Want more bump in the trunk?

[KillJoy]

I have been debating whether or not to post this. Wanted to try it out first, and see how it worked. However, I have decided to go a completely different route.

There is a company out called Elemental Designs. They have just released a 6.5" Subwoofer that will work in an enclosure as small as .15cf (.20cf is recommended), and up to .40cf. They are currently priced at $50 SHIPPED.

My thought is this would make an excellent factory subwoofer upgrade, and not a lot of $$$. If anyone does this, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

Check them out here:

http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=15&pid=32&tab=Specs&cur=USD

KillJoy

[Blackened300a]

I changed the 6.5 sub speaker for a better speaker and it sounds like crap. The stock one is best for the amp and the enclosure.
However there is a 6.5 Proset that I want to try. I can buy it down on Canal Street here in NY for $35

[rvaldez1]

That is basically a midrange woofer, many different makers have them in component sets or separate. But, you will have to buy a seperate amp. If you really want more bass, buy new speakers, or add a small 8" or 10" next to the spare. I have installed one of these in a town car in a small box, it sounds great.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-109niZHHlhI/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=130TSS3041

Pioneer also offers a 10'', and you can get them at sounddomain.com for half the price.

[MarauderMarc]

I replaced my OEM sub with a MA Audio 6.5 and its a little better, but really, If you want a bit more bump you can simply get a 10" sub and amp for 150 or less and it will sound great. Shakes_26 has an Infinity 10" sub with a small amp and it sounds really nice.

[MNMarauder]

I have two 8 inch free air subs that will work in the opening used for the factory sub if anyone is interested. I tried it and went back to two ten inch subs in a box. they are much louder.

Won't screw another member. i will warn you that I personally was not impressed with the 8 inch subs performance.

they are made by kicker and i'll sell them seperate.

[magindat]

I have two 8 inch free air subs that will work in the opening used for the factory sub if anyone is interested. I tried it and went back to two ten inch subs in a box. they are much louder.

Won't screw another member. i will warn you that I personally was not impressed with the 8 inch subs performance.

they are made by kicker and i'll sell them seperate.

It's not the fault of the subs....

Free air or infinite baffle only works if you make the baffle infinite. Huh?

All front of cone air must be blocked from back of cone air. This means all 'holes' must be sealed. You would have to board over the supports behind the back seat and foam any gaps on the shelf.

The purpose of a box is two-fold. First, it must seal (or control with a port) the interaction of the front pressure wave vs the back. Second, the size and (if used) port determine a resonant (or sweet-spot) frequency.

Everyone hates free-air cuz they don't do it right.

I built and owned the most successful free-air cars in this area. It took way longer than a box and was way harder.

Further, free-air speakers require a high-quality amp. Since there is no cushion of air stopping the cone, the amp must stop it electrically. This requires a high quality, high dollar, class A circuitry amp. Our factory amp does not fall into that category.

[magindat]

I have been debating whether or not to post this. Wanted to try it out first, and see how it worked. However, I have decided to go a completely different route.

There is a company out called Elemental Designs. They have just released a 6.5" Subwoofer that will work in an enclosure as small as .15cf (.20cf is recommended), and up to .40cf. They are currently priced at $50 SHIPPED.

My thought is this would make an excellent factory subwoofer upgrade, and not a lot of $$$. If anyone does this, PLEASE LET ME KNOW!

Check them out here:

http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=15&pid=32&tab=Specs&cur=USD

KillJoy
I'd like to answer your PM publicly.

The sight looks nice and amps look nice. Speakers are impressive by description. I have a problem, though.

They say for some of their speakers that they can go small box, port box or infinite baffle. Each of those applications use a very different Qms. This is the spring strength of the woofer, or how hard it is to push the cone. Think of it as the speaker's spring rate. A speakers Qms is fixed, just like a metal suspension spring. The only woofer I have ever known with an adjustable Q was the Cerwin Vega Stroker (which is no longer in production because it was prone to failure due to being so hard to adjust). That said, how can one speaker with one Qms be able to do all three apps? A free air woofer in a small box is like Marauder springs on a Chevette. Conversely, a small box woofer in free air is like Chevette springs on a Marauder.

Related, I could find no Thiele-Small parameters (of which Qms is one) listed for any of their woofers. How can I design a box for my application and see if it fits with no T-S info?

Because of these reasons, I would steer away from these folks. T-S params are basic. If you can't give me that, you can't give me your speaker, either.

My 2 cents.
Rich

I've been back tot he site and found T-S params for subwoofers. Sight broken previously? Updated maybe? Magindat stupid maybe?

Still concerned over claim of IB, small sealed and ported. Otherwise, 19Ov.2 is impressive.

[KillJoy]

Otherwise, 19Ov.2 is impressive.

I kinda thought that for all their subs..... using price as a comparison. For the price of one, might not be bad for a project....like the reason I started this thread:D

KillJoy

[magindat]

For the price, they might make a good experimental woofer.

Check out these guys. I met the owner/builder at Daytona one year and have 2 of their machines. 1 DD9515 and 1 DD2010. The 9515 is pushing 6 years old and will still take 1000W real power all day at 155 db.

http://www.ddaudio.com

Hand built, made to order.

[jayro]

For what it's worth...
I've been a lurker for a while, just joined a couple days ago.

I have been VERY happy with the single sub I installed 2 summers ago. It's a Cerwin Vega "Vega 8D4", 8" dual coil, for ported enclosure. Excursion spec. is 1.2"!! (+/-0.60"), 4ohm, handles to 250Wrms. The punch at all volume levels is exactly what I was looking for, especially with a Def Leppard tune playing. I just couldn't stand the 'rumble' of all the enclosed subs at Best Buy, I like my bass to be a nice clean thunk.

For me, it even registered on the giggle scale. Depending on the mix (master recording) of course, I've had several passengers giggling at the thunk it puts out.

There were two spec'd options for box volume depending on port dia., I went with 1.37 cu. ft. which completely fills the trunk shelf beside the spare. Enclosure design kicked my butt, being tapered to accomodate the lip for the trunk. But I got it to fit, and yet not overhang beyond the shelf.

For those that are curious, I quick copied 2 construction pics of the cabinet to my website:
http://www.ohmancorp.com/images/MarauderWoofer-2-20040716.jpg
http://www.ohmancorp.com/images/MarauderWoofer-5-20040716.jpg
(I don't know if posting pics to this forum is cool or not).
The port aims directly up through the center of the stock sub hole, and is aimed a bit at the back window for clean reflection (less scatter). I drilled and screwed the cabinet flanges to the stamped plate behind the back seat, and speaker depth is set back enough so that excursion doesn't put the speaker cone out to where the suspension ring can get damaged. And yes, you will notice I tongue & grooved the wrong side for the top, so I had to block off my pre-cut tube hole and re-cut the tube hole.

Of course, I needed an aftermarket amp: I went with an Eclipse PA4212, rated only 130W per channel @ 4ohm, but the THD is only .004% at rated power!!! Being a dual coil speaker, I split the mono sub feed into both amp inputs. My instinct says this is really what produces the very tight bass (though no technical proof), as compared to a bridged amp.

Just thought I'd share my (learning) experience.

---Jay R O

[Vortech347]

Since we're on stereo stuff.

Where do you get a remote wire signal for an additional amp. I couldn't find a remote wire on the factory sub amp. All I found was 2 grounds, 2 main powers and the speaker signal.

Also coming out of the factory amp is the one with the line the ground or positive?

[magindat]

Since we're on stereo stuff.

Where do you get a remote wire signal for an additional amp. I couldn't find a remote wire on the factory sub amp. All I found was 2 grounds, 2 main powers and the speaker signal.

Also coming out of the factory amp is the one with the line the ground or positive?

The factory amp uses a 5V turn on. You can use a 5V relay or just run a wire to an ingintion on behind the radio and splice in. You caould add a switch to said ignition on.

[magindat]

For what it's worth...
I've been a lurker for a while, just joined a couple days ago.

I have been VERY happy with the single sub I installed 2 summers ago. It's a Cerwin Vega "Vega 8D4", 8" dual coil, for ported enclosure. Excursion spec. is 1.2"!! (+/-0.60"), 4ohm, handles to 250Wrms. The punch at all volume levels is exactly what I was looking for, especially with a Def Leppard tune playing. I just couldn't stand the 'rumble' of all the enclosed subs at Best Buy, I like my bass to be a nice clean thunk.

For me, it even registered on the giggle scale. Depending on the mix (master recording) of course, I've had several passengers giggling at the thunk it puts out.

There were two spec'd options for box volume depending on port dia., I went with 1.37 cu. ft. which completely fills the trunk shelf beside the spare. Enclosure design kicked my butt, being tapered to accomodate the lip for the trunk. But I got it to fit, and yet not overhang beyond the shelf.

For those that are curious, I quick copied 2 construction pics of the cabinet to my website:
http://www.ohmancorp.com/images/MarauderWoofer-2-20040716.jpg
http://www.ohmancorp.com/images/MarauderWoofer-5-20040716.jpg
(I don't know if posting pics to this forum is cool or not).
The port aims directly up through the center of the stock sub hole, and is aimed a bit at the back window for clean reflection (less scatter). I drilled and screwed the cabinet flanges to the stamped plate behind the back seat, and speaker depth is set back enough so that excursion doesn't put the speaker cone out to where the suspension ring can get damaged. And yes, you will notice I tongue & grooved the wrong side for the top, so I had to block off my pre-cut tube hole and re-cut the tube hole.

Of course, I needed an aftermarket amp: I went with an Eclipse PA4212, rated only 130W per channel @ 4ohm, but the THD is only .004% at rated power!!! Being a dual coil speaker, I split the mono sub feed into both amp inputs. My instinct says this is really what produces the very tight bass (though no technical proof), as compared to a bridged amp.

Just thought I'd share my (learning) experience.

---Jay R O

Very nice. Similarly, I used a band pass with the port firing thru the original sub hole. Good safety to screw through the metal behind the back seat.

[magindat]

Since we're on stereo stuff.

Where do you get a remote wire signal for an additional amp. I couldn't find a remote wire on the factory sub amp. All I found was 2 grounds, 2 main powers and the speaker signal.

Also coming out of the factory amp is the one with the line the ground or positive?

As stated before, that speaker signal is balanced and must either go to an amp that accepts balanced inputs or must be converted to unbalanced.

[GreekGod]

Hello, Jay R O,

Please post drawings or blueprint of your CV sub enclosure. As I understand it, the cabinet fits to the left of the spare tire, below the package tray and in place of the OEM plastic sub-speaker enclosure and amplifier. This is an ideal installation for those of us that wish to retain said spare and replace the underperforming OEM amp/speaker.

I'm sure many on this forum would like to go with a CV 8" sub and a decent amp. I have a JL 500 mono amp that should work real nice.

[bryanthomas]

Bump Bump Bump!!

[jayro]

GreekGod---

Yes, it just barely fits, I did my best to achieve the needed cu.ft. without hanging out from the spare tire shelf. The spare just /barely/ fits, the plastic threaded cap for holding the spare in place is at a slight angle due to being right of where it was designed to go. And the trunk lid hinge rubs the spare tire cover just slightly.

There is a nice cutout in the sheet metal panel behind the passenger seat that the speaker aims through, the metal covers maybe 10% of the speaker which seems to be of no concern.

I can post my cad drawings in PDF format, when I get a chance to.

[MM-INDY]

I like thumping bass but clarity a must I did a band box with two rockford 10" powered by infinity 1000 w amp stored to old stuff .. this kicks big time and i am sure there are others out there know what i mean. got all the stuff on sale at flee market or super discounted web sites so it was not as much as i thought thiking it ran me 250.00 300.00 plus a capacitor a must if you want the thing to boom w/o robbing the alternator of all power