to you specifically, the tone of condescension that some have demonstrated here isn't doing anyone any good. Let's see what this pup looks like before we throw it over the bridge, eh?

Agreed. I wasn't going to say any more than I already had before those without much actual hands on experience piped up and pretended like there is no downside to a non intercooled kit. I'll let it rest.



Actually I have owned a non-intercooled S/C (Powerdyne - 6 lbs boost) on a 93 Cobra Mustang when I first moved here to Florida.

As I said earlier, I owned a Powerdyne on my mustang too, and I was simply disappointed. Another thing to consider is that the 5.0 already made huge torque down low (the famous attribute of the 5-oh), so the top end only boost of the low psi Powerdyne was a tad better fit for the intended application.



I am confident Greg will not release the kit until testing is completed. I fully understand your concern along with everyone elses comments here. But lets wait and see what the testing reveals before pre-judging the results. There are people that may be interested in this type of kit. Why deflate their enthusiasm.

You're right. I need to let it all go and let folks do what they want. I have no trouble with the idea of "trying" it out. Why not. I just got goaded into posting again by some folks who want to pretend there are absolutely no issues with a non intercooled application. I should not have let that happen.

BTW, I NEVER said a non intercooled kit would be unsafe. Its a matter of how much power can be made SAFELY from a non inter cooled kit.



And like I said earlier, Get a methanol injection kit and you will be just like an intercooler or even better. I will be one of the first to buy the non-intercooled kits.

Meth is definitely better than an intercooler. A bit more work and maintainence, but worth it. Lidio has some serious cars making huge power with non intercooled set ups with meth injection.



If you don't have any factual information regarding this thread, please do not post anymore. I think I have been more than fair to let people come on here and tell me how this won't work and do nothing more than scare potenial customers. If you have facts than post your facts otherwise move on.

Thanks, Greg

Greg,

If you will permit this last post by me simply to address those comments directed my way, and to allow me a final opportunity to apologize for potentially disrupting any sales potential, I would be greatful.

My responses to the others are noted above. nuff said on my part there.

To you Greg, I want you to know I'm not here to say one thing bad about FIT. Your kit runs, and it runs well. Slim and I can attest to that. We've seen it with our own eyes. If anything, I would have only hoped that potential FIT customers went the extra yard and bought your intercooled kit. I say this NOT because I think a non intercooled kit would be crap (unlike a non intercooled roots or screw blower kit would be), but because of my own personal experiences that have taught me the incredible importance of intercooling.

That said, I hope you prove me wrong. I sincerely hope you can put forth a kit that perfroms well enough to make your customers happy and I have to eat my words.

Finally, a good discussion about intercooling, or the lack of it, is probably a great topic for the forum. I think we only scratched the surface here. But, this was not the place for it, and I understand that. My apologies.

[Mike M]

Very well said.

[maraudernkc]

I am cool with you and I hope to see you in Florida.

I don't know if this kit will or won't be a good option. I just feel like it's something I need to find out and I love that it can be upgraded to a intercooled kit with just about 4 Hours and some more cash. HP cost money, as we all know.

Speaking of money, I am in Las Vegas and need to go get some.

Peace, Greg




Agreed. I wasn't going to say any more than I already had before those without much actual hands on experience piped up and pretended like there is no downside to a non intercooled kit. I'll let it rest.




As I said earlier, I owned a Powerdyne on my mustang too, and I was simply disappointed. Another thing to consider is that the 5.0 already made huge torque down low (the famous attribute of the 5-oh), so the top end only boost of the low psi Powerdyne was a tad better fit for the intended application.



You're right. I need to let it all go and let folks do what they want. I have no trouble with the idea of "trying" it out. Why not. I just got goaded into posting again by some folks who want to pretend there are absolutely no issues with a non intercooled application. I should not have let that happen.

BTW, I NEVER said a non intercooled kit would be unsafe. Its a matter of how much power can be made SAFELY from a non inter cooled kit.




Meth is definitely better than an intercooler. A bit more work and maintainence, but worth it. Lidio has some serious cars making huge power with non intercooled set ups with meth injection.




Greg,

If you will permit this last post by me simply to address those comments directed my way, and to allow me a final opportunity to apologize for potentially disrupting any sales potential, I would be greatful.

My responses to the others are noted above. nuff said on my part there.

To you Greg, I want you to know I'm not here to say one thing bad about FIT. Your kit runs, and it runs well. Slim and I can attest to that. We've seen it with our own eyes. If anything, I would have only hoped that potential FIT customers went the extra yard and bought your intercooled kit. I say this NOT because I think a non intercooled kit would be crap (unlike a non intercooled roots or screw blower kit would be), but because of my own personal experiences that have taught me the incredible importance of intercooling.

That said, I hope you prove me wrong. I sincerely hope you can put forth a kit that perfroms well enough to make your customers happy and I have to eat my words.

Finally, a good discussion about intercooling, or the lack of it, is probably a great topic for the forum. I think we only scratched the surface here. But, this was not the place for it, and I understand that. My apologies.

[SergntMac]

It's been my experience here, that when discussions about a particular topic, or, theme get this long winded, it's good to page back to the opening post and start again.

Never mind what you think you already know about what's been posted here, just reboot...Wipe your memory clean, and start from the top.

I just did this, took me a mere 10 minutes. Quite a trip it was too.

Therefore, I strongly recommend a fresh "from the top" review with an open mind. You'll be entertained, and educated, it's worth the time.

Happy motoring, gents...

Greg...More...Please?

[MarauderTJA]

Mike your right on and well said. I too was disspointed with my Powerdyne on my Mustang as well. I tried to help it out by adding a nitrous system to cool down the charge. Worked OK, but put me in a two power adder class where I didn't have a pray racing the car. Finally went to a Procharger WITH a 3 core intercooler.

I still believe it bears looking into for some of the other guys as well. Refreshing to see we all can debate together for the benefit of out brethan.

Mac, well said too...:D . Looking forward to meeting (and racing) you guys at MV IV.