The registry is offering a deal on FR500 cam/valve kit

[juno]

Check it out. $1525
http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50285

[Big House]

NateDogg,

Are these the cams you have in your car now? If so how are they?

[natedog1284]

NateDogg,

Are these the cams you have in your car now? If so how are they?

Yes they are indeed, and they are awesome! Greatly improved performance over stock when combined with the FR500 heads. That is an awesome price too, so if anyone is interested, jump on it, (especially those of you who prefer to stay NA). Great find Juno!
-Nate

[Blackened300a]

Cams + Heads + Installation = Not worth all that cash for the gains.

[94_302]

This may be a dumb question but it says that it pulls to the fuel cutoff at 7k rpms. I know that stock the Mach autos can rev higher than the 5spds isnt that because of the forged crank in the 5spds? If thats the case does our crank limit some of the gain these cams would have for our cars?

[SergntMac]

This M-6550-T46 valve/spring/cam kit is intended for use only with the bare FR500 heads M-6049-T46 (right head) and M-6050-T46 (left head), also offered by Ford Racing. Peek at page 45 of the '06 FRP catalogue?

You cannot use this valve/spring/cam kit on any OEM Marauder/Cobra/Mach I head or engine "out of the box". The custom machine work required to make them work will kill your "deal" in labor dollars, even if you know someone who can do all that for you who's willing to give you a break 'cause you sweep the floors of his shop and provide idle chatter while he toils away on your "deal". BTW, the FRP catalogue price on this kit is 1699., plus shipping, so, where's the "deal", eh?

It's been discussed here before, and "adding cams" in general is problematic to begin with. There are no cam bearings on our heads/cams, our cams ride on girdles, not bearing surfaces. So, there's lot's of custom machining, line boring, and bearing install waiting before new cams can be applied to worn OEM heads, not to mention the improvements you will need to make to the valve seats, guides and so on before this (or any suggested) cam kit can/will provide any power improvement.

That said (and rounding out numbers here), let's tally?

Bare FR500 heads are 1500 bucks a set. This valve/spring/cam kit adds another 1500 bucks to make the FR500 heads workable. Add 1K for custom/professional assembly and final fit and finish issues, and you're at 4K before install and tuning.

If you try to use your OEM Marauder/Cobra/Mach I heads, it won't make any difference. The machining needed and done by a pro (if you know one) will be more than buying the bare heads.

So...What do you get for your 4K investment? Well, FRP says that with proper tuning and either the FRP shorty, or, Kook's mid-length headers in place, 60 to 80 RWHP from a N/A engine. Hell, skip this "estimated" crap, let's just call it 100 RWHP as possible across the board, just for the sake of this discussion?

Tally again...Heads, valves/springs/cams, and head assembly. Then comes install, followed by tuning, and the purchase and install of one type of header, or, another, plus exhaust system work to connect all that...

Your investment is more over 5K than under, right? IMHO...Buy a blower.

Any blower kit sold here is still the best bang for the buck on a Marauder no matter what "sale" you stumble on, and you can install any of them yourself and without making a mess of things.

Today, the low end is a budget 3995. ProCharger kit from F.I.T., and the high end is a polished Eaton kit from Trilogy for 6995., and both will add well over 100 RWHP to your stock Marauder. Do the math.

Just my .02C gents, carry on...

[MarauderTJA]

Any blower kit sold here is still the best bang for the buck on a Marauder no matter what "sale" you stumble on, and you can install any of them yourself and without making a mess of things.

Today, the low end is a budget 3995. ProCharger kit from F.I.T., and the high end is a polished Eaton kit from Trilogy for 6995., and both will add well over 100 RWHP to your stock Marauder. Do the math.

Ditto Mac! Once again you are right on. :D

[SergntMac]

Ditto Mac! Once again you are right on. :D Thanks Tom, but just so you know, I am not trying to quash, or, quell anyone's dreams of bigger and better. I hate like Hell to pour rain on anyone's parade.

My post is just another reality check for anyone looking to experiment. The #1x has done all this crap already, and if I don't speak up with my results, lot's of Marauder owners could get sucked into a financial abyss much deeper than they imagined. That journey has no Hollywood ending, and I cannot let it pass without comment from my own personal experience.

[MarauderTJA]

Thanks Tom, but just so you know, I am not trying to quash, or, quell anyone's dreams of bigger and better. I hate like Hell to pour rain on anyone's parade.

My post is just another reality check for anyone looking to experiment. The #1x has done all this crap already, and if I don't speak up with my results, lot's of Marauder owners could get sucked into a financial abyss much deeper than they imagined. That journey has no Hollywood ending, and I cannot let it pass without comment from my own personal experience.

Mac, I agree. None of us want to hurt a vendor, whether on this website or another. However, those of us that have experience (and spent serious time and $$) in high performance modifications, IMO, bear a responsibility to at least let people know of our experience. Everyone wants additional power. A lot of people get sucked into the vacum too easily and as a result spend money for little or modest gains. A supercharger is without question the biggest bang for the buck when it comes to additional horsepower. A supercharger is a bolt on component that ultimately can put more HP to the ground than most power-adders, short of nitrous, which is another story all together. This website is one of the best places to get valuable education from other members experience. And that is what these posts are all about.

[juno]

I thought these cams and valve kit can be used in any late 4v head?

[WildMarauder]

Yes they are indeed, and they are awesome! Greatly improved performance over stock when combined with the FR500 heads. That is an awesome price too, so if anyone is interested, jump on it, (especially those of you who prefer to stay NA). Great find Juno!
-Nate

Aside from the cash outlay, what is the downside if any? How does the FR500 cam kit affect fuel economy if that is an issue?

Thanks in advance.

[juno]

It probably will hurt fuel economy on an NA car. I hope not more than 1 mpg, but just a guess. It won't matter on a blown car.:D



Aside from the cash outlay, what is the downside if any? How does the FR500 cam kit affect fuel economy if that is an issue?

Thanks in advance.

[SergntMac]

I thought these cams and valve kit can be used in any late 4v head?Maybe you could use the cams alone and see improvements with the OEM valve train in place, but the valves that come with the FR 500 kit are larger in several dimensions, and require professional head work. Even if just the cams, the project will require some line boring and install of cam bearings.

OTOH, you don't get anywhere without exploring, just a shame that the stuff we want to try is so expensive to explore.

IMHO, this is the downside of mod motors. Everything seems "use once and replace", but in modular pre-assembled units and not as individual parts.

As I said in another post, my passenger side cam girdles (which tension the valve covers in place) were really messed up in a sour build. I could not buy fresh girdles alone, just a full head assembly. Even if I could, line boring and a bearing kit would be necessary to match the wear and tear of other components carried over. Also took me a week to locate main bolts, also a "use once and toss" item, and no one had any on hand because Techs at a dealership don't rebuild engines anymore, they just reassemble modular structures, like block and head assemblies. A few years ago, it wasn't even that, just fully built crate engines.

This is expensive and frustrating, makes a lot of stuff "disposable", IMHO.

[Master]

Just another 2c: I installed the cams (M-6550-T46) on the heads after having them ported (not polished) and port matched. Adding the Kooks headers and no intake mods whatsoever (I still use the factory airbox and filter), I gained a real 62 rwhp. I bought the cams for $1400 USD on e-bay. The Kooks, well, you all know the cost. The head work was done gratis. The most expensive part was the install at $1200 USD. My mileage is the same as or better than it was before the mod. The seat of the pants feel is much like having gotten in a different car. Should I ever get it tuned (no easy way here on the east coast), I suspect I'll see even greater gains. The midrange imrovement, by the way, is huge. It is like having a different car.
Maybe that was more than 2c, but what the heck.
By the way: People keep talking about installation costs, and header costs and the like. Aren't we all doing that any way? Who Doesn't have a header system. And as for the $6000 supercharger, I'd really hate to put a dollar value on the time it takes to install these. If you had to pay shop rates, it sure woudln't be cheap. Same goes for the cams. If you can do it yourself, great. If you can't, the price starts going up.
I think the biggest point I'm making here is that these cams work just fine out of the box with no line-boring or valve seat cutting or anything. They are made for these heads. If you like N/A cars, I recommend this mod.

All the best,
-D

[juno]

Here are some other options also. Cams and Springs.

http://rpmoutlet.com/mach1cam.htm crower

http://rpmoutlet.com/mach1bbk2.htm comp

[WildMarauder]

It probably will hurt fuel economy on an NA car. I hope not more than 1 mpg, but just a guess. It won't matter on a blown car.:D

Why would it be different if supercharged? I don't know much about the cam profile, but if for example there is significant overlap, could it not significantly hurt fuel economy for a blown daily driver? Are the cams a relatively mild grind?
Thanks again.

[SergntMac]

Master...Congrats on your new found power. 62 RWHP gain is awesome, but IMHO, half of that is owed to the Kook's header, yes? Have any torgue gain numbers, and at what RMP?

I think the biggest point I'm making here is that these cams work just fine out of the box with no line-boring or valve seat cutting or anything. They are made for these heads. If you like N/A cars, I recommend this mod. All the best, -D "made for these heads"...I hope I'm misreading this, or, that you left something out. If you mean the FR 500 heads, yes. Stock OEM/Marauder heads, no. Did you install the entire M-6550-T46 kit, or just the cams?

OEM cam girdles have no bearing surface to wear, or, replace. The cams ride on the aluminum head pedestals directly and girdles ride bare back as well. If you are starting out with fresh, new OEM heads, you may be okay. If your restoring used heads, you have to deal with the wear and tear already in place, i.e. girdles and pedestals will be loose.

If you don't line bore the cam mounts for a precision fit and install bearings to guard against future wear, you not going to get the full potential of your upgrade, as the cams will rock, roll, rattle and tick in it's mount. This will cause friction and friction slows the valve train, creates heat, and further increases future wear. Not getting full potential is one thing, shorting your longevity is another.

I've done the OEM overhaul with new Crower "beehive" springs and keepers, as the OEM valve spring was not up to snuff in the high RPMs and binding. When I researched my options, the cost of a complete professional head job with HP cams done right (done once), I was not comfortable with the investment and payback.

Anyone with concerns are welcome to speak with Mike Halley at Hi-Flow Heads. He's done a lot of design/engineering with Ford. 708.396.0505

Carry on gents.

[juno]

I don't know what the results will be but generally as people mod their motors they drive more spirited and it is hard to guage real MPG numbers. I know I do not have the restraint.


Why would it be different if supercharged? I don't know much about the cam profile, but if for example there is significant overlap, could it not significantly hurt fuel economy for a blown daily driver? Are the cams a relatively mild grind?
Thanks again.

[natedog1284]

Just another 2c: I installed the cams (M-6550-T46) on the heads after having them ported (not polished) and port matched. Adding the Kooks headers and no intake mods whatsoever (I still use the factory airbox and filter), I gained a real 62 rwhp. I bought the cams for $1400 USD on e-bay. The Kooks, well, you all know the cost. The head work was done gratis. The most expensive part was the install at $1200 USD. My mileage is the same as or better than it was before the mod. The seat of the pants feel is much like having gotten in a different car. Should I ever get it tuned (no easy way here on the east coast), I suspect I'll see even greater gains. The midrange imrovement, by the way, is huge. It is like having a different car.
Maybe that was more than 2c, but what the heck.

Well said. I'm sure I gained at least that. Yes, some of the power comes from the headers, but that much is stated in the description on Ford Racing Part's website. I had already had the headers put on, and had a cold air intake, (I believe I had the JLT on at the time). As was said before, it's hard to measure gas mileage with new found power under your foot, but after having had them on for a while, and cruising on the highway everyday, I have noticed little if any change in mpg, (actually, if anything, I think it may be a little better). But I have also not had a dyno tune, just a generic Lidio tune from Wes. So that may change, but I'm sure it'll be worth it.
Yes, it is an expensive mod, but at least in my case, my factory head (passenger I believe) was cracked, and was not going to be replaced under warranty, so I had to find another option. When these heads came up for only $2500, unused and already assembled, I jumped on it, if for no other reason than I wanted my car back!
Now I just really need to get that variable geometry intake manifold and a twin turbo setup, and I'll be golden!
-Nate