Please don't yell at me....

[natedog1284]

But I have some questions about nitrous systems. And YES, I did a search for several hours before I posted this. Anyway, as I was looking around, I had noticed that some people had said they prefered the wet kits to the dry kits, or vice versa. Most of these posts were over a year ago, and I was just wondering if anyone had confirmed their opinions or changed them, and which is currently the most reccommended set-up. Also, what seems to be the most prefered manufacturer, and what are some of the model numbers of the kits being used? I am thinking heavily about going on the bottle until I can get some form of forced induction, and most of these kits are within my price range. Thanks for the replies, and again, I DID do a search, I just wanted some more up to date info. Thanks again guys.

-Nate

[Marauder.45]

Hey NateDog1284,

keep waiting buddy. It was like pulling teeth to get NOS advice here with that said, I do love this board. Here is what I found out in my searches in the last month.

Edelbrock makes a Dry kit that is a direct fit for the MM. 75-125shot. They are new to the game, but reports on other kits are good.

All other kits are mustang or universal kits. The ZEX kit seems to be favored, but there are others running NOS, Nitrous Express etc. You can pick wet or dry. The reason for picking wet seems to be for the increased tuning ability. But general concensus seems that shots under 125 the difference between wet and dry is nominal. Also, shots over 100 are not reccommended due to lower end won't stand up to it. But some report no problems at 125 shots on stock lower end.

I picked the ZEX wet kit, 75-125 shot. Part #82023. Summit for $589. It's a universal, and it had plenty of line to run from the trunk. I chose the ZEX wet because the install was easy for our returnless system, and the control unit "syncs" with your gas pedal (TPS) for WOT engagement only. No messing with a button and accidentally engaging motor is ready.

No solenoids to engage and coordinate, simple and clean. I have since installed the system, but have not had time to get my NOS tune done. So I haven't hit the go juice switch yet. I plan to run 100 shot most of the time, but am starting with the 75. I will make a few passes with a 125 shot, but not every pass.

I hope this helps, but please make your own decisions. This information is what I have gathered in my own search, but don't treat it as gospel. Feel free to verify.

[natedog1284]

Thanks for the info. That's what I'm lookign for; just an overall preference in terms of the type of kit, and experiences with them. I will look into the Edelbrock kit, as I know that they make really high quality parts. Anyone else?

[ckadiddle]

Good info Marauder45 - I was wondering how they worked. That is a cool tie-in....only kicks in unter WOT. Neato.

[jstevens]

I've heard wet kits can puddle in the manifold.
That's why I went with dry on the recommendation of my installer who's been doing this a long time.

[Marauder.45]

I've heard wet kits can puddle in the manifold.
That's why I went with dry on the recommendation of my installer who's been doing this a long time.

You are correct. That is why TUNE is super important. You have to retard timing for any shots over 50. The Zex says you can run a 75 w/o retard, but I don't trust it. If your motor goes lean while on the spray, BAD!!! So no passes with less than a half tank of gas, acceleration will slush the gas away from the feed tube.

Gas with no spray, you are ok. Sray with no gas, it's gonna kick your ass.

The reason I went with ZEX is because the system is designed to minimize the possibility of detonation. Other systems have Fuel solenoids and NOS solenoids to coordinate. The ZEX unit is one box, you run the gas and nos into it, and your spray lines out of it to the intake. Super easy, no messing around. The WOT switch also keeps you from making any mistakes. Once the wiring is done, you depress the accelerator for 10 seconds and the box syncs with the WOT reading. Done.

The dry system appears safer, but the wet kits are just as safe if installed properly and TUNED accordingly. What I gathered is that technology has come a long way since the stories of puddling. I also had this concern, but I got more reccomendations for wet than dry. No one I talked to had any detonation issues. Check, double check, and triple check your tune, then spray away with no worries.

http://www.zex.com/ There is a FAQ on the Product Info page.

[MikesMerc]

Puddling and detonation and two different animals completely. Proper tuning handles detonation. NOTHING takes care of puddling.

The science of this is simple. Modern EFI cars with direct port injection have intake manifolds that were designed to flow air, not fuel. Accordingly, the current intake designs were not engineered to minimze fuel puddling inside the intake. Atomized fuel can accumulate in the intake pathways after certain bends and inside the runners where air flow was not designed to guard against it. Bottom line, our intakes were never designed to handle fuel.

The danger of having any puddled fuel in your intake should be self evident. the smallest backfire can ignite the fuel and pretty much blow up your intake. I've seen it happen on EFI cars more than a dozen times over the years.

In way, a great tune can help from preventing a backfire, and reduce the risk of any puddled fuel from igniting. But nothing can eliminate the puddling problem. A good installation that delivers the right amounts of properly atomized fuel can help. Does this make wet systems unsafe? No. A proper tune does go a long way to helping, as does a properly set up kit.

The simple trade off is this:

Wet systems can handle larger shots of NOS better because you can ensure you are getting enough fuel to go with the nitrous. Wet systems can handle 200hp shots with ease. The downside is that wet systems can puddle fuel in the intake path leading to a greater risk of "kaboom" if there is a backfire.

Dry systems are "safer" in this respect as no fuel ever sees the intake paths. However, dry systems cannot handle the same nitrous shots as the extra fuel is being delivered by the injectors. This also means you need to have enough overhead in your fuel system to allow for increased fuel delivery when spraying. You also need a good tuner who understands fuel pump and injectors duty cycles and not try to push the system too far. This is why most dry kits are only good up to 125hp. Another safety upshot to a dry system is that you are not running fuel lines.

Bottom line you get from most tuners:

Running 75 to 125 shot, go dry. At this level there is plenty of overhead in the fuel system to handle delivery extra fuel right in the prgrammed fuel tables. Avoid risks of running fuel lines and running fuel through an intake not designed to handle fuel.

Running above 125, better go wet. At 125 and above the risks with fuel lines and intake puddling are less than the risk of blowing up due to running lean.

As for manufacturers, they are all about the same. Pick your poison.

EDIT- I'll add this. The above for picking wet or dry are just guidelines that you can find when asking experienced nitrous tuners. There are no absolutes, so to each their own and all that. Both can produce fine results. What I discussed is about considering risks which are minimal with either type properly installed.

Also, if going Nitrous, these things are musts:
Get a WOT switch.
Get a bottle warmer...always.
Get a bottle guage.
Get a vent tube (if you plan on running on NHRA tracks).

The WOT switch is for saving your driveline, reducing back fire, and applying Nitrous at something less than WOT which is a tuning nightmare.
The warmer and guage are needed to keep nitrous delivery consistent. Set fuel delivery and tunes rely on consistant nitrous delivery.
The vent tube (blow down) is needed because some dufus in the NHRA says panther cars do not have sufficient seperation between the trunk and passenger compartment. Some techs miss this point, and you'll be able to run without one. But most tracks I've been to check for it.

[Marauder.45]

Puddling and detonation and two different animals completely. Proper tuning handles detonation. NOTHING takes care of puddling.

The science of this is simple. Modern EFI cars with direct port injection have intake manifolds that were designed to flow air, not fuel. Accordingly, the current intake designs were not engineered to minimze fuel puddling inside the intake. Atomized fuel can accumulate in the intake pathways after certain bends and inside the runners where air flow was not designed to guard against it. Bottom line, our intakes were never designed to handle fuel.

The danger of having any puddled fuel in your intake should be self evident. the smallest backfire can ignite the fuel and pretty much blow up your intake. I've seen it happen on EFI cars more than a dozen times over the years.

In way, a great tune can help from preventing a backfire, and reduce the risk of any puddled fuel from igniting. But nothing can eliminate the puddling problem. A good installation that delivers the right amounts of properly atomized fuel can help. Does this make wet systems unsafe? No. A proper tune does go a long way to helping, as does a properly set up kit.

The simple trade off is this:

Wet systems can handle larger shots of NOS better because you can ensure you are getting enough fuel to go with the nitrous. Wet systems can handle 200hp shots with ease. The downside is that wet systems can puddle fuel in the intake path leading to a greater risk of "kaboom" if there is a backfire.

Dry systems are "safer" in this respect as no fuel ever sees the intake paths. However, dry systems cannot handle the same nitrous shots as the extra fuel is being delivered by the injectors. This also means you need to have enough overhead in your fuel system to allow for increased fuel delivery when spraying. You also need a good tuner who understands fuel pump and injectors duty cycles and not try to push the system too far. This is why most dry kits are only good up to 125hp. Another safety upshot to a dry system is that you are not running fuel lines.

Bottom line you get from most tuners:

Running 75 to 125 shot, go dry. At this level there is plenty of overhead in the fuel system to handle delivery extra fuel right in the prgrammed fuel tables. Avoid risks of running fuel lines and running fuel through an intake not designed to handle fuel.

Running above 125, better go wet. At 125 and above the risks with fuel lines and intake puddling are less than the risk of blowing up due to running lean.

As for manufacturers, they are all about the same. Pick your poison.

EDIT- I'll add this. The above for picking wet or dry are just guidelines that you can find when asking experienced nitrous tuners. There are no absolutes, so to each their own and all that. Both can produce fine results. What I discussed is about considering risks which are minimal with either type properly installed.

Also, if going Nitrous, these things are musts:
Get a WOT switch.
Get a bottle warmer...always.
Get a bottle guage.
Get a vent tube (if you plan on running on NHRA tracks).

The WOT switch is for saving your driveline, reducing back fire, and applying Nitrous at something less than WOT which is a tuning nightmare.
The warmer and guage are needed to keep nitrous delivery consistent. Set fuel delivery and tunes rely on consistant nitrous delivery.
The vent tube (blow down) is needed because some dufus in the NHRA says panther cars do not have sufficient seperation between the trunk and passenger compartment. Some techs miss this point, and you'll be able to run without one. But most tracks I've been to check for it.

What he said too!

[natedog1284]

Wow, great info Mike. I was planning on doing a 100 shot anyway, so I will look into the dry kits. Thanks again for this. Also, do most of you with nitrous use the WOT switch, or do you have another arming switch as well? And if any of you do, where did you put it? I've seen some great pictures of setups in the trunk, but never in the passenger compartment, so I'm just wondering what others have been doing. Thanks again for the info guys!

Nate

[Joe Walsh]

Another Nitrous system option to consider is a remote activated bottle valve.

That way you don't have to climb out and open the trunk should an impromptu 'test session' present itself.:D

BTW: No one mentioned a purge valve....lots of guys at the track have them. Is it mainly for racing systems or just for show??

[jstevens]

Nate,
I went with the WOT switch. Mounted bottle on shelf where spare tire goes.
WOT switch keeps everything easier and safer.

[MikesMerc]

BTW: No one mentioned a purge valve....lots of guys at the track have them. Is it mainly for racing systems or just for show??

If you're a serious racer, then a purge is a great idea. Especially on larger shots. It eliminates nitrous vapor from the line (between the bottle and the delivery selinoid), and ensures that have liquid nitrous as close to the the jet as possible. This is important for consistency when the nitrous "hits." When you are tuned for a 250 shot to come on, you want it right on the money for perfect tuning and launch set ups.

For less serious racers using smaller shots it isn't needed. The line "clears itself" within a fraction of a second anyway.

[natedog1284]

Nate,
I went with the WOT switch. Mounted bottle on shelf where spare tire goes.
WOT switch keeps everything easier and safer.

I had another clarification question with that too; do you have something like an arming switch to activate the system, or is it always on? I have a size 14 shoe made of lead (actually, more like depleted uranium), and I tend to go WOT more often than I should, so I wouldn't want to use up all my nitrous too fast, plus I manly race poorly built ricers, so I wouldn't necessarily need the nitrous all the time anyway, (I'm not bragging, there just isn't a lot of cars around here with a sub 15-sec 1/4 :P). Also, if you do have something like that, (and I guess I'm talking about a remote activated setup, as Joe mentioned before), where did you mount it? Forgive my ignorance here, but I just really want to make sure I do all my homework before I go out and play. :D

[Marauder.45]

Blast off baby.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d48/xkyl9595/untitled.jpg

Mounted near parking brake, along with 4 position knob for chip.

ETA: I wish I ran at your track. Everyone has a 12 second car around here.

[natedog1284]

Blast off baby.


Mounted near parking brake, along with 4 position knob for chip.

ETA: I wish I ran at your track. Everyone has a 12 second car around here.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking of. I might even be able to "borrow" something like that from where I work. I was thinking about mounting that in the center console.

Some more questions: is there such a thing as a remote, (preferably electric) bottle pressure gauge? I would like to be able to leave the bottle warmer off, but when I kicked it on, verify that I had good pressure before I used the system. And also, should I get a chip as opposed to just a tune? Are you able to switch the tune on your car by just turning a knob if you have a chip? Again, sorry if these are dumb questions, just pretend like you're talking to a 5 year old here....

And thanks again guys, I'm learning a lot!

[Marauder.45]

The arming switch will come in your kit.

Sorry, no pick for the knob. But yeah, you can have multiple tunes on 1 chip. I prefer the chip because I can switch at the turn of a dial from street tune to track tune to track tune w/nos. I don't have to plug in a tuner and reflash every time I go to the track.

There are remote openers, I have been told sometimes they don't close all the way and leak. If you are at the track, is it that big of a deal? For street, is it worth it? you are going to ROAST your stock tires anyway.

I'm also interested to see if I can get the tank guage up front with me.

As for the electric warmer, I'm staying away. I'm not running huge shots, and the extra wiring has been known to start fires. People leave it on, whatever. I'm not saying that it WILL cause a fire, but it seems the NOS related trunk fires have had something to do with the electric warmer. That is enough for me.

[Marauder.45]

Go here to read up on the tune stuff. http://www.sctflash.com/faqs.php

Then call Dennis or Lidio to order it. Support the vendors. They also know our MMs the best and will get the most out of them.

[natedog1284]

I will do just that. I've got some money set aside for them anyway, (God forbid I should save it :D). Thanks for all your help. I'll check some hydraulic/pneudraulic catalogs I have and see if I can find a guage that would work. That is unless someome already has something. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!
Nate