Granatelli C.O.P. & Spark Plug Gap

[Rider90]

In the installation instructions for the Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Connection Set it says for supercharged applications to widen the spark plug gap .005" to .010" - would I see any difference in doing so? How about with the Trilogy setup, with a gap already at .032?

[MarauderMarc]

Yes, please, someone speak up. I dont want to screw anything up with my car as well. Good looking out, Rider.....

[Marauderjack]

Set the gap as specified by your SCer instructions.....I think the closer gap of .032"-.035" is to ensure good fire under boost!!??:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Rider90]

Set the gap as specified by your SCer instructions.....I think the closer gap of .032"-.035" is to ensure good fire under boost!!??:beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:
Any others? I've kept the stock gap, but would there be an advantage to going above .032" ala Trilogy here?

[FordNut]

A bigger gap makes more power but will also suffer from spark blowout at high boost/rpm. Only way to find out for sure is trial & error. Best to do it on a dyno but not absolutely necessary. Open the gap to .040 and try it, if it cuts out at high rpm close it down to .035 or .032. Or just stick with what works?

[Rider90]

A bigger gap makes more power but will also suffer from spark blowout at high boost/rpm. Only way to find out for sure is trial & error. Best to do it on a dyno but not absolutely necessary. Open the gap to .040 and try it, if it cuts out at high rpm close it down to .035 or .032. Or just stick with what works?
If I stuck with what works I'd still have 302 horsepower :lol:

[FordNut]

If I stuck with what works I'd still have 302 horsepower :lol:
I know that feeling!

[SergntMac]

If you're detecting a miss, you may have a couple of things contributing to your symptoms. Best to back track and start over?

First, the other thread on your engine tells me you have way too much dielectric grease involved. I didn't use any at all. Wash them down with brake cleaner and reinstall them dry.

Second, check the connections again. They should "snap" into place at the plug and at the coil pack. A little tweaking with needle nosed pliers will do the trick. Also recheck the coil pack to harness connection, these are easy to come undone once the coil cover is restored...Ask me how I know.

Third, I left my gap at .042, where they were set by Denso (IT22s). I did not change it. No problems here, got nothing but improvement from the Granatelli improved connectors. If you bumped your gap too far, you will get spark blow out.

Just some ideas, good luck.

[Rider90]

If you're detecting a miss, you may have a couple of things contributing to your symptoms. Best to back track and start over?

First, the other thread on your engine tells me you have way too much dielectric grease involved. I didn't use any at all. Wash them down with brake cleaner and reinstall them dry.

Second, check the connections again. They should "snap" into place at the plug and at the coil pack. A little tweaking with needle nosed pliers will do the trick. Also recheck the coil pack to harness connection, these are easy to come undone once the coil cover is restored...Ask me how I know.

Third, I left my gap at .042, where they were set by Denso (IT22s). I did not change it. No problems here, got nothing but improvement from the Granatelli improved connectors. If you bumped your gap too far, you will get spark blow out.

Just some ideas, good luck.
I kept the gap at .032 ala Trilogy instructions for now. I didn't think the dielectric grease would be a problem, but I have some time before I need to be at work, so I'll head outside now. Everything snaps, no problems in that department. Will update soon - thanks.

[fastblackmerc]

Just an FYI on the dielectric grease.

"The primary purposes of dielectric grease is to keep out moisture, and
prevent corrosion. Prevention of corrosion keeps the metal-to-metal contact point in a connector conducting electricity. If the grease conducted electricity, it would allow the tracking to ground of the power or signal being conducted. It's neutral and forms an excellent 02 block. Also lubricates but w/o any specific bulk. Wont' work for heavy loaded bearings, etc. Great for multiple plug blocks, relay contacts, slide contact switches, rubber lube, speedo cables when combined w/graphite, etc. In addition it is used for a heat conductor when some electronic components are mounted on surfaces to dissipate heat (like the ignition power stage on coils). It is non-conductive, but when you slide the connectors together there is metal-to-metal contact and the grease gets displaced but the area around connector is protected from moisture. If the grease was conductive it would be too easy to get "bleed" from one pin to another in a connector if the grease got hot and liquified and spread. DO NOT ever grease an oxygen sensor connector as the sensor is vented through the wiring on many sensors and the grease will contaminate sensor over time and it will cease to function. It helps keep the contact clean. Dielectric grease can be used to improve
conductivity in bullet and spade connectors while protecting the joints from
exposure to moisture, dirt, acid, what-have-you."

I think you should use the dielectric grease, just don't use too much of it. It also makes removing the plug boots easier.

Just my $.02

[Rider90]

I gooped the grease on yesterday and this morning I removed most of it. No grease is easy to remove, but there is a thin coat on each terminal which from my understanding of the installation instructions is exactly how it should be.

I have an ignition problem at idle and under throttle now. So bad that my digital oil pressure gauge moves from 10 to 24 to 34 to 0 and stays at 0 for a couple seconds. Not good.

I pulled each spark plug for inspection and they all look good, the 3 plugs that were exposed to moisture had the top terminals sanded down for good contact so I don't think plugs are the problem any more. Everything clicked into place but I am having difficulty getting this question answered:

What is the black thing sliding along the wire? The stock coil springs had this same black thing only FoMoCo made it 3 or 4 times Granatelli's size - why is that?

So this morning I pulled the plugs, cleaned all the dielectric goop from the coil packs and Grantelli Wire connectors, and now my problem is worse. F*c*kin GREAT...

[FordNut]

What is the black thing sliding along the wire? The stock coil springs had this same black thing only FoMoCo made it 3 or 4 times Granatelli's size - why is that?

It is toroid, a ferrite disc used to suppress noise.

[Rider90]

It is toroid, a ferrite disc used to suppress noise.
Will it's location on the wire cause a misfire?

[magindat]

No, it should not affect conductivity at all.

[SergntMac]

Okay now it sounds like you have a wire harness problem. Keep working backwards from the spark plugs?

[fastblackmerc]

You need a little dielectirc grease on the plugs. I use about a pinkie fingernail size drop just inside the boot. I'd also go back and check the gap on the plugs and make sure to use a tiny bit of antisieze on the threads and be sure to torque properly.

[Rider90]

You need a little dielectirc grease on the plugs. I use about a pinkie fingernail size drop just inside the boot. I'd also go back and check the gap on the plugs and make sure to use a tiny bit of antisieze on the threads and be sure to torque properly.
The plugs never had grease on them before and it ran fine. I've never used grease on the any plugs and there have not been problems. The gap was just fine, I looked at each plug, and the torque would not cause a misfire...

any ideas?

[Rider90]

Okay now it sounds like you have a wire harness problem. Keep working backwards from the spark plugs?
All of a sudden? man....one of those projects... :censor:

[Rider90]

Is there a way I can get my computer to detect it? disconnect the battery for a few hours and connect it back up & start it, making the computer relearn alittle? If I knew which cylinder....

[bigslim]

Jason, I have one question. Did this start after you put the new wires on or did you have this problem before?

[Rider90]

Jason, I have one question. Did this start after you put the new wires on or did you have this problem before?
After the new wires, so I am not so sure about these Grantelli wires...

[SergntMac]

Let's stop dicking around with this. I have a fresh set of connectors in a sealed bag and I'll be up your way in the next two days. If I can't hook up with you, I know where to find Bradley.

Replace all eight connectors, see what happens? Just don't grease them up on me, K?

If you have a bad connector from the factory, Grannitelli will replace them.

[Rider90]

Let's stop dicking around with this. I have a fresh set of connectors in a sealed bag and I'll be up your way in the next two days. If I can't hook up with you, I know where to find Bradley.

Replace all eight connectors, see what happens? Just don't grease them up on me, K?

If you have a bad connector from the factory, Grannitelli will replace them.
I hope to have the car fixed by then, a few days without the Marauder is a few days too long. I'm in Mount Prospect during the day but if you are going to be closer to the Lake Zurich area you can leave them in my mailbox. Send me an E-mail or give me a call when you are closer to coming up.

Thanks Mac, I really appreciate this.

[Marauderjack]

I'll bet it is a poor connection from the 12 volt plug on the coils.....Happened to me last plug change!!:argue: If you don't plug them in completely weird stuff happens.....anything from a "Phantom Miss" to one or more holes not firing at all!!:mad:

Check those connections first....:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Rider90]

I'll bet it is a poor connection from the 12 volt plug on the coils.....Happened to me last plug change!!:argue: If you don't plug them in completely weird stuff happens.....anything from a "Phantom Miss" to one or more holes not firing at all!!:mad:

Check those connections first....:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:
I'm tellin' ya Jack I was oh so very careful and methodical when taking everything apart and putting it back together. I was baffled that there was a miss.

[magindat]

Copied from your my sick marauder thread...

Jason,

Marc had the EXACT same sound and problem after we finished his SC. The ideler pulley was bouncing, howling sound, bad idle. All was caused by the IAC vacuum line being knocked off. It's easy to do and it's hard to see under the throttle body. I'm suspecting it got bumped when removing the coil cover.

I know it sounds simple, but it had 4 of us stumped for about 2 hours.

I guess the comp keeps trying to compensate and is confused by that line not being on. Caused the same noise and action on your videos.

We thought it was the idler, too, but as soon as we found it and plugged the line on, everything smoothed right out.

Hope it's that simple.

Rich

good luck bro

[Rider90]

I saw it Rich, it'll be the first thing I check when I get home. Thanks :beer:

[SergntMac]

Call my cell Jason (312.401.1396) I can do Mt. Prospect in the AM.

[Rider90]

Call my cell Jason (312.401.1395) I can do Mt. Prospect in the AM.
I'll call on my way home this evening.

[SergntMac]

I'll call on my way home this evening.Whoops...Typo alert Jason...The number is 312.401.1396...Sorry about that.

[Rider90]

Whoops...Typo alert Jason...The number is 312.401.1396...Sorry about that.
Yeah, I didn't think you were Sean...

Well.....

I brought home a stethoscope but could not locate the howl. It was not either of the idler bearings on the passenger side of the cam covers and it did not seem to be the one below the alternator (ala Trilogy) but I could not get the probe on IT, only the bracket so I may be wrong. So that's what is current with the howl.

Now onto the ignition issue.

I used the stethoscope to listen to the coil covers "tick, tick, tick, tick, etc..." all were uniform and sounded identical at idle. I did the same for the fuel injectors, all were the same. I then went around and pulled the coil packs out one by one. It had to have been arcing, I could hear the tick from the coil wire to the plug and it went away when I pulled out further - so I got a taste of a real misfire. I did this for all of them, and each gave me a misfire - I now realize my little stumble sure isn't a misfire. A misfire is much easier to find.

So the coil packs are working, spark plugs are getting power, and my condition is NOT a misfire. Something is not working efficiently?

I also noticed the EGR tube resting on a loom of wires. I was extremely worried and I seperated the two. Thankfully the heat did not get to any wires yet, its only electrical tape, PHEW... I then thought maybe one wire was arcing to the EGR tube so I got all excited and was left with no different result.

During my testing I unplugged the TPS to get the idle higher so it can hold the stumble, this was the first time I was excited to see the Check Engine light - but the codes were as follows:

P0122 Throttle/Petal Position Sensor/Switch A Circuit Low Input

P0600 Serial Communication Link Malfunction

P0240 Turbocharger Boost Sensor B Circuit Range/Performance

The codes were given ala ScanGauge and the meaning defined somewhere on the internet.

*sigh*

[Rider90]

Now I am suspecting coil pack problems. IIRC coil packs are $50 a piece...x8...

Will coil packs from a 2000 CVPI work? Keep in mind they are SOHC. I can get some free to test only...

[ctrlraven]

I put on my set of Granatelli C.O.P connectors last month on my NA engine, def notice a smoothier idle. On a NA engine that's still stock for now should I leave the spark plug gap stock or gap it a little more? Anything question, what is the OEM gap for our Marauders?

[Rider90]

I put on my set of Granatelli C.O.P connectors last month on my NA engine, def notice a smoothier idle. On a NA engine that's still stock for now should I leave the spark plug gap stock or gap it a little more? Anything question, what is the OEM gap for our Marauders?
Not sure of OEM gap, but I'd leave it, whatever it is. This may be a good question for Lidio.

FYI guys I'm picking up a DOHC coil pack on my way home as long as the dealer close by has one in stock. I hope to get this fixed tonight...

[Rider90]

Everything sure is going my way this week isn't it :rolleyes:

I purchased a new Motorcraft coil pack from Roto in Arlington Heights for $70.00. Then I listened to the jerk at the counter tell me TWICE the spark plugs I was trying to get "Were not standard" No ***** *******, neither was the 460 horsepower. He said he did not have the plugs. I took the coil home and swapped one coil at a time with the new one and under no circumstance did the stumble go away. OK, $70 down the drain, now lets find plugs. Roto did not have them, another Dealer did not have them, Autozone did not have them, and Murrays Auto Parts did not have them. What is with AWSF-22C....How can I get them??

On top of that who even knows if that is the problem. Maybe the problem really is the Granatelli kit, but I seem to be the only one, and I don't want to take the $70.00 x 7 more route at this point in time. Can I purchase springs seperately?? Maybe the problem is completely unrelated to coil packs and plugs and I'm wasting my time and money. If you guys have more ideas that could help trouble shoot this, I'm all ears.

[mad1stgen]

Try Autolite 103 from NAPA or probably any other place - they are the same heat range as the 22c.