Tuner questions...

[Vortech347]

Ok so I'm either gona go with Lidio's or Dennis's Xcal2s....

From what I've read they each have their uniqueness reguarding transmission control. Power wise from what I've been reading they are extremely close.

The Microtuner I have now allows me to adjust shift points and firmness do the xcal2's let ya do this too? I had to turn the line pressure down in 3-4 shift because it just felt like a clunky shift. But I've also been told its got a pretty woosie program that maybe gives me 10hp for the MM's

And yes I've searched. ALOT I've spent the past week trying to figure out which one to go with...

Who's had a tune from each? Differences in driving?? Should I just flip a coin?? Help!!:help:

[fastblackmerc]

I went with DR's tune but I don't think it really matters because both Lidio's & DR's tunes are "generic" for our Marauder. Not every MM is equal so the best thing is to get it dyno-tuned, this way you have a specific tune for YOUR Marauder.
Let's not start any wars over this!

[MI2QWK4U]

Do yourself a favor and get Lidios tune. The differences in transmission tuning and torque converter lockup are what makes Lidios tune unique, not generic, for the Marauder. Knowing what Lid knows about our motor and trans from the Mustang applications allows him to really tune for what you have as a setup. I can say that I honestly believe that if I had ANYONE elses tune on my Marauder, I wouldnt have the awesum results, and done safely, and would have probably blown my motor like others have had happen. Keep in mind that my motor is completely stock, not rebuilt or fordged, and it is throwing out MORE horsepower and torque than some that have had built motors put in their Marauder. No one above me in the timeslip page has a stock motor putting out what mine does, why does it survive, its the tune. Like you said, you did some reading on tuning, and have an idea what sounds good to you. The one thing that Lid is known for accross the US and Canada is tuning. Good luck!

[alarmguy]

I may be mistaken, but doesn't this site have a self proclaimed Official Pot-Stirrer?

[prchrman]

I may be mistaken, but doesn't this site have a self proclaimed Official Pot-Stirrer?

There's more than one...:argue:

[magindat]

I may be mistaken, but doesn't this site have a self proclaimed Official Pot-Stirrer?

Yes, I believe that would be Mr. KillJoy.

As far as the tuner, I got DR's. My decision was based on previous purchases and geography. I live 4hrs from DR's shop. I live 40 hours from Lidio's. Both are expereinced 'experts' at 4.6. I cannot say I favored one over the other to begin with. I ordered from Dennis originally cuz he answered his phone. Now I enjoy 1 day delivery of parts (cuz he's close) and great service (cuz all our vendors give good service).

I like the tune. The car is more 'lively'. I have a few more mods B4 I take it to dyno to 'bring it all together'.

I have no doubt you'll be happy with either.

[TopCat]

It seams like most of the Florida guys have gone with Lidio or that guy at Diablo sport. I have a tune from Lidio and am very happy with it.

[Smokie]

Ok so I'm either gona go with Lidio's or Dennis's Xcal2s....

From what I've read they each have their uniqueness reguarding transmission control. Power wise from what I've been reading they are extremely close.

The Microtuner I have now allows me to adjust shift points and firmness do the xcal2's let ya do this too? I had to turn the line pressure down in 3-4 shift because it just felt like a clunky shift. But I've also been told its got a pretty woosie program that maybe gives me 10hp for the MM's

And yes I've searched. ALOT I've spent the past week trying to figure out which one to go with...

Who's had a tune from each? Differences in driving?? Should I just flip a coin?? Help!!:help:

This reply is based on tuning for a stock Marauder, not any kind of custom tuning for Special applications or S/C'er.

Tune purchased from Dennis Reinhart Summer 2003 results:

Track: 14.49 @ 97.51 backed up with several 14.5's temp. mid 60's, hum. 65%. perfect shifts. All information provided was achieved on tune ALONE, no gears, exhaust, t/c or special tires and wheels. STOCK plus tune. Notice I present no preferences, I am providing you with facts only. I consider Lidio the finest CUSTOM tuner, you did not ask about CUSTOM tuning.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/2/4/8/DynorunMedium.jpg

[MikesMerc]

Obviously Lidio does all my tuning (and has done so for about 15 years), so that makes my opinion bias. But, that said, consider the fact that although the tunes between all the vendors has become "close" in comparison today, it was Lidio who began tuning the transmission aspect first (as well as some of the other variables).

If you go back and look (do a search), you'll find that Lid was initially criticized for his shift point slections and especially is torque converter lock up settings. Some "other tuners" as well as "shade tree mechanics" crticized that these changes would cause too much trans heat and other problems that simply never came to be. Lid had been tuning the 4R70W long before the Marauder scene happened, as he had been a fan of the AODE trans for years. He knew what he was doing regardless of what the others thought.

What's funny is that over time the "other tuners" have changed their minds. Frankly, they saw Lidio's success and his happy customers and adjusted their own approach to address the same issues and mimick many of his trans tweaks.

Bottom line....I put my faith in the guy that knew what he was doing with these cars from the beginning.

[KillJoy]

Well, as the OFFICIAL POT-STIRRER, I would recommend EITHER! I had a SCT Chip installed that had a Lidio Tune on it, and had an almost identical Dyno Pull as Smokie shows up above.

Seeing as how you are in Utah, nowhere near either, I would just pick one. Quality and Customer Service are about equal. Choose based on Price, or whose name you like better. It really won't matter! You'll love either!

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

I have had dyno tunes from both Jerry Wrobleski (Founder, SCT) and Lidio. Both use the same software and similar approaches to tuning, I cannot imagine one man better than the other. However, they do treat tranny settings remarkably different.

I tried Lidio's tranny settings and found them difficult to manage on my home turf. This is due to the way I drive my Marauder, and I am not being critical of Lidio and his skills. He's an excellent tuner and a very sharp man. But, his recommended settings for the TC lockup were incompatabile with my driving style.

Jerry is reluctant to put too much performance into the tranny via a software adjustment. There's a limit where he feels it's more effective to apply his "J-Mod", and use tuning software to add some "english" to the tune. I have to agree with this, Jerry built my 4R70W back in October of '03, and he applied his J-Mod and his tuning, and it hasn't been touched since. Still rock solid, with crisp clean shifts.

I know Lidio favors the Bauman stuff, I hope maybe he'll drop in an explain this for us. It's rarely mentioned here and some folks may not know about it.

[bigslim]

PM MarauderMike, he had them both. I remember him saying after he he rode in my car that he liked Lidio's tune better. He said that he liked the shift points that Lidio tune made.

Also, I never had a problem with everyday driving. I drive very agressively had I loved Lidio's tune. Anyone that I know that drives their car like a "Real Man" loved Lidio's tune.

[Rider90]

I'm almost satisfied with Lidio's tune. The best tune I ever got was from Scott Beer, but I don't want to run it on my S/C Marauder without a dyno and accurate A/F reading.

[ckadiddle]

Flip a coin! Both have many happy customers, and both support our mm.net. I am happy with my Reinhart "generic" tune-by-mail. It's sooo much better than the stock setup as far as power and shifting. Adds more pep to the low RPM end, fixes the constant shifting up and down at low speeds in town. I chose Reinhart because of location.
Besides, you just gotta love a man that wears this:
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f129/ckadiddle/MVC-596F.jpg

[BruteForce]

I don't think I'd lean for Reinhart if it blew up Mark's Marauder.

Check List for Posting About a Vendor:

1. Do I have personal experience with the vendor? If not what do I base my opinion on?
2. Is what I am posting conjecture, as in based on opinion and not proven/acknowledged fact?
3. Does my comment contribute to the thread in a constructive manner (i.e., answers OP's questions without extra side trips)?
4. Does my comment serve to only re-enforce unfounded gossip?

[KillJoy]

Check List for Posting About a Vendor:

1. Do I have personal experience with the vendor? If not what do I base my opinion on?
2. Is what I am posting conjecture, as in based on opinion and not proven/acknowledged fact?
3. Does my comment contribute to the thread in a constructive manner (i.e., answers OP's questions without extra side trips)?
4. Does my comment serve to only re-enforce unfounded gossip?

:popcorn:

KillJoy

[Rider90]

Check List for Posting About a Vendor:

1. Do I have personal experience with the vendor? If not what do I base my opinion on?
2. Is what I am posting conjecture, as in based on opinion and not proven/acknowledged fact?
3. Does my comment contribute to the thread in a constructive manner (i.e., answers OP's questions without extra side trips)?
4. Does my comment serve to only re-enforce unfounded gossip?
Man I can't even find that thread, how long did you search for?

Personal Experience with Reinhart? You bet. Personal experience with being told "It will ship Tuesday" and "It will ship Friday" and "It will ship next week" all on the same order.

Constructive? I suggested another tuner that has been mentioned on this site with outstanding results.

[SergntMac]

I suggested another tuner that has been mentioned on this site with outstanding results. Yeah, but can he deliver a real man's tune...

[Rider90]

Yeah, but can he deliver a real man's tune...
I'd be curious to know what the parameters of the transmission shift schedule and timing advances would be for that tune

[Smokie]

Well now you know why I posted factual numbers for a member to interprept his own way...once again it gets personal.:(

[fastblackmerc]

That's why I said let's not start a war about this.

IMHO a non-stock tune fom any vendor that has experience with Marauders is better than the stock tune. I still believe that each Mauauder is different and that you need a dyno tune to take into account those differences.

[KillJoy]

Things like "which is better" will always become personal.

Everyone is fond of the way the way they went, therefore, every other way sucks.

Someone will always lash out against a Vendor anytime they have the opprotunity.

I agree, personal attacks towards ONE vendor was not warranted here. If necessary, it should have been PM'd to the original poster, and only positive, or negative, comments about the TUNE itself should be shown here.

KillJoy

[DarthMarauder]

I have Killjoys old SCT chip and went up to Lidio's shop to have it retuned for my PCM and I have to say the knowledge Lidio has and the difference it made to my stock MM was unbelievable. So of course my opinion will have to be I like the Lidio tune. I like that he is close enough that when I start adding bolt on toys I can just drive up there and get the tune redone.

[gpfarrell]

I don't have any experience with DR's set-up, so I can't comment on it.

I have Lidio's out-of-the-box tune in my car and it is the single best, no-compromises modification I've ever made to a car.

I giggled the first time I romped on it with the new tune.

Day-to-day moderate driving is fantastic, much better than sickly stock.

WOT is all I could hope for in a 4200 lb car with just an attitude adjustment.

No regrets. Plug & play.

[Smokie]

I have Killjoys old SCT chip and went up to Lidio's shop to have it retuned for my PCM and I have to say the knowledge Lidio has and the difference it made to my stock MM was unbelievable. So of course my opinion will have to be I like the Lidio tune. I like that he is close enough that when I start adding bolt on toys I can just drive up there and get the tune redone.

I already tried to bribe Lidio into moving to Florida.:D If he did, Florida would have Dennis, Lidio and Scott Beer...now if only Jerry would open a franchise in Florida...say Ft. Myers....Florida would become Marauder heaven..........:lol:

[DarthMarauder]

I already tried to bribe Lidio into moving to Florida.:D If he did, Florida would have Dennis, Lidio and Scott Beer...now if only Jerry would open a franchise in Florida...say Ft. Myers....Florida would become Marauder heaven..........:lol:

Us Michigan boys gotta have someone... :lol: We are the motor city.

[GreekGod]

I couldn't tell much difference when I installed Lidios tune with the SCT I got from him. Perhaps I'm not a very perceptive pilot. Perhaps my ass dyno needs calibration. Perhaps subtle changes require dyno chart confirmation. Perhaps they require 1/4 mile before and after timeslips! Perhaps I will find out next month at...

Martin US 131 Motorsports Park. Sunday! Sunday!...

[thePunisher]

me a many others have a tune from sal at www.powersurgeperformance.net (http://www.powersurgeperformance.net) and we loved the results. the power gains were damn good and the trans was tweaked nicely. behaved like a different car altogether. if you are interested links to pics of his dyno session with other marauder owners is in my sig.

[Blackened300a]

me a many others have a tune from sal at www.powersurgeperformance.net (http://www.powersurgeperformance.net) and we loved the results. the power gains were damn good and the trans was tweaked nicely. behaved like a different car altogether. if you are interested links to pics of his dyno session with other marauder owners is in my sig.

I absolutly agree With this. He has set-up my car and I couldnt ask for a better tune.
Sal is very popular among lightning owners since 1995

[MI2QWK4U]

This isnt meant to be a bash on any vendor post. Please dont make it so. If you have experience with a tune you received from a tuner, share it with the group.
Since I dont have experience with Dennis or Scott as a tuner, you wont hear me critique their products. I have had the experience of watching Lidio develop a tune for a car from scratch....not modify an existing program, rather take a car and application, and jump in and work out a base tune. From there he fine tunes it for individual applications or takes it further with a personal hands on dyno/street driving tune. I think he also brings the experience of working on the 4.6 and our transmissions for as long as they have been put in mustangs. Watching Lid and Jerry W work out a tune for a car is fascinating to watch, and I can say I have sat back with a coke and box of popcorn and watch that happen at his shop twice! I have driven in other Marauders with other tunes, doesnt matter which it was, the trans tune and torque converter lockup trick that Lid does was worth the nod. My trans also has a Bauman shift kit as well as the spring mod thing, and in combination with Lids tune, feels great.

Thats it. My experience with a tuner. Do your research and pick one, I am positive you will be happy no matter what way you go.

Keep the posts constructive and without vendor bashing.

[MikesMerc]

Dave,

I hope you didn't take my post as vendor bashing. I didn't specify the names of any other tuners or shade tree mechanics. I mentioned lidio on one hand, and pretty much "everyone else" in the other. Go back and search the forums and you'll quickly see where Lidio was given a hard time for his trans tuning techniques. His trans tweaks were discussed well over 2 years ago in detail here on mm.net. And he caught some flak for it. I just think it is absolutely comical that everyone else is now doing the same thing! I'm just suggesting that folks go with a tuning leader instead of those that just mimmick another's approach to tuning.

[TooManyFords]

Just sharing my personal settings for Shift and Trans Lock schedules. I'm setting these via SCT ProRacer.

Torque Converter Lock / Unlock:

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/trans/torquelock.jpg

And the Shift Schedule:

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/trans/shiftsched.jpg

For reference, my car has 4:30's and a 3500 stall converter. I have it so that at anything other than the lightest throttle it will stay in 1st, 2nd and 3rd longer. The converter will lock under normal throttle at 42MPH because our normal cruising strip is 45. Under WOT, the convertor will lock as soon as it hits 2nd gear and stays locked (except when shifting) for racing.

I'm sharing in the hopes others share theirs too.

Cheers!

John

[MI2QWK4U]

Dave,

I hope you didn't take my post as vendor bashing. I didn't specify the names of any other tuners or shade tree mechanics. I mentioned lidio on one hand, and pretty much "everyone else" in the other. Go back and search the forums and you'll quickly see where Lidio was given a hard time for his trans tuning techniques. His trans tweaks were discussed well over 2 years ago in detail here on mm.net. And he caught some flak for it. I just think it is absolutely comical that everyone else is now doing the same thing! I'm just suggesting that folks go with a tuning leader instead of those that just mimmick another's approach to tuning.


Nope, not at all. People are sharing good information and it would be easy for things to derail and get an informative thread closed. Just a generic reminder. And yes, I do remember when Lidio was rather visciously rebuked about his torque converter and trans tweaks. The very same tunes and tweaks that he has been doing for years with that trans and motor setup in the Mustangs, just like you mentioned, well before the Marauder came around. This is a thread for info on tuning and tuners.

[Brutus]

Just sharing my personal settings for Shift and Trans Lock schedules. I'm setting these via SCT ProRacer.



And the Shift Schedule:

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/trans/shiftsched.jpg

For reference, my car has 4:30's and a 3500 stall converter. I have it so that at anything other than the lightest throttle it will stay in 1st, 2nd and 3rd longer. The converter will lock under normal throttle at 42MPH because our normal cruising strip is 45. Under WOT, the convertor will lock as soon as it hits 2nd gear and stays locked (except when shifting) for racing.

I'm sharing in the hopes others share theirs too.

Cheers!

John

John, could you explain the shift scedule for me. Im assuming the colors correspond to the gear as in the first graph. Is one upshift and the other downshift??

[Vortech347]

Thank you for all the information folks. Its just so close I wanted others valued opinions and experiences.

I could get my car dynotuned here at the local SCT Mustang shop but he dosn't have anything special about the tranny programs. Where as I drive my car alot fo business and I'm hauling around people its important that the shifts durring normal driving are smooth and consistant. Also I know from experience that setting up a trans correctly can mean .2-3 in the 1/4 with the same car!

[SergntMac]

I'm sharing in the hopes others share theirs too.

Cheers! John Sorry I don't have any graphs, but my shift schedule is about the same as John's. TC lock-up after 2-3 shift, OD kicks in at 37 MPH, if applying a cruise throttle. Light to mild throttle unlocks everything and restores 3rd gear. Mild to medium throttle triggers 3-2 down shift.

It all really still kinda close to the OEM settings, just with some added seasoning...BAM!

[jstevens]

Go with Lidio.

[TooManyFords]

John, could you explain the shift scedule for me. Im assuming the colors correspond to the gear as in the first graph. Is one upshift and the other downshift??

Yes, exactly. Look at the MPH on the left and Throttle Position across the bottom. My MM reaches WOT at approximately 700 TP as a reference point.

John

[Brutus]

Yes, exactly. Look at the MPH on the left and Throttle Position across the bottom. My MM reaches WOT at approximately 700 TP as a reference point.

John

Gotcha. Thanks!

[Vortech347]

I decided to go with Dennis. It was within a flip of a coin but Alternative didn't want to do a price match or any shipping perk. Figure 15$ for shipping it was a 35$ difference.

3.73's go in sat and the xcal should be here monday or tuesday. Woot woot.