Well, they did.

[MAD-3R]

They denyed the warrenty. After tearing the motor apart, they found that no oil was getting to the berrings. Those that wern't welded on, had no oil film over them. They claim the lower pully was torqued on to tight, and prevented the oil pump from functioning. That, and the computer was tampered with, (ie. Chip) TIme for the fight.

[merc406]

WTH does the lower puley have to do with the oil pump ad how did they measure the torque pulling it off?

[MAD-3R]

I'm going to be stopping by there tomarow to talk with them.

[tomd]

Is there anything Dennis can say or do to help show the chip was not the cause?

[LincMercLover]

Pulley bolted on too tight? :bs: I don't even check torque on the pullies when I replace water pumps, and all my vehicles are fine! And how's a chip going to hinder an oil pump? Please... You've got a case buddy, fight it, get a cobra motor, flip 'em off, and walk away :D

[MAD-3R]

Just the missing panel is there only case on the computer.

[prchrman]

:depress::down: sickening...feel for you man...fight the legal fight...hope everything turns out ok...too tight torque :confused:

[WolfeBros]

This is very bad news. Sorry Mad.
We are all pulling for you here. Hopefully there is a way to fight this. For the rest of us........remember that this board is a public forum and most likely is monitored. I would discuss this with MAD thru PM's only if you have advice to offer. :(

[SaxGuy]

I'm reall sorry that they denied you the warranty on the engine. I would definetely tell you to seek out legal advice, and be prepared for a huge uphill battle. Modding you car is a risk that you either take, or not take. With the poor economy, and lagging sales I'm sure FOMCO will use anything they can to limit high claim warranty work. As for modding the computer in your car, the Pontiac dealer told me that since this chip monitors rev limits, how the engine is operating, etc etc etc, tampering with it would void anything that is engine and transmission related. I had a friend in the same situation who endedup going to court and losing due to said modification. In a lot of modern manuals, their is a section on what happens if you mod anything in you car. I happened to notice this section in my manual, and upon reading the fine print on my contract. I hope everything goes your way though! Fight it to the end!!!

[Macon Marauder]

The Voice of Cold Hard Reason doesn't know what to say...
:(

[MMM2003]

Hey Mad-3R,

Now I feel really guilty about my little smart ass comment earlier today. I'll send you a PM I got from KB. Maybe it'll help.

Good luck !

[O's Fan Rich]

Hope it goes well. Along with Wolfe, I'd aks LML to clear out all references to this situation or edit them yourself.
Pulley torque screwing up the oil pump? WTH?Am I missing half my brain? No comprenda, amigo.

[LincMercLover]

OK, MAD, PM me if you want things to disappear. No biggie buddy...

But I ask this question to all of you. Why not leave the rev limiter in the ECM? Meaning, DR and whoever NOT remove it with their chip programs. What's it hurting? The car still shifts at that 6100 or so near red line number. What's the point of taking the rev limiter off? Not to deffend Ford or anything right now, cause I'm extremely upset with them concerning this, but wouldn't that make them a lot happier?

[Macon Marauder]

Thought the chip just moved the limit up. Am I wrong?

[Hemlock]

HOW MANY MILES ON THE CAR ? DO YOU HAVE THE FACTORY EXTENDED WARRANTY ? DID YOUR DEALER DO ALL SERVICE WORK ON THE CAR ? HOPE THIS WILL WORK OUT FOR YOU WITHOUT ANY GIANT EXPENSE . DID THE ENGINE GIVE ANY WARNING BEFORE ITS FAILURE ?

[MAD-3R]

8000

yes

no

Thanks

No

[Blue Marauder]

Hate to say this, but I think this board is now finding out what the Lightning folks learned a long time ago - mod your vehicle at your own risk. Ford will do anything they can to get out of a warranty claim.

Although not directly related to MAD's problem, this thread might provide a valuable lesson.

http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115040

[UncleLar]

MAD3-R ,I'm in your corner,I probably can't do much to help,but if there is I will.

[capt512]

Mad 3-r,
I'm a new MM owner but I've gotten a lot of good advice from the people here. We are all behind you in this fight and can only wish you the best of luck.

It seems to me that the Bull about the torqued pulley came from Bizarro world. I'd love to hear how the Pulley effects the oil pump.

They'll probably drop that issue and go with the Chip for a denial.
Maybe DR can help you.

Hang in there.
Mike

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
They denyed the warrenty. After tearing the motor apart, they found that no oil was getting to the berrings. Those that wern't welded on, had no oil film over them. They claim the lower pully was torqued on to tight, and prevented the oil pump from functioning. That, and the computer was tampered with, (ie. Chip) TIme for the fight.


Please call me when you can, I can help with this.

[FLA RAUD FAN]

MAD,
Hate to hear that news, It's probably too early to consider this option, but there is a new marauder engine on E-bay as we speak. Buy it Now for $3200.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2413208197&rd=1
I hope it doesn't come to that for you. Good luck and hopefully DR can help.
JP

[jefferson-mo]

perhaps if we had a 'real' oil pressure guage or perhaps a light to back up the guage this could have been prevented?

maybe it could help in your defense:mad:

[DLoreanMARAUDER]

MAN THAT SUCKS! im sorry to hear that. sounds like a poor excuse. didnt your car come that way;)! oh man, that pisses me off. FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT! Hope everything works out. if not we can make it work out :uzi:



Originally posted by jefferson-mo
perhaps if we had a 'real' oil pressure guage or perhaps a light to back up the guage this could have been prevented?

maybe it could help in your defense:mad:

I like this idea. maybe even get some compensation for "EMOTIONAL DISTRESS". turn it around, make such a big deal that they will offer a whole new car!

[jgc61sr2002]

MAD 3R - Sorry about your situtation. I hope that everything works out for you. No the battle begins. FMC was looking for anything to hang their hat on. So the next move is yours. Good Luck. John:(

[ChuckB]

Crap-ola MAD,

so sorry and a bit angry to the feable excuses from the ford guys, but kind of expected. Man now more than ever do***ent everything. Warrenty denial show come in some written form. Find out what you signed when you bought the car as far as arbitration ect.

went thru this - if there's anything i can do as far as sharing my experiences just PM and we'll get together for a chat.


best of lucks..

[01 Interceptor]

Good luck and fight the good fight. If you win, you will set a precedent...that will pave the way for MM owners everywhere.

[merc406]

The news about FoMoCo and the bad blood with it's dealers isn't new and don't know if that has come into play here. Check out the site ( blue oval news ) think it's in the links, and see if you can learn anything before you go back about dealers and product.

[Logan]

I'd certainly put up a fight. Ford has a customer dispute resolution procedure, contact Ford Corporate customer service to start the process if your local dealer gives you grief.

Fortunately if all else fails, Marauder long blocks aren't that expensive, compared to some of the other motors. You can get them alot cheaper through Kar Kraft than Ford.

[RCSignals]

Mad 3r, there was a discussion a while back on something similar, on BON, i think in the "Dear Bill" forum

A guy had a Harley Davidson truck, had chipped it, and the engine blew. The dealer took pictures of the port to show it had been chipped, sent them to ford. Ford supposedly sent out a rep who declared the chip was responsible, and the engine would not be replaced under warranty.
The guy discovered that his engine hadn't actually been disassembled, just "examined". He pushed for it to be disassembled and inspected. It was discovered that main cap bolts had somehow come loose and a couple had fallen into the pan. This in itself is an odd scenario, but Ford couldn't prove that it was caused by the chip, so they then agreed to replace the engine. He also got them to agree to extend his powertrain warranty, and put in writing something about using a chip.

It is Ford's responsibility to PROVE your alterations caused the problem

You can look there for the thread, but BON doesn't have a search capability.

[03 Merc]

MAD-3R,

Here is a link to the best info commonly available I have seen. It may help you line up resources for your rebuttal.

http://www.enjoythedrive.com/content/?id=8124

BTW the Pulley issue has been beat to death on the Cobra boards. If you do some some research on them you will see claims were often denied for pullies on the 99 and 01 Cobras. Especially if you removed / replaced the harmonic balancer. The crankshaft then gets out of alignment, twists, and screws up the main bearings. Other claims were due to folks hammering the pullies on and screwing them up that way. I had a 01 Cobra before the MM and knew folks that had this happen. Their claims were also denied and they did not win on appeals...

I hope the link helps..

[MAD-3R]

Over torque is :bs:
No balancer... not :bs: :(

[WolfeBros]

Running without a balancer will be tough to beat. :(
Don't give up.....keep after them. Sure hate it that you have to go thru all of this. The rest of you guys with underdrive pullies......check your installation ! MAD I will PM you with something that you might use as ammo to help fight this.

[mdmarauder]

I was afraid this would happan. No mods for me.

[jerrym3]

Ford refused to correct a vibration on my 1985 Turbocoupe because the vibration occured at 60-65, which was over the NJ 55 mph speed limit. When I told them that some states still had speed limits over 55, the factory rep told me to get the car repaired there.

I appealed to a customer review board composed of representatives from Ford and consumer advocates. I even included copies of Ford magazine advertisements bragging about 0-60 times and the new (at that time) suspension that "automatically stiffens up at speeds over 60".

Result? They threw out my appeal. Case closed.

I wish you luck.

[LincMercLover]

You didn't have the balancer on?!?!

[WolfeBros]

He had some underdrive pullies on. The kind where you are supposed to bolt the OEM pulley back onto the underdrive.
He mistakenly did not. Apparently it is an easy mistake to make.
A very costly one too. Another member of this board got his back on after discussion on here revealed the mistake. No sense mentioning names in case there are some warranty weenies lurking on here.:(

[LincMercLover]

But was the balancer on it during break down and tear down?

[MAD-3R]

No

[duhtroll]

Well, if you don't have the extended warranty you can just wait until the warranty expires at 36K (which I will reach 1.5 years after delivery - - or less).

I will most likely do this for that reason, and well for the fact that teachers just don't get paid much. :depressed:

Thanks,
-A

[Mark McQuaide]

So what are the lessons here?

1) The dealer/Ford WILL look at the computer for evidence of a chip, and assume it was there even if it's removed before the car goes in.

2) Motors fail for a reason, and the chip and gears mods haven't caused any motors to fail that I know of

3) I'd say someone with the basic chip and gears mods would still have a chance of getting powertrain warranty coverage if it could be shown that the cause was not related to the mods.

Still chancy, but hey, life is short. I'm still debating whether to do it. I have the 100,000 mile extended warranty.

[RF Overlord]

I agree...chips and gears do not cause motors to fail...neither do underdrive pulleys...MAD's motor apparently failed due to the balancer not being in place...

Mark, if you're still considering whether to do any of the "usual" mods (chip, gears, pulleys, TC, mufflers, etc), it's not just the mods themselves you should be concerned with, it's also the wrench who installs them...I don't know who installed MAD's pulleys, and it may indeed have been an easy mistake, but nonetheless, it was that mistake that killed his motor, not the mod. LOTS of motors are already out there with underdrives installed for years, and they've had no issues; same goes for chips, gears, etc.

I don't know how much you drive, but if you wait for 100,000 miles to do your mods, you'll be missing out on a WHOLE LOT of fun...as you said, life is short.

[cyclone03]

I don't think I would fight this,the lack of a balancer pretty much nails you to the wall.
Find a local Mustang speed shop take the car there if you cant do the work and purchase one of those stroker kits!
I;m sure the dealer will charge you for tearing the motor apart but make sure they don't charge you R&R on the engine,they never did the second "R",reinstall.Make sure ALL the parts are returned to you.
Like has been said most line mech. don't rebuild the engines the just replace them,so I don't think you'll get a good labor rate to rebuild the engine at the dealer.
All that said can you go after the guy who installed the pulleys?

[LincMercLover]

Yup, you're pretty much done with the lack of a balancer. Sorry man...

So, where do you go from here? Do you opt for a cobra motor, the stock block, or full out V10? Despite the negitivity, you've got the option (although maybe not financially at this time) to have a real screamer. Good luck!

[MAD-3R]

I got some feelers out there. I will deffently keep you all posted.

[Fourth Horseman]

Mad, I'm really bummed to hear about the dealer trying to mess with ya, bud. :( I hope you can wage a good legal fight and make them pay. :mad2:

I have to say, it's sort of got me rethinking how badly I want chip and gears now. Argh.

[MAD-3R]

Don't let it affect the decition. If I had it to do over again, the ONLY thing I would have changed, was to have the car taken to my wrench, to remove them and reinstall the originals. Thats it.

[Wags]

Let's keep this in perspective guys. Don't let this keep people from doing the chip and gears. This failure looks like it was caused by the balancer problem. If this is really what the cause was, then Ford has a legit beef. I have NEVER seen problems with chips in cars, except ones that were VERY agresively programmed, pushing limits on many different parameters (and usually juice is involved). I would think that there is some recourse for MAD-3R from the place who did the wrenching for this mod. Just my opinion.

Wags

[MAD-3R]

Ok, just to let everyone know. I, am an adult. I take responsability for my actions. I made the decition to have the Mods put in. I knew the risks.

I have spoken to all the people involved, and am satified.
Nuff said.

[Mark McQuaide]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
Ok, just to let everyone know. I, am an adult. I take responsability for my actions.

Now that's something you don't hear often enough!

Good luck with the rebuild!

[MassMarauder]

What angers me is that we have to modify this vehicle to get it to perform like it SHOULD have from the factory. I pulled the chip the other day. I'd forgotten how poorly that transmission behaves.
Unexcusable

[Blue Marauder]

Originally posted by MassMarauder
What angers me is that we have to modify this vehicle to get it to perform like it SHOULD have from the factory. I pulled the chip the other day. I'd forgotten how poorly that transmission behaves.
Unexcusable

I guess if Marauders (and Lightnings and Cobras, etc.) performed like they "should have from the factory" then all of the tuners would be out of work. And I bet you would still be unhappy.

[FordNut]

Sounds like a good time to round up a Cobra engine and get the stronger bottom end. Or maybe one of the new 5.0 DOHC crate motors. Look at the bright side, this is a prime opportunity to do some real mods instead of all the bolt-on stuff we've been trying so far.

[RCSignals]

Or maybe one of the new 5.0 DOHC crate motors

Now there is a plan

[martyo]

Mad: Let me know if you want to trade cars with me. Check my signature for my mod's. My car has (and has always has had) the underdrives with the balancer. The car has about 2,800 miles on it and will soon have a Fordchip power tune.

Obviously we would have to work out the terms, as well as figure out how to get your car and what is left of the motor to my shop in New York, but if you are interested, let me know and we can talk.......

[B-26]

Don't give up so easy. Appeal the decision. Ask to see the LM rep. Talk to the dealer. Even if they meet you half way parts or labor it is 50% better than walking away. You MIGHT buy another Mercury some day and they are concerned about that. Opinions even mine, are just that. Tell them about the forum and that we are watching. Potential customers are watching.

[LincMercLover]

Marty,

Hey! I thought you were modding my car next?!?! ;)

[Warpath]

Originally posted by RF Overlord
I agree...chips and gears do not cause motors to fail...neither do underdrive pulleys...

Chips can damage an engine in short time - with or without a power adder. If the tuner doesn't know what their doing, you won't even get home without a problem. I know from experience.

I have heard stories about underdrive pullies damaging cam gears. I have nothing to back it up though. So, I'll leave it at that.

JMO - Seems as though everyone here is upset (before the root cause was known) that Ford is denying the claim. I guess I am the only one who agrees with Ford. If you modify a vehicle (or anything for that matter) beyond what it was originally designed to do, you are responsible for the outcome. I see it as being the same as those fat people suing McDonalds for making them fat or the old lady suing them cause the coffee burned her crotch. I'm not flaming anyone in particular. Its just a general comment.

[merc406]

Wow martyo that is a really nice offer, proves Marauder guys stick together. The best to you.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Originally posted by tomd
Is there anything Dennis can say or do to help show the chip was not the cause?


The chip was NEVER the cause, and the chip does not invalidate the warranty, They have to prove that what you installed caused a motor failure.

[MAD-3R]

Thanks for the support and all the encuragement I have recieved here. Some things have been brought to my attention, and I am persuing them. The parts were good, the install was at error.

As for the Chip, I had a Dyno pulled not a week before the engine went boom, and it was beutiful smooth and sweet! No, the chip was fine.

The failur was of the oil pump, most likely because of the lack of the pullies were not installed properly. In this case, Ford is correct. My bad.

I am going to ask that this thread be closed.

[Bigdogjim]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
Ok, just to let everyone know. I, am an adult. I take responsability for my actions. I made the decition to have the Mods put in. I knew the risks.

I have spoken to all the people involved, and am satified.
Nuff said.

Mad I have never meet or talked to just read the post. I however have to raise my beer glass to you! Took guts in my book to post that. :beer:
You sir have my respect.
Best of luck
If I can ever be of help let me know!
Big Dog :beer:

[MAD-3R]

Well,.... Got an extra 4.6 DOHC Marauder Motor laying around?

:lol:

[LincMercLover]

Closed per request.