triolgy and lidio 12.958 @ 104.52

[keyboardracer]

i here lidio and the trilogy car posted a number this weekend!! Way to go Lidio!!

[Lidio]

Dang… I wanted to be the first to announce how the Trilogy MM did this past weekend but obviously it’s a small world and word got out fast.

Any way here is a quick recap on how the car ran.
Basically National Trail Raceway has traction like I’ve never seen or expected. I was able to actually brake torque a little higher then normal and the car spun the tires literally none at all! The sixty foot with the totally stock rear tires was an amazing 1.87! This is awesome with stock tires on such a heavy car with tons of low end grunt. The ET was 12.95 @ 104.52.
The weather was perfect, mid to high 50’s. This is all happening with the same tune and set up that I started with when we took the car to Florida for its first outing. Nothing more than better air and traction have giving us this great ET.

Just a quick recap on the car: The 3.55 gears, full exhaust, trans & torque converter are totally stock. The engine is stock with the exception of the Trilogy Eaton blower package added to an otherwise stock MM complete motor.

Also just to show off a little on Saturday evening at the track I put the MM on the mobile DynoJet dyno that was at the track and in third gear with the 50 Degree air we had… it pumped out the highest RWHP number we ever seen on the car: 391RWHP.
Unfortunately though people need to understand that the peak number here isn’t really the whole story. It’s the amount of torque that it makes from off idle to the redline, and just how broad it is with the Eaton.


Thanks

[MAD-3R]

Nice numbers

[BlackHole]

Wonder what It would do with the Torque converter and 3.90 gears I'm probably going to get soon. Got me thinking. Awsome for a 4,200 LB unaerodynamic brick.

[RF Overlord]

Very, very nice job, Lidio... :D

My only question would be how long you think the stock transmission, TC, driveshaft and rear end are going to hold up with that much power and traction in a car this heavy?

[prchrman]

Originally posted by RF Overlord

My only question would be how long you think the stock transmission, TC, driveshaft and rear end are going to hold up with that much power and traction in a car this heavy?

dido for me RF...aluminum block!?...cobra went to iron and better rods...why...longevity maybe...time will tell...:burnout:

[Lidio]

I think that with a drag radial, some exhaust, slightly looser converter and 3.90’s or 4.10’s will guaranty mid to low 12’s, plus 13-14psi of boost this could be very fun.

Some of the fears about the trans, rear axle and aluminum block we’ve dispelled and proven to not be a problem on other applications a long ago.

The aluminum block has been no problem at all on Mustangs that we’ve supercharged countless times. Even on 4.6’s that clear over 500 to 600RWHP. When some thing goes wrong with either head gaskets or stock pistons it’s never been the aluminum blocks fault in any way. Ford’s decision to go iron on the Cobra is not the final say as to weather not one should consider a power adder on their aluminum block equipped 4.6L car. Just wait till the new Supercharged GT-40 comes out… it will have an all aluminum 5.4L!

As far as the 8.8 rear end goes this is the very least of our concerns with this car’s power and weight. The 8.8 in the Mustang seen is tolerating on some cars as much as 600 to 800+ at the rear tires with stock housings and only beefed up posi’s and axle shafts. But even the components in the MM’s axle are plenty fine for what we’re doing to it and beyond.

Also the 4R70W trans in the MM is very, very tough. We put these behind some extremely powerful 302, 351, 392 strokers and 4.6L’s and nothing seems to bother them when their beefed-up properly and set up to shift firmly at WOT.
One thing I’ve proven first hand is that the younger (when its new and stock) the trans is when you shift-kit and firm up the shifts, the longer it will defiantly last…. Even behind 450-650HP motors. It’s not uncommon for us to put AOD-E’s and 4R70W’s into 9 and 10 second Mustangs that weight 3300 to 3500lbs.
The only thing I’m not satisfied with the Trilogy test car’s trans is that I cant get the 1 to 2 shift any firmer through computer programming. It looks like a shift kit will be recommended at this level of power. The 2 to 3d shift is dead firm and positive, but the 1-2 tends to slide and then hit. Its totally acceptable but could use a tweak. Even still… the worst that will happen with these transmissions is burnt clutches from the slight slippage when they don’t shift hard enough at WOT. Serious hard part failure in these transmissions is some thing I’ve yet to see.

Also forgot to mention that I drove it to Columbus for four hours… pounded it and drove it back. Once again it got over 25 MPG!


Thanks

[BODYMAN]

Lidio, it appears you guys have a very good handle on things. thanks for all the info and 12.9 that is awesome!!! Is it correct to assume the kit will be availble mid-summer? youre gonna make me go out and buy another Marauder (a silver) and have you guys do the work. Iam really impressed with youre 60ft times. I cannot get mine to perform that well at the 60ft mark. Anyhow keep us all posted and I'am not really kiddin about buying a second one and sending it to you!!!!!
Mine seems to be more at the top end I ran a 13.42 but at 105.97 mph. with that mph I belive I should be in the high 12's



Todd

[LincMercLover]

Hey 93, I'd be willing to take the hit and trade ya! ;)

[prchrman]

Lidio...good post...thanks...did not mean a slam just really concerned about the block...can you shed some light on why the cobra is iron if the aluminum will take the hp...and flame me but our motor does have steel sleeves...right...??? when my MM goes out of warranty...6 years or 72,000 miles I will be SCing...until then no performance mods...

[Lidio]

I know how things can get interpreted when on two different sides of the keyboard, but I didn’t take it as a slam at all. The fact that the ’03 Cobra went to an iron block in the last year has made it a little tougher sell for me on the older Cobra’s when trying to get some one into a power adder like a blower or NOS. But before the ’03 Cobra, we hit the older Cobra’s with a lot of HP and really have never had to blame the block for a problem.

This is a paragraph from something I wrote some where else and would like to share it here. It’s only my opinion. I have no direct ties with Ford Motor Company and haven’t confirmed any of the iron vs. aluminum stuff.

“My shop has supercharged and tuned about 200 32V Cobra’s and only a couple have had unexpected piston failure due to lack of octane or a lean condition caused by possibly a serious temperature change or some thing we couldn’t catch. But the “aluminum” 4.6 block (which some have questioned) has never been any sort of concern or blame under these conditions. I haven’t confirmed why the ’03 Cobra went to iron block rather then aluminum as in previous years. Some say it was for cost, others say strength.
My guess is it would be strength, even at the sacrifice of weight. As much as I believe the aluminum block is bad-ass and has been proven by myself and many others like Shawn Hyland and John Mahovits from AcuFab… that it will take well over 800 HP. I believe Ford had to worry about greater things when packaging the ’03 Cobra with a Supercharger. Things like warranty, abusive seventeen year olds with rich dads, and the inevitable “will” to change the blower drive pulleys to gain more boost and power which by the way is wide spread in the ’03 Cobra seen. This added boost by pulley change makes these motors produce a huge amount of low end torque which really loads the engine down hard when it’s a stick shift, below 2500rpm. They’ll make as much as 14psi or more at 2000rpm when tampered with! On an automatic trans car the converter really never works them that hard at that low of an rpm because of the stall speeds and fluid coupling.
And most don’t know this but Ford’s new GT-40 car will have an “aluminum” 5.4L block, and that engine will be supercharged.”



I know a lot of this sounds like a sales pitch but we want people to not be afraid to do viable and reliable upgrades to there vehicles. Supercharging is the number one power adder in the aftermarket from what I can see and we simply want to show and explain that it can be safe and reliable when treated correctly.




Thanks

[prchrman]

Lidio...very good post...with that much experience w/aluminum blocks I feel better about SCing...putting miles on my MM may be to see you in about 4-5 years (after warranty thing)...OBTW I am a process engineer in a foundry that pours 220 ci - 250 hp aluminum blocks...and before anyone asks...outboards...again very informative and this kind of info is why this site gets my attention (too much probably)...keep us updated...

[mensrea]

hang out or lurk on corral.net/svtoa and you will see a ton of people supercharging their cobra motors... moderation is the key to longevity, that and proper tuning.. don't be afraid of a little puff!

How did you guys launch?

[Ross]

All Right, let me be the first to ask the question that all of us old married men have to ask: how much to have this supercharger added on? Next, will I have to ship my car to you from Houston, or will there be local shops that can order your kit and add it on? Sounds awesome.

[Menace]

Ross, from what I've read here the sc will be around $5,000 not including install. As for how and where to have it installed I'm still waiting to here the 411 on this myself. The kit is supposed to be ready this month. Stay tuned.

[studio460]

Can anyone estimate what a Trilogy install might cost? I would probably have to install locally (I'm in Los Angeles). Where is Lidio's shop located?

[ChuckB]

NBC,

it would be better to find a local shop for the install. Lidio and Trilogy are in midwest. The eaton package should be much easier than a vortec type kit. Much less plumbing as the blower fit as the normal intake position.

i'm sure in LA (a meca for go fast) there are several shops willing and capable to do this. probably plan 8-16 shop hrs. This would be dependant on the fit and finish from trilogy and any extra fabrication that would be needed.

I've been keeping in contact with Lidio and Jery. latest email said the "kit" was planned for June. i'm sure the number of fab'ed parts for this install is high so add a little extra time for 1 or 2 vendors to be late.

if yah can't find a shop in LA you like drive yours up to sacramento and will do yours when i do mine.

[studio460]

Thanks for the offer, ChuckB! Now you've gotten me all worked up over this! After joining MM.net, I feel a special affinity for all of the members, and now, I just don't trust anyone working on the car that isn't also in love with their own Marauder!

At first, I was too skittish about detonation issues to even think about a blower. Ford's decision to go with an iron block for '03 Cobras also put me off at first. But after reading Lidio's excellent posts, I think I now have a severe case of supercharger fever. With Trilogy's conservative boost pressure, and the fact that I'm only occassionally going to go WOT (e.g., every OTHER stoplight), I think I'm destined to go with Trilogy's package.

A few questions for Trilogy/Lidio:

1. Does Trilogy's package include new fuel rails? If not, are aftermarket ones recommended?
2. Does Trilogy's package include a new fuel pump? If not, is an aftermarket one recommended?
3. Is Trilogy recommending upgraded pistons?
4. Does Trilogy reprogram the EEC as part of the package, or do they include a custom-programmed chip? Since I don't have the luxury of proximity to Lidio's shop, who will tune the chip?
5. Does Trilogy's EEC programming slightly retard timing to add another layer of protection against detonation?
6. What type of intercooler is used in the Trilogy package (air-air/air-water)?

Thanks for all your help!

[Lidio]

Trilogy’s blower kit for the MM will not include fuel rails. The factory rails are more than adequate for the job. Although 42lbs injectors will be included with the kit.

The kit will not include a fuel pump. The factory in tank pump has proven to be sufficient when used with a Kenny Bell “Boost-a-Pump”. This is a device that enhances the available voltage to just the fuel pump and greatly increases its flow and volume. By including a Boost-a-pump and simply wiring it into the trunk area saves time and labor by not dealing with tank R&R. Plus the KB Boosts-a-pump has been extremely reliable and so are the pumps its been attached to.

Trilogy is not recommended a piston upgrade. With proper tuning and octane the factory non forged pitons will not have a problem.

The kit will include a plug-in style chip with all of the extensive calibration work to support the blower install.

The chip does a lot more than just retard timing at conditions under boost. It changes fuel tables. It modifies torque converter lock-up strategy for better throttle response in city driving at low speeds, changes shift points, firms up shifts as much as possible at WOT but a its looking like a shift kit will be recommended with the Trilogy blower install because we feel the 1-2 shift cant be firmed up enough through computer tuning.

The inter-cooler is similar to the ’03 Cobra and the ’99 and newer Lightning. It’s a water to Air.


Thanks

[studio460]

Lidio:

Thanks for the thorough and prompt reply! Sorry, but it prompted a few more questions . . .

What torque converter do you recommend with the Trilogy install in place? Should I stay with the stock TC or go with a Stallion TC? And at what stall? In either case, I see that you're leaning toward a shift kit as well. Is a transmission cooler also advised? Is the stock drive shaft going to be okay as well? My usage will be strictly as a daily driver/road trip cruiser. My priority will be on reliability/robustness/pre-emptive maintenance oriented mods. If the shift kit isn't totally necessary (for a daily driver), not having it won't hurt anything will it?

Thanks for all your help!

[mensrea]

Lidio, tell us about your wifes 9 second grocery getter PLEASE???

[Lidio]

A torque converter change is not at all required with the Trilogy blower kit. It makes lots of boost and power right off idle. Changing the converter will only cause greater traction problems with the stock tires and even larger stickier tires as well. We’ve already installed a larger tire on the Trilogy car and with only the blower and all else stock, it’s roasting the bigger tires pretty easy. An additional trans cooler wouldn’t hurt but I’ve monitored the trans temp thru the data port and its not at all running to hot, even with the converter staying unlocked more often with my programming. The stock drive shaft seems to be of no worry at all for the added torque of the Trilogy blower kit.


This is off topic but here goes:

My wife’s car is a ’88 LX Mustang that she purchased new when we were still dating. She really doesn’t drive it that much any more for practicality reasons. In fact it only sees about 1500 miles a year. It’s a very clean un-botched Mustang trunk model that has a 392cu in stroker and a Vortech blower making about 19psi of boost. It has an AOD-E trans with after market trans computer controls for consitasant shifts at part and full throttle. The engine uses and after market computer to manage it as well. It still has all it normal road manners and handles very well. It’s gone a best of 9.71 in the1/4 mile in full street trim except for rear slicks and skinny fronts at the track only. It makes 645 at the rear wheels and runs on TurboBlue Leaded race gas which is 110 octane.


Thanks

[studio460]

Lidio:

Thanks a bunch for answering all my many questions--very, very much appreciated! Thinking real hard about making the L.A.-Dearborn commute for the install at your shop . . . but that is quite a haul. Hopefully I can find someone in Los Angeles to do it--know anyone here?

Thanks again for all your expert advice!

[Rangero]

Hey Lidio:

I've read pretty much everything there is to read about the Trilogy supercharger. Going with this kit is going to be realized in the future, however I was also thinking of 4.10s, up above you said you were having traction problems. Does this mean that I should not do the gear swap? or is it only on launch where I would need ease into it and would eventually give me quicker e.t.s than the stock gears?
Thanks in advance.....