Red Line Water Wetter???

[Marauderjack]

I put a bottle in and expected to see some results.....BUT with my 182* thermostat the temp runs at about 192* around town or on the highway in 80* air...NO CHANGE that I can see from the ScanGauge??:argue:

Today it was 98*to 101* outside in town and the coolant temps ran from 198+ to 204* and I wasn't running it hard....when I got to the open road it went back to 197*??:confused:

I really thought it would run cooler but the dang thing is hotter than I remember though the in dash gauge is right where it stays (about 19 MPH)??

BTW....IAT was about 120* just cruising and got to 135* with a little 5# run...Not too wild about running it hard in this kind of heat!!:shake:

Anyone else run the Water Wetter??

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Rider90]

I was told to throw some in the resevoir for the S/C. Keeping an eye on this thread...

[RF Overlord]

I was told to throw some in the resevoir for the S/CBy whom, may I ask? Someone from Trilogy?

[blackf0rk]

Maybe he heard it from me(?) I ran some Purple Ice (Same thing as Water Wetter) in my resivoir when I first installed it.

[Cobra25]

Early last year I put a bottle of it in my rad. A little while later I started seeing little drops of oil in my cooling system. It seams to me that the water wetter seeped through one of my gaskets ( where the thermostat housing is) and made it leak. The dealer had to flush the cooling system out 3 times and replace the gasket and new Antifreeze. I would never use it again. If you do I wish you good luck.

[Todd TCE]

What's wrong with these temps?? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

If you want a great mix to run cooler:
100% distilled water and can of "40 Below Water Treatment". Best stuff I've seen yet.

[Marauderjack]

Hey Todd.....

What's the point in a 182* thermostat if it cannot hold it there?? If I had a the 188* what would it be....The same?? I don't get it!!??:shake:

I think the engine is safe to 215* or so but I really thought it would run closer to 182*......WRONG!!:cool: I just may have too many gauges...TOO MUCH INFO!!!:eek:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[Todd TCE]

I'm no t-stat engineer by any means but I did go through some deep problems with my SHO race motor regarding water temps.

The 180* is pretty comon in Ford stuff as they change fueling scales at this point. The motor runs fat under that and goes to 'open loop' I believe it's called when the temp of the water goes above this. The goal of the t stat is to mangae water temps in a stable condition. Not to promise it will only reach 180. In cold weather it's going to shut down and keep the water in the block longer (not to warm the heater) but to keep the water temps right for the fueling.

As the temp goes up to 200 or 210 or above it simply flows water. Then if it's running hard it is also used as a gate to slow the water rate down. Often we run a flat plate in a motor and not a t-stat simply to restrict high flow rate which is less effective. Same as changing to a larger pump pully as I have done on the SHO. Opening it up full time will negate the ability to interface with the computer so we continue to use the t-stat.

In short it's a metering device not a temperature control. That's the job of the radiator. If you want lower temps add more cooling.

As for the limit at 215* man it damn well better be well above that! I'm thinking more in the 230-240 range before you have serious problems. Not that you'd see this on the street but it could happen in hard use.

I run over 2.5g of water (and the 40 below) with twin rads on the 3.2L motor but...with altitude and the motor working hard at low to mid speed the air flow is poor. We need to run a 22-24psi cap just to contain the water. Then race runs can see upward of 230+ very commonly. Fans are out at they only inhibit air flow and do zip at high speed.

I'd take your 200-215 temps all day long!

[Brutus]

I have used it. I like its anti-corosion properties if nothing else.

[Marauderjack]

200*-215*......with the blower and no cooling mod?? What about the dreaded #7 & #8 cylinder heat problems.....though I have never seen this to be a fact except for the chatter from the folks that sell the mods??:cool:

Somehow I thought 200+ degrees with 9-10 pounds of boost could mean trouble....but I guess the program takes all of that into account??:confused:

I have never heard any detonation...ever!!:bows: :beer:

Marauderjack:burnout:

[CRZYBIKER]

Water Wetter increases heat transfer by by making the water in the coolant have less surface tension (Allows it to get in smaller pores in the metal castings) therefore carrying more heat away from the engine components. Radiators are made from a NON porous rolled type metal, so the heat transfer "benefit" is defeated. You will have the same or higher temperatures at the sending unit because the Water Wetter is cooling the engine parts faster than the radiator can take the heat out. So in a nutshell, the engine (cylinder head, cylinder sleeves, etc) are running cooler than they were before even though the actual coolant temp is slightly higher or the same.

Red Line says it will make it run cooler.......and it does, remember, they have to make it sound appealing by omitting the technical stuff that could cause confusion; AND THEY DO THIS TO SELL IT.


Another interesting bit,
Nascar runs Water Wetter with only water, no coolant, since the spills aren't as messy when they crash. If it keeps a 9,000 RPM racing engine cool, it is good enough for our 4.6's.


Last note:
Please refer to any highly educated 'proffessional'; cylinder wear and engine failure rates increase dramatically if a coolant temperature of 180 degrees or less is maintained. The manufactures set up their piston to cylinder wall tolerances to be "ideal" at a temperature of 180-210 degrees.

[Todd TCE]

Please don't ask me to get deeper into elements of this particular motor that I admit I cannot answer. I'm simply saying that any V8 running 200-215 shuold certainly not be consdered a problem.

Boosting the motor obviously means more heat but the computer program should be taking this into account as well and adding fuel based on that water temp. If you can keep it down perhaps to 200 you might pick up a couple of hp but the only way I see you'd to that is wtih more cooling capacity. Meaning pull the AC condensor, shroud the rad very well, and do everything you can to make the air work for you. If that fails do up a serpentine, 3 or 4 core custom radiator and try that.

Race cars lived for years with the 200/200 rule and it worked well. Today we push the motors harder with more rpm and it's more like 220/240 rule I think. That's what makes sythetic oils nice and then we spend all our money with the raditor buiders!

[Rider90]

Maybe he heard it from me(?) I ran some Purple Ice (Same thing as Water Wetter) in my resivoir when I first installed it.
Yeah, it was Jourdan. Blame Jourdan...

[HwyCruiser]

Once the coolant is past 180 degrees the stat is as open as it's going to get to put full coolant flow to the radiator. The stat only plays when the engine is cool or on cooler days when the radiator itself can pull more heat out of the coolant than the stat's element is designed for, then stat will start to restrict coolant flow to the radiator and bypass it back to the engine to keep it warm.

Once the car is up to temperature the radiator fan will take over at around 210 degrees coolant temp IIRC. Usually when the car is moving just the radiator does the trick to keep the coolant temp under 210 degrees, it's when your car is sitting still the fans kick in. There's a bunch of engineering mumbo-jumbo about sizing heat exhangers and such, but unless your start fiddling around with different radiators what you get is what you get.

[SergntMac]

I like Water Wetter.

The following 411 has been gleaned from my Kenny Brown #1x Marauder S over 3 years of ownership and abuse. It's a summary of my experience.

Mods: 180 stat, rear head cooling kit, two pints of Water Wetter in a 50/50 coolant mix, and 5W20 engine oil ('cause it's part of the cooling system plan), and a Scan Guage delivering the 411.
Performance: In winter months, from a cold (0 degree ambient temp) start, water temps reach 180 and the HVAC delivers cabin heat in seven minutes. No difference in the summer temps, other than ambient start up temps.

City crusing temps float between 187 and 190, but nothing higher. Ditto Highway temps, 183-187.

One time, I saw 200-205 on the Scan Guage and pulled over. It was a road trip, and I found my radiator/AC condenser clogged with all sorts of crap and debris. Stopped at a coin car wash and used the high pressure hose to clean out the crap. Fixed. All temps returned to normal.

BTW...There are two temp sensors on the Marauder 4V DOHC, both are mounted on the crossover pipe.

F2AZ-12A648-A delivers data to the EEC and costs 48.22 to replace. The other, F7DZ-10884-AA only drives the dash gauge, and costs 18.78 to replace. I mention this because one could go sour on you, while the other does not.

Over the summer of '05, I experimented with engine oil weights and found a significant difference in engine temps. The OEM suggestion of 5W20 delivered the lowest average temps, as stated above. 5W30 was also acceptable. All the rest that I tested back then caused the engine to run hot, and as hot as 210. There is a detailed thread on this, do a search if you need to learn more?

I've had only one winter experience with my bone stock #3 Marauder.
Mods: None. No 180 stat, no rear head cooling mod, no Water Wetter, and 75K on the odometer when I bought it. Just plugged in the scan gauge and watched.
Performance: Same warm up times and cabin heat production as stated above. City cruising averages 190/191 temps. Highway crusing will rise to 195/198 over 80 MPH, 200 above 85, and as long as I am into the throttle. Back off to 75 MPH, it comes to rests at 195, almost immediately. Engine oil weight is again 5W20.

Hope this helps with engine water temps, I love this Scan Gauge.

I also use Water Wetter in my #1x intercooler system. 1 pint to 1 gallon straight water. IATs stay within 10 degrees of ambient, except in the traps of the 1320, where I see 15-20 degrees above ambient. By the time I'm back to my pit, it's all cool again.

Bottom line...Water Wetter works for me.

[Rider90]

F2AZ-12A648-A delivers data to the EEC and costs 48.22 to replace. The other, F7DZ-10884-AA only drives the dash gauge, and costs 18.78 to replace. I mention this because one could go sour on you, while the other does not.
My cluster says near cold and the ScanGauge says 190*F...obviously one sensor is wrong. I'd like to replace both, do you have a picture of which goes on which side if they are different sensors?

[GreekGod]

Thermostat ratings are the temperature that they start to open. A 182 degree 'stat starts to open at 182 degrees. It is not fully open until around 212 degrees. Always check a new 'stat in a pan of water on the stove with a candy thermometer. You might be surprised at how small the opening is at the rated temp.

[1stMerc]

Glad this thread came up. Normally during winter and cooler ambient conditions Scanguage reports temps at between 180-184. Today it got up to 92 degrees and was running pretty steady at 187-190 while in motion and 194 sitting in traffic. Thought i might have cause to worry, but judging by the responses here it's nothing to worry about.

BTW, i'm using 2 pints water wetter in a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze.

[kartherma]

Some equations to help understand heat transfer...
This is extremely simplified, and I dont really know how to make the proper symbols, so those of you who know these equations work with me.

Heat transfer rate = Q
Mass flow rate= M
Specific heat capacity= c
Temperature in= Ti
Temperature out= To

Total heat transfer is proportional to (Mass flow rate) X (Specific Heat capacity) X (difference in temp across the heat exchanger...Ti-To)

So...

Your radiator has two sides to consider...an air side and a water side.
If you figure same speed of driving at the same outside temp/humidity/etc,
the air side would be constant. Our water pumps capacity is pretty much constant therefore the mass flow rate is constant on the water side. If an engine under a specific load at a specific rpm is unchanged from run to run it stands to reason that the inlet temperature would be the same.
In this case:
heat in the radiator = heat out
Qin=Qout =>
(Mair)x(Cair)x(Ti-To)air = (Mwater)x(Cwater)x(Ti-To)water
diving speed is constant and water pump output is constant so delete the effects of the M portions.

Without manipulating the equations, you should be able to see that the major components effecting heat transfer here are the mass flow rate, the capacity for heat transfer of the medium, and the difference in temperature.

So what does water wetter do?
It changes the capability of the coolant to transfer heat. Look at the basic equation and analyze for the result in the rise of Cwater...holding mass flow rate and difference in temperature constant...you get a larger heat transfer.
pretty simple really, it is really the only way we can change the characterisitics of our cooling system without a hardware change. There is true science behind the water/coolant issue :)

The cooling system is closed loop system that when the thermostat opens exposes the radiator to that loop. The thermostat being closed (under its set point temperature) allows the water pump to circulate water through the block and the water pump. When the temp rises above the thermostat set temp, it begins to open and now a dual flow path exists...part flow to the radiator and the other part back to the block.
This is where fluid flow issues become a problem. This is better discussed with pen and paper with diagrams and a calculator to show, but suffice it to say that the radiator will remove heat from the inner loop at a rate proportional to the rate it shares total system flow. (remember two parallel loops with one pump are running here).

There, I think I have said nothing!

be good!
Curt

[MENINBLK]

I have added Water Wetter to my antifreeze right after the thermostat was changed,
the system flushed, and fresh antifreeze installed.
Needle stays pointed right at 20MPH.

[purelux]

Isn't the diesel water wetter usually whats suggested if running with coolant as it tends not to gunk up and works better used with coolant. Also on the redline site their tech documents seemed to emphasize drawing heat out of the engine more efficently. By reducing hotspots and cavitation. Rather than saying it is going to drop the coolant tempature.

[Loco1234]

i have always used Purple Ice in both my radiator and intercooler water.
I use all Royal purple products and sync fuilds.
With the excpetion of their tranny fluid. I use amsoil Mercon 5 there....

but I have no complain about the Purple Ice. It will also allow you to use a UV light to find leaks in you fluid systems since the purple additive they use glows under UV light. A usefull purpose in its own right

[FordNut]

Is the purple ice compatible with antifreeze?

[Todd]

Isn't the diesel water wetter usually whats suggested if running with coolant as it tends not to gunk up and works better used with coolant. Also on the redline site their tech documents seemed to emphasize drawing heat out of the engine more efficently. By reducing hotspots and cavitation. Rather than saying it is going to drop the coolant tempature.


I dont think so. In fact, if you read the back of the bottle of regular watter wetter it suggests running it with 15% coolant/85% water to one bottle of water wetter. 2 bottles cant hurt I am sure.

I was told the difference between the diesel and regular versions but I cant remember off the top of my head.


Edit - I just got the reason. The diesel version does not have the corrosion inhibitors that the regular version has.

[purelux]

The diesel is also designed for 10-15 gallons of coolant vs about 16 LTR for the gas version.

[warren]

RE: The pink WW has a rust inhibitor in it that argues with our rust inhibitor in the gold long life fluid. Produces dk. brown floaters in the
coolent. Had to towell them out of the overflow and change out fluid.
They say they go back into solution when hot? The diesel version does not have the rust stuff in it and might be better for us. Only use 1/3 of bottle as the diesel is larger bottle.
The factory eng. also said run less anti-freeze not 50-50 --he runs
15% - I will go down to 33% by adding distilled wtr. The eng will run cooler. Summer time here gets to 104+

Warren