Why is my Marauder stumbling?

[Rider90]

I did the Granatelli wire conversion and I've been stumbling since. I was told maybe a coil pack was damaged during the swap so I purchased a new one and went cylinder by cylinder swapping new with old and the problem did not change. I've pulled the plugs, all in great shape with 4,000 miles on them, and they look like fine. I had some water pooling happening but the three plugs that had a small amount of surface rust on the top of the plug have been sanded clean. I was told I had too much dielectric grease on the connectors/spark plugs so I pulled them all out and cleaned them up. If anything there is a small film but that should not be a problem since the install instructions told you to do that.

I was told I may have a wire harness issue, looked around and saw the EGR tube melting through electrical tape. I seperated the two, and the EGR tube did not make contact with any wires.

The engine's computer is not detecting a miss, no matter how long I keep it stumbling. What I have is a stumble on idle (and just above idle, as well as about 3,000 RPM) and a misfire while driving, that varies across the RPM band.

There are no visable vacuum lines leaking or disconnected under the Throttle body area, nor the passenger side near the EGR, as well as behind the S/C duct by the firewall. Everything is connected.

I purchased a stethoscope and listened to the fuel injectors and the coil packs, everything ticks uniformly and I cannot find one that doesn't or is not doing it right.

I would be willing to purchase spark plugs before I drive it into a lake.

Also for those that did the Grantelli swap would you be willing to send me your old coil springs so I can do some more testing? I can paypal for shipping.

[Rider90]

Also if anyone knows where I can even get spark plugs AWSF-22C I would be interested. I tried five places and no one has them.

[Breadfan]

Also if anyone knows where I can even get spark plugs AWSF-22C I would be interested. I tried five places and no one has them.
I got those at a local dealer. The part # was SLIGHTLY different but they cross referenced to that part num. My dealer parts guy told me it's an older plug and not used in current models and that the part number had changed.

I don't have the original boxes handy, I do have a pic from my install, *maybe* I can read the model number let me see.

EDIT: It may be AGSF-22C...I hear they're the same thing and they work fine in my car with #112. But you can see it on the box tops and on 2 of the plugs in the pic. I see AGSF-22C.

BTW I agree I think you should try swapping out the spark plugs next.

http://www.neuralimpulse.com/cars/trilogy/100_0201.JPG

(Top plug is the new one)
http://www.neuralimpulse.com/cars/trilogy/100_0204.JPG

[shakes_26]

you could go for the NGK TR6 plug, I beleve its listed as an option for the 03-04 Cobra

its the same heat range as the AWSF22, and I have been running them for a while now with no problems.

[Rider90]

you could go for the NGK TR6 plug, I beleve its listed as an option for the 03-04 Cobra

its the same heat range as the AWSF22, and I have been running them for a while now with no problems.
Where do I get NGK?

[fastblackmerc]

I agree, go with the NGK TR6's. I got mine at Advance Auto Parts. I think any of your local FLAPS should be able to get them.

[Rider90]

I agree, go with the NGK TR6's. I got mine at Advance Auto Parts. I think any of your local FLAPS should be able to get them.
What is a FLAP?

[O's Fan Rich]

Tallboy's tip sheet lists the plugs as AGSF-22C. That's what I ordered.

[Rider90]

I got the part # from the Trilogy manual, but I will try the new one. Are NGK's any better than Motorcraft?

[Breadfan]

I got the part # from the Trilogy manual, but I will try the new one. Are NGK's any better than Motorcraft?
Me too, but it would seem the part # changed. Perhaps the manual needs an update??

At anyrate, a good dealer parts dept. should be able to find them for you with the number referenced in the Trilogy manual.

[MM03MOK]

AGSF-22C's and AWSF-22C's are the same thing, just a change in part number, as told to us by our Ford dealership when we bought them a year ago.

[fastblackmerc]

What is a FLAP?
Friendly Local Auto Parts Store.

BTW I think the NGK TR6's are one heat ranger colder than the stock MM plug.

[Bradley G]

Jason,
Since I got those plugs for you, I bought a set for my car, same ones, runs great!
Unless they are, fouled/defective I doubt that is the source of your trouble.
I'm having a wierd driveability problem with the other Merc, I can relate to your frustration.
I have heard our Mafs are very sensitive, Maybe you are running out of room, on the voltage.
Or a obstical on the pick up?

[Breadfan]

Jason,
Since I got those plugs for you, I bought a set for my car, same ones, runs great!
Unless they are, fouled/defective I doubt that is the source of your trouble.
I'm having a wierd driveability problem with the other Merc, I can relate to your frustration.
I have heard our Mafs are very sensitive, Maybe you are running out of room, on the voltage.
Or a obstical on the pick up?

I agree that the plugs normally would be pretty reliable. My only concern was the water seepage under the coil covers, we saw the corrosion on the plug boot. Makes me wonder if the plug is damaged internally from the water??

[Rider90]

Jason,
Since I got those plugs for you, I bought a set for my car, same ones, runs great!
Unless they are, fouled/defective I doubt that is the source of your trouble.
I'm having a wierd driveability problem with the other Merc, I can relate to your frustration.
I have heard our Mafs are very sensitive, Maybe you are running out of room, on the voltage.
Or a obstical on the pick up?
Trying to find the source yesterday I unplugged everything..MAF, TPS, IAC, EGR, and nothing changed.

I think it is the Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Kit.

[Tallboy]

Trying to find the source yesterday I unplugged everything..MAF, TPS, IAC, EGR, and nothing changed.

I think it is the Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Kit.

A fresh set of plugs should narrow things down. Maybe the old "pull a coil pack from each cylinder, one-at-a-time, while the car is running" trick could isolate the offending cylinder?

[Zack]

I would bet that the porcelain is cracked on one of the plugs that is very hard to detect.

[blackf0rk]

I would bet that the porcelain is cracked on one of the plugs that is very hard to detect.

Like this?

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/images/cracked-spark-plug-porcelain.jpg

[Rider90]

Maybe the old "pull a coil pack from each cylinder, one-at-a-time, while the car is running" trick could isolate the offending cylinder?
Did that, see thread "Spark Plug Gap & Granatelli" or something like that...

Thanks though

[Rider90]

Like this?

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/images/cracked-spark-plug-porcelain.jpg
You know what....

I remember seeing that. On one of the plugs near the firewall, I was cleaning the goop off of it and I saw those lines. It didn't wipe off, but I didn't think anything of it.

I'm comin' home with new plugs today.

[metroplex]

http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/images/cracked-spark-plug-porcelain.jpg

I had that on one of the plugs in the 5.4L SOHC V8 (E-250), IIRC it was cyl #1 or #2. The van idled at 550 RPM in gear like a beaut... NO stumbling whatsoever. Weird eh?

Remember to use the special spark plug sockets when installing new plugs. Also, use a tiny amount of anti-sieze to prevent galling.

[SergntMac]

I think it is the Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Kit. I offered you a fresh set in a sealed package to aid in tracking down your problem. I was in Mt. Prospect yesterday too...All you had to do was call.

[Rider90]

I found a NAPA down the street that has Autolite plugs that are the same as the Motorcraft AGSF-22C. Autolite a good brand?

I called around and no one seems to have, nor have some heard of, the NGK TR6.

[Rider90]

I offered you a fresh set in a sealed package to aid in tracking down your problem. I was in Mt. Prospect yesterday too...All you had to do was call.
I know this, and I thank you for the offering. Feeling that it may have been the wires to begin with, why replace one turd with another turd? It may not be those though, let me test out new plugs.

If it is the plugs, that would be strange that the problem happened at the same time of the swap - before I pulled them out.

If it isn't the plugs, I'm going to scrounge around for OEM coil springs next...

[shakes_26]

TR6 is the actual marking on the plug, the model number.. I never remember, why I mentioned they can be used on the 03-04 Cobra , if you go to Advance/Auozone anyone who carries NGK's they can look it up that way, the plug will be marked TR6.

I think the box part number was TF22C or something of that nature...

[FordNut]

I called around and no one seems to have, nor have some heard of, the NGK TR6.
Ask for part number 4177.

[shakes_26]

Ask for part number 4177.
aha thats it...(identifies correct part number when shown:rolleyes:)

I knew Brian would know!

[Rider90]

Ask for part number 4177.
That did it! NGK 4177 - Napa has 8 of them. Will get them after work.

Thanks guys

[SergntMac]

Feeling that it may have been the wires to begin with, why replace one turd with another turd? Well okay now, I see where you're headed.

It unfair to characterize this mod in the manner you have, without some kind of proof. You have none at this time. Moreover, ruling out the connectors is a responsible step in tracking down the problem.

Many of us here have invested in these "turds", and without any problems or issues at all. In fact, most who have posted feedback, report improvements.

I've never seen anyone here turn down help that was a phone call away, must be a new day here.

[Rider90]

Well okay now, I see where you're headed.

It unfair to characterize this mod in the manner you have, without some kind of proof. You have none at this time. Moreover, ruling out the connectors is a responsible step in tracking down the problem.

Many of us here have invested in these "turds", and without any problems or issues at all. In fact, most who have posted feedback, report improvements.

I've never seen anyone here turn down help that was a phone call away, must be a new day here.
Take it down a notch Mac, and about that phone call, give me the right number in the first place. I said thank you for the offer, and I tried calling twice to arrange a location to meet at. We're not turning my thread into this, you can always send me an E-mail.

[Sully008]

I would bet that the porcelain is cracked on one of the plugs that is very hard to detect.

I would look at this as well. This happened on my XR a few years ago. It would idle great, but get into any kind of boost/rpms and it would stumble and miss like crazy. It was traced down to a plug with a hairline crack in it.

I still have the original springs out of the car, but I didn't really take much care in pulling them out. Let me know if you want 'em.

[fastblackmerc]

I found a NAPA down the street that has Autolite plugs that are the same as the Motorcraft AGSF-22C. Autolite a good brand?

I called around and no one seems to have, nor have some heard of, the NGK TR6.
I'd use the Autolites.

[fastblackmerc]

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Breadfan]

If I recall, aren't Motorcraft plugs Autolites anyway? So I think Autolites vs. Motorcraft would be the same thing.

Are the NGK's Orig. Equip in 03/04 Cobras or do they use Motorcraft plugs?

[Rider90]

I changed out all of the plugs with the NGK's I heard on this board, gapped at .032. The stumble on idle is gone, as well as some leaning into it, here is why....

http://midwestpanthers.net/spark.jpg

It was cracked all-right. It is another rainy day here and I don't have the traction to really lean into it - all I can say is I have a hesitation at 3,000 RPM. Once after about 3100 or 3200 it comes back alive.

I need some stock coil pack springs, non distorted.

Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Kit :down:

Thanks to all of you that have helped, I really appreciate it.

[BruteForce]

Granatelli Coil-On-Plug Kit :down:

Well that's one negative and 42 positives.

:run: :hide: :D

[Rider90]

Well that's one negative and 42 positives.

:run: :hide: :D
Agreed :D

Didn't work for me, maybe it will for you, all I know is these are ending their life outside near the tree we piss on while working on our cars.

[Tallboy]

Chalk up another one for Zack.

[Rider90]

Chalk up another one for Zack.
Yes, thank you Zack and thank you Jourdan for the picture

[SergntMac]

Didn't work for me, maybe it will for you, all I know is these are ending their life outside near the tree we piss on while working on our cars. If you are going to toss the Granatelli stuff, toss them to me? I'll pay you 50 bucks for your complete kit..Cash, and I'll come pick them up too, name the spot, date and time.

EDIT: Better yet, show me an invoice for what you paid and I'll reimburse you 100 percent.

Okay...You don't like them, but there is no sane need to eat the financial loss of exploring them.

I'll take your 8 connectors and 8 boots, for what you paid for them, just prove that you have bought them.

You lose nothing in dollars and your problem goes away with money back in your pocket. E-mail is SergntMac@aol.com, or, call me at 312.401.1396.

Y A W N ...You know this crap, but it's your move now...

[MM2004]

Jason,

I do not want to start a war, but are you positive the root cause is the connectors from Granatelli?

You found a cracked plug. Are you positive there aren't any more that may have been missed?

This is not an insult, but the install went very well for me and cannot help but to wonder if maybe you did not completely seat a connector or two?

I drove mine today for the first time after the install, and while I cannot say I am faster, I sure as hell feel a difference in idle and smoothness throughout the RPM band to ~6,200

Two of the OEM connectors practically fell out of the coil pack during the removal, and rest assured, all of the Granatelli went on tighter than OEM.

I feel very good about the upgrade for piece of mind if anything. Maybe I can now get into the 14's?? :D

Please do us a favor and relax a little on bad-mouthing the connectors, even if you produce hard evidence that you got a bad one?

Things happen...

Mike.

[Rider90]

Mike, I swapped all the plugs with new ones so there cannot be anything wrong in that department, right?

Everything fits tight, if you have some suggestions or want me to look somewhere I would be more than happy to. I do not WANT to dislike the kit, I paid $85.00 for it, I'd love to think it's great. But....now I have some issues that were not there before the kit.

[MM2004]

Mike, I swapped all the plugs with new ones so there cannot be anything wrong in that department, right?

Everything fits tight, if you have some suggestions or want me to look somewhere I would be more than happy to. I do not WANT to dislike the kit, I paid $85.00 for it, I'd love to think it's great. But....now I have some issues that were not there before the kit.

I assume you checked all new plugs for cracks?
Gapping/fueler gage?
Center electrode perfectly aligned to the ground electrode on all plugs?
No ecessive grease (dielectric) on contact points?
Connectors firmly in place on coil packs and spark plugs?
Wiring harnesses secure on all coil packs?
Wiring not pinched by coil covers?
Intake/MAF, etc. returned to their original position?
MAF free from oil/debris?

If all of this checked out 100%, I do not know what to say beyond this point, and wish you the very best on locating the issue.

Mike.

[SergntMac]

If all of this checked out 100%, I do not know what to say beyond this point, and wish you the very best on locating the issue. Mike. I do...

What about further down the line? What about fuel injectors? Electrical wires again. Different, but the same too. Bad connection? Faulty injector? There's a lot more to consider, when it's time to look elsewhere.

Meanwhile...I strongly suggest that Rider90 divest himself of the Granatelli connectors, and move on beyond them. Surely, he is not comfortable owning/using them. I do not expect any change in his symptoms, but we will know more when he moves away from the Granatelli COP connectors as a source of his problem.

Please...Y'all...Let's solve this?

I have contributted what I can on this topic, I can offer no more solutions.

[MM03MOK]

Jason, if the whole problem ended up being the spark plug, why are you condemning the COPs? Are they still in and working as they should? Did you try removing them completely and start the install from scratch?

Just take Mac up on his generous offer. There's your solution.

[Rider90]

I assume you checked all new plugs for cracks?
Gapping/fueler gage?
Center electrode perfectly aligned to the ground electrode on all plugs?
No ecessive grease (dielectric) on contact points?
Connectors firmly in place on coil packs and spark plugs?
Wiring harnesses secure on all coil packs?
Wiring not pinched by coil covers?
Intake/MAF, etc. returned to their original position?
MAF free from oil/debris?

If all of this checked out 100%, I do not know what to say beyond this point, and wish you the very best on locating the issue.

Mike.

I assume you checked all new plugs for cracks? --- Yes
Gapping/fueler gage? --- Yes @ .032" ala Trilogy
Center electrode perfectly aligned to the ground electrode on all plugs? --- Yes, I made sure they were perfect because I had nothing tor read while sitting on the can.
No ecessive grease (dielectric) on contact points? --- No grease anywhere
Connectors firmly in place on coil packs and spark plugs? --- Very much so, a click every time.
Wiring harnesses secure on all coil packs? --- Checked and double checked
Wiring not pinched by coil covers? --- The wiring is wrapped within a plastic loom that follows the curvature of the coil packs, and is in excellent shape
Intake/MAF, etc. returned to their original position? -- Yes, all plugged in
MAF free from oil/debris? -- MAF was cleaned not too long ago. I forget when, but I posted a thread.

Mac - sure, it could be a fuel injector - but they've got 4,000 miles on them and you're thinking one failed during the swap when I never touched one? Thin, but nonetheless, possible I suppose. I've looked all over the engine and firewall, following vacuum lines and wires and all are in great shape. In fact most of them have already been wrapped in that black plastic crap to give the engine compartment a "Clean" look.

I'm not completely done with testing these wires since I cannot go WOT and IIRC I had a miss at about 5,000 RPM. I'm going to give these things time too...

[Tallboy]

Another totally blind shot in the dark-any chance a piece of the OEM spring connector broke off inside one of the boots and is stuck there, "arcing" or something?

I got nothing here, sorry Rider.

[DEFYANT]

Suggestion...

Is it possible to swap out the modded coil packs with OEM coil packs? If the mod is at fault, you'd know real quick.

[usafsniper]

I'm not a mechanic, but...this may or may not be relevant...do you use a K&N filter?

I have know of "excessive" (very broad term, I know) use of the oil used to coat the filter to become a contaminant on the MAF and cause stumbling issues.

If not, when you cleaned it last, is there any possiblity that something didn't go back just the same?

Any chance your S/C system had developed a slight vacuum leak. You haven't had it that long right? Maybe enough time for something to have settled and come a little loose?

[Rider90]

Chuck - The Granatelli kit came with new Motorcraft boots that I have been using, the springs came out stretched but were whole. It's alright man, I appreciate the effort. If you think of something please let me know.

Charlie - I purchased a brand new OEM coil pack yesterday and went around each cylinder to try to narrow down the problem, but could not. The stumble was still there, somewhere. I should try it again now that I have the new plugs, but keep in mind it isn't a full out misfire. I've noticed in these 4-Cam engines everything is so smooth you really have to listen close to find the problem. Thank you

usafsniper - I do use the K&N FIPK w/ Conical Filter. Once in the past I took the upper intake off (When I was N/A) and noticed all the sludge inside. I was pizzed but I cleaned it. Since then I've changed the upper and lower intake as well as added the Supercharger so I doubt anything has built up inside the intake path. A dirty MAF is a possibility I suppose - but if you think of it, somehow the MAF must have gotten dirty during the time the car was off when I was switching to the Granatelli kit which does not make any sense to me. I cleaned it awhile ago and there were zero issues about how it dried and I don't think one would arise now so much further down the road. I checked for electrical issues all over the harnesses and I have no vaccum leaks. A new IAC is on the way and should be in my hands tomorrow. I did find an electrical harness pressed upon the EGR tube and it was slowly burning off the electrical tape. I seperated the two before there was an issue and I'm sure no wires were harmed as I was all over the harness near the firewall with a light at every angle. If I had a doubt in my mind the cowl would be off and I would be in there doing some wiring.


Thank you guys, I'm running out of ideas too. If anyone has any, please post or PM, I'd be glad to report my findings.

[Rider90]

Jason, if the whole problem ended up being the spark plug, why are you condemning the COPs? Are they still in and working as they should? Did you try removing them completely and start the install from scratch?

Just take Mac up on his generous offer. There's your solution.
Spark plug must have been some of the problem, I still have a hesitation near 3,000 RPM. I've removed and reinstalled each one about three times already. I don't know what else the hesitation could be, if you think of something let me know. Thank you

P.S. Sorry I did not see the message earlier :)

[Fourth Horseman]

Nevermind. Jumped in before I read the entire thread. Sorry.

Just a thought, though: have you tried disconnecting the battery to reset the computer since you replaced your plugs? I know, long shot, but worth a try maybe? Good luck, buddy. I hope you track down the trouble.

[Breadfan]

Spark plug must have been some of the problem, I still have a hesitation near 3,000 RPM. I've removed and reinstalled each one about three times already. I don't know what else the hesitation could be, if you think of something let me know. Thank you

P.S. Sorry I did not see the message earlier :)

How's your fuel filter?

Just another shot in the dark for ya.

:)

[Rider90]

Nevermind. Jumped in before I read the entire thread. Sorry.

Just a thought, though: have you tried disconnecting the battery to reset the computer since you replaced your plugs? I know, long shot, but worth a try maybe? Good luck, buddy. I hope you track down the trouble.
I could do that when I get home today. I've done it before, doesn't it make the computer relarn some parameters in the engine? Just a theory from my CVN days... Thanks

[Rider90]

How's your fuel filter?

Just another shot in the dark for ya.

:)
Replaced when I put the Trilogy on 4,000 miles ago. Doesn't really make sense that it went bad during the time the engine wasn't running for a couple hours :) Keep em' coming... thanks guys

[Dragcity]

I gotta tell ya, I had the EXACT same issue when I swapped my coil connectors. I asked here and got all the same good advice. I checked and adjusted and toiled over going back to stock. I decided to take it in to my dealer and sure as shilt, there was one bad coil, the one on the passenger's side nearest tnhe firewall, the one that's WET.

Tech changed that coil and the plug and no more problems.

[Rider90]

I gotta tell ya, I had the EXACT same issue when I swapped my coil connectors. I asked here and got all the same good advice. I checked and adjusted and toiled over going back to stock. I decided to take it in to my dealer and sure as shilt, there was one bad coil, the one on the passenger's side nearest tnhe firewall, the one that's WET.

Tech changed that coil and the plug and no more problems.
I suspected a coil so I purchased an extra. It would not be fair to single out these wires since I added new plugs so I will test the new coil on every cylinder looking for the stumble at 3,000 RPM. Will report later, thank you

[TheDonk]

Rider90,
If you still want to go back to the old connectors I have
7 of 8 that came out w/o problems, I'll send 'em to you.

[Rider90]

Rider90,
If you still want to go back to the old connectors I have
7 of 8 that came out w/o problems, I'll send 'em to you.
Please, I'm PMing my address now. Thank you!

[SergntMac]

Who did you buy your Granatelli stuff from?

[Rider90]

Who did you buy your Granatelli stuff from?
Greg, with the group buy.

[SergntMac]

Greg, with the group buy.Thanks.

The reason I asked is because stuff like this tends to move around in production "lots". As I recall it, Greg offered the GB because he had access to some "overstock". My thinking is, if you got a defective connector, maybe someone else from that same GB did too? But, I suppose we'll have to wait for everyone to install them and report back before we'll know that.

[Breadfan]

Could you pull the boot and measure resistance across each one?? If one had resistance it might indicate a defective or damaged coil connector...

[Rider90]

Could you pull the boot and measure resistance across each one?? If one had resistance it might indicate a defective or damaged coil connector...
How would I go about measuring resistance?

[SergntMac]

Just "stumbled" across another tidbit of 411 in my "big red book".

The coil packs get their instruction to fire from the EEC, which gets told a lot of stuff that helps it make the decision to fire the coil pack. One key piece of 411 it needs, is the crank's position.

This is another electronic sensor, it's inside the engine's front cover, down by the oil pump on the crank, but accessible without breaking open the front timing cover. It's on the same harness with the coil packs, and it feeds the crank position data to the EEC which in turn gives the order to fire.

Aside from the "stumble" getting explored here, there is another issue pending with a bearing noise from the front of the engine. Sorry, I'm not more familiar with this issue, but it's posted somewhere here.

Can't help wondering if there is a relationship between the problems?

[magindat]

How would I go about measuring resistance?

Use your voltmeter on the 'ohms' or diode check setting. It's usually the setting that 'beeps' upon dead short. One lead to each end. Should show a dead short if zero ohms resistance.

[magindat]

Just "stumbled" across another tidbit of 411 in my "big red book".

Aside from the "stumble" getting explored here, there is another issue pending with a bearing noise from the front of the engine. Sorry, I'm not more familiar with this issue, but it's posted somewhere here.

Can't help wondering if there is a relationship between the problems?

Again, recollection of Marc's SC install...

Perhaps Jason's stumble is due to another reason, but the pulley was jumping around and making a hell of a racket 'till we fixed the vac leak (again, bad info to the EEC somewhere). Then, the pulley quit making noise. I woulnd't worry 'bout the pulley 'till the 'stumble' is fixed. I think the pulley's just pissed cuz what's actually happening is the engine is going up and down in revs very quickly and the belt is going lose-tight and back to loose very quickly.

Just my observations on a problem with similar symptoms.

FWIW

[SergntMac]

When brain storming, every little "bit" of 411 helps. Thanks.

[MM2004]

With all of the removing and re-installing of the connectors, would it be possible that the ends of the connectors have become 'stretched' to the point maybe one or more of them are not making a good connection?

These connectors were very tight while installing mine.

Mike.

[Rider90]

With all of the removing and re-installing of the connectors, would it be possible that the ends of the connectors have become 'stretched' to the point maybe one or more of them are not making a good connection?

These connectors were very tight while installing mine.

Mike.
They are crimped on to a solid wire, and that wiring is very well spooled around itself to begin with. I don't think I could pull them apart without tools. Just my thought...

[SergntMac]

With all of the removing and re-installing of the connectors, would it be possible that the ends of the connectors have become 'stretched' to the point maybe one or more of them are not making a good connection?

These connectors were very tight while installing mine. Mike. This is a good point to consider, if the problem is with the Granatelli connectors.

The Granatelli conectors terminate with round female cups that snap into place over the spark plug. They are identical at each end, and it doesn't matter which end is up. However, the connection inside the coil pack is a male spade terminal (see Mike's pics in his install thread), slightly wider than the round connector. At first mating, the connector deforms to an oval shape to fit the male spade snugly. It needs to be reshaped (gently, with needle nose pliers) if separated from the coil pack, to restore a snug fit on the reinstall.

The vibration of the engine at 3000 RPM (load or no load), may be enough to rattle a loose connection, and cause a brief stumble. Remote, but something to consider in the hunt.

[Marauderjack]

I don't think it is a loose connection with the Granatelli connectors....If they were just loose contact fit they are better than OEM's and the coil covers push them down TIGHT!!:beer:

I still think it is a "Phantom Miss" from poor low voltage connection (s) at one or more coil (s).....Happened to me several times when changing plugs!!:argue:

When you install the 12V plug on the coil be sure to pull upwards on the locking tab and make sure it is locked in.....they tend not to "click" into place since I guess thousands of heat/cool cycles takes the rebound out of them??:confused:

What about putting it on a dealers OBD II reader and see what it says...or have you already done that??:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[David Morton]

Tune-up is a can of worms and often a guy works on his engine and gets a problem like this. I saw it back when guys were buying ACCEL dual-point distributors and 40,000 volt coils.

"Got a stumble at 3000", "All I did was replace the distributor", "This is a bad part", etcetera, etcetera.

You get the thing in your stall and find out the guy left a vacuum hose off. :o

I've been reading this whole thread and all the time I've been saying "Sounds like a vacuum leak to me." I know you found a bad plug but there's a difference between a miss and a stumble. The stumble complaint most often is from all the cylinders losing fuel, sometimes from a vacuum leak.

Are you sure you didn't knock a vacuum hose or line off inadvertently? Some lines are inside the wiring harnesses and can crack when we stress, bend or twist the harness.

The symptom is screaming VACUUM LEAK! to me.
If you brought it to me, I would have checked for ignition voltage leaks (since you've just worked on the ignition system), verified fuel delivery (checked pressure and listened to the injectors) and then gone straight to the vacuum system.

A friend of mine has a sign in his stall that says, "LABOR RATES - $50/hr, $100/hr if you worked on it.

This one's free. :D

[MM2004]

Jason,

Any progress?

Mike.

[AzMarauder]

Tallboy's tip sheet lists the plugs as AGSF-22C. That's what I ordered.

AWSF-22C

and

AGSF-22C


What I was told when I ran into this .... and if you look at the picture on the first page of this thread.

The AWSF is a 1/2 thread plug.

The AGSF is a full thread plug.

Heads that are made for a 1/2 thread plug CAN run a full thread plug.
Heads that are made for a full thread plug CANNOT run 1/2 thread plug.

So... they did away with the 1/2 thread plugs ......

[Rider90]

Waiting for the OEM coil springs to come in. Will update once installed.

[Fourth Horseman]

Rider, I only had 5 of my originals that were not screwed up from removal when I put my Granatellis in, but you should have them tomorrow (Monday). Hopefully you'll get enough from other folks to make a complete set of 8. Good luck!

[Rider90]

Rider, I only had 5 of my originals that were not screwed up from removal when I put my Granatellis in, but you should have them tomorrow (Monday). Hopefully you'll get enough from other folks to make a complete set of 8. Good luck!
I should have 8 or a couple extras, thank you :coolman:

[Fourth Horseman]

Any update Rider? Did the stock connectors resolve the issues you were seeing?

[NRAUD]

Just in case...check this part number at napaonline.com: 727420

If you browse the online catalog for spark plugs for a Marauder, you'll find the COP boots as the last two items in the list. One with spring, and one without. Retail is $7.69 with, and $3.99 without.

http://napaonline.com

[Rider90]

Thanks, NRAUD. I did not know they were sold seperately.

Scott, and everyone for that matter, my car developed yet another issue that Scott (Lone Star) from Trilogy has been on since day one. As of yesterday the issue got much worse and another alternator bracket has been overnighted for me. I'll know about the OEM coils within a couple of days. The bracket should be here tomorrow.

[DEFYANT]

Hang in there man!! :(

[MENINBLK]

Have you changed the PCV Valve lately ???

[Rider90]

Hang in there man!! :(
The [possibly] bad alternator bracket and [possibly] my alternator are the biggest problems. They like make noise whenever they want in traffic, they always show themselves on coldstarts, but yesterday the problem got so severe I thought I was going to throw my accessory belt. It comes and goes, which pisses me off.....I can't find what isn't there..The stumble isn't as apparent, for whatever reason, but it does show it's ugly face on cold starts as my car stumbles. The stumble at 3,000 RPM is gone somehow and I didn't do a thing. I will still go back to OEM coil springs in hopes to troubleshoot whatever is going wrong on coldstart.

I am releasing a video of my new mufflers in my past muffler thread now, its about three minutes long and you can hear my alternator/bracket issue at 1:35 min/sec into the video. Thankfully it didn't feel like being obnoxious so I was able to keep that clip in the video. The stumble at idle was gone only because it wasn't a cold-start, I was already at 170*F atleast.

I don't want to dive into the bracket issue too much without the words from Jerry or Scott. If they post, I will follow, and can supply many videos recording the sounds I have been experiencing and let people guess. Until then, it doesn't seem right to blame their bracket until I KNOW it is their bracket. Like I said, I suspect the alternator too. A new bracket should be in my hands tomorrow afternoon and I'll post about it if it made a difference.

I could not possibly be any happier with the customer service regarding the Trilogy Supercharger. But I'm diving into another issue on the wrong thread. Long story short my car has been a handful for over 4,000 miles, cause? still not 100% sure. Hopefully the bracket will shed some light.

[Rider90]

OEM coil springs are back in, car idled and revved fine, but I have yet to drive it.

The alternator bracket came in but one seemingly-special bolt did not hold up so I need to wait for a new one. The Marauder sits :alone:

[Rider90]

Drove the car today with the OEM coil springs and no problems to report. I will drive it to work and see if something happens.

Since I keep bringing up the Trilogy alternator bracket, I installed it this morning (Bolt from Ace Hardware) and there wasn't a squeek, squeal, or howl to report. I need to drive it more to make sure...

So far it's like a new car!

[Fourth Horseman]

Excellent news. I don't want to tempt the automotive gods with premature congratulations, but it sounds like you may have solved both problems. Good news indeed! :beer:

[Rider90]

Excellent news. I don't want to tempt the automotive gods with premature congratulations, but it sounds like you may have solved both problems. Good news indeed! :beer:
I still have a howl :(



...

*****.

What a PITA this has been, and will be....:alone:

[Tallboy]

I still have a howl :(



...

*****.

What a PITA this has been, and will be....:alone:

I realize this may not be the problem, but did you do the K&N mod yet?

[Rider90]

I realize this may not be the problem, but did you do the K&N mod yet?
Not yet Chuck. I realize it may not be the problem as well, but it is still a good idea. I wrote a note and will get to it this coming week....Not on Monday cuz I'll be detailing BigJoeP's Kenny Brown S :cool: I'll post pics, it's gonna look sweet.

[Tallboy]

Not yet Chuck. I realize it may not be the problem as well, but it is still a good idea. I wrote a note and will get to it this coming week....Not on Monday cuz I'll be detailing BigJoeP's Kenny Brown S :cool: I'll post pics, it's gonna look sweet.

It doesn't take long. The K&N on a Trilogy without this mod will produce a "howling" sound. I've gotten more pm's and phone calls about this than any other issue.

Fingers crossed, bro.

[Fourth Horseman]

It doesn't take long. The K&N on a Trilogy without this mod will produce a "howling" sound. I've gotten more pm's and phone calls about this than any other issue.

Fingers crossed, bro.

When modding the K&N tube for the Trilogy, where does the new hose connect to? I looked at a page link that posted about this mod but couldn't tell where it hooked up.

[Tallboy]

When modding the K&N tube for the Trilogy, where does the new hose connect to? I looked at a page link that posted about this mod but couldn't tell where it hooked up.

There are two vacuum lines under the throttle body. Connect the extra hose you put on the K&N to the vacuum fitting nearest the blower.

[Fourth Horseman]

There are two vacuum lines under the throttle body. Connect the extra hose you put on the K&N to the vacuum fitting nearest the blower.

Was that a vacuum fitting that was previous just capped and not used? I ask because I'm hoping to be able to afford a Trilogy kit next year, and I've got a K&N on my car now that I'd like to use with it.

[Tallboy]

Was that a vacuum fitting that was previous just capped and not used? I ask because I'm hoping to be able to afford a Trilogy kit next year, and I've got a K&N on my car now that I'd like to use with it.

The extra fitting is on the new Trilogy air intake. You'll be able to use the K&N with no problem. You'll need the grommet, elbow, 16" of hose, and a 1.5 inch hole saw. I can easily talk you through it over the phone. If you ever have a question or concern about the kit or the install, just drop me a line.

Anytime.

I never sleep. :D

[shakes_26]

Isn't that a 1" hole saw, not that your ever wrong :rolleyes:


The extra fitting is on the new Trilogy air intake. You'll be able to use the K&N with no problem. You'll need the grommet, elbow, 16" of hose, and a 1.5 inch hole saw. I can easily talk you through it over the phone. If you ever have a question or concern about the kit or the install, just drop me a line.

Anytime.

I never sleep. :D

[Fourth Horseman]

The extra fitting is on the new Trilogy air intake. You'll be able to use the K&N with no problem. You'll need the grommet, elbow, 16" of hose, and a 1.5 inch hole saw. I can easily talk you through it over the phone. If you ever have a question or concern about the kit or the install, just drop me a line.

Anytime.

I never sleep. :D

Thank you! :beer:

[Tallboy]

Isn't that a 1" hole saw, not that your ever wrong :rolleyes:

Hhhhmmmm. You may be right-I'll have to check. Could be a 1" hole saw, indeed.

BTW it's "you're" not "your"...:D :D

[Tallboy]

Hhhhmmmm. You may be right-I'll have to check. Could be a 1" hole saw, indeed.

BTW it's "you're" not "your"...:D :D

Yep. Ignore my previous post. It's a 1" cole slaw.

Thanks so much for correcting me. I truly appreciate it. :D :D

[David Morton]

That's cold slaw, cause it's served cold.

Barbarians. :rolleyes:

[the_pack_rat]

That's cold slaw, cause it's served cold.

Barbarians. :rolleyes:
Aye.

I was out somewhere a few weeks ago & I got some that was quite warm.

:puke:

Felt like going over to the kitchen door & tossin' it at whoever was in charge back there.

:P

Cole slaw - cold.

Sauerkraut - hot.

Shouldn't really be eating it anyway tho.

[Rider90]

Drove the car today with the OEM coil springs and no problems to report. I will drive it to work and see if something happens.

Since I keep bringing up the Trilogy alternator bracket, I installed it this morning (Bolt from Ace Hardware) and there wasn't a squeek, squeal, or howl to report. I need to drive it more to make sure...

So far it's like a new car!
Just adding that the car performs fine, any and all stumbles are gone, these Granatelli things are junk in my book.

[jgc61sr2002]

Just adding that the car performs fine, any and all stumbles are gone, these Granatelli things are junk in my book.



Glad to hear all is well.:D

[RF Overlord]

these Granatelli things are junk in my book.Jason, sorry to hear you had the one and only bad experience of the dozens of kits that have been installed so far...

[Rider90]

Jason, sorry to hear you had the one and only bad experience of the dozens of kits that have been installed so far...
Me too, me too....

[BruteForce]

Just adding that the car performs fine, any and all stumbles are gone, these Granatelli things are junk in my book.

Unless you try them again now that *all* your other issues are ironed out, its unfair to claim they caused the problem. It could have been any combination of factors. Just because they were a new factor doesn't mean they were the cause.

Confusing Cause and Effect is a fallacy that has the following general form:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.

This fallacy requires that there is not, in fact, a common cause that actually causes both A and B.

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.

[Rider90]

New spark plugs were in when I had the Grantelli kit, still a stumble and a hesitation.

Changed to the OEM coil pack springs and the stumble and hesitation are both gone. I did nothing else to the car in-between so I fail to see where I messed up in my observation?

[BruteForce]

If I recall correctly, there was an alternator issue (something had to come from TMS?) and at least one broken plug. Was the battery disconnected once the new plugs were put in to reset the computer?

It may well be that the Granatelli connectors exposed problems caused by plug that the OEM covered up? I'm just having a hard time being convinced that the connectors caused the stumble. Too many others with no problems. Maybe you have one that is defective? Return 'em for a fresh set.

Just drawing from PC troubleshooting experience that has shown me that new parts sometimes expose existing problems. First thought is to blame the new part. Its only through testing (put in different slot, install in a different PC, etc) that it can reliably be proven that the part is the cause.

[Rider90]

If I recall correctly, there was an alternator issue (something had to come from TMS?) and at least one broken plug. Was the battery disconnected once the new plugs were put in to reset the computer?

It may well be that the Granatelli connectors exposed problems caused by plug that the OEM covered up? I'm just having a hard time being convinced that the connectors caused the stumble. Too many others with no problems. Maybe you have one that is defective? Return 'em for a fresh set.

Just drawing from PC troubleshooting experience that has shown me that new parts sometimes expose existing problems. First thought is to blame the new part. Its only through testing (put in different slot, install in a different PC, etc) that it can reliably be proven that the part is the cause.
There was an alternator issue but that was taken care of before the stumble, and the alternator issue was only a squeek. The battery was disconnected after the new plugs because I had to fix the ground wire going to my 1000w JL Audio amplifier as it had become disconnected from the box moving around.

You're thinking that the Granatelli Connector Kit is so amazing, it exposed underlying problems I have never seen before? Are you a salesman?

[Marauderjack]

I too find it hard to believe the Ford "Springy Thingies" are better but hey.....If they work leave 'em be!!:beer:

Mine was so bad with the springs that I considered selling the car.....The Granatelli's fixed the nerve wracking "Phantom Missfire" at cruise and that was about 30K miles ago!!:bows:

I guess they (Granatelli) could test your set just to confirm you have a bad one or more?? Call them and see if they will check them for ya?? I would even pay the shipping for ya if they won't....just to get answers since your experience is so unique!!:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[BruteForce]

You're thinking that the Granatelli Connector Kit is so amazing, it exposed underlying problems I have never seen before? Are you a salesman?

Try not to get your panties in a knot, mmkay? Just making conversation. :rolleyes:

No need to make a personal attack.

[Rider90]

Try not to get your panties in a knot, mmkay? Just making conversation. :rolleyes:

No need to make a personal attack.
Just looking for clarification. Thanks for your help.

[RF Overlord]

Hey Jason...can you take an ohmmeter to them and see if they all read the same?

[Fourth Horseman]

Just adding that the car performs fine, any and all stumbles are gone, these Granatelli things are junk in my book.

While I've had good luck with mine, I've heard people on other forums, such as a couple of Mustang boards I frequent, complain about quality problems with Granatelli stuff. Glad you sorted that problem out.

[SergntMac]

Just looking for clarification. Thanks for your help.I need some clarification too. On 5/24, you posted...

The stumble at 3,000 RPM is gone somehow and I didn't do a thing. I will still go back to OEM coil springs in hopes to troubleshoot whatever is going wrong on coldstart.
Today, you post...

Just adding that the car performs fine, any and all stumbles are gone, these Granatelli things are junk in my book. I'm not dissing you, Jason, but with all the other flotsam about altenators, howling, brackets, stereo ground wires, and cole slaw, it's no wonder why some folks have been confused.

You are welcome to declare the GMS connectors junk, but like BruteForce and MarauderJack have observed, your testing methods and pathology for "cause and effect" hasn't been easy to follow, or, ideal for us who want to offer suggestions. As it has been pointed out, you are the lone voice against the GMS connectors with a good track record of success among us. I wonder if you have given them a fair shake?

Once again, I'd like to buy your GMS coil connectors, and test them myself. I'll test them on two completely different Marauders, maybe a third if Zack wants to help out. If they are defective in some way, many of us would like to be forwarned. If not, we should clear the air, and declare it enigmatic to your particular application...***** happens, no problem.

What do you say? Want to sell them? Loan them to me for another field test? SergntMac@aol.com, I'll send you my mailing address.

[mongo]

Rider 90

I have the same problem, at 2800-3000 astumble occurs! I also am a Trilogy owner ,and have many of the same mods as you. Problem started after Granatellies were installed. What are the Ford part# for boot,and wire?

Thanks
Mongo

[Rider90]

I need some clarification too. On 5/24, you posted...

Today, you post...
I'm not dissing you, Jason, but with all the other flotsam about altenators, howling, brackets, stereo ground wires, and cole slaw, it's no wonder why some folks have been confused.

You are welcome to declare the GMS connectors junk, but like BruteForce and MarauderJack have observed, your testing methods and pathology for "cause and effect" hasn't been easy to follow, or, ideal for us who want to offer suggestions. As it has been pointed out, you are the lone voice against the GMS connectors with a good track record of success among us. I wonder if you have given them a fair shake?

Once again, I'd like to buy your GMS coil connectors, and test them myself. I'll test them on two completely different Marauders, maybe a third if Zack wants to help out. If they are defective in some way, many of us would like to be forwarned. If not, we should clear the air, and declare it enigmatic to your particular application...***** happens, no problem.

What do you say? Want to sell them? Loan them to me for another field test? SergntMac@aol.com, I'll send you my mailing address.
I understand it has been confusing for everyone. So many things going on I need to back track and figure out where to start. I firmly believe these Granatelli springs worked against me and there is a reason, but I need time to regroup now that I am being asked to sort it all out for you guys. If I'm up to the task I'll do it tonight, if not, I'll get around to it. It isn't a high priority but I can understand those that want clarification.

In respose to what you posted Mac, the stumble myseriously disappeared over time. I don't get it either, but there definately was a stumble on cold start that never left until I did the OEM springs. I started it up one morning, had the cold start stumble, put the OEM springs in that afternoon, and the next day that cold start stumble was gone.

[Rider90]

Rider 90

I have the same problem, at 2800-3000 astumble occurs! I also am a Trilogy owner ,and have many of the same mods as you. Problem started after Granatellies were installed. What are the Ford part# for boot,and wire?

Thanks
Mongo
Mongo I have some springs left over from everyone sending me some. I may have 8, if not, I have atleast 4. PM me your address...For the rest I say bump my thread requesting springs and see what you can get out of it.

[Marauderjack]

mongo,

I screwed about three of the springs up removing them and thought I threw them all away but I just found them and 5 are OK!! I'll send them all to you if you PM me your address.;)

Do you want the OEM boots to??

Marauderjack:D

[jdenning002]

Did This Ever Get Sorted Out???

I'm Having Some Issues And I Think It May Be The Gms Coils...

(only The Set I Have, Not The Product In General).

Thanks!!

[cyclopsram]

Back to OEM... Old Andy Granatelli was the STP guy with the tan trench coat snake oil salesman in the old days..

[jdenning002]

Were the Granatelli's confirmed bad??