A word of warning regarding Forced Fab in Ohio

[Warpath]

I wanted to share this with you. I have no personal experience with them. But, I did find this thread interesting. Since I do not have any personal experience, I won't make any comments. Enjoy.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=787016

[SergntMac]

Man-oh-man, that is some high drama!

[Hotrauder]

That young man is way to easy going and forgiving and the newer owner is way to cavalier about his responsibilities. When he bought the business he also purchased the existing responsibilities of the business. I would like to see a lawyer local to this poor guy sue the ass off both the former and existing owner. Dishonest clowns like that do not belong in any business, anywhere. Dennis:soap:

[SergntMac]

When he bought the business he also purchased the existing responsibilities of the business. I would like to see a lawyer local to this poor guy sue the ass off both the former and existing owner. Dishonest clowns like that do not belong in any business, anywhere. Dennis I'm no lawyer, but this may not be the case. The way it reads in the threads, only the FF website was bought and reopened as a new limited licensed corporation (LLC). The business that traded hands, was the website, not the build shop.

If there is a new shop open under an old name, the previous debts and responsibilities are not automatically absorbed. But, I do agree that it all appears very sloppy, not much is really clear from either side. Lot's of emotions and little supporting documentation sort of says the underhandedness continues. Sounds like a family of Irish Travelers if you ask me.

OTOH, where does the "victim" earn the right to use the internet to burn up a business? What if the new owners are not legally responsible for the previous owners bad business, and they are indeed trying to help the "victim" out of their own pocket? But, when it doesn't happen fast enough to please the victim, he busts on them over the www. That's a lot of BS too, electronic extortion, IMHO. If I were the new owner, and telling a true story, I'd tell him to go ****** himself too.

It's long been my position that the internet isn't the place to seek relief or justice. Get off your azz and take it to court, or, STFU. Hell, this would be a great case for Judge Judy, where the "victim" has a real chance of getting his money back, but he seems more content to play crybaby.

[martyo]

I'm no lawyer, but this may not be the case. The way it reads in the threads, only the FF website was bought and reopened as a new limited licensed corporation (LLC). The business that traded hands, was the website, not the build shop.

If there is a new shop open under an old name, the previous debts and responsibilities are not automatically absorbed. But, I do agree that it all appears very sloppy, not much is really clear from either side. Lot's of emotions and little supporting documentation sort of says the underhandedness continues. Sounds like a family of Irish Travelers if you ask me.

OTOH, where does the "victim" earn the right to use the internet to burn up a business? What if the new owners are not legally responsible for the previous owners bad business, and they are indeed trying to help the "victim" out of their own pocket? But, when it doesn't happen fast enough to please the victim, he busts on them over the www. That's a lot of BS too, electronic extortion, IMHO. If I were the new owner, and telling a true story, I'd tell him to go ****** himself too.

It's long been my position that the internet isn't the place to seek relief or justice. Get off your azz and take it to court, or, STFU. Hell, this would be a great case for Judge Judy, where the "victim" has a real chance of getting his money back, but he seems more content to play crybaby.

Mac: Good answer. Send me your resume and you can be my paralegal! :D

[rocknrod]

I had an engine builder in Indy screw me out of $$. I got busy with the state and local legal system. He is "finally" in court now. Found out I was not the only one he screwed.

[wsmylie]

Maybe he shoulda gone with the "cops or baseball bat" route he talked about earlier-on. All the legal niceties aside..... (if everything is as the young man said) getting screwed like that would be a tough pill to take.:(

[South Hills]

I'm no lawyer, but this may not be the case. The way it reads in the threads, only the FF website was bought and reopened as a new limited licensed corporation (LLC). The business that traded hands, was the website, not the build shop.

If there is a new shop open under an old name, the previous debts and responsibilities are not automatically absorbed. But, I do agree that it all appears very sloppy, not much is really clear from either side. Lot's of emotions and little supporting documentation sort of says the underhandedness continues. Sounds like a family of Irish Travelers if you ask me.

OTOH, where does the "victim" earn the right to use the internet to burn up a business? What if the new owners are not legally responsible for the previous owners bad business, and they are indeed trying to help the "victim" out of their own pocket? But, when it doesn't happen fast enough to please the victim, he busts on them over the www. That's a lot of BS too, electronic extortion, IMHO. If I were the new owner, and telling a true story, I'd tell him to go ****** himself too.

It's long been my position that the internet isn't the place to seek relief or justice. Get off your azz and take it to court, or, STFU. Hell, this would be a great case for Judge Judy, where the "victim" has a real chance of getting his money back, but he seems more content to play crybaby.

Sgt. Mac is mostly right-on.

But for clarity, although I am not a lawyer either, "LLC" stands for Limited Liability Company. It means just what it sounds like, and provides the limited liability features of a corporation and the tax efficiencies and operational flexibility of a partnership. h

It is a popular choice for sole proprietors who are looking to incorporate simply to protect personal assets or to secure additional loans, and the financial model is easy and inexpensive to organize. It is a recognized business structure in all 50 states (and the district).

[Warpath]

I normally read these stories with a grain of salt because its only one sided. However, sometimes there isn't enough evidence to take it to court. Therefore, the only recourse is the internet. In my experience, I took my Cobra to Livernois Motorsports and they gave it back to me damaged and tried to hide it. I did try to take them to court. But, they could have easily come in and said it was not their fault (like they told me). I didn't have concrete evidence it was their fault. But, they were in control of A/F the whole time. So, I can only warn people of their dishonest business practices through word of mouth and internet as I am doing here. They're called Detroit Speed Shops now.

[martyo]

Fordced Fab was just written up in Muscle Mustangs.

[RR|Suki]

Heh, you can't trust anyone these days. I have spent the last 9 months fixing mistakes made by builders who knew what they were doing. So I more than feel this guy's pain. It happens, and unfortunately there is no real recourse. People who get robbed this way are pretty much out of luck unless they have resources to put into taking people to court.

[DOHCMERC]

I'm no lawyer, but this may not be the case. The way it reads in the threads, only the FF website was bought and reopened as a new limited licensed corporation (LLC). The business that traded hands, was the website, not the build shop.

If there is a new shop open under an old name, the previous debts and responsibilities are not automatically absorbed. But, I do agree that it all appears very sloppy, not much is really clear from either side. Lot's of emotions and little supporting documentation sort of says the underhandedness continues. Sounds like a family of Irish Travelers if you ask me.

OTOH, where does the "victim" earn the right to use the internet to burn up a business? What if the new owners are not legally responsible for the previous owners bad business, and they are indeed trying to help the "victim" out of their own pocket? But, when it doesn't happen fast enough to please the victim, he busts on them over the www. That's a lot of BS too, electronic extortion, IMHO. If I were the new owner, and telling a true story, I'd tell him to go ****** himself too.

It's long been my position that the internet isn't the place to seek relief or justice. Get off your azz and take it to court, or, STFU. Hell, this would be a great case for Judge Judy, where the "victim" has a real chance of getting his money back, but he seems more content to play crybaby.



Did we read two different accounts???

The customer has waited over 17(?) months for this to be resolved.

Has numerous responses from the shop about how it'll ship next week or "soon"

If this keeps 1 other person from getting burnt.....it was well worth it.

Only mistake I see is not using a credit card......for a company to make up some BS story not to use one kinda makes me think they've has some charge backs in the past.

[SergntMac]

Did we read two different accounts? No, same story I'm sure. Perhaps you didn't read all of it, there are two links that lead to continuations with more detail, including statements from the accused.

[BigGuyBigCar]

As an extension of the info written by South Hills, I am a consultant and my business is set up as a LLC. Set up costs are <$1000 and state fee for being a LLC is $500/year. It is a legitimate means of separating what the business owns and is liable for from my personal assets.

Doesn't matter if you are Inc, Co, Ltd, LLC, or "doing business as" either you are honest or not.

[SergntMac]

Doesn't matter if you are Inc, Co, Ltd, LLC, or "doing business as" either you are honest or not. Absolutely true. Problem with this scenario, is that (by appearances) the accused businessman is not the man responsible for cheating the customer, yet he's getting pounded by the victim anyway.

The truth is, we will all have our own opinion of who's right and who's wrong, and we'll never agree, which is why this stuff has no business being on the 'net.

[DOHCMERC]

No, same story I'm sure. Perhaps you didn't read all of it, there are two links that lead to continuations with more detail, including statements from the accused.



I would lean more toward what you're proposing if the accused stuck with the same story from the beginning.

My take is the guy that took the LLC over made promises of delivery and products and now wants to sell the stuff on e-bay because he's annoyed and is claiming it was NEVER his problem...........should of denied any responsibility from the start. The shop owner's credibility is in the toilet IMO.

I, for one, appreciate the dirty laundry stories. There have been many a bad company exposed because of the WWW. And while we may not agree who's correct in this scenario, I'm sure it will make the next customer get things in writing and use secure payments. (which should always be the case anyway)

[Warpath]

If Livernois came up to me and said something happened and at least attempted to take even a portion of the blame, I would have a completely different opinion of them. But, they were dishonest and tried to hide it. With this Forced Fab case, I agree with DOHCMERC, they should have either made it clear that they were not assuming the previous companies responsibilities at the start or sucked it up and accepted them afterward. When I searched for an engine builder for my Cobra, I was able to find at least one horror story about every place I considered. Its not the fact that they made mistakes because everyone does. Its how they handle it afterward. Forced Fab did not handle it in a professional manner (neither did the guy complaining on the web BTW). But, when a customer tries to get help from the BBB and the company response is as childish as Forced Fab's response, they deserve getting the backlash they got.

[MikesMerc]

The internet sword cuts both ways. Treat your customers right and it can be your best friend. Treat them wrong, and its your worst nightmare. The net is just another medium of communication. Nothing more, nothing less.

If I was on the other end of all the broken promises the poster has endured, I'd be inclined to post the same thing. In the end, the general opinion of the readers prevails anyway. Threads speaking out against vendors with solid track records rarely get traction when the happy customers speak up and call the bluff.

The internet brings plenty of good things (and plenty of $$) to vendors. Its only fair that they are held accountable by the same information technology.

[MikesMerc]

Btw, warpath, I hear you loud and clear about Livernois. I stay FAR FAR away from that place. That shop is just the boys' hobby while mommy makes all the money doing engineering work for the big 3. For all the horror stories I've heard about that shop, I've yet to speak to one, just one, happy customer. They are talked about poorly all up and down Woodward Ave on friday and Saturday nights. To be honest, I don't see how they are still in business.

[Warpath]

I hear the same thing. I've have not met anyone who doesn't know someone screwed by them. As I mentioned previously, they changed their name to Detroit Speed Shops. They bought Ramchargers and have used 2 of their locations to start the new business. It also seems as though Detroit Speed Works became part of the company. They did joint ventures before. When I look up Detroit Speed Works address, it comes up as one of the Detroit Speed Shops name.