I just want my car back.

[MAD-3R]

First of all, I want to thank everyone here for all their support, ideas, humor and symapthies. It really has ment alot to me.

On Friday, I went by the dealer and they had my engine AND trans out. Apparently they couldn't get the block out with out dropping the trans cause it locked so bad. They had removed the entire bottem end for the inspection, and from what I saw, the oil pump did fail. Wether it was from the balancer not being on, or over torqueing crackbolt, that is what caused the oil pump to stop functioning.

They showed me the barrings (I was picturing rollers, not curved metal bits) that were discolored, not all bright and shiny like they should have been.

They gave me an estimate and some "insentive" to them doing the work.

$9879.27

The insentive was that if they do the work, it would reinstate my warrenty, and I would have a loner car for the durration of the work. Ohhh another :censor: escort....

I'm only margenaly concidering it...

I'm stuck driving my wifes PT Cruiser. THough not a bad car by a long shot, it just not "mine."

[LincMercLover]

I'd say screw that motor. You put what YOU want in it, not what they want.

[MAD-3R's Wife]

I want his car back.. While he is driving mine, I am left waiting for a ride or walking. But I do want to fix his car up right. LOTS of power. Maybe even a supercharger. Oh well, at this time I can just dream. Still waiting on the money issue.

[Marauder57]

Mad-3R,

Sound like you have a special woman there....wanting the Supercharger and all....you had better get that quick...before she comes to her senses..... ;)

[MAD-3R]

She is, she is. I am very lucky, cause she "gets IT." As for getting it quick, like she said, it's all about the money.

[prchrman]

Mad-3r...if you are going to go with power adds again I would suggest having another shop do the work...you will just void the warranty again anyway...I would see about having a new cobra iron short block put in (stronger block, rods, etc.)...especially if you are going to supercharge...hope you get going soon and I am feel for you...:up: willie

[Logan]

$10K Good LORD! They're definately shop rating (or raping) you aren't they!

What are they doing on parts for you? What's their crate motor cost? I can get you parts at cost to help you out.

Also, you might want to check with KarKraft.com They had new Marauder crate motors not too long ago for dirt cheap. Around $4k. Your install shouldn't be more than maybe 10-20 hours. $1500-2000 at most on labor.

By my numbers, new crate motor and install at around $6k.

[MAD-3R]

R+R Engine Disassimble For Ford's inspection $1722
Install Complete Engine Assy $7312.10
Replace PCM $ 294
Misc Mats. and Prts. $100

Telling Ford to go :censor: themselves Priceless

[jefferson-mo]

New Marauder long block from the dealer


3W3Z-6007-AA COST(no mark-up) $5484.08 plus $600 core charge


If it was me I'd definitely go for the Cobra long block and have Dennis or someone comparable(?) modify it.......

[engine23ccvfd]

my vote from shm

78000 MUSTANG COBRA SHORTBLOCK 575HP/7500RPM2
$4,175 exchange1


Each shortblock is precision crafted.
Each Mustang Cobra block is deburred, line honed, decked, honed oversize with deck plates and fitted with forged pistons, forged rods, main studs, head studs, trimetal rod and main bearings and high strength rings suitable for nitrous or blower applications. The shortblock is offered with several different compression ratios. The forged crankshaft is detailed and the reciprocating assembly is balanced. Our skilled engine technicians assemble the shortblock to our own exacting specifications. A blueprinted oil pump, pickup and windage tray are also included. *note, does not contain head studs or gaskets.

dont know the torque but who needs a supercharger

[MAD-3R]

ANd yes, i see the Marauder engine listed on E-bay at this time :)

[Fourth Horseman]

I'm no expert, but wouldn't it be cheaper to just have your existing motor rebuilt at a good shop? Your block and heads are ok, aren't they?

[MAD-3R]

Not real sure frankly

[looking97233]

MAD- take a look here.

http://www.karkraft.com/engines.htm

They have new cobra engines for 12,500.
Would cost some more to get it set up.

They also have new 32v 4.6L motors (scroll down) for less than $3k. It says they are for the mark VIII. Mabye ask dennis about this? I don't know what the differences are.

[SergntMac]

Just my .02c here, I'm not disagreeing with anyone.

What does the absence of a balancer, or the presence of any other mods, have to do with a failed oil pump? Can anyone explain this to me? Maybe I missed something?

This offer sounds real fishy to me, that the true cause here is a failed oil pump, but they're going to stick it to you for having modded the car. Double fishy when they offer to restore the warranty after a 10K repair bill. Ask one of them to put on a mask, and we'll call it what it is. Oh, and replace the ECM too? Just teaching you a lesson, eh? Is something wrong with your present ECM?

"Incentives?" Who's holding the gun, the SM or the Rep?

New crate motor delivered and installed at LM dealer here in Chicago...$9787.43. At least this is close to legit.

If it were me...And I mean this...

I'd tell them to wrap it up broke and I'd take it home. There a dozen choices here, most are less expensive too. Even if you took the cheapest route, an e-bay motor, you're back up and running while you plan the second response.

Once you have the motor in your custody, it can be examined by a pro and you can debate further legal action. I believe that if it is the oil pump, you have a case, and the evidence safe in your lab, not their's. This may be an important issue to monitor, like the axle bearings. More of us may be affected in due time.

I'm sure the heads are good, but if you go with a short block assembly, a full engine rebuild is the only way to go. Those metal shaving went everywhere just before she seized.

Check out your options one more time?

[MAD-3R]

I am looking at options.

I actually beleve these guys about the pullies. I looked at the block, they had it on a stand, and rotated it so I could see. I think I will take the motor to a wrench I trust.

[Marauderman]

Ok--Now I'm confused- just what do you mean by the phrase
"I actually believe those guys about those pullies"...cause I'm thinking about getting them for my MM,,underdrive that is,,from Dennis ....and like Sarge mentioned somewhat...has the dealer come out factually and stated any of your mods caused this or not----( if this has been stated earlier--sorry I must have missed it)

[cyclone03]

The deal with the oil pump is it's mounted to the front of the crank.The pulley install it self would not have caused the problem,the problem is without the vibration damper,or harmonic balancer if you like,I torsonal vibration was left unchecked more than likly the cheap powdered metal gears in the oil pump started singing and failed.Sean Highland among others sell an improved oilpump to help prevent this under race conditions.
Hows that for a run on sentence?

[cruzer]

Maybe I missed this, but, did your oil pressure guage ever give you a low pressure indication ????????????????? If not , Why ???????????????/

[martyo]

Originally posted by cruzer
Maybe I missed this, but, did your oil pressure guage ever give you a low pressure indication ????????????????? If not , Why ???????????????/

You are kidding about the oil pressure gage, right???

[MAD-3R]

They had removed the entire bottem end for the inspection, and from what I saw, the oil pump did fail. Wether it was from the balancer not being on, or over torqueing crackbolt, that is what caused the oil pump to stop functioning.

The oil pressure gauge is binary, on or off. It doesn't measure anything.

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by MAD-3R
The oil pressure gauge is binary, on or off. It doesn't measure anything.

I would sure try to use that to my advantage. Make a deal and get them to own up to a basically worthless gauge. Hmmm say they pay half.....you pay half? Marty feasible ??

[MAD-3R]

If I had gotten the new pullies off, then yes, it would have been possable, but I didn't so it isn't.

[WolfeBros]

Sorry Mad. Just grabbing at straws here buddy......anything to try and help. :(

[prchrman]

Mad3r...with technology as good as it is today and the price we paid for these autos something should have indicated you were having a problem...I really feel this gauge IMHO is unethical and just plain wrong...It gives a false sense of everything is ok...I just hate the fact that the motor maybe could have been saved if it were a real gauge...this gauge to me is the biggest issue with my MM...it just makes me sick that it is just bells and whistles...sorry about carrying on but mad3r being out of commission is just not right!!!!!!!!!

some content deleted...well you know...

[jefferson-mo]

I agree on the gauge issue...I already went out and bought 'real' gauges...have to buy the voltmeter to match and also got a vacuum guage.......about $150 I proabably shouldn't have had to spend......................... .......

[MAD-3R]

I think tyhe best would be to take it in and "play" dumb. Just keep pointing at it and say, "It's not working, it's stuck." And when they say it's working right, just keep repeating, "It's not working, it's stuck."

[jefferson-mo]

:up:


:uzi:

:uzi:

[prchrman]

fight on Mad...I will even pray about this one because right is right and wrong is wrong...this is WRONG!!!!:bounce:

again some deleted verbage...willie

[MAD-3R]

Ahh, but one must step up and take responsability for one's actions. The gauge did not cause the pump to fail, the pully install did. I chose to have them installed, and it is time for me to pay the piper. I have talked to the wrench, and have worked things out with him.

I am exploring options and I will keep everyone posted. Just need to get the finances in order.

[LincMercLover]

MAD's right... He can blame the gauge for not informing him, but that still wouldn't have kept his motor from encountering any sort of damage.

[prchrman]

Mad3r...I appreciate you steping up to the plate...sign of a real man...but a fake gauge is just stupid and misleading to your average everyday kinda guy or gal...I have rebuilt cars from the ground up and am pretty savy about cars...but if I had not found this site I too would still be in the dark about the junk gauge...Mercury just plain needs to change out that gauge...again sorry about the ranting but...........

edit...edit...edit...edit...ed it...edit...

[martyo]

Post voluntarily deleted due to user comments.

[WolfeBros]

Originally posted by LincMercLover
MAD's right... He can blame the gauge for not informing him, but that still wouldn't have kept his motor from encountering any sort of damage.

Part of that statement is true. A shut down of that motor at first indication of trouble would most likely not have led to a catastrophic failure......IMHO. Something we will never know......so we can agree to disagree on this one LML.

It is exactly why cars, airplanes , ect.... were instrumented to begin with.

[prchrman]

thanks martyo...I am just a naive engineer...

edit...edit...edit...so on and so on...blah blah blah yackety smackety....

[prchrman]

Originally posted by WolfeBros

It is exactly why cars, airplanes , ect.... were instrumented to begin with.

my point exactly wolfe...

[MAD-3R]

Guy's. Thanks for the support, but the second fastest way to get a thread closed down is to start talking law suit. Please take it private. Thanks.

[martyo]

Post voluntarily deleted due to user comments.

[prchrman]

boy I am naive...:confused:

[WolfeBros]

I can't speak for Logan but I would think in his absence here that he would not like talk of class action suits on this board. It can lead to all types of pressure on him and this bbs. Time to take this private and do it thru PM's and phone calls. IMHO

[martyo]

Originally posted by WolfeBros
I can't speak for Logan but I would think in his absence here that he would not like talk of class action suits on this board. It can lead to all types of pressure on him and this bbs. Time to take this private and do it thru PM's and phone calls. IMHO

Point taken. Posts voluntarily deleted.

[prchrman]

Ok...sorry guys...I was talking more about just emailing or writing in type pressure...not lawsuits...just consumer pressure to make things right...comprenda amigos...I do not have funds to support a suit and just suggesting using our numbers for a little pressure in the right places...would do nothing to cause site problems...K...

[03 Merc]

Martyo,

Check your mail...

[mtnh]

The huge problem with the fake guage is that it is not paired with an idiot light in the instrument panel, if my memory of previous discussions serves me correctly. That's my issue. If a red light pops on in front of you, it gets your attention. A guage down on the bottom end of the center console will not alert you -- you need to check it. A gall dang red light is going to get your attention in a hurry, if it's right in your face. It's what they should have done, and it didn't get done, for whatever reason.

Mike

[RF Overlord]

I could maybe...MAYBE...understand not putting in a red light IF and ONLY IF the gauge were real... a fake gauge, well out of the normal sight-line, with NO backup idiot light, well, to quote willie, "that's just wrong"...

As WolfeBros said, if an indication of low/no oil pressure had been available sooner, we might not be having this conversation now...

Unfortunately, I doubt Ford will give a darn if the few of us on this board complain...they've already got our money...

[Warpath]

Originally posted by cyclone03
The deal with the oil pump is it's mounted to the front of the crank.The pulley install it self would not have caused the problem,the problem is without the vibration damper,or harmonic balancer if you like,I torsonal vibration was left unchecked more than likly the cheap powdered metal gears in the oil pump started singing and failed.Sean Highland among others sell an improved oilpump to help prevent this under race conditions.
Hows that for a run on sentence?

Exactly. I used to perform torsional vibration analyses at a diesel engine manufacturer. The cyclic load inputs of combustion, compression, and inertia/momentum changes excite the natural frequencies of the engine and driveline. The vibration would be twisting of the crank back and forth. In other words, the engine, trans, driveshaft, and axle are a series of masses and springs. The cyclic inputs can make these mass-springs resonate. The job of the "balancer" is to dampen these vibrations and/or tune them out of the normal operating range (depending on design). For example, if one of the natural frequencies occured at 700 rpm, the addition of the balancer could reduce the peak amplitude of the vibration and reduce the natural frequency to 300 rpm. If the balancer is removed, then boom.

MAD - If you go the rebuild route (which will give you stronger internals), plan about $3k-$4k for the rebuild alone. I haven't researched installation and removal much. I asked Sean Hyland how much to install their 800 hp short block and tune it and they told be about $10k US. I don't have $10k.

[Warpath]

Originally posted by engine23ccvfd
...dont know the torque but who needs a supercharger

Me. And some nitrous too please.:D

[MAD-3R]

Thats the biggest problem. IF someone were to tell me they could replace my engine for $1000, i would be hard pressed to scrape it together right now. :lol: I am talking to my credit Union, and a home equity loan is in the works.

[WolfeBros]

Damn I love this place.
We have alot of people on here with different areas of expertise.
Thanks for the great post guys. I knew what the balancer did I just didn't know how to express it. I have forgotten most of what I knew about natural resonances. I do know that most material all have a natural resonance frequency which gone on unchecked will grow in amplitude until the material self destructs. One of these failure cycles is called 'whirl mode'. A crankshaft spinning at speed with all the forces acting on it definitely needs to be damped.

[Warpath]

Whirl is a bit different. It is the drive shaft acting like a jump rope whirling around. The vibration I discussed is torsional vibration. You can think of it as +/- rpm (it actually is). When at the natural frequency, the amplitude will grow until it self destructs if it is undamped. If damped enough, it will stay together. The natural frequency changes a bit when damping is added.

[WolfeBros]

I have exhausted my knowledge on the subject. I am depending on you and Cyclone now Joe. :D

[sailsmen]

Seeing a post about a dealer SM advising installing Silverstars would void the warranty makes me concerned that I voided my warranty when I had my flat fixed the day after I bought the MM.

Although I had the flat fixed by a National Brand Tire Repair store that is owned by an OEM Ford tire supplier the patch and the air that they used are not Ford parts!

Has any one else had a flat fixed and not refilled the tire with Ford air?:) :bs: :bs: :bs:

[FLA RAUD FAN]

MAD,
Just my thoughts after reading this thread.....IF the car was a second vehicle and IF you had the extra cheese....then by all means go all out.
If the car is a primary means of transportation...which seems to be the case, I think I would e-mail the guy in Georgia that has the NEW motor listed on E-bay and explain the situation. Maybe you can get it for 2500-2700 beans. Then check around for a good local wrench or disscus it with your SM about installation.
Get the cash to cover the total and get back on the road.
The car sems to be pretty sweet bone stock to me!!!
Keep your losses to a minimum so to speak..
Whatever you decide, good luck getting your MM going again.
JP

[WolfeBros]

Sailsmen......I am with you buddy !! :D
Good post.