4.10 vs. 4.33

[Dragcity]

I May be taking the plunge into gears. CHEAP HORSEPOWER !

I am wondering how those who have them feel about the drivability between 4.10 & 4.33.

I am thinking 4.33 would be too steep for the rain and especially the snow (which will be comming soon to Buffalo).


I am so on the fence about this. Not sure I want to sacrifice the 3.55 Highway drivability, but I know my Marauder wants to launch harder and she has been begging for smaller gears.

My Brohter is in town the first week in July and can help with the swap and set-up. He is a former mechanic and presently installs and repairs MRI equipment, so it should be an easy project.....

I have done a lot with the old Ford Indistructo 9" units.

So what you all say.....????

I imagine DR could get them out to me by July 1 !!!

[TAF]

4.10s .

[RF Overlord]

4.10s are the most popular choice by far, as there's a large improvement in the car's launch, but a relatively small penalty in overall gas mileage, unless you do mostly highway driving.

Whichever ratio you choose, definitely do the gears...you will not be sorry...I'm aware of only one member who regretted it out of the dozens who have done this mod.

[fastblackmerc]

4.10's. I haven't regretted installing mine.

[Dragcity]

Just called my dealer and he said I will only loose warrenty on the rear axle and diff. Not bad.

4.10 may be in my Marauders near future......

[fastblackmerc]

I wouldn't have alerted them at all. They'd never be able to tell unless they counted the teeth or tire / drive shaft rotation.

With the 4.10's your speedo will be off so you'll have to get a new tune / tuner.

BTW... the 4.10's won't do anythng for horsepower. It will just feel like it.

For HP I'd recommend underdrive pulleys.

[Dragcity]

I have a Tuner capable of changing ratios.

I know about the HP statement. Just an old saying from my racing days....

UD's very effective? Any issues associated with UDing?

My dealer is very nice to me and really loves my car. He assigns only one tech to work on it and always takes good care of me. Honesty is my policy and when dealing with my friends, everything is open and up front.

Now, what about the Drive shaft I have read so much about? Is this a bridge I should cross as I come to it? Or should I plan on Drive shaft work?

Hey RayJay, Didn't you do the 4.10 swap????

[fastblackmerc]

Two things with underdrive pulleys:

1. Have to increase the idle speed by about 200RPM.

2. I used steel pulleys, there are aluminium pulleys out there but I don't know how they wear.

Driveshaft - I've had my MM up to 120MPH with no vibration whatsoever. Since all MM's are different you may or may not have to balance or change out the driveshaft.

[Dragcity]

Thanks Fastblack!

Tuner allows idle speed adjustments....

Will I need a new belt for new pulleys, or is there enough adjustment available to take up the slack?

I would guess hte aluminum would hold up, if made correctly.....

Time for another search.....

[rayjay]

I have a Tuner capable of changing ratios.

I know about the HP statement. Just an old saying from my racing days....

UD's very effective? Any issues associated with UDing?

My dealer is very nice to me and really loves my car. He assigns only one tech to work on it and always takes good care of me. Honesty is my policy and when dealing with my friends, everything is open and up front.

Now, what about the Drive shaft I have read so much about? Is this a bridge I should cross as I come to it? Or should I plan on Drive shaft work?

Hey RayJay, Didn't you do the 4.10 swap????

Nope, I'm sticking with the 3.55s for now. I like my 19.5 mpg around here and the 25.5+ mpg on the road.

[Dragcity]

Sorry RayJay, Thought that in one of our previous chats you did this.

My MPG has absolutely sucked lately..... I have adjusted and re-adjusted all the perameters I can. I am at 17 & 22 and think it should do better.

Additionally, the timing has been way retarded. I know I need more advance. I have my tuner set to the max available and have leaned out the A/F as much as possible, and in turn have made it as rich as possible with no positive results.

My electric fan is blowing like crazy on these 85 degree days with no preignition (ping) at all.... Can't get her to ping if I try.

In the old days I would put someone in the car and have them do a break torque up to stall and turn the distributor unlil I got a ping, and then back off abit. Done.....


Maybe our gasoline in Buffalo just sucks. But then I should be pinging????


Gears will help.

Sorry I am rambeling.

Thanks for listening....

[fastblackmerc]

Thanks Fastblack!

Tuner allows idle speed adjustments....

Will I need a new belt for new pulleys, or is there enough adjustment available to take up the slack?

I would guess hte aluminum would hold up, if made correctly.....

Time for another search.....
No need to change the belt, use the old one.

I got my Steeda UD's on eBay from Steeda. P/N 701-0004. You'll get 3 pulleys (water pump, alternator & crankshaft). You only use the crankshaft & water pump pulleys. See my review of the install.

[Dragcity]

Fastblack, I read your thread. Thanks. I may be able to use the alternator as I have a 2004 ?????

I see where I can find these pulleys.

[fastblackmerc]

I don't think you can use the alternator pulley. The UD pulleys are for a Mustang. I think they have a different alternator pulley.

[Smokie]

In regards to gears, if you are unhappy with current mpg. 4.33's will make you sadder.

Steeda U/D's is what I had and would recommend no less, they have a harmonic dampener and I feel with our powdered metal oil pump gears at the front end of the crankshaft anything less is asking for trouble.

The pulleys do allow more HP to reach the rear wheels (about 8 more) more important it allows the revs to come up faster....gets you in the sweet spot quicker.

[RF Overlord]

^^^what Smokie said^^^

I had Steedas (from Dennis) until the blower install and I liked them a lot.

On the Marauder, it's neither recommended nor necessary to change the alternator pulley. You won't gain anything significant by doing so, and you'll need to up the idle speed even more to compensate.

[O's Fan Rich]

Nope, I'm sticking with the 3.55s for now. I like my 19.5 mpg around here and the 25.5+ mpg on the road.
Rayjay... that's what I'm getting WITH my 4:10's..... sorry.
I lost about 1.5 mpg across the board.
I got 25-26 hwy in Florida in April, 'cept for those all that stop and go in Bradenton.:burnout:

[Marauder]

It depends on what you goal is for the 4.30s. Gas mileage, it'll only get worse. Top speed, it'll only go down. Off the line, bat out of hell. Overall acceleration, much improved.

There's a member here with 4.56 gears.

Those must be insane off the line!!!


PS: I didn't know they made 4.33s for the 8.8. I thought it was 3.27, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10, 4.30, 4.56.

[Dragcity]

Yeah, Yeah. That's what I meant.....4.30's

I think I'll go wihit 4.10. I'm sure the 4.30 won't like the snow much. I even worry about the 4.10's a bit. But with the big ash winter tires I have, I'm sure it'll work out.

Thanks for all the input and support all.

My resistance to mechanical mods has indeed been futile. I feel so assimilated.....

[the_pack_rat]

In the old days I would put someone in the car and have them do a break torque up to stall and turn the distributor unlil I got a ping, and then back off abit. Done.....


Been there done that as well as simple "trial & error" road tests, just under the pinch of pinging on more Oldsmobile motors than I can remember.

Owned/played with cars since the age of 14/15(1985/1986) .....

Never owned an actual timing light till' the late 90's.

[Blackened300a]

I like my 4.10s alot. I drive on the highway and do a lot of city driving. The 4.10s made the car more lively like the way it should have been made.
I also have Steeda U/D Pullies and They made a notciable improvement in all gears.
Go for that combo with a good tune and it will feel like a completely different car.

[warren]

Yeah, Yeah. That's what I meant.....4.30's

I think I'll go wihit 4.10. I'm sure the 4.30 won't like the snow much. I even worry about the 4.10's a bit. But with the big ash winter tires I have, I'm sure it'll work out.

Thanks for all the input and support all.

My resistance to mechanical mods has indeed been futile. I feel so assimilated.....

I did the Metal Matrix driveshaft and 410's from Dennis R. at the same time because of Harmonics.
To protect the trans. I did lots of study on this and it was a safety decision. With a tune SCT ( you will need to chg. the rear ratio in your PCM ) to change the speedo. The MM will shift different and have a much higher top end and need the margin for safety.
Consider All the FHP under cover MM's in Florida done by Dennis have a MMX drive shaft for that reason.
The DS is an easy to do at the same time.
There are many threads you can refer to by using the search function here on MM.NET
Your MM will really jump with the 410's or 430's. It needs it. A PI friend let me drive his new GTO with the 400hp engine the other nite and yes it felt like my MM.

My 2 cents.

Warren

[jstevens]

4.10's, Billygman has 4.56

[Marauderman]

4.10's, Billygman has 4.56
...........and I'm running 430's for now.......still under testing so to speak---can go back to the 410's but these 430's are a lot more it seems over the 410's---maybe its me--donno---anyway----......due to a higher TQ (3K) , and along with the gears, not so sure its worst going higher--a helluv kick though and pass 80 --its just 4th and all pedal--don't need much --rpm's stay pretty much in place and the MPH really go up--bye,bye :burnout:

[Rider90]

IMHO going from 3.55 to 4.10 didn't make sense until the test drive. 4.10 gears all the way! I wonder sometimes if I should move to 4.30s but as-is I have too much power to get traction for.

So another vote for 4.10s. If you are looking to keep your MPG up, you need to decide if you want speed or fuel mileage. Last time I checked it is hard to satisfy both beasts unless you drive a Prius, as seen on their board with their list of *KILLS* :rolleyes: ( http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=16201 ) Props to 94_302 for the link.

[Marauder.45]

Remember that we run a 28" tire, and gear ratios are calculated on a 26" tire. So to get a true 4:10 ratio, you need to either switch to a smaller tire, or go with a higher gear. Say, a 4:30.

I have 4:10s and still get 19mpg city. My driveshaft does need to be replaced. It's fine for street, but at the track I run a 26" slick.

[SergntMac]

If I had a "do over" moment, I would select the 4:30 ratio today. OTOH, gasoline prices do affect this...Today.

4:10s.

Upp...I do have a "do over", I have my #3 Marauder!

Sorry, dude...Due to the present price per gallon, I'm not changing gears...

[Dragcity]

-Post Deleted-

[Dragcity]

I do believe I am ordering 4.10's from DR today. I found Steeda part # 701-0004 for $129 on ebay. I think that's a go too.

The garden hose for Father's day just didn't cut it, but this will do,.....just fine!

[fastblackmerc]

I do believe I am ordering 4.10's from DR today. I found Steeda part # 701-0004 for $129 on ebay. I think that's a go too.
You won't be sorry.:D

[max454]

what is the part number for 4,10s from ford racing ?

[fastblackmerc]

what is the part number for 4,10s from ford racing ?
Find a Ford Racing Dealer near you. Here is a link to the website & catalog:

http://www.fordracingparts.com/home/home.asp

[max454]

there are no listings for mm parts in the catalog

[HwyCruiser]

I had a chance to "do-over" when I did the Moser axle / Detroit True-Trac diff this spring so I went with 4.30's this time around. She runs about 2500 rpm at 70 mph in OD, where as with the 4.10s ran about 2500 rpms at 74 mph in OD.

To be honest I don't pay much attention to the Marauder's gas mileage because my F-150 is my commuter vehicle. Highway mileage might have dropped 1 mpg, but still around 21 mpg. TMF will be by shortly to brag about his 23 mpg with 4.30s.

I really don't notice a big difference in responsiveness other than on the highway in the passing gear since the rpms are deeper in the torque band. Still no track results but I'm hoping to pick up a couple mphs in the traps. Going from 3.55s to 4.10s is (of course) a bigger / more noticeable jump than going from 4.10s to 4.30s, so it really depends on what your goal is. Don't loose any sleep over the decision to go with 4.10s.

[max454]

also, what can i expect on the track timewise if i run 15 flat with the 3,55 , just changing gears ?

[BruteForce]

Mine is going in tomorrow for Moser axle / Eaton Posi upgrade. I'm going for a "do over" too but to 4.56 from 4.10. I'm hoping for a noticeable difference.

[HwyCruiser]

That should do it!

[SergntMac]

there are no listings for mm parts in the catalogThere are only two Marauder parts in the FRP catalogue, wheels and resonated Meg's tips. The parts you are seeking are for the 8.8 rear end, page 142.

4:10 gears = M-4209-G410A
4:30 gears = M-4209-G430M

Also, there is a gear installation kit on page 139 that delivers everything you could need for a complete installation.

M-4210-C

I suggest you add the Dana 60 stud kit (M-4034-A, page 141) and racing girdle )M-4033-G1, page 141) for long term durability.

Good luck!

[Smokie]

also, what can i expect on the track timewise if i run 15 flat with the 3,55 , just changing gears ?

I believe you meant with just the gears and tuning to correct shift points and speedo, you might go 1-2 tenths faster. Without tuning you may run the same or slower.:)

Track times very greatly even without changing anything, you need to compare the conditions as close as possible.

[Marauderman]

...........and I'm running 430's for now.......still under testing so to speak---can go back to the 410's but these 430's are a lot more it seems over the 410's---maybe its me--donno---anyway----......due to a higher TQ (3K) , and along with the gears, not so sure its worst going higher--a helluv kick though and pass 80 --its just 4th and all pedal--don't need much --rpm's stay pretty much in place and the MPH really go up--bye,bye :burnout:
Just to let ya'll know---I canged back to the 410's----as Sarge stated---with gas prices and all----and those 430's didn't play into my style of day to day use------and BTW---those 430's of mine are still for sale.........Tom

[max454]

thanks for your replys gents, i have the xcal2 for tunes. Im just wondering if its worth that much money for 2 tenths maybe.

[SergntMac]

Im just wondering if its worth that much money for 2 tenths maybe.As you grow into this car, and after it does what it will do to you, you may feel differently.

14.0x gets real boring, when 13.9x is a few hundered bucks away...

[max454]

i agree, cause i love this car, but right now im at a flat 15 with a xcal2 tune and a jlt intake , if i could get low 14s with just adding gears, it would be already done , but if its only 2 tenths for the 5-600 bucks its gonna cost me , i dont know yet. Especially with the possible drive shaft thingy afterwards, i do a lot of freeway driving!

[Smokie]

i agree, cause i love this car, but right now im at a flat 15 with a xcal2 tune and a jlt intake , if i could get low 14s with just adding gears, it would be already done , but if its only 2 tenths for the 5-600 bucks its gonna cost me , i dont know yet. Especially with the possible drive shaft thingy afterwards, i do a lot of freeway driving!

Let me provide you with some perspective, if you currently run 15 in good conditions (cool air) with your tune and intake, adding the gears will NOT take you to low 14's in cool air.

Gears and T/C SHOULD take you down to low 14's. I never ran my car "bonestock" but after a "flash tune" it ran 14.5's several times and 14.49 once.

Your trap speed will tell you if your car can run the 1/4 faster than "your driving" If your traps are 95-97 mph your car is faster than "you", if your traps are 92-94 mph you are driving average, if your traps are below 92 mph you are driving it very well...or letting off the gas too soon.:)

[max454]

im in the 95-97 range, what do you mean by faster than me ?

[Smokie]

im in the 95-97 range, what do you mean by faster than me ?

Your trap speed tells you what kind of HP you have even if you are not very good on your take off, meaning that how well you launch your car can make a .2 to .4 difference in your 1/4 mile ET.

So if you run 15 flat at about 93-94 mph you are driving ok, that same 15 flat with a trap speed of 95 or higher, you are not launching as well as you could....your car can be driven faster than you are driving it.

[max454]

should have know that! ( got me blushing now )
what would you say is best on the lauch with the stock convertor, load it up at say 1500 rpm or leave it be ?

[Smokie]

should have know that! ( got me blushing now )
what would you say is best on the lauch with the stock convertor, load it up at say 1500 rpm or leave it be ?

I experimented between simply idle and 1500 rpm's, my best results were at about 1000--1200 rpm's, depending on track prep and tire air pressure. When you are stock or lightly modified you want on take off just a SLIGHT chirp, no more.

You make your tires squeal...you messed up.:D

[ductman]

I would think about 4.30's, I put 4.10's in the car and I can still do 80 in the left lane without the tach going crazy. It is very drivable with 4.10's and did help performance, but I actually think if I did it again I would go for the 4.30's to help it even more out of the hole. The difference between stock gears and 4.10s is not as huge as some make it out to be, but definately worth doing though.

[Marauderman]

The difference between stock gears and 4.10s is not as huge as some make it out to be, but definately worth doing though.-------

-You have to be kidding! Right??...it makes a huge difference------gotta remember--alot of folks hardly felt 3:55's do anything with the stock power--duh! (302 HP) it wasn't there -then the 410s' and "BOOM!!--It's back in the seat pants thrust ---what it should have been--------come on now!!!!!!!!..........Tom

[bagpiper]

I went with 4.10s but if I did it over, it would be 4.30s.

[ductman]

-------

-You have to be kidding! Right??...it makes a huge difference------gotta remember--alot of folks hardly felt 3:55's do anything with the stock power--duh! (302 HP) it wasn't there -then the 410s' and "BOOM!!--It's back in the seat pants thrust ---what it should have been--------come on now!!!!!!!!..........Tom

Some people make it out to be almost the same as putting a blower on, when in fact, with TC off the car still does not really burn rubber from a stop. If I want to spin them, I have to powerbrake it. My basically stock 95 impala SS burns rubber most of the way through first gear with 3.08s. I figured the maurader with 4.10s would blaze them and it still falls short. I am still waiting for my intake to show up and then have it programed. Hopefully that will wake it up as everyone says it will... The RPMs also did not change that much at highway speeds either, the car is very drivable...I think there is still plenty of room to go up to 4.30s. I did not say it was not worth doing, just that i wish I had done the 4.30s. The OD makes it very drivable. I have a 69 camaro with 3.73s and no OD. It is tough to drive it in the left lane on the highway. Basically if you drive the car everyday and are thinking about gears, don't be scared, DO IT! at least 4.10s, but I would think about 4.30s. I think they would be better. and...still waiting for the BOOM...