My MPG went up 17%!!!

[blackf0rk]

I don't know how to explain this without getting banned or what-not, but I couldn't NOT share this with you. In short, I've found a real product that is NOT a fuel additive, is NOT a detergent, and is NOT moth balls (or equivalent).

I've bought the product, I've tested it, and it works for me. I went from 17MPG to a consistent 20.4MPG - that's a 17% increase! And of course, the cost of the product does not outweigh the benefits (which would be pointless).

Gas prices are murder, and they're getting worse. Please PM me if you're interested in finding out more.


MODs/Admin(s):
If this post is somewhere outside the realms of what can be posted, please accept my apology. I am not here to spam; just here to share my results and excitment!

[MM03MOK]

We freely talk about Seafoam, Zaino, Motorcraft, Mobil1 and other products here. As long as you're not a sales agent for the product that competes with a supporting vendor's product, please feel free to share your find openly!

[SergntMac]

I already have a block of wood under my throttle that provides the same results. What's up your sleeve?

[Bradley G]

I barely got 15 mpg on the last tank 225 mi. on 14.6 gal.
So it's ok, the Bunny Lady, said so.

[blackf0rk]

We freely talk about Seafoam
Seafoam is actually quite awesome for an engine cleaner and fuel additive.

The difference between the two is that this isn't a fuel additive, detergent, or moth balls. The company calls it a fuel suppliment. And it doesn't actually add anything to the gas.

[Marauder2005]

I already have a block of wood under my throttle that provides the same results. What's up your sleeve?

HAHA--- Please share

[Breadfan]

Is it that fuel catalyst thingy I saw on the power block as a commercial over the weekend?

[duhtroll]

1) What is it?

2) How much did you have to pay for the product itself? Don't forget to include the cost in your MPG calculations. Money is money.


I don't know how to explain this without getting banned or what-not, but I couldn't NOT share this with you. In short, I've found a real product that is NOT a fuel additive, is NOT a detergent, and is NOT moth balls (or equivalent).

I've bought the product, I've tested it, and it works for me. I went from 17MPG to a consistent 20.4MPG - that's a 17% increase! And of course, the cost of the product does not outweigh the benefits (which would be pointless).

Gas prices are murder, and they're getting worse. Please PM me if you're interested in finding out more.


MODs/Admin(s):
If this post is somewhere outside the realms of what can be posted, please accept my apology. I am not here to spam; just here to share my results and excitment!

[LVMarauder]

ya spill the beans, I think we'd all be interested.

[blackf0rk]

Ok, more info can be obtained here:
http://poweryourpetro.myffi.biz

The treatment is applied everytime you fill your tank. So you place one "cap" in per 12-22 gals and they cost $2/cap. Depending on your increases MPGs, that's like giving someone $2, and they give you back $10.

[KillJoy]

The difference between the two is that this isn't a fuel additive, detergent, or moth balls. The company calls it a fuel suppliment. And it doesn't actually add anything to the gas.


The treatment is applied everytime you fill your tank. So you place one "cap" in per 12-22 gals and they cost $2/cap.

So....it IS an additive.... you add it to your gas.... right?

KillJoy

[KillJoy]

I found this in the FAQ area...

Q. What is an MPG-CAP™?

A. MPG-Cap™ is a 100% organic engine conditioner that simultaneously improves fuel economy and power by creating a micro-thin coating on the combustion chamber in your engine allowing your fuel to burn more efficiently.
Q: Has MPG-CAP™ been effectively tested?
A: Yes, MPG-CAP™ has been tested in both laboratory and road tests with significant results in effective performance. Fuel Freedom International guarantees a 7-14% improvement in fuel economy. If you drive with a heavy foot, you will notice an increase in performance, but not a high increase in mileage.
Q. Why should I use MPG-CAP™?
A. MPG-CAP™ increases the overall vehicle performance, including increase in fuel efficiency in miles per gallon, decrease in engine wear and tear, decrease in greenhouse gases pollution, and a reduction in engine operating temperatures.
Q. Is MPG-CAP™ harmful to my engine's seals?
A. No, MPG-CAP™ do not contain anything harmful to the engine, gaskets, or seals.
Q. How does MPG-CAP™ differ from other fuel additives?
A. MPG-CAP™ is not a fuel additive. It is a combustion chamber conditioner that improves an engine’s internal combustion process to give you lower emissions, better gas mileage, and better fuel economy. Some fuel additives serve only as “fuel system cleaners” adding detergents, or harmful chemicals that can hurt your engine. MPG-CAPs™ are 100% safe for the environment and for your engine.”
Q. What type of fuel should be used with MPG-CAP™ ?
A. Any grade of Gasoline, Diesel, Biodiesel, and Ethanol-Gasoline blends may be used. The lower the grade of fuel used, the more noticeable the improvement.
Q. How often should I use MPG-CAP™ ?
A. MPG-CAP™ should be used with every fill-up.
Q. Is MPG-CAP™ registered with the E.P.A.?
A. Yes. MPG-CAP™Yes, the EPA has reviewed the third-party research report submitted by FFI and consequently registered the product(#201 220 001).The EPA does not endorse, certify, or approve any product.
Q. Is FFi Insured?
A. . Yes Fuel Freedom International LLC is fully insured for premises, operations, and products/completed operations. Policy is provided by Auto Owners Insurance Company with the following limits : 1 Million/ each occurrence, 2 Million/ General Aggregate, 2 Million/ products/Comp/Op Aggregate Click here to see a copy of the policy. (http://poweryourpetro.myffi.biz/en/pdf/ffi_insurance_policy.pdf)
Q. Can MPG-CAP™ be used in other motorized machines as well?
A. Yes, MPG-CAP™ can be used in all diesel or gasoline powered engines such as boats, agricultural equipment, heavy machinery, etc. as well as 2-cycle equipment such as outboard motors, chain saws, lawn mowers, etc. Further, MPG-CAP™ may be used biodiesel fuels and ethanol-gasoline blends.
Q. Does MPG-CAP™ reduce fuel emissions and improve the environment?
A. MPG-CAP™ can reduce carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxide and carbon dioxide.
Q. What happens if I spill MPG-CAP™ on my hands?
A. Simply wipe off the MPG-CAP™ with a clean paper towel and wash your hands.
Q. Will MPG-CAP™ work in my antique or classic car?
A. Yes. MPG-CAP™ will improve the performance of older cars as well.
Q. Can MPG-CAP™ cause any damage to my car's fuel system or catalytic converter?
A. MPG-CAP™ will not damage fuel systems or catalytic converters.
Q. Will MPG-CAP™ aid in starting my car in extreme temperatures?
A. Yes. MPG-CAP™ helps start your engine easier in both hot and cold temperatures.
Q. Can MPG-CAP™ clean my fuel system like other additives might?
A. MPG-CAP™ is not a fuel additive. It creates a micro-thin coating on the combustion chamber in your engine allowing your fuel to burn more efficiently.
Q. Does MPG-CAP™ improve my vehicle's fuel mileage?
A. MPG-CAP™ will help you save money while delivering greater efficiency and performance results at the same time. MPG-CAP™ will condition your engine and help your engine last longer, too! . If you drive with a heavy foot, you will notice an increase in performance, but not a high increase in mileage. If you drive following the speed limits, your mileage will increase 7-14%.
Q: Is MPG-CAP an environmentally safe product?
A: MPG-CAP™ is EPA registered and is safe for use in all pump fuels.
Q. Is the MPG-Cap™ safe?
A. Yes, please click here to see the Material Safety Data Sheet (http://poweryourpetro.myffi.biz/en/pdf/material_safety_data.pdf)

[duhtroll]

No, no no! You're not getting it. It isn't added to the FUEL. . .

It's added to the TANK.

I'm all for it if it works, but not calling it a fuel additive is kinda silly IMO. Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.


So....it IS an additive.... you add it to your gas.... right?

KillJoy

[Breadfan]

I found this in the FAQ area...

Q. What is an MPG-CAP™?

A. MPG-Cap™ is a 100% organic engine conditioner that simultaneously improves fuel economy and power by creating a micro-thin coating on the combustion chamber in your engine allowing your fuel to burn more efficiently.



So, uh, it causes goo-buildup increasing compression ratio making your engine more efficient? Organic...so carbon-based, maybe it increases carbon buildup on pistons!

Sorry...I want unbiased scientific data showing an increase before I'll believe...but if it worked for you that's a start I guess.

[RF Overlord]

Thanks, Breadfan, you beat me to it...

I mean no disrespect to Mr. f0rk either, but what the hell is a "micro-thin coating"...and how does it perform all these miracles? I'm skepical about any inexpensive product that claims to have myriad wonderous properties.

"Greater economy"..."improved performance"..."lower emissions"...the only thing they left out was: "too good to be true"...

[Rider90]

I ain't puttin' that schnit in my tank to let it run through a 460 horsepower supercharged engine...you got some cajones Jourdan...

[Bluerauder]

If you drive with a heavy foot, you will notice an increase in performance, but not a high increase in mileage.[/B]
Put me in the skeptical column on this non-fuel additive miracle stuff, too. :rolleyes:

In my case, the statement above should have said "When" not "If ....". :rofl:


100% organic ... micro-thin coating
I think that is what used to be known as "Slime". :rolleyes:

[wchain]

While I'm happy it worked for you, a quick net search reveals more about the product.

Apparently theres plenty of information about this. Because its a multi level marketing scheme.

http://myfloridalegal.com/lit_ec.nsf/investigations/9A273C156767B36B85257179004731 3C

The case file cited below relates to a civil -- not a criminal -- investigation. The existence of an investigation does not constitute proof of any violation of law.

<table id="formmastertable" border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top" width="40%">Case Number:</td> <td>L06-3-1090</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">
Subject of investigation:</td> <td>
Fuel Freedom International, LLC and David Matichak, Resident Agent</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">
Subject's address:</td> <td>
650 Douglas Avenue, Suite 1040 Altamonte Springs, FL 32714</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">
Subject's business:</td> <td>
Multilevel marketing</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2">
Allegation or issue being investigated:
Unfair/deceptive business practices in the sale of product that purports to make gasoline burn with greater efficiency without independent scientific testing to substantiate claim. Further, product is sold/distributed by means of multi-level marketing whereby the compensation is not based primarily on volume of bona fide sales. Possible violations of Florida Unfair or Deceptive Trade Practices Act, F.S. 501.201. et. seq., production and/or soliciting on behalf of a chain letter or pyramid club (F.S. 849.091).</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top">
AG unit handling case:</td> <td>
Economic Crimes Division in Orlando, Florida</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff198149.htm

I joined FFI on 5/8/06. Paid a total of $256.00. I did not receive my product or start up kit. Then the company took $56.00 out of my checking account on 6/8/06 and still I did not get any product.

I sent notice to the company to cancel my membership due to the inablilty to ship me product. They agreed and refunded the $56.00 but never the $256.00.

So I now filed a complaint to the Florida and Missouri Attorney General. There is already an investigation going on in the State of Florida by the Attorney General. It is listed on their site.

Since the company would not send me any product initially I paid an additional $156.00 to purchase 70 tablets in order to run my own tests before I got too involved in this program during the month of May. I used these 70 tablets to test 7 vehicles in Missouri and California (three gas vehicles and four diesel trucks) according to the FFI instructions. All the test showed an initial improvement but then showed no improvement over a longer period of time and most of them showed less mpg than the vehicles were getting before any usage. This was a controlled test.

The pill sounds good but it did not work for me. There may be a good reason why the pills did not work. I have my suspisions. It may be that it is completely out of the company's control and the answer lies within the vehicles themselves. But the company should certainly be aware of this.

The fact the company takes money and does not deliver product for long periods of time is an indication of cash flow problems (not production problems). The fact the company will not refund money for no product delivery is another red flag.

I was really hoping this company and its product would be a gas saver and allow everyone to make big bucks. But evidently it is not.

Patrick
Saint Charles, Missouri
U.S.A.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff193834.htm

They take your money for a distributor program of a product that does not work to save you fuel,it's called an MPG Cap. They want you to sell distributor programs ,not the product. Then you are suppose to make money off of the disributor programs you sell.

Then they set you up on an auto-ship program to where you are automatically sent the product for your own use,which who wants it any way.But that is suppose to build up a buyer volume that your suppose to make money off of,This would be after the fact that you already set other people up on a rip-off program

Don't do it!!! Save Your Money!!!

Robert
Quakertown, Pennsylvania
U.S.A.

http://www.mmfhoh.org/index.php?m=20060608
http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/mlm_gasoline.html


http://bsalert.com/artsearch.php?fn=2&as=1165&dt=1

One of the latest ads sweeping the Internet is a "gas pill" marketed by Fuel Freedom International. Fuel Freedom International says dropping a $2 MPG-Cap in your tank with every fill up will increase mileage by 10 percent or 20 percent. When expert with AAA checked out the pill, the results were not as advertised.
The Environmental Protection Agency has not tested MPG-Caps, but it has tested more than 100 other gadgets and additives that say they will save gas and has found they do not work.

"Those kind of claims, we have yet to find any kind of device or additive that can produce that type of result," said Joni Lupovitz of the Federal Trade Commission.

This doesn't apparently stop stupid consumers from believing otherwise.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Moms/story?id=1850045&page=1

April 17, 2006 — With the average price of a gallon of regular gas soaring to $2.68, drivers are looking for any way to cut down on costs at the pump.
Consumer groups, however, warn promotions promising quick fixes are usually too good to be true.
One of the latest ads sweeping the Internet is a "gas pill" marketed by Fuel Freedom International. Fuel Freedom International says dropping a $2 MPG-Cap in your tank with every fill up will increase mileage by 10 percent or 20 percent. When ABC affiliate WPVI asked a AAA expert to test-drive the pill, results were not as significant.
AAA saw no improvement while driving at 34 mph and just a 4 percent increase in mileage at 65 mph.
The company recommended a bigger dose, but when AAA used four pills in the tank, it didn't make a difference.
"I didn't see anything approaching any of the claims for 10 [percent], 20 [percent] or 30 percent improvement in mileage," said Tom McLaughlin of AAA.
The company suggested McLaughlin might have to burn several tanks of gas before the pill kicked in. Fuel Freedom International did not return "Good Morning America's" calls for comment.
The Environmental Protection Agency has not tested MPG-Caps, but it has tested more than 100 other gadgets and additives that say they will save gas and has found they do not work.
"Those kind of claims, we have yet to find any kind of device or additive that can produce that type of result," said Joni Lupovitz of the Federal Trade Commission.
In 2005, ABC investigated a $90 million magnet that attached to your fuel line and was supposed to increase mileage by 27 percent. Lupovitz said when the product was tested, it was found to be bogus. The FTC sued the company, which agreed to pull its ads.
"We really want marketers to know we're watching them. We're monitoring the airwaves and the Internet and the print ads, and that we will take action if we see something that's egregious," Lupovitz said.


Just my :twocents: but if it works and youre not scared of running something like that in your high performance MM, then go for it! Personally I beleive the key to good gas mileage is a well maintained and moderately driven vehicle.

On the other hand, most of us didn't go out and buy the MM for fuel economy either......I am well aware of that and thats what das beater, the 300D TurboDiesel is for. I'm running B99 Biodiesel and getting 26 MPG as the daily driver.

[Breadfan]

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff193834.htm
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> They take your money for a distributor program of a product that does not work to save you fuel,it's called an MPG Cap. They want you to sell distributor programs ,not the product. Then you are suppose to make money off of the disributor programs you sell.

Then they set you up on an auto-ship program to where you are automatically sent the product for your own use,which who wants it any way.But that is suppose to build up a buyer volume that your suppose to make money off of,This would be after the fact that you already set other people up on a rip-off program

Don't do it!!! Save Your Money!!!

Robert
Quakertown, Pennsylvania
U.S.A.</td></tr></tbody></table>



I don't know how to explain this without getting banned or what-not, but I couldn't NOT share this with you. In short, I've found a real product that is NOT a fuel additive, is NOT a detergent, and is NOT moth balls (or equivalent).

I've bought the product, I've tested it, and it works for me. I went from 17MPG to a consistent 20.4MPG - that's a 17% increase! And of course, the cost of the product does not outweigh the benefits (which would be pointless).

Gas prices are murder, and they're getting worse. Please PM me if you're interested in finding out more.


MODs/Admin(s):
If this post is somewhere outside the realms of what can be posted, please accept my apology. I am not here to spam; just here to share my results and excitment!
So uh, sometimes I can act a tad paranoid. So, you're a distributor then? I'm not pointing any fingers, so no need to get defensive, but this product is obviously snake oil and that fact concerns me. Something doesn't feel right about this, so perhaps it needs more discussion. Your signature is interesting too:


Trilogy Supercharger #84
Representing Southeastern Wisconsin!
| Silverstar Lights & Fogs | Sunroof |
http://www.enspiar.com/images/PYP.gif (http://poweryourpetro.myffi.biz/)
Come on man...

So, why exactly should I be dropping a "pill" into my gas tank made by a company that is under investigation?

I think we need an explanation, because this doesn't seem right.

[kj31067]

saw this one coming from the original post. i got an e mail a month and a half ago from an ex co-worker with the exact same pitch. almost word for word. when i saw it last you had to intially put in 2 pills at the start and then maintain with one each fill-up. if a product is that good it will sell itself. word of mouth moves like wildfire. me? i ll throw the two bucks in the tank.!!

[STLR FN]

Why do I sense a version of the Pyramid scheme after reading this.

[blackf0rk]

All I can say is that I have used the product. It worked for me, and many others. Some of the comments made in this thread are quite ignorant such as "its obviously snake oil". Well, it's snake oil if it doesn't work.

Secondly, the company is under investigation (which is a good thing) because there are other companies marketing similar products like this but actually ARE snake oil - they turn out to be nothing but moth ball equivalents that do nothing.

Look at at the FAQ, look at the fact that it's EPA approved, and has been tested in a federal court of law three times to gain at least 10%, and that it works for me (among othrers).

All I can say is read the FAQ and try it out. If you don't like it, send it back and get your money back.

I wouldn't have started this thread if it didn't work for me. I'm sorry that you all think I would try to mislead you all.

[blackf0rk]

Why do I sense a version of the Pyramid scheme after reading this.
It's not a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal and happen (most of the time) on intengible items, and on items that are not guaranteed or that have a money back guarantee.

Honestly, I saw it had a money back guarantee, it was EPA approved, so I tried it.

[blackf0rk]

I ain't puttin' that schnit in my tank to let it run through a 460 horsepower supercharged engine...you got some cajones Jourdan...
I put it in my dads Murano first :D :lol:

[RF Overlord]

blackf0rk, I'm not trying to dis you here...it's just that we've heard things like this before...back in Oct of '04, another member posted about a Fuel Combustion Modifier that he was very proud of and that he was working with the company to bring it to market...supposedly good for 12-15% improvement in economy, yet we've never heard another peep about it since. This just sounds like more of the same...

[Breadfan]

All I can say is read the FAQ and try it out. If you don't like it, send it back and get your money back.

Really they're "FAQ" does not interest me. There credibility has been questioned by many sources so I would not trust their FAQ.

I would trust independent research and from what Wes posted it's not looking too promising.

Now, if you'd like to do a controlled test with an independent observer I would be very interested in the results.

Anything less than that and I'm calling it snake oil. That is not ignorant IMO, but I think putting magic pills in my tank without proof from a controlled test would be.

[blackf0rk]

blackf0rk, I'm not trying to dis you here...it's just that we've heard things like this before...back in Oct of '04, another member posted about a Fuel Combustion Modifier that he was very proud of and that he was working with the company to bring it to market...supposedly good for 12-15% improvement in economy, yet we've never heard another peep about it since. This just sounds like more of the same...
Suspicion about this product is inevitable because of other products out there that have the same claims. In regards to your post though, 1. I'm not working with this/a company to bring it to the market 2. I've already tested it and have results.

What more proof does someone need than a fellow Marauder owner telling you that it personally works. I can't physically wave my magic wand and have mickey mouse show up and tell you it works. At some point you will have to prove it to yourself.

I'm just here telling you it worked for me.

[Breadfan]

Suspicion about this product is inevitable because of other products out there that have the same claims. In regards to your post though, 1. I'm not working with this/a company to bring it to the market 2. I've already tested it and have results.

What more proof does someone need than a fellow Marauder owner telling you that it personally works. I can't physically wave my magic wand and have mickey mouse show up and tell you it works. At some point you will have to prove it to yourself.

I'm just here telling you it worked for me.

Run a controlled test with an independant witness. That's all.

[blackf0rk]

Really they're "FAQ" does not interest me. There credibility has been questioned by many sources so I would not trust their FAQ.

I would trust independent research and from what Wes posted it's not looking too promising.

Now, if you'd like to do a controlled test with an independent observer I would be very interested in the results.

Anything less than that and I'm calling it snake oil. That is not ignorant IMO, but I think putting magic pills in my tank without proof from a controlled test would be.
I didn't say the FAQ proved anything, but it does show how it's different than other so-called fuel additives. That's worth something there; at least it was when I was deciding to try it.

The Federal Government (in a court of law) tested it three separate times and proved it effective. How much more of an "independant research" can you get?

What's your definition of a controlled test? I've done my tests, and continue to do them on three cars. I'm proving it to myself, I've found that it works, and am sharing it with you. If you don't believe me, don't. Your loss though I guess.

[N40GL]

Yes - and I can prove it. I bought a simple, easy to use device and my mileage doubled! In fact, no matter how much I drive my car around, I can't seem to use up the gas in the tank! It's a simple, easy to obtain device that anybody anywhere can buy, and there's no FTC or other complaints about its efficacy. You can get it anywhere, although you have to look for a store in your neighborhood. In fact, I am so positive it will work for you, that I will give my personal guarantee that, if used correctly, you will experience the same mileage increases I did.

Here's what I used: click (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=3716&c=3)

I'm amazed no one thought of it before.

[blackf0rk]

Run a controlled test with an independant witness. That's all.
Even that will not be good enough for you, or whoever else. And I say that because I've done this already, I've personally witnessed the MPG increase on my father's vehicle. My point is that you can say "independant witness" all you want, the fact still remains that you're going to have to trust someone.

I could run multiple tests and record results for many people and I have the feeling people would be still saying "I want independant results, fact sheets, graphs, and proof".

[Breadfan]

A controlled test would be to put in a tank of gas from a station, and run the tank through a typical driving route. Calculate MPG. Then run one with the pill using the same gas from the same station, and the same driving route.

Basically a controlled test would eliminate as many outside variables as possible giving us an indication of the MPG's with the pill and without it.

And it would contain hard data.

You say 17%, what were the raw numbers, how were the tests run, etc. What car was this on, what were the numbers on the other cars tested, what were the test routes, etc.

I'm not trying to be a pest here but the company that makes this stuff is VERY suspicious and I think it would be a bad idea to start dropping pills into ones gas tank without some hard proof and scientific tests.

[Breadfan]

Even that will not be good enough for you, or whoever else. And I say that because I've done this already, I've personally witnessed the MPG increase on my father's vehicle. My point is that you can say "independant witness" all you want, the fact still remains that you're going to have to trust someone.

I could run multiple tests and record results for many people and I have the feeling people would be still saying "I want independant results, fact sheets, graphs, and proof".

Actually that would be fine with me. Like I said, a controlled test with data. People do want fact sheets, graphs, and data, that is proof.

Asking for an independent witness is nothing out of the ordinary either, all good tests are done by unbiased independent people. Maybe you are that person. Still nothing odd there, independent tests are done all the time.

If you've recorded results, can you post the data then?

[RF Overlord]

I've done my tests, and continue to do them on three cars.Can you give us more info on your tests? What kinds of cars? How many tanks of fuel have you been through on each? Are you getting a consistent 17% in all three cars? Things like that...

I'm not trying to break your huevos here, it's just that you made a claim of substantial improvement and I think we'd all like to see your test parameters.

*Dammit Breadfan, you keep beating me to it...!

[blackf0rk]

I'm not trying to be a pest here but the company that makes this stuff is VERY suspicious and I think it would be a bad idea to start dropping pills into ones gas tank without some hard proof and scientific tests.
The scientific tests have been conducted already since 1975. The product was actually used with NASA prior to it's commercialization recently. The Web page has all the info on that and the videos contain a lot of info too. BUT, tests done personally are important too, as you said.

And Breadfan, it's all good. It's good to ask these questions. And this company has nothing to hide or run from, and it hasn't.

Here's how my first test went:

My first test was conducted on a 2006 Nissan Murano - brand new. The car consistantly got 17.3MPG since it is driven in the same matter pretty much the same way, week in and week out.

1. Before the cap, we got 17.3MPG [This was mostly city driving with some highway mixed in.]
2. The first tank fillup, 1 cap added [No considerable increase to note a change. Or to deam the product working]
3. Second tank fillup, added 1 cap [This tank was all highway driving and we got the MPG up to 20.4. Again, this was highway so nothing to really jump about]
4. Filled up tank again, 1 cap added [This full tank was all city driving and we noted that the MPG stayed at 20.4!]

From that point up to now the vehicle is at 20.3 to 20.4MPG in city driving.

I need to point out that the way we did it, is not how they instruct you to do it. You're suppose to put in 2 for the first two fillups.

That may be the reason for us not seeing results sooner? I don't know. But I am now testing my Marauder and Cavalier and will post results when they're conclusive. I will be following their instructions explicitly.

[wchain]

Its not a pyramid, Its "multi level marketing"

Also, bsalert.com states that MPG Caps were not EPA tested. I sent an email to the EPA also, asking them if they tested this product.

[blackf0rk]

Its not a pyramid, Its "multi level marketing"

Also, bsalert.com states that MPG Caps were not EPA tested. I sent an email to the EPA also, asking them if they tested this product.
I think bsalert.com should alert themselves maybe? :) But seriously, lets say they weren't, that doesn't mean they don't work. lol

Here's an official statement that FFI just released:



There appears to be quite a lot of confusion about the FFI MPG-CAPS and the technology behind them, and also the facts about other so called Fuel Additives marketed and sold here in the U.S. marketplace.

Lets start of by saying that the majority of fuel additives, treatments, conditioners etc marketed and sold in the U.S. are merely detergents that serve to clean the fuel system but do nothing to the combustion characteristics of fuel, or more importantly to the combustion chamber itself, and this is exactly what separates our products from all others, and where our technology and products are formulated to perform!

Think of our products as engine “supplements”, these supplements carry the active compounds into the combustion chamber where they are “activated” to perform the process they were engineered to create; the burning of fuel more cleanly and quickly.

The many claims that our competitors make about improving fuel combustion are simply false. With modern fuels, the combustion rate is 99.5%, so just how much of a gain would anyone expect to get with these competitive products?

When we created the technology used in the MPG-CAPS, we took a long careful scientific approach to the situation.

We know the dynamics of combustion vary depending on pressures, temperatures, ignition techniques, vaporization, and chemical characteristics of the fuel.

We know that fuels are efficient to a point of 99.5 %. So how can we improve on this? Simply, we addressed the state of the combustion chamber itself, and the relationship therein of the fuel and how it is “processed”.

What we have developed is a method of providing a catalytic coating in the combustion chamber. This catalytic coating provides infinite nano-phase surface area for the catalyst to deposit on. This catalytic coating causes a catalytic reaction to occur in its presence.

So now we utilize the fuel to carry the MPG-Cap™, in its dissolved state, to the combustion chamber where the heat of combustion activates the chemical compound and creates a very thin coating on the metal surfaces of the internal components of the combustion chamber.

What this catalyst does, for our purposes, is to cause a change in what is called the “in-cylinder rate shaping” of the combustion. This in turn provides for a 30% increase in pressure on the down stroke of the piston in a time frame slightly altered from a non-catalyzed state. This results in the improved performance.

So we have a technology that is proven, does not alter fuel, contains no detergents or cleansing agents, is totally unique from all other products sold, and provides the most valued result of all: an increase in fuel economy.

[wchain]

Of Course a product manufacturer is going to say all these good things about themselves on their website!

This seems awfully convenient that your mileage went up 17% and then your signature says the same thing, almost like a script that you were given. If you're selling it, you should become a vendor on here and market the product. If it gets good results, you'll be all set.

I guess the angle I'm taking is, that you go spend 30K plus for a car, then slap on a 6K blower, and you're worried about fuel mileage, and adding in some kind of 'supplement' to increase mileage. I most certainly would not be doing that to a high performance vehicle like a Trilogized Marauder.

Did you add the fuel magnet and tornado as well to get the 17% increase? ;)

[blackf0rk]

This seems awfully convenient that your mileage went up 17% and then your signature says the same thing, almost like a script that you were given.
Uhm. WTH are you talking about? My signature says my increase was 17% because it actually was. I don't understand your logic on that. I did make my signature say what it says, I wasn't given that graphic. Is that what you mean?


I guess the angle I'm taking is, that you go spend 30K plus for a car, then slap on a 6K blower, and you're worried about fuel mileage
I'm not all that worried about fuel mileage. But if I can increase my MPG as easy as this - it's a no brainer; at least for me it is.


Did you add the fuel magnet and tornado as well to get the 17% increase? ;)
If you don't want to believe what the company says - that's underrstandable and fair. And f you don't want to have an open mind about it, believe my personal testimony that's fine too. But you don't have to patronize me like that. The Tornado and fuel magnets have been tested and proven to not work - on a massive scale. You're comparing apples to oranges.

When you make comments like that you prove your ignorance and that you're not open to the possibility that this product might work if you put some testing of yourself into it.

[Rider90]

Only on this site can someone suggest a small solution to what so many tight wads have been complaining about and get shot down for it :rolleyes:

[blackf0rk]

Only on this site can someone suggest a small solution to what so many tight wads have been complaining about and get shot down for it :rolleyes:
Yea, no kidding. I test this on my vehicles, get great numbers, share if with you, and I have people burning me for it.

I expected a little skeptisism, but c'mon, some of what you guys are saying is borderline hate. Gimme a break.

Last time I share anything.

[SergntMac]

Suspicion about this product is inevitable because of other products out there that have the same claims. In regards to your post though, 1. I'm not working with this/a company to bring it to the market 2. I've already tested it and have results. What more proof does someone need than a fellow Marauder owner telling you that it personally works. I respect that you are willing to stand your ground on your personal results, bravo! Unfortunately, other incidents that have come up for discussion here, have spoiled the anticipation of loyalty and trust one may expect of a "fellow owner". This isn't your fault, but you will suffer some loss of trust in the aftermath.

In general, I am cautious about products like this. Stuff that is advertised with specifically vague data, such as "as much as 17 percent improvement". This sets off an alarm in my head, percent of what? And, the "mileage in field testing". Can you imagine how long it took to collect all those 20,000,000 test miles, and in triple blind testing to boot? When did they start this testing, ten years ago?

Despite what this product does, or doesn't do, the whole ad campaign seems just another twist on "hit and run" panic-market peddeling. Perfectly timed with a national fuel supply/cost issue, and FFI is sweeping money off the floor in a scheme focused on people's worry. It opened yesterday and it will close tomorrow. No worry though, it will be back next week.

I like hard facts, and "percent" isn't a fact. It's a statistical average, and statistics bend any way you want to shape them. When I did my own testing of the SeaFoam stuff, I recorded (and reported here) a hard MPG improvement from 16.8 MPG to 21.1 MPG. This is fact, yes it works. But, it's not magically stretching more MPG, just cleaning out power-robbing junk in the fuel system and combustion chambers, and even L/M's "big red book" supports decarboning cylinders for improved performance.

One more thought, a slice of logic...If I were Citgo, BP, or Shell, I would buy up this company and it's lab work, patents, testing whatever, and make this stuff an additive to my retail gasoline. Don't know if I would advertise it as being an additive, but I would add a dime per gallon and advertise that my customers get 1-3 more MPGs on my gasoline than the other brands...If it worked.

In fact, if it really does work, I wouldn't have to say much at all. My customers would be my advertisers. Today's retail cost of gasoline aside, the public would flock to my stations like herds of Buffalo across the plains, and pay a dime more per gallon to buy the extra MPG.

Think about it...For an additional dime per gallon at the pump (1.90 on a fill-up) and I get 3 more MPG per tank, I can buy 57 miles of travel per tank full. That's two days transportation to my office and back, and for a buck 90. But, FFI can't say that, all they offer is a random "X to X percent" improvement.
:bs:

Alas, if it were true, I don't think the product would be available as a pill, capful, mothball, whatever. One of the oil companies would own it, and sell it retail themselves. A dime a gallon more profit, times the number of retail pumps my company owns, is quite a chunk of change.

[blackf0rk]

Can you imagine how long it took to collect all those 20,000,000 testing miles, and in triple blind testing to boot? When did they start this testing, ten years ago?
31 actually.


It's a statistical average, and statistics bend any way you want to shape them.
I didn't know I was bending my statistics. I'm just reporting the numbers.


When I did my own testing of the SeaFoam stuff, I recorded (and reported here) a hard MPG improvement from 16.8 MPG to 21.1 MPG. This is fact, yes it works. But, it's not magically stretching more MPG, just cleaning out power-robbing junk in the fuel system and combustion chambers
Your MPGs went to 21.1, but they really didn't? So, becuase the product worked, but it didn't do it magically, it didn't really work?

[magindat]

Actually that would be fine with me. Like I said, a controlled test with data. People do want fact sheets, graphs, and data, that is proof.

Asking for an independent witness is nothing out of the ordinary either, all good tests are done by unbiased independent people. Maybe you are that person. Still nothing odd there, independent tests are done all the time.

If you've recorded results, can you post the data then?

Dudes,
Blackfork is not on trial here. He has no affiliation. He's just throwing us his personal experiences. If you want independent tests and all that crap, see the company. Proving stuff to us or anyone else is not blackfork's responsibility. Get off his arse.
Rich

That said.
Blackfork, I am curious about longer term sustained improvements. I take you at your word that is has worked for you so far. Please let us know for how long it has been used and with what general style of driving and general types of roads.

I appreciate the info from everyone here.
Thanx

[magindat]

Yea, no kidding. I test this on my vehicles, get great numbers, share if with you, and I have people burning me for it.

I expected a little skeptisism, but c'mon, some of what you guys are saying is borderline hate. Gimme a break.

Last time I share anything.

Nature of the beast, bro.
There are still some of us listening. We'll decide for ourselves without beating anyone up. Thanx 4 the tip.
Rich

[blackf0rk]

I am curious about longer term sustained improvements.
So far the Murano is holding steady at 20.4. As I said, I will post my experiences with the Marauder and Cavalier when conlcusive numbers show.

I also have some other friends trying it out - I'll post their numbers if they remember to record them :)

[Mike M]

Let me save everyone some typing here. Putting an over the counter additive in your tank will do nothing to increase fuel mileage. To think anything else shows you do not know how engines work.
Snake oils have been around since I started reading car magazines back in the 60's and they get more prevalent as gas prices go up. You will always come across people who swear their mileage went up and I truly do believe that they believe it but it is not real. When you want to believe something your brain will rationalize it. As far as money back guarantees go...who cares? They mean nothing.
Let’s just say I decide to buy a product for $9.99 with $6.95 shipping and handling. The company gets my $16.94 (9.99+6.95) they put it in the bank and collect interest while I wait 3-4 weeks for them to send my bogus product. I use it for 30+ days (they still are making interest) and I decide the product doesn't work (hair growth-fuel mileage-little doggy steps for my bed-vitamins for my $^&*-whatever) and I now have to contact the company and get an RMA# and I have to pay to ship it back for a added cost of about $5.00 to get my $9.99 back. Wow what a great guarantee! Also I would guess that about 75% of the people will not bother to send it back and 25% would rather convince themselves that it did work just to settle it in their mind.
The product is very good at making money for time until enough new people filter through life to start it all over again.
I have watched this cycle enough times to be very sure it’s a bunch of $%#^!

[blackf0rk]

Let me save everyone some typing here.
Thanks Mike. Thank you for saving us all from typing, with your endless superior knowledge above our own. What would we ever do, how could we ever function, without Mike Mielnicki who knows everything there is to know about everything, including these MPG-Caps with he's tested himself! Thank you Mike, our savior.


Putting an over the counter additive in your tank will do nothing to increase fuel mileage.
Its a shame you don't know how to read what I typed though :(

[Mike M]

I appreciate you stepping up and saying that.

[SergntMac]

Your MPGs went to 21.1, but they really didn't? So, becuase the product worked, but it didn't do it magically, it didn't really work? Now you are just being an azz about it all. Remember, you opened the topic, not us.

Considering that SaeFoam is a legitimate fuel system cleaner available at auto parts stores everywhere, I tested it. Yes, my MPG improved, but not by stretching native octane, or, coating cylinder walls with some sort of "catalyst". It cleaned out the sludge and carbon of the fuel and combustion system on a 70K plus mileage Marauder, and restored efficiency to a high mileage combustion process, thus improving MPG as well. SeaFoam is exactly what FFI (and you) say this MPG-CAP is not, and I can't (in my uneducated ways) believe it works in the manner the sales pitch implies.

BTW, learn something about stats in sales pitches.

Thanks for your attention in reply, see ya...

[blackf0rk]

Sarge, it's not that i'm trying...it's how I read it. I still don't know why adding sea foam and MPGs going up is a bad thing. At least, that's how you explain it. If you put sea foam in, and it increases your MPGs, isn't that good? I know you didn't say it was bad, but you make it sound like it. Like, you can explain the process that SeaFoam takes on your engine to improve MPGs (which you said it does), but the MPGs that are gained don't count because SeaFoam doesn't increase octane?

If that's true, isn't that kind of silly? Who cares how SeaFoam obtains the higher MPGs, so long as SeaFoam's cost doesn't outweigh the benefits. Right?

In regards to your story, I'm not trying to be like the majority here. I'm trying to understand what you're saying. The way you're explaining it doesn't make sense to me.

[wchain]

Why do I sense a version of the Pyramid scheme after reading this.
This is direct from their website.....

http://www.myffi.biz/images/CompPlan_html_fb56acd.png

Blackf0rk, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm poking fun at this thread. If it works for you, great!

[Bluerauder]

...the only thing they left out was: "too good to be true"...
The old adage says that "If it seems to good to be true. It probably is !!! " :rolleyes:

[kj31067]

blackfork
i just hope you have just your own stash and you arent into this too deep financially because i think these are going to be a hard sell. what i see in writing here went on in my workplace and i m sure goes on
all over on a daily basis. lots of doubt.........

[blackf0rk]

The old adage says that "If it seems to good to be true. It probably is !!! " :rolleyes:
Thanks, we've covered this already.

[blackf0rk]

blackfork
i just hope you have just your own stash and you arent into this too deep financially because i think these are going to be a hard sell. what i see in writing here went on in my workplace and i m sure goes on
all over on a daily basis. lots of doubt.........
I haven't paid anything; not even for the caps. We got them from a distributer and we're trying them out. So far, we like them.

[cyclone03]

Let me save everyone some typing here. product doesn't work (---little doggy steps for my bed---)I have watched this cycle enough times to be very sure it’s a bunch of $%#^!


Hey hold on here!!!!Mike,the little doggy steps work fine,2 of our three chihuahua's can attested to that!
You can bag on other products all you want but you know nothing about little doggy steps for the bed!!!
Just back off the little doggy steps ok.
I can't believe how people who know nothing about a product will just jump right in and start bashing it,unbelievable....:mad:


Note my sig.....

[kj31067]

I haven't paid anything; not even for the caps. We got them from a distributer and we're trying them out. So far, we like them.



just be carefull and good luck.....

[ctrcbob]

Mouse Milk!

[STLR FN]

This is direct from their website.....

http://www.myffi.biz/images/CompPlan_html_fb56acd.png

Blackf0rk, I'm not trying to be rude. I'm poking fun at this thread. If it works for you, great!Using the above fig from their site proves my point as this being a version of the pyramid scheme. You can call it what you want IBO's, multi-level marketing or whatever but if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck.... Jourdan I wish you well in your endevour with this.

[Breadfan]

FWIW, I'm not here to bash anyone, Jourdan I hope you understand that, I certainly have no problem with you. Anyone who has read my posts knows I don't subscribe to too much in the way of politics, or bashing. I try to avoid it in forums situations, I come here for fun, not for griping. But, at times I cannot ignore my instincts.

Before I get accused to coming in here and bashing someone trying to help the community, let's reread the thread. It starts out fine, but let's see also that it sounds a bit like a salespitch as it goes on. Mix that in with the suspicious nature of the FFI company, and it's enough to catch ones attention and ask them to call on the facts.

And that's what I did. I did not bash anyone, I simply stated that it didn't feel right and before I could accept this product I wanted facts from controlled tests that did not come from FFI. And after a few more posts, and citing FFI's claims, you did post some data that you yourself had gathered.

But seriously my main point is that with the dirt people have dug up on this company and their "creative" marketing plans I would be hesistant to put their product into my highly modified Mercury Marauder. I know I'm not the only one who's "BS Alarm" went off, and not for you, but for FFI.

Keep the data coming, and do what you can to keep it controlled testing, that will provide more accurate data. I'm an engineer, and open minded, I will listen to data, and I will examine data, but I will quickly shut off my ears and eyes when all I'm hearing is marketing hype or claims made by the product seller.

Jourdan - thanks for understanding that.

On that note, we can respect what Jourdan is doing bringing this product forward, but equally so we should respect what others are doing by presenting the other side, including FFI's activity that has apparently shown up on many other radar's as well. It's not to shoot someone down, it's to examine all aspects and make sure a product is SAFE as well as EFFECTIVE.

Thanks!

[blackf0rk]

Keep the data coming, and do what you can to keep it controlled testing, that will provide more accurate data. I'm an engineer, and open minded, I will listen to data, and I will examine data, but I will quickly shut off my ears and eyes when all I'm hearing is marketing hype or claims made by the product seller.

Jourdan - thanks for understanding that.

On that note, we can respect what Jourdan is doing bringing this product forward, but equally so we should respect what others are doing by presenting the other side, including FFI's activity that has apparently shown up on many other radar's as well. It's not to shoot someone down, it's to examine all aspects and make sure a product is SAFE as well as EFFECTIVE.

Thanks!
Breadfan, you've been most receptive and open minded about this. And, I am trying to bring substantial evidence to the table here. I know it's hard to wrap our heads around it (believe it) when it's not happening to your car. But it happened to me, and I thought I'd share my results.

Again, more evidence...coming soon :)

[ctrcbob]

Are you sure that company isn't owned by Glenn W. Turner, who started Koscot Interplanatray Inc. and Dare To Be Great back in the 60's. I know he went to jail, and that he had to sell his Florida Castle.

I just Googled "Glenn W. Turner" and it seems he is still around, selling all kinds of scam materials.

[KillJoy]

I hate to jump in on this, but this statement has me puzzled:


I haven't paid anything; not even for the caps. We got them from a distributer and we're trying them out. So far, we like them.

How did this come about?

KillJoy

[Mike M]

I thought you said in post #1 you bought the product.

[KillJoy]

I thought you said in post #1 you bought the product.

Actually, he did:


I don't know how to explain this without getting banned or what-not, but I couldn't NOT share this with you. In short, I've found a real product that is NOT a fuel additive, is NOT a detergent, and is NOT moth balls (or equivalent).

I've bought the product, I've tested it, and it works for me. I went from 17MPG to a consistent 20.4MPG - that's a 17% increase! And of course, the cost of the product does not outweigh the benefits (which would be pointless).

Gas prices are murder, and they're getting worse. Please PM me if you're interested in finding out more.


MODs/Admin(s):
If this post is somewhere outside the realms of what can be posted, please accept my apology. I am not here to spam; just here to share my results and excitment!

Ok....what gives? Did you get it for free, or pay for it?

KillJoy

[blackf0rk]

I bought the product intially, but have more caps from a distributor for testing. Sorry for the confusion.

[KillJoy]

Ok.....did a quick search on GOOGLE for "myffi", and I cam up with this website:

https://backoffice.myffi.biz/signup.asp?siteurl=kd

If you read the Fuel Freedom International Marketing and Compensation Plan (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('http://www.myffi.biz/compplan.htm',500,600,1);), this IS a Pyramid Marketing program.

Is the "poweryourpetro" in the URL in your signature YOUR link to their website, so profits are funnelled YOUR way?

Reading the plan I listed above makes this whole thread YOU started feel like a SALES PITCH. Theis reaks of AMWAY.

KillJoy

[cyclopsram]

ya remember the teflon stuff in the STP type oil additive...??? It formed a lump in the oil pan and if you were lucky it did not block the oil pickup tube...same type ad... micro particles low friction etc... Stick with your Motorcraft Semi synthetic recommeded oil and don't add any stuff to your gas tank... probably clog your fuel filter too...RAM (one million miles on 4.6 engines without a failure)

[Blackened300a]

Yes - and I can prove it. I bought a simple, easy to use device and my mileage doubled! In fact, no matter how much I drive my car around, I can't seem to use up the gas in the tank! It's a simple, easy to obtain device that anybody anywhere can buy, and there's no FTC or other complaints about its efficacy. You can get it anywhere, although you have to look for a store in your neighborhood. In fact, I am so positive it will work for you, that I will give my personal guarantee that, if used correctly, you will experience the same mileage increases I did.

Here's what I used: click (http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/showimage.php?i=3716&c=3)

I'm amazed no one thought of it before.

I dont know why nobody commented on this joke. I found it hysterical.


My tune is a bit too radical to risk putting something in my tank that
may lower octane levels.
I dont like taking risk's with someone's backyard miracle pill.

Reminds me of old western shows where they have the man selling a miracle cure for sickness in a bottle for only 5 cents.

[Mike M]

I dont know why nobody commented on this joke. I found it hysterical.


My tune is a bit too radical to risk putting something in my tank that
may lower octane levels.
I dont like taking risk's with someone's backyard miracle pill.

Reminds me of old western shows where they have the man selling a miracle cure for sickness in a bottle for only 5 cents.

It was funny!!!

[MENINBLK]

I asked Jourdan for the info and I gave him my comments in a PM.
I don't know why you babies can't do the same...

Why don't you all just put his head in a guillotine and pull the rope ?

Jourdan, if it works for you, more power to you.
We all have the option of TRYING it.
If we forgoe this option, then we should just carry on as usual.

[KillJoy]

I asked Jourdan for the info and I gave him my comments in a PM.
I don't know why you babies can't do the same...

Why don't you all just put his head in a guillotine and pull the rope ?

Jourdan, if it works for you, more power to you.
We all have the option of TRYING it.
If we forgoe this option, then we should just carry on as usual.

I have no problem w/ this. However, after what I found, on the site listed, led me to believe HE was involved in making $$$ from this post.

If that is the case.....I'll be first in line to pull that rope ;)

KillJoy

[blackf0rk]

Haven't made a dime. But if things keep go ing the way they're going, I'll be spending my $2/tank :D Or unless I find something else, in either case I'll share my results.

[GreekGod]

I have been designing a carburetor that gets 90 miles per gallon. It is so good it could replace EFI!

I was getting close to building a working model when they showed up. It turns out, the Department of Homeland Security (DOHS) had been scanning my brain while I was sleeping. They have developed a powerful new scanner that can penetrate the aluminum foil helmet I wear while sleeping!

I was warned that Big Oil and General Motors are tied in with DOHS and George Bush and I would "disappear" if I pursued my invention. They don't want everyone to get good mileage and reduce profits. They said my television contains a microphone and if they catch me talking to anyone...OH NO! They are back! Damn internet, I better make a break for it...

[blackf0rk]

I have been designing a carburetor that gets 90 miles per gallon. It is so good it could replace EFI!

I was getting close to building a working model when they showed up. It turns out, the Department of Homeland Security (DOHS) had been scanning my brain while I was sleeping. They have developed a powerful new scanner that can penetrate the aluminum foil helmet I wear while sleeping!

I was warned that Big Oil and General Motors are tied in with DOHS and George Bush and I would "disappear" if I pursued my invention. They don't want everyone to get good mileage and reduce profits. They said my television contains a microphone and if they catch me talking to anyone...OH NO! They are back! Damn internet, I better make a break for it...
LOL:stupid:

[blackf0rk]

Ok, I have some more stats for you all (cover your eyes SergntMac :P):

The Murano was filled up again yesterday and 1 cap added. Today after some city driving, the MPGs went up to 23. So from a consistent 17, to 23. I'll report if it holds there. If my math is right, that's a 26.08% increase over regular MPGs.

Here's some more info about FFI. Take it for what it's worth:

FFI isn't the company that makes the cap. They're just a mutli-level networking marketing company. The actual company that makes the cap holds the patent and has made it since 1975 I believe and has even distributed it to NASA.

[GreekGod]

Our Marauders have an excellent section in the owners manual on checking fuel mileage. The complexity of the proceedure might surprise many.

[Zack]

This thread is dumb

[blackf0rk]

This thread is dumb
http://www.enspiar.com/assinthebox.gif

[MM03MOK]

http://www.enspiar.com/assinthebox.gif
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[KillJoy]

http://www.enspiar.com/assinthebox.gif

OMG!!! ROFLMAO!!!!! :rofl: :laugh: Now THAT is funny as hell!

KillJoy

[Haggis]

http://www.enspiar.com/assinthebox.gif
...:popcorn:...

[Zack]

Thats fine, this thread is still dumb.

[blackf0rk]

Thats fine, this thread is still dumb.
Zack, everytime you post, you increase the dumb factor by +2. Right now it's at +4. Stop it.

Onward...

Aside from the baby's crying and dumb stuff flying around, did anyone see my second post on this page? Another 3 MPG increase. So far that's 6 MPGs gained - all in city driving.

Hmm, for every factor of dumb (+2) that Zack makes here I increase +3 on MPG. Maybe you should post more Zack.

Nah

[Breadfan]

Just out of curiousity, who is the Power Your Petro distributor. I'm curious if one were to order the product how is it shipped, from the Power Your Petro distributor or from FFI themselves?

This is a valid question, it is apparent that Power Your Petro is a distributor for FFI. Ordering must be done at the poweryourpetro subdomain URL and cannot be done from the main www.myffi.biz (http://www.myffi.biz) site.

I'm curious who the Power Your Petro distributor is, especially if they are the ones who would ship the product. This is important info for anyone interested in ordering the caps, mainly if the distributor is responsible for shipping the items.

[blackf0rk]

Power Your Petro doesn't ship the product. The distributer that gave us ours says when you order from the web, the caps come straight from the manufacturer. In fact, I don't think they come from FFI, since FFI is just the marketing and managing company for the company that makes the caps.

The only time you would get caps from a distributor is like in our case...when you have direct contact with them, OR if you ask them to send you the pills.

MURANO UPDATE!
As per last night, the murano has officially gone up to 26 MPG! We're now at a 34% increase, something that "driving conditions" and normal "weather fluctuations" don't produce!! We attribute our slow rising numbers due to the fact that we didn't follow the manufacturer's instructions about putting 2 caps in for the first two fillups (we only have used 1 per fillup for all fillups).

[1stMerc]

Nature of the beast, bro.
There are still some of us listening. We'll decide for ourselves without beating anyone up. Thanx 4 the tip.
Rich

All products go through this before proven to work or not. Like Mac said, just bad timing, with the price of gas fluctuating the way is now everyone is skeptical of a "new or realatively new" product that comes to market tauting increased performance or miles per gallon increase. Especially if it's rather cheap and easy to use.

Fork, you keep plugging and keep us posted, truth will come out in the end.

Remember there were people that laughed or dimissed the automobile when it first came into being. Now look where we are. Talking about products like this, all because someone stuck with a dream.

[KillJoy]

blackf0rk -

I am as skeptical as anyone here. I have an '02 Grand AM that is our Daily Driver. We put right around 2000 miles on it per month, and AVERAGE 250 miles per tank.

If you would like to send me 6 gas tanks (roughly one month) worth of this product, I will test it out.

That will give everyone an unbiased view of it's effectiveness. And I will post what actually occurs.....good or bad...

KillJoy

[blackf0rk]

If you would like to send me 6 gas tanks (roughly one month) worth of this product, I will test it out.
I will see if I can get you 8 pills (need two pills for the first two fillups) without cost. I'll PM if I can acquire them. Deal?

[KillJoy]

That works. I'll start keeping better track of our milage useage w/ this fillup.

KillJoy

[TooManyFords]

DON'T DO IT!

Friends don't let friends put snake-oil in their tanks!

:eek:

John

[TooManyFords]

As per last night, the murano has officially gone up to 26 MPG! We're now at a 34% increase, something that "driving conditions" and normal "weather fluctuations" don't produce!! We attribute our slow rising numbers due to the fact that we didn't follow the manufacturer's instructions about putting 2 caps in for the first two fillups (we only have used 1 per fillup for all fillups).

All I want to know is if those tabs come with the little tube or the the big pump jar...

http://john.frieltek.com/toomanyfords/marauder/lube.jpg

:laugh:

Sorry... Couldn't resist. Nothing personal. Really...

John

[blackf0rk]

DON'T DO IT!

Friends don't let friends put snake-oil in their tanks!

:eek:

John
How is a 34% increase in MPG snake oil? Under normal MPGs even with regular weather ups & downs, and driving fluctuations (highway/city) you still can't get that %

[Mike M]

The lack of general knowledge on this thread is really amazing. I understand everyone is not an engineer or mechanic but there should still be some resemblance of logic here. I own a 2005 Hemi Durango that is driven extremely consistently week after week. My wife drives it Monday-Thursday 12 miles to work and 12 miles back home. There is no traffic to or from work at the hours she commutes. The temperature is extremely consistent here in Arizona (HOT and DRY) and we use the same gas station down the block. I check her mileage once a week when I fill up and it will range from 14.7 to 17.2 MPG. I have done this since we bought it from the dealer new last August. That is about a 20% difference with doing nothing different. Chrysler just got done spending MILLIONS of dollars to develop the M.D.S. system (Multiple Displacement System and G.M. has developed a similar system) for the new model Hemi Durango that could increase the MPG in the 20% range. To think that you could buy some pills to put in your fuel tank to increase your mileage 20-30+% is just plain stupid-dumb-crazy and uninformed.
Ask yourself why would coating your combustion chamber make it burn fuel more efficiently??? Whet the Hell does that mean? Ask yourself what the HELL does that mean???? If I coat my combustion chamber it will make it more efficient? The phrase was designed for a salesperson talking to a potential buyer that has no knowledge on how an engine works. If it was true I should be able to “coat” my oven and bake cookies faster and use less gas in my oven because it is coated????? What the HELL does that mean????
I am sure you think you gained a 34% increase in MPG but you didn't...trust me you didn't, it's called the Placebo effect. Anytime a human is involved with interpreting data, the placebo effect kicks in without using controls.
I know you want to believe the product works so you can sell it to family and friends to feel good about it but please stop trying it here. It actually went from being kind of funny to just being insulting at this point.
I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I am sure you won’t like reading this post but I think I had to put into words what I was thinking. If you hate me, that’s cool, I really don’t mean you any ill will.

[SergntMac]

How is a 34% increase in MPG snake oil? Under normal MPGs even with regular weather ups & downs, and driving fluctuations (highway/city) you still can't get that % Dude...I just re-read this thread from top to bottom, and I think you have crossed over into vendor territory.

You have a personal interest in the success of this product, and that's the "line in the sand" members should not cross. It may mean a "cash in your pocket" end result (as is the case for other vendors), maybe not. Nonetheless, it's obviously something of value to you, and you are exploiting your experience to maximize the feature of this product to us, just to feed it.

This doesn't happen when someone says "hey guys, XXX Performance.com can tune our Marauders", nor does it apply when I post "SeaFoam works, and works to...". You are now willing to distribute your product (no money involved) among us here, and this makes you a vendor.

(Before this comes up, "Zack and Mac" control arms are exclusive to Marauder automobiles and members here, and Logan has granted permission to allow the marketing of this mod among us, without vendor status, despite the exchange of money between members. It is a fine line to watch.)

OTOH...You are a business man now, and selling a product that can benefit any vehicle on the road. Even your personal test vehicle is not a Marauder, right? So, you are now a vendor among us. Pay your vendor fee, K? Or, S.T.F.U.

Your comments in other threads have been noted, you are also bordering on spam.
The lack of general knowledge on this thread is really amazing. I understand everyone is not an engineer or mechanic but there should still be some resemblance of logic here. I own a 2005 Hemi Durango that is driven extremely consistently week after week. My wife drives it Monday-Thursday 12 miles to work and 12 miles back home. There is no traffic to or from work at the hours she commutes. The temperature is extremely consistent here in Arizona (HOT and DRY) and we use the same gas station down the block. I check her mileage once a week when I fill up and it will range from 14.7 to 17.2 MPG. I have done this since we bought it from the dealer new last August. That is about a 20% difference with doing nothing different. Chrysler just got done spending MILLIONS of dollars to develop the M.D.S. system (Multiple Displacement System and G.M. has developed a similar system) for the new model Hemi Durango that could increase the MPG in the 20% range. To think that you could buy some pills to put in your fuel tank to increase your mileage 20-30+% is just plain stupid-dumb-crazy and uninformed.
Ask yourself why would coating your combustion chamber make it burn fuel more efficiently??? Whet the Hell does that mean? Ask yourself what the HELL does that mean???? If I coat my combustion chamber it will make it more efficient? The phrase was designed for a salesperson talking to a potential buyer that has no knowledge on how an engine works. If it was true I should be able to “coat” my oven and bake cookies faster and use less gas in my oven because it is coated????? What the HELL does that mean????
I am sure you think you gained a 34% increase in MPG but you didn't...trust me you didn't, it's called the Placebo effect. Anytime a human is involved with interpreting data, the placebo effect kicks in without using controls.
I know you want to believe the product works so you can sell it to family and friends to feel good about it but please stop trying it here. It actually went from being kind of funny to just being insulting at this point.
I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I am sure you won’t like reading this post but I think I had to put into words what I was thinking. If you hate me, that’s cool, I really don’t mean you any ill will. Man-of-man, I'm sorry to quote the whole post, Mike, but I agree with you 110 percent and the only reason I quoted your entire post, is my concern that you would change your mind later, and remove your wisdom from our presence. What's said spontaneously is usually most honest, cops work with spontaneous remarks every day.

Thank you for your input.

[blackf0rk]

I own a 2005 Hemi Durango that is driven extremely consistently week after week. My wife drives it Monday-Thursday 12 miles to work and 12 miles back home. There is no traffic to or from work at the hours she commutes. The temperature is extremely consistent here in Arizona (HOT and DRY) and we use the same gas station down the block. I check her mileage once a week when I fill up and it will range from 14.7 to 17.2 MPG.
Driving something consistantly means at a minimum having the same person driving the car at least. Also, if you range that much in your MPGs, you're not driving it consistantly, at least to me anyways. But, that's besides the point.


To think that you could buy some pills to put in your fuel tank to increase your mileage 20-30+% is just plain stupid-dumb-crazy and uninformed. Ask yourself why would coating your combustion chamber make it burn fuel more efficiently???
Depends on what you coat it with. The coating 'causes a catalytic process. Any other coating I would imagine, would do just as you suggest, nothing.


If it was true I should be able to “coat” my oven and bake cookies faster and use less gas in my oven because it is coated?????
That's not a bad idea. You should invent something like that. But if you did, I wouldn't beleive you. Also, just because you make an example that "works" doesn't make it true ;)


I am sure you think you gained a 34% increase in MPG but you didn't...trust me you didn't, it's called the Placebo effect. Anytime a human is involved with interpreting data, the placebo effect kicks in without using controls.
You need to look at it like this: Mileage on the vehicle was being tracked prior to talking the pill. That doesn't mean that it was checked once. It was tracked several weeks/fill-ups prior to testing. The MPGs were in the 17s (17.0 to 17.9). Ok? You're still with me right?

Now we add the cap. Over the next couple of weeks, maintaining the same driving, same person, and style, the MPG have consistantly gone UP. Nothing has changed.

Here's an example with your Durango. You say you got 14.7 to 17.2 (and who even knows if those numbes are true/accurate), and when you take the pill you now get 23.7 to 26.2 - consistantly. How would you explain that?

The same is going on with our test vehicle. We have a range of numbers (17.0 to 17.9) prior to our tests, we're now exceeding those MPG numbers by +9 MPGs. Where in the heck is that a placebo?

The placebo effect doesn't work in this situation because we're not "loading" the numbers, and we're not trying to force the numbers in any direction. We want to test and prove these pills, right or wrong, just as much as the next guy.


...but please stop trying it here. It actually went from being kind of funny to just being insulting at this point.
You're the one who keeps coming in here and posting your rediculousness. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread and read it. That's like me telling you do leave this forum and not post here because of how much of an idiot you are. Does that make sense? No. Honestly, I've heard things come out of a 3 year old's mouth that rival your logic.

You sit here, and you spew the most unintelligent and thick logic, all while not even testing yourself.

If you were so smart, you'd prove me wrong and test it yourself. But all you do is sit there and whine about how smart of an engineer you are and how all us here non-engineers couldn't possibly have the smarts to test anything.

Way to go Mike, you rock..you rock HARD!

[cyclone03]

The lack of general knowledge on this thread is really amazing. I understand everyone is not an engineer or mechanic but there should still be some resemblance of logic here. I own a 2005 Hemi Durango that is driven extremely consistently week after week. My wife drives it Monday-Thursday 12 miles to work and 12 miles back home. There is no traffic to or from work at the hours she commutes. The temperature is extremely consistent here in Arizona (HOT and DRY) and we use the same gas station down the block. I check her mileage once a week when I fill up and it will range from 14.7 to 17.2 MPG. I have done this since we bought it from the dealer new last August. That is about a 20% difference with doing nothing different. Chrysler just got done spending MILLIONS of dollars to develop the M.D.S. system (Multiple Displacement System and G.M. has developed a similar system) for the new model Hemi Durango that could increase the MPG in the 20% range. To think that you could buy some pills to put in your fuel tank to increase your mileage 20-30+% is just plain stupid-dumb-crazy and uninformed.
Ask yourself why would coating your combustion chamber make it burn fuel more efficiently??? Whet the Hell does that mean? Ask yourself what the HELL does that mean???? If I coat my combustion chamber it will make it more efficient? The phrase was designed for a salesperson talking to a potential buyer that has no knowledge on how an engine works. If it was true I should be able to “coat” my oven and bake cookies faster and use less gas in my oven because it is coated????? What the HELL does that mean????
I am sure you think you gained a 34% increase in MPG but you didn't...trust me you didn't, it's called the Placebo effect. Anytime a human is involved with interpreting data, the placebo effect kicks in without using controls.
I know you want to believe the product works so you can sell it to family and friends to feel good about it but please stop trying it here. It actually went from being kind of funny to just being insulting at this point.
I’m sure you’re a nice guy and I am sure you won’t like reading this post but I think I had to put into words what I was thinking. If you hate me, that’s cool, I really don’t mean you any ill will.


Mike I too wanted to quote your post too.
I will also offer a possible explaination for the mileage shift...Drive thru windows.

It doesn't take long to burn 1 MPG of fuel off waiting in the drive thru at Starbucks.

For about the last 2 years security jumped at the Air force base I work on,this added about 10-20 minutes to my morning commute,all waiting in line.I lost a solid 4mpg from 18ish to 14ish and one 13.8(my worst milage ever!)Idling KILLS milage!

BTW thanks for not slamming Doggie Bed Steps anymore.

[GreekGod]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">If it was true I should be able to “coat” my oven and bake cookies faster and use less gas in my oven because it is coated????? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
When I want my cookies, I want them right now! Hot and NOW. Damn the DOHS, George Bush, Big Oil and General Motors.

I'm going to look into this idea.

[MM03MOK]

You have a personal interest in the success of this product, and that's the "line in the sand" members should not cross. It may mean a "cash in your pocket" end result (as is the case for other vendors), maybe not. Nonetheless, it's obviously something of value to you, and you are exploiting your experience to maximize the feature of this product to us, just to feed it.
.
.

OTOH...You are a business man now, and selling a product that can benefit any vehicle on the road. Even your personal test vehicle is not a Marauder, right? So, you are now a vendor among us. Pay your vendor fee, K? Or, S.T.F.U.







How To Get Started...

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 577px; HEIGHT: 250px" cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=2 border=3><TBODY><TR><TD>
1. Call in and listen to a "Live" overview call, or listen
to our 12 Min Pre-Recorded Call at 512-703-8072

2. Click Here (http://www.makecashongas.myffi.biz/) to get signed up

3. Pick a website name. Ex: (Your Name).myffi.biz

4. Choose a product package - Premium or
Premium Value Pkg is your best choice






</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


You wouldn't believe all the websites I came up with as (Your Name)myffi.biz.

Another website: http://forums.forbes.com/forbes/board/message?board.id=fdcbiz&message.id=1260



5 ways to earn money:
1. You can sell the MPG-CAP™ with profit. Others can buy through your web page.
2. Earn money through the binary system.
3. Leadership matching bonuses.
4. Autoship bonuses.
5. Fast start bonus for every Premium Value Package.


I'm calling this one. If Jourdan wants to pursue this discussion here, he needs to become a vendor. I adjusted my post #2 by adding "or."


As long as you're not a sales agent for the product or that competes with a supporting vendor's product, please feel free to share your find openly!

[SergntMac]

But if you did, I wouldn't beleive you. Also, just because you make an example that "works" doesn't make it true ;) What do you think we have been telling you...

[blackf0rk]

Where did I ever say I was a distributor?

[Donny Carlson]

approves of this product or service...

http://www.jasonbentley.org/blog/img/enzyte1.jpg

[STLR FN]

approves of this product or service...

http://www.jasonbentley.org/blog/img/enzyte1.jpg

If Bob take one of these pills, will he see another 17-34% swelling in pride? :lol:

[blackf0rk]

OMG, lol.

Anyways. I'm sick of all the stupidity here. It's apparant people could care less, and don't feel like testing it for themselves; just flame me. Therefore, I will not be reporting my stats on here any more. For thoe of you who do care, you can read my blog about it as I update the numbers (no matter what the results are):

http://mpgcaps.blogspot.com/

cya

[KillJoy]

OMG, lol.

Anyways. I'm sick of all the stupidity here. It's apparant people could care less, and don't feel like testing it for themselves; just flame me. Therefore, I will not be reporting my stats on here any more. For thoe of you who do care, you can read my blog about it as I update the numbers (no matter what the results are):

http://mpgcaps.blogspot.com/

cya

Awaiting PM for TEST PILLS.

KillJoy

[Mike M]

Thank God! Go in peace!!!!

[Breadfan]

Power Your Petro doesn't ship the product. The distributer that gave us ours says when you order from the web, the caps come straight from the manufacturer. In fact, I don't think they come from FFI, since FFI is just the marketing and managing company for the company that makes the caps.
Who then, is the Power Your Petro distributor if I may ask? Who is the person I would contact with a direct question about my order?

[TooManyFords]

I bet it was the "lube"...

:D

John

[cyclone03]

Don't go away yet!
We haven't talked about Mikes hate for little doggy bed steps!
Come on Mike spill it,what problem do you have for such a fine product that tens of thousands of verticaly challenged dogs come to rely on everyday?

If your legs where only 4 inchs long, and you had no arms, you would love them too.

[Mike M]

When I was very young, a large crate of Doggy Steps had its way with me. I will never forget it. It is still very painful.

[chuckled]

I would never put a pill in my MM's fuel tank and I would never let a canine type dog in my house much less on my bed. Do you know what that dog just licked?

[cyclone03]

I would never put a pill in my MM's fuel tank and I would never let a canine type dog in my house much less on my bed. Do you know what that dog just licked?
No canine type dog in the house?
What kind of dogs do you allow in the house,and do you tend to sleep with them?:rolleyes:

[cyclone03]

When I was very young, a large crate of Doggy Steps had its way with me. I will never forget it. It is still very painful.


I'm sorry about this,the new Doggy steps are much better behaved.
Maybe you where taunting the crate and it was just defending itself?
Did you try giving it a Tank Pill to calm it down?

[Haggis]

I would never put a pill in my MM's fuel tank and I would never let a canine type dog in my house much less on my bed. Do you know what that dog just licked?
A......Its weewee.

[RF Overlord]

to quote my good friend George Carlin:

"Why does a dog lick his b-lls? Because he CAN! Hell, if I could do that I'd never leave the house!"

[Bluerauder]

Do you know what that dog just licked?
You're just jealous !!! :rofl:

[TheDealer]

There is only one way to prove anything. It must be a strictly controlled test. You have to use a 1 gallon gas tank. Drive the exact same road with the exact same temp, barometer and everything the same. The driver has to drive exactly the same way. The way it's been done with a TANK of gas means nothing. Your driving conditions are never the same. I can make it home in 5 minutes if I don't hit anyred lights or 7minutes if i do. What does this do for gas mileage??? The car is runnign for 2 extra minutes. You must drive on a highway non stop at the exact same speed. You switch over to a one gallon gas tank. When the car runs out of gas you see how far it went. Do it again with the additive. What is the diffence?? This is the only way to prove it works. Just my .02

[duhtroll]

Of course, you can't do this test with a MM or lots of other engines now cuz running 'em dry is not good. Soooo, just build a custom setup for this and let us know how it goes.

Also, you have to have the exact same temp, humidity, and wind resistance.

Better rent a wind tunnel, too. Of course, then there's the control group. Gotta have a dupli-custom for that one *without* the additive.

If my calculations are correct, I figger for about $1.6 million you can let us know if yer saving a few pennies per gallon.

:lol:




There is only one way to prove anything. It must be a strictly controlled test. You have to use a 1 gallon gas tank. Drive the exact same road with the exact same temp, barometer and everything the same. The driver has to drive exactly the same way. The way it's been done with a TANK of gas means nothing. Your driving conditions are never the same. I can make it home in 5 minutes if I don't hit anyred lights or 7minutes if i do. What does this do for gas mileage??? The car is runnign for 2 extra minutes. You must drive on a highway non stop at the exact same speed. You switch over to a one gallon gas tank. When the car runs out of gas you see how far it went. Do it again with the additive. What is the diffence?? This is the only way to prove it works. Just my .02

[SergntMac]

The last report I read stated that MPG was now +9 miles per gallon. Sorry, this is simply unbelieveable at half that. If this were true, it would be a national news event.

Even an informal and less controlled field test should shead some light on possibilities. Run the car (or any car) on a dyno, say at a cruise speed of 65 MPH, OD on. No wind resistance, inclines, coasting, and with the cruise control on, no driver interferrence. One half-throttle acceleration to get to speed, and go have a beer, you're just running the machinery at a controlled pace until it burns up a gallon of fuel. Like cruising the highway, eh?

Drain the fuel system dry, and test one gallon of non-treated gasoline as a base line. Take a mileage report from the odo, and refill and test again with one gallon of treated gasoline. If this product is half of what it's claimed to be, there should be something to talk about without the wisecracks and taunting.

No worry, -A. Cars run out of gas everyday with no damage to the engine, because sensors in system will know when the tank runs dry and shut everything off. Engines grenade when the fuel supply is suddenly cut off at 6000+ RPM, not 2500.

I could set this up, but who's going to pay for it? I'm not curious enough to cough up the dyno fees on my own. An additive that can add 2-4 MPG is a winner in my book, who wants to chip in and learn the truth?

[GreekGod]

quote:

"Sorry, this is simply unbelieveable at half that. If this were true, it would be a national news event"

Simply put, that is the truth.

[Mike M]

Wouldn't that all be too much trouble? Dynos…measuring…draining…etc.
Why not just make crazy claims and expect people on this board to believe it?
Oh wait…that was already tried…never mind, lets try the dyno.

[Breadfan]

The last report I read stated that MPG was now +9 miles per gallon. Sorry, this is simply unbelieveable at half that. If this were true, it would be a national news event.
Also, was this over three tanks of gas? It sounded like it was, and the reports came in over only a few days. In that case I guess I shouldn't complain about my commute.

Just curious though, ideally the tests would be complete tankfulls.

[duhtroll]

A complete tankful doesn't ever really equal a complete tankful, unless you go to the same pump at the same station at the same temperature and hopefully the pressure is the same so it shuts off at exactly the same time. Be sure to get the nozzle in the exact same spot for the shutoff sensor to work accurately, too.

Full tanks won't work for a comparison. Doing it a gallon at a time, as Mac said, is the only way to go.


Also, was this over three tanks of gas? It sounded like it was, and the reports came in over only a few days. In that case I guess I shouldn't complain about my commute.

Just curious though, ideally the tests would be complete tankfulls.

[texascorvette]

at three bucks a gallon, tires are cheaper than gas. I just add a few more pounds of air to improve my mileage.

[Mike M]

at three bucks a gallon, tires are cheaper than gas. I just add a few more pounds of air to improve my mileage.


Yep, less rolling resistance always helps.

[MM2004]

I believe we would all like to see our cars get 30 - 40 MPG. But the fact remains that we are hauling over 2 tons of automobile down the road. For what we are driving, these cars get damn good mileage, IMHO.

The only thing that goes in my gas tank is 92/93 octane. Nothing else.

Going to Cleveland, I was getting 22.28 MPG and am more than happy with the results.

I'll live with that.

Mike.