Brake job complete - is this normal???

[Ozz]

Greetings,
I recently upgraded my brakes to Power Stop slotted/drilled rotors (Bendix version) and Axxis Metal Master pads. I flushed the system with high performance DOT 4 fluid while I was at it.
I have a couple of issues now.

1. The pedal does not engage the brakes until it is about half way down. Is this normal? I can't remember but I am hoping as the new pads and rotors bed that this will return to normal. Will it?

2. When I brake there is a slight vibration in the pedal. It has gotten better in the first 50 miles but is not completely gone. I am hoping that it is just contamination on the rotors (I did clean them well before installing them). Another symption is that at low speed braking (5 mpth to 0), if I hold the pedal steady, I can feel a pulsation as the car comes to a stop. The pulsation is much more frequent than the rotation of the wheels so I am wondering if this may just be the slots grabbing the pads at low speeds?

Does this all sound 'normal' or do I have a problem?

THANKS!!!

P.s. What's your preferred break in proceedure???

[Smokie]

Greetings,
I recently upgraded my brakes to Power Stop slotted/drilled rotors (Bendix version) and Axxis Metal Master pads. I flushed the system with high performance DOT 4 fluid while I was at it.
I have a couple of issues now.

1. The pedal does not engage the brakes until it is about half way down. Is this normal? No is not, sounds like air in the line I can't remember but I am hoping as the new pads and rotors bed that this will return to normal. Will it?

2. When I brake there is a slight vibration in the pedal. It has gotten better in the first 50 miles but is not completely gone. I am hoping that it is just contamination on the rotors (I did clean them well before installing them). Another symption is that at low speed braking (5 mpth to 0), if I hold the pedal steady, I can feel a pulsation as the car comes to a stop. The pulsation is much more frequent than the rotation of the wheels so I am wondering if this may just be the slots grabbing the pads at low speeds?

Does this all sound 'normal' or do I have a problem?

THANKS!!!

P.s. What's your preferred break in proceedure???

There is a post about break-in procedure on Baer brakes, should be easy to find with a search, nothing that you describe sounds normal for new rotors and pads to me, but I am use to OEM procedures, it may be part of normal break in for the rotor/pad combo you have. The pedal not engaging until half-way down is wrong, unless what you mean is: they feel soft and mushy, nothing is not right.

[grampaws]

This doesn't sound normal I would rebleed the brakes...
and reinspect the installation..new brakes should feel
the same or better than before..the pulsation could be
a rotor thats not sitting on the hub properly,some corrosion
on the hub behind the rotor..ceck the tightnes of the wheel nuts
if one is loose that could be the suspect wheel..

[SergntMac]

I don't think this explains anything related to your complaints, but check and make sure your brake fluid is ABS compatabile. As I recall it when I did mine the first time around, some are not and Kenny Brown supplied Wilwood 570 fluid. Good stuff.

[RF Overlord]

+1 for still having air in the lines.

Pulsation in the pedal is normally caused by a warped rotor or hot-spots. Since these are new rotors, hot-spots shouldn't be an issue, so I would suspect if it's not one of the things grampaws mentioned, then one or more rotors are not true.

[Blackened300a]

When I upgraded my brakes, for the first 500 miles the braking felt worse, I would have had to stop sooner to avoid a crash, then after a while they started working fine.
I had a vibration after painting calipers, it seems that a slight drop of paint came between the caliper seat and the pad. It drove me nuts for a week til I noticed it. Try cleaning the caliper to pad surface and behind the rotors really good. That would be the only cause for a vibration unless you dropped the rotor during installation.
Also be sure to check your lugs.

[SergntMac]

This is why you "bed" brakes when they are new.

Try a few "firm" stops from 60 MPH, three or more. Not "avoiding a crash" sudden, rather just enough to warm everything up, and let it cool by cruizin around, then try again.

Things should improve. Every once in a while, I get a squeek from the Baer kit, and the brakes feel like they are glazed. I do this once or twice every so often, and it all goes away.

[Ozz]

Yes, the fluid is compatible with ABS.

I did paint the calipers at the same time and used a razor blade to scrape off any drops that got inside the calipers where it would touch the pads.

I went out and raised the car and rotated each wheel and listened for a uniform rubbing sound. They all sounded perfect except for the front left. It was very uniform but I could hear that one spot on the rotor created what sounded like slightly more drag than the rest. It appeared, to the eye, to be rotating true.
I will take the front left apart and look for more paint, etc under the pad and I will check the runout of the rotor.
Am I going to ruin anything driving it like this for a day or two? I am not too excited about tearing into it during this heat wave...

THANKS!

[KillJoy]

I would also guess air in the lines (I just did this too, and had the SAME problem).

3 Pumps, open Bleeder and then one slow Pedel Pump.

This solved MY problems.

KillJoy

[fastblackmerc]

I would also guess air in the lines (I just did this too, and had the SAME problem).

3 Pumps, open Bleeder and then one slow Pedel Pump.

This solved MY problems.

KillJoy
Don't you mean 3 pedal pumps, press the pedal down and then open the bleeder screw? Repeat untill no air bubbles come out. Start with the RR, LR, RF then LF last.

[KillJoy]

If the Pedal is down when you open the screw, it can pull stuff in while the Pedal is going back up....

KillJoy

[fastblackmerc]

Correct, you want to press the pedal down forcing the brake fluid out the bleeder screw, then you tighen the screw and let the brake pedal come back up.

[Ozz]

I bled the brakes by opening the bleeder as my wife pushed the pedal down. When it was down, she told me and I closed the valve. My only fear is that I opened the valve before the pedal was all the way to the top.

Yea, there is a vibration in the front when I brake. I can sometimes feel it in the wheel also. I'm going to have to take the rotors in and get them turned this weekend...

[KillJoy]

You shouldn't need to get new rotors turned.....

KillJoy

[grampaws]

Take them back,they should exchange them...

[Ozz]

As I have put more miles on the car, the pedal feel has come back to normal but I am still chasing the vibration. I can feel it, and occasionally see it in the steering wheel.

I checked the runout of both front rotors and they are each less than .003". Thickness is right on (within .001").

One thing that I notice is that when I moved the right side caliper around (to make the inner or outer pads engage alternately) while I am rotating the rotor, the inner right side sounds like it may have extra friction over about half of it. The slight grinding sound gets stronger. I inspected the inside of the rotor and ran my hand over it all the way around and I can't feel any difference.
Another thing I noticed as I rotated it was that the space in the center of the rotor (vents) are not quite centered. Meaning that if I watch the vents in the center of the rotor surfaces, the space is closer to the outside on one side and closer to the inside at the opposite side of the rotor.

I am just starting to wonder if some harder break in runs may solve this problem. Probably not, but I'd like to think so...

I bought the rotors through an Ebay vendor so I will need a replacement set before I take the ones I have off... I'll send them an email about the problem I am having and see what they say.

[shakes_26]

I bought the rotors through an Ebay vendor so I will need a replacement set before I take the ones I have off... I'll send them an email about the problem I am having and see what they say.

You get what you pay for.

That said, try and see if seasoning will help, make sure your able to let them cool down properly (long high speed drive after with no braking), then leave them overnight.

Also check that there isn't a wheel weight missing. I'd have the tire/rim in question road forced as well. I'd put money on this or the rotor being out of balance.

Also Recheck your torque on the front wheels, make sure its even all around, if theres too much or too much difference between lugs, your rotor could be getting 'warped' when the rim is bolted on.

[MENINBLK]

I bought the rotors through an Ebay vendor so I will need a replacement set before I take the ones I have off... I'll send them an email about the problem I am having and see what they say.

With all of the vendors here that have EXPERIENCE with our Marauder,
why would you go to EBAY ???

[Ozz]

I went out last night and did the Hawk burnishing proceedure. Today the brake performance is very good but the vibration in the front (pedal and steering wheel) is not acceptable. I can see a vibration in the steering wheel at highway speeds. It is a harmonic of some sort because it comes on strong and then goes and comes right back in an endless cycle...

Yea, I knew I'd get flamed... :flamer:
You're right, you get what you pay for. Sometimes though it's tough to get the 'finance department' (wife - who happens to be very pregnant) to approve what is seen as 'a ton of money - when the brakes that are on there are fine'.

Anyway, I will ask for a replacement set of rotors for the front. If nothing else, I will take it to a brake shop and get an expert opinion - and pay dearly for it.

I'll surely end up spending more in the end than I would have if I just went with a MM.net vendor..... I'm an idiot I guess. :rolleyes:

[RF Overlord]

No, you are NOT an idiot, Ozz. There is nothing wrong with trying to get the best value for your money. Unfortunately, there are unscrupulous vendors, both online and bricks & mortar, willing to take your money for inferior product. Also unfortunately, it's difficult to judge whether a vendor is reliable, especially on a forum like e-Bay, without corroboration by people you trust.

Another question: does the vibration occur ONLY when braking? I ask this because you said the vibration appears to have a resonance to it that comes and goes. Generally a warped rotor will vibrate steadily when the brakes are applied.

[fastblackmerc]

Try taking the front tires off and rotating them 180 degrees and see if the vibration changes.

[Ozz]

There is a vibration in the wheel some of the time when driving and not braking... so I guess it's all the time.

I had the wheels off again last night to check runout. I didn't attempt to put them on in a different position but I would assume they were just by chance.

I just had the tires mounted about two weeks before the brake job and I never noticed any vibration before the brakes so I am blaming it on the brakes. I will check and make sure that the weights are still on them though.

THANKS!

[ctrlraven]

If you want to bleed your brakes, get some speed bleeders from NAPA or AutoZone. They have made every brake job I've done 10x easier.

[GreekGod]

If you don't have a power bleeder, just gravity bleed the whole system, one wheel at a time.

[ScottB]

Any luck on the vibration thing? Still troubleshooting here.