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michael ward
07-10-2006, 08:51 PM
I have an 04 dtr mm with 4r75w trans I replaced my trans fluid with amsoil synthetic trans fluid. when driving in traffic stop lights ect.. when i hit between 35 and 40 mph my trans shutters. sometimes really bad.. i know its the torque converter locking up. is this normal? any way to make this smoother at lock up..

RF Overlord
07-11-2006, 03:55 AM
michael:

No, it is most certainly not normal. A few more details. please...

Did the problem only start after you changed the fluid?
How many miles on the car?
What (if any) mods do you have?

fastblackmerc
07-11-2006, 04:02 AM
Is there enough fluid in the trans?

Marauderjack
07-11-2006, 04:11 AM
I have posted this before and it works EVERY time!!:beer:

Carefully pour one bottle of Ford Frction Modifier in the trans....BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO SPILL IT....IT REALLY STINKS!!!:eek:

It will fix the problem right now with NO ill effects!!:D

Most Ford dealers around here did this when the problem began showing up in ALL Panthers in the '90's since replacement TC's would do it as well.......I would suspect that the Amzoil doesn't have the additives Mercon V does and you have glazed your TC friction surfaces??:confused:

Try it...For about $5.00 you will be happy again!!:banana:

Marauderjack:burnout:

Zack
07-11-2006, 05:45 AM
Amsoil in the transmission is probably the cause.
Switch back to the factory stuff. This is the 3rd case ive heard of regarding amsoil

michael ward
07-11-2006, 08:54 AM
Amsoil in the transmission is probably the cause.
Switch back to the factory stuff. This is the 3rd case ive heard of regarding amsoilI thought the same thing so I set up a power flush for next monday going back to factory stuff.

Merc-O-matic
07-11-2006, 07:07 PM
You need to switch back to the FoMoCo Mercon tranny fluid.
Remember stock is best...and change every 30K!
I had the same problem in my 1997 Grand Marquis.

Gotta Love It!

RF Overlord
07-12-2006, 03:56 AM
Interesting. This is the first I've heard of AMSOIL ATF actually causing TCC shudder. Zack, do you have any more info on this?

michael ward, where are you getting the flush done? If not at a dealership, be sure the shop doesn't attempt to use generic Dexron III/Mercon and a bottle of "magic transmission fluid converter", even when they tell you they "do this all the time". Use Mercon V fluid ONLY.

Zack
07-12-2006, 05:24 AM
Interesting. This is the first I've heard of AMSOIL ATF actually causing TCC shudder. Zack, do you have any more info on this?

michael ward, where are you getting the flush done? If not at a dealership, be sure the shop doesn't attempt to use generic Dexron III/Mercon and a bottle of "magic transmission fluid converter", even when they tell you they "do this all the time". Use Mercon V fluid ONLY.

I built a guys car from pennsylvania who has me put it amsoil. It never drove right and shuddered.
He later removed the amsoil and all symptoms went away.
It is actually too slippery for the clutches in the trans.

michael ward
07-12-2006, 05:47 AM
Interesting. This is the first I've heard of AMSOIL ATF actually causing TCC shudder. Zack, do you have any more info on this?

michael ward, where are you getting the flush done? If not at a dealership, be sure the shop doesn't attempt to use generic Dexron III/Mercon and a bottle of "magic transmission fluid converter", even when they tell you they "do this all the time". Use Mercon V fluid ONLY.I'm going to have my tech do it at my ford dealer I have had the same tech work on my cars since 1996 they use the mercon v fluid.. thanks for all your info everyone... I hope shutter is gone after fluid change..

michael ward
07-17-2006, 11:15 AM
I'm going to have my tech do it at my ford dealer I have had the same tech work on my cars since 1996 they use the mercon v fluid.. thanks for all your info everyone... I hope shutter is gone after fluid change..I had my trans power flushed today with new filter and mercon v trans fluid put about 22miles on and it still shutters wtf!! has anyone else have a shutter problem??

Marauderjack
07-17-2006, 11:52 AM
I told you what to do and it WILL work and WILL NOT hurt a thing!!:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout:

RF Overlord
07-17-2006, 12:08 PM
If the AMSOIL ATF you previously had in there was in fact causing the problem, it may take up to a couple of hundred miles of driving to correct. If that doesn't do it, then I doubt you actually have the TCC shudder (not shutter) problem. Also, since the PCM has adaptive programming, try unhooking the battery negative terminal for about 10 minutes to erase it, now that you have the correct fluid. Don't panic if the car drives funny for a short time afterward, it will re-learn your driving style, idle speed, etc.

michael ward
07-17-2006, 01:36 PM
If the AMSOIL ATF you previously had in there was in fact causing the problem, it may take up to a couple of hundred miles of driving to correct. If that doesn't do it, then I doubt you actually have the TCC shudder (not shutter) problem. Also, since the PCM has adaptive programming, try unhooking the battery negative terminal for about 10 minutes to erase it, now that you have the correct fluid. Don't panic if the car drives funny for a short time afterward, it will re-learn your driving style, idle speed, etc.thanks I will drive it for a couple of hundred miles. I called the dealer when I got home . they told me the same thing.

michael ward
07-20-2006, 10:35 PM
I had my trans power flushed today with new filter and mercon v trans fluid put about 22miles on and it still shudders wtf!! has anyone else have a shudder problem??update I put 166 miles on and its much smother now .. still get a little jump between 25 and 40 mph... depending how i hit the gas pedal.... this was a very expensive mistake are trans are very temperamental when it comes to trans fulid mercon v only!!! stay away from synthetics.....

michael ward
07-20-2006, 10:42 PM
I told you what to do and it WILL work and WILL NOT hurt a thing!!:cool:

Marauderjack:burnout: guys at ford said they dont recommend for that trans:(

Marauderjack
07-21-2006, 03:34 AM
Well,

The guy that told me was a "Master Tech" at one of the largest Ford dealers in the country?? This was back when EVERY Ford had terrible converter shudder and they had NO REBUILT torque converters!!:mad2:

I have used it in all of my CV's (7) and as a precaution in my Marauder!!:beer:

The only down side is the stuff really stinks and if you spill a drop you will smell it for a week!!:argue:

What is does is dissolve the "Glaze" on the friction surfaces....exactly what it does in the rear end!!:bows:

Do as you wish but this works immediately and you may have to flush it several more times to fix it the way you are going now!!??:confused:

Thanks for finally responding to me......I was beginning to think my previous posts were invisable!!:rolleyes:

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack:burnout:

CRUZTAKER
07-21-2006, 06:45 PM
Amsoil in the transmission is probably the cause.
Switch back to the factory stuff. This is the 3rd case ive heard of regarding amsoil

It happened to me when I switched to Royal Purple.

I firmly believe our transmissions like the plain old stock fluids.

I haven't a trouble since switching back.


It is actually too slippery for the clutches in the trans.
Exactly what I heard elsewhere.

michael ward
07-21-2006, 10:13 PM
Well,

The guy that told me was a "Master Tech" at one of the largest Ford dealers in the country?? This was back when EVERY Ford had terrible converter shudder and they had NO REBUILT torque converters!!:mad2:

I have used it in all of my CV's (7) and as a precaution in my Marauder!!:beer:

The only down side is the stuff really stinks and if you spill a drop you will smell it for a week!!:argue:

What is does is dissolve the "Glaze" on the friction surfaces....exactly what it does in the rear end!!:bows:

Do as you wish but this works immediately and you may have to flush it several more times to fix it the way you are going now!!??:confused:

Thanks for finally responding to me......I was beginning to think my previous posts were invisable!!:rolleyes:

Good Luck!!

Marauderjack:burnout: sorry for not responding right away and thanks for your help I was waiting for some answers from the dealer. when they did my power flush they added one pint cleaner then one pint stabilizer to the new trans fluid not sure if it does the same thing?? I know it cleans the trans and helps shift smoother..

RF Overlord
07-22-2006, 06:31 AM
they added one pint cleaner then one pint stabilizer to the new trans fluid No, no, no, no, no, no, no. :shake:

Your transmission does NOT need either of those things; their only purpose in life is to inflate the dealer's bottom line. "Stabiliser"? To stabilise what? :rolleyes:

Since the stuff is already there, if your shudder is gone, then leave it alone. I would do a couple of pan-drops (no need to do the filter again) at your earliest convenience. Refill with straight Mercon V only. No miracle-in-a-can additives. That's all the 4R70W needs to live a long, happy life. :)

stryker
07-23-2006, 06:14 PM
Well I still have the Valvoline Mercon V with the stabilisers they pour on the tranny and I have not problem with mine the tranny shifts very excelent in slow speeds and faster speeds the tranny was flushed in june 23 2006 in Western Auto since that day I was testing my tranny and observing for any suspicious noise from the tranny but fortunally none it responds very,very optimus RFOVERLORD warn me about the not use of "additives for tranny" but untill now I have no neggative effects but in the next power flush I will tell the tech to don't pour those additives and I will watch for any change, Well I will not use the Amsoil tranny oil I will still with Valvoline Mercon V ¿does any of the Marauderers here use this brand in their Panthers?


STRYKER.

stryker
07-25-2006, 10:27 AM
Well I still have the Valvoline Mercon V with the stabilisers they pour on the tranny and I have not problem with mine the tranny shifts very excelent in slow speeds and faster speeds the tranny was flushed in june 23 2006 in Western Auto since that day I was testing my tranny and observing for any suspicious noise from the tranny but fortunally none it responds very,very optimus RFOVERLORD warn me about the not use of "additives for tranny" but untill now I have no neggative effects but in the next power flush I will tell the tech to don't pour those additives and I will watch for any change, Well I will not use the Amsoil tranny oil I will still with Valvoline Mercon V żdoes any of the Marauderers here use this brand in their Panthers?


STRYKER. Any additional comments about this ?


STRYKER.

RF Overlord
07-25-2006, 11:42 AM
stryker, I use Motorcraft MV in the Marauder. I have no experience with Valvoline MV, but I've heard nothing bad about it, either. Valvoline products are good in general, so I wouldn't be concerned.

Drock96Marquis
07-25-2006, 01:46 PM
From what i hear, specifications/requirements on Mercon V are so strict, that any brand will do.

I do not trust any of the super-multi-fluid ATFs. It does not seem possible to me that a fluid that meets the specs for Mercon, can also meet the specs for the super-slippery Mercon V. It seems to me that if a fluid is approved for Mercon V and Mercon, that you shouldn't use it in a tranny that REQUIRES Mercon (ie e40d, 4r100) which are known to have severe damage due to use of Mercon V.
A few members on CVN have noticed harsher shifts after switching to AMSOIL ATF, YMMV.


FWIW, I use Motorcraft Mercon V in my 4r70w.


MarauderJack, are you reffering to the same friction modifier used in the rear end on LSD-equipped vehicles?

Marauderjack
07-25-2006, 02:32 PM
Yes Sir I am and I have used it for years where shuddering is a problem!!:beer:

RF Overlord
07-25-2006, 02:50 PM
I do not trust any of the super-multi-fluid ATFs. It does not seem possible to me that a fluid that meets the specs for Mercon, can also meet the specs for the super-slippery Mercon V. I agree, but it seems we're in the minority. ;)

I especially don't understand how a single "multi-vehicle formula" ATF can meet specs from Ford, DCX, and GM, when some parts of the specs are mutually exclusive. :shake:

SergntMac
07-25-2006, 03:02 PM
This is not my humble opinion, it's the truth.

The torque convertor on the Kenny Brown #1x is the PI Stallion triple plate design, and the first triple plate Stallion ever made by PI. The 4R70W tranny was built by Jerry Wrobleski himself, and no one knows more about the 4R70W tranny than Jerry.

I don't know what KB put in the tranny during the #1x build, but it wasn't Mercon V. The TC balked and shuddered violently during it's Car and Driver road test, enough that they mentioned this in the article. When the car was returned, Mercon V was installed, and it's been fine ever since. Had the T/C out in early '05 for a change in stall, and the tech at PI said it looked brand new.

PI says Mercon V
JW says Mercon V

This is one of few and rare occassions here, where there is only one answer, and it's not just IMHO.

Carry on, gents.

stryker
07-25-2006, 04:59 PM
Well Marauderers, in my situation it is almost impossible or very hard to find Motorcraft Mercon V transmission fluid so I decide to use Valvoline Mercon V due that I heard for the good reputation this brand of oils have. !BUT! if I could find the Motorcraft Mercon V in the next power flushing I will switch to Motorcraft and I will watching how the 4R70W works.


STRYKER.

RF Overlord
07-25-2006, 05:24 PM
and no one knows more about the 4R70W tranny than Jerry. Jerry = :bows:

stryker
07-25-2006, 06:30 PM
Jerry = :bows: :confused: I do not understand what you mean with that be more especific. Thanks.:banana2:


STRYKER.

Drock96Marquis
07-25-2006, 08:04 PM
:confused: I do not understand what you mean with that be more especific. Thanks.:banana2:


STRYKER.

Jerry Wrobleski = 4r70w guru

stryker
07-25-2006, 08:43 PM
Hmmmmm interesting I want to contact him ?


STRYKER.

MM03MOK
07-25-2006, 08:51 PM
Hmmmmm interesting I want to contact him ?


STRYKER.Here you go.....Happy Reading

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml

Ford Overdrive Transmissions 101
By Ford Transmission Engineer - Jerry Wroblewski

stryker
07-25-2006, 09:27 PM
What is the difference in GM's and Thunderbirds this last one uses the same transmission as the GM,CV,CVPI,TC ?

STRYKER.

RF Overlord
07-25-2006, 09:58 PM
stryker, the 4R70W has been used in almost everything Ford has made in the last 10 or 15 years. It's in vans, pickup trucks, Mustangs...you name it. In the early days it was known as the AOD-E (Automatic OverDrive- Electronically controlled). The 4R70W is the same transmission as the AOD-E but with a wide-ratio gear set.

Jerry Wroblewski used to be a transmission design engineer for Ford and is one of the principle designers of the 4R70W. As SergntMac said, NO ONE knows more about this transmission than Jerry. After leaving Ford, he was one of the founders of FordChip.com, eventually selling his tuning expertise to, and becoming a partner in, Superchips Custom Tuning, where he is today.

michael ward
08-01-2006, 10:33 PM
coming home from work tonight my trans felt like it was shifting all over the place. also when i got on I55 it shuddered all the way up to 65mph. and off of every traffic light . before i spend any more money on trans fluid changes. i'm wondering if there is a problem. I did a pan drop. then added amsoil synthetic trans fluid. drove car for a month and did a power flush. now there is all ams oil in trans. drove car two months and start to feel a shudder between 25 and 30mph. drive another month now shudder is worse at around 40mph.take car to dealer do a filter change and a power flush and put mercon v back in car plus they added 1pint cleaner and 1pint supplement. because the synthetic fluid is too slippery.... well i put over 400 miles on mercon v oil and it does not feel any better.... and i'm sure this hot weather is not helping.. I wish they never put the supplement and cleaner in trans and i'm wondering if thats the problem??? should I take to dealer and do another pan drop and add MERCON V only!! thanks for your input...

Zack
08-02-2006, 05:10 AM
coming home from work tonight my trans felt like it was shifting all over the place. also when i got on I55 it shuddered all the way up to 65mph. and off of every traffic light . before i spend any more money on trans fluid changes. i'm wondering if there is a problem. I did a pan drop. then added amsoil synthetic trans fluid. drove car for a month and did a power flush. now there is all ams oil in trans. drove car two months and start to feel a shudder between 25 and 30mph. drive another month now shudder is worse at around 40mph.take car to dealer do a filter change and a power flush and put mercon v back in car plus they added 1pint cleaner and 1pint supplement. because the synthetic fluid is too slippery.... well i put over 400 miles on mercon v oil and it does not feel any better.... and i'm sure this hot weather is not helping.. I wish they never put the supplement and cleaner in trans and i'm wondering if thats the problem??? should I take to dealer and do another pan drop and add MERCON V only!! thanks for your input...
Take it to Van Drunen Ford in Homewood. Tell them we are friends. Talk to Keith at the service desk.
Have him drive it and he will most likely authorize a rebuild under warranty.
Barry will do the rebuild and anyone at that shop will tell you he is a transmission god.
708-798-1668

michael ward
08-03-2006, 06:24 AM
Take it to Van Drunen Ford in Homewood. Tell them we are friends. Talk to Keith at the service desk.
Have him drive it and he will most likely authorize a rebuild under warranty.
Barry will do the rebuild and anyone at that shop will tell you he is a transmission god.
708-798-1668thanks for the info zack i called my dealer and have a appt. for monday they want to drive car also and see whats going on. they also have a trans god named brian.. and then i will take it from there..

michael ward
08-03-2006, 10:45 PM
well its two nights later and now I'm more confused:confused: than ever? on my way home tonight not one slip or shudder and its 70" outside. but it did it on the way to work.I have also noticed that the car felt a lot mor responsive tonight in the cooler weather.. than in high 90s .I think I might have t.c glaze? when I get on it it seems to shift ok. like I did on the way home tonight.. I know it could be several things hope to find out for sure on monday..

Krytin
08-04-2006, 06:57 AM
Amsoil in the transmission is probably the cause.
Switch back to the factory stuff. This is the 3rd case ive heard of regarding amsoil
Yep, what he said! You need to use Mercon Type V fluid only!

stryker
08-04-2006, 09:59 PM
Hmmmmmm I was about to use the Amsoil tranny oil in the next flushing,now I will still with the Valvoline Mercon V untill now I have no problem since I flushed and used the Valvoline Mercon V with an addites for enhance the quality of the Mercon V and the internal parts.


STRYKER.

RF Overlord
08-05-2006, 05:00 AM
stryker, whether you choose to use the AMSOIL (which I'm hesitant to recommend) or the Valvoline, you don't need any miracle-in-a-can additives to "enhance the quality". Both are excellent products and the Mercon V spec includes all the protection the transmission needs. Adding anything else to it is a waste of money.

stryker
08-05-2006, 07:36 AM
:burn: Heeeeyyyy RFOVERLORD, Don't worry in the next flushing I will change the oil tranny pan for a more capacity one and the filter plus new trans oil Valvoline but I will tell the tech no additives and will see how it works.


STRYKER.

michael ward
08-08-2006, 10:52 PM
thanks for the info zack i called my dealer and have a appt. for monday they want to drive car also and see whats going on. they also have a trans god named brian.. and then i will take it from there..well do i feel stupid... it really felt like a shudder and check engine light never came on.. what i thought was a trans problem really was a misfire problem. number three cylinder coil pack was bad.. they replaced coil asy and checked plugs . all back to normal thank god!!

JACook
08-09-2006, 12:10 AM
I especially don't understand how a single "multi-vehicle formula" ATF can meet specs from Ford, DCX, and GM, when some parts of the specs are mutually exclusive. :shake:
Just picked up a case of Mercon V today, and the packaging says "New Formula" and now claims it can be
used in transmissions that require Dexron, and also meets "H Specification", which is the latest GM Dexron III
spec. Not sure I'm comfortable with this one-fluid-fits-all approach, but I guess it is what it is.

I'm with RF and the others here. Won't use anything but Motorcraft Mercon V in my 4R70W.

SergntMac
08-09-2006, 10:26 AM
well do i feel stupid... it really felt like a shudder and check engine light never came on.. what i thought was a trans problem really was a misfire problem. number three cylinder coil pack was bad.. they replaced coil asy and checked plugs . all back to normal thank god!!Whew! Gald things worked out for you, Mike. And, we have another sympton to catalogue as well. Thanks!

RF Overlord
08-09-2006, 05:54 PM
So apparently it wasn't the AMSOIL ATF after all. Well, that's good to know, too. Thanks for keeping us up to date, Mike. :)

michael ward
08-10-2006, 10:23 AM
So apparently it wasn't the AMSOIL ATF after all. Well, that's good to know, too. Thanks for keeping us up to date, Mike. :)well I might have spoke too soon when I left the dealer tuesday morning my car drove fine. until last night it started to shudder again from 20mph and real bad at 40mph.. wtf.. so back to the dealer I go.... I'll keep you informed

whd507
08-11-2006, 07:16 AM
what about the mobil 1 fluid? I have heard horror stories about amzoil in powerstrokes E40Ds, yet Mobil 1 works really good in them.

the bottle says it meets mercon V specs.

michael ward
08-11-2006, 08:39 AM
well I might have spoke too soon when I left the dealer tuesday morning my car drove fine. until last night it started to shudder again from 20mph and real bad at 40mph.. wtf.. so back to the dealer I go.... I'll keep you informedwell I back again from dealer today they found that did not show up on tuesday #4 and#8 coil packs asy were also bad .. so I had a total of three bad coil packs. they list at $130.00 each but the were covered under warranty.whew!! drove home fine but we'll see.. so far no trans problem...

stryker
08-11-2006, 07:45 PM
LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS YOUR TECH FIX A FAIL ON A FEW COIL PACS AND AFTER THAT IS NO SHUDDERING, ¿DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR TRANNY THE SAME AMSOIL TRANS FLUID OR IS STILL THE SAME FLUID IN YOUR TRANNY?


STRYKER.

michael ward
08-11-2006, 10:25 PM
LET ME UNDERSTAND THIS YOUR TECH FIX A FAIL ON A FEW COIL PACS AND AFTER THAT IS NO SHUDDERING, żDO YOU HAVE IN YOUR TRANNY THE SAME AMSOIL TRANS FLUID OR IS STILL THE SAME FLUID IN YOUR TRANNY?


STRYKER.amsoil trans fluid is out and ford mercon v is in... replaced three coil packs and shudder feel is gone..

RF Overlord
08-12-2006, 11:28 AM
So reply #47 ^^^ was accurate after all... :D

I'm glad you're back to 100% now, though it seems unusual to have 3 bad coils in such a short time...

michael ward
08-12-2006, 01:22 PM
So reply #47 ^^^ was accurate after all... :D

I'm glad you're back to 100% now, though it seems unusual to have 3 bad coils in such a short time... thanks and yes no problems with amsoil as far as i know.. its gone now and i'm staying with mercon v

stryker
08-30-2006, 07:37 PM
You will keep with the Motorcraft MercconV or you will switch to Amsoil in a next tranny oil change ?


STRYKER.

michael ward
08-31-2006, 11:23 PM
You will keep with the Motorcraft MercconV or you will switch to Amsoil in a next tranny oil change ?


STRYKER.yes I'm going to keep motorcraft mercon v I was told that are trans like it best...

stryker
09-01-2006, 03:10 PM
:banana2: Ok Mang but as for me I will keep with Valvoline Mercon V, 3 Months have been passed when I flused the transmission of my new "M" Panther and the tranny functions excelent and shifts optimus. what I have in plans is to swap the stock tranny oil pan for for the Ford Racing one, Motorcraft Mercon V is almost impossible to find it here only the Ford stealership have them for his own technical use.


STRYKER.