What the best aluminium Block Upgrade?

[Loco1234]

Im xhanging the Aluminium block in my Marauder. What kind of block should I get? Should I purchase the block I have heard refered to as the Mountain block. Im also changing out the crankshaft, rods, and pistons. I wanna go forged or better. Any suggestions?
Thanks:beer:

[Zack]

That would be the Teksid Block.
ModularFrods.com and Corral.net have them in the classifieds all the time.

[SergntMac]

Im xhanging the Aluminium block in my Marauder. What kind of block should I get? Should I purchase the block I have heard refered to as the Mountain block. Im also changing out the crankshaft, rods, and pistons. I wanna go forged or better. Any suggestions? Thanks:beer: "mountain" means Mountaineer block. Better than our blocks? (shrug) don't really know. Like with the "Teksid" block a few years ago, I believe there is some urban mythology involved. Enthuiasts sometimes love the exotic mod, over that which performs well.

As for internals, it depends on what you want to do with the car. Most folks choose a forged steel crank, but a well balanced cast crank is just as strong, durable and efficient. The key is getting a good balance/blueprint job, by a builder who knows his stuff.

Definately forged steel con rods, H beam is my choice and I like Eagle and Manley. Pistons, ditto with the Manley forged aluminum, with ARP fastners throughout and a high volume oil pump. Watch your compression ratio and piston to wall clearance during the build.

Place to start...

[Loco1234]

can the block they use for the 5.0L "Cammer" motpr be used? I would prefer not to bore or stroke the motor. This is a vortec supercharged motor (S-trim) 10psi

[shakes_26]

I beleive you could, if you had $5K burning a hole in your pocket.


can the block they use for the 5.0L "Cammer" motpr be used? I would prefer not to bore or stroke the motor. This is a vortec supercharged motor (S-trim) 10psi

[SergntMac]

can the block they use for the 5.0L "Cammer" motpr be used? I would prefer not to bore or stroke the motor. This is a vortec supercharged motor (S-trim) 10psi Yep, you bet, only 3 large for the bare block. Figure about 2700-3K for the innards, like stock 4.6L spec crank and rods. Deck height is 8.9370", same as the 4.6L, this would be one sweet engine in a Marauder.

[STLR FN]

Isn't RR/Suki's a '5.0 Cammer' in his Marauder?

[SergntMac]

Isn't RR/Suki's a '5.0 Cammer' in his Marauder?He had some engine problems and may have changed a few things in the rebuild, but the original build was based on a VT stroker kit in a 4.6L Marauder engine.

[juno]

The best of the Aluminum "stock" blocks are the teksids. No urban myths involved.
They are good for 1100+ hp, some say 1500+. They were in 96-98 cobra's and mark viii's, some 99's and some of the earlier mark viii's I believe.
There are only a few slight differences, knock sensors and coolant bypass lines so far that I have encountered.

[Dennis Reinhart]

The Marauder has the same block as the Mach 1 if the Mach one is a automatic, to me I would go with a Cobra block yes it weighs a bit more but you will make this up with boost, but the question is what is the best aluminum block, another question is what is best affordable alumium block, either way go with a steel crank manly rods diamond racing pistons and good rings as well as bearings, ARP main studs as well as head studs, there are several built Mach 1 with stock blocks, with this type of upgraded internals that are making 600 plus to the tires, I would also recommend billet oil pump gears and HV oil pump. As well as a set of stage 2 Fox Lake heads.

[Joe Walsh]

"mountain" means Mountaineer block. Better than our blocks? (shrug) don't really know. Like with the "Teksid" block a few years ago, I believe there is some urban mythology involved. Enthuiasts sometimes love the exotic mod, over that which performs well.

As for internals, it depends on what you want to do with the car. Most folks choose a forged steel crank, but a well balanced cast crank is just as strong, durable and efficient. The key is getting a good balance/blueprint job, by a builder who knows his stuff.

Definately forged aluminum con rods, H beam is my choice, and I like Eagle and Manley. Pistons, ditto with the Manley. ARP fastners throughout, and a high volume oil pump. Watch your compression ratio and piston to wall clearance during the build.

Place to start...

Not to be a PITA, but I think that you meant 'steel' connecting rods.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Not to be a PITA, but I think that you meant 'steel' connecting rods.

No Pita, I meant what I said, a STEEL crank not the stock Marauder or Mach 1 crank. Manly or any other of five different companies make good rods like eagle, ross what ever you feel comfortable with, I like Manly rods diamond racing pistons. Glassman's car has made 600 RWHP on 93 octane NO nitrous and the car is a daily driver and still gets 18 MPG on the highway. I like this setup it works. I respect every ones opinion especially yours.

[SergntMac]

Not to be a PITA, but I think that you meant 'steel' connecting rods.My bad, corrections made.

Juno...Apparently you haven't heard the latest in BS, that say why the Teksid block is the best..."cause it's made in a mountain by monks"...Really. Do some google searches, I'm not kidding.

Personally, I don't believe that the Tekside is really any better than the WAP the Marauder gets. There are not enough differences between the Teksid and the WAP blocks to warrant a 2500 buck and up price tag on e-bay, or, from KarKraft. Not when you can get the 5.0L "cammer" block for 3K.

[juno]

A teksid block is made by the folks who make Ferrari and other exotics blocks. Any reference to monks and mountains is not worth even mentioning in the light of the success of the block.

You do not think the teksid block is any better then a stock marauder block? (BTW, I believe we have an NVH block not a WAP block, there are differences). You are one of a possible few who would think that, and it is irresponsible of you to even claim that. Someone building serious horsepower may have issues with the stock block, while the Teksid is proven in high horsepower applications.

The Teksids are more available then you think, being made from 93-99 and I have had the opportunity to buy more then a few in the 300-500 dollar range. Perfect if you are building a forged block and it needs to be prepped anyway.
3k for a 5.0 block to start your build is a lot of money. I paid 3k for my fully forged teksid block, made by one of the top builders in the country, I know of no issues with their work. Good for 1100 + horsepower, only limited by the cobra steel crank. Significantly more then any NVH block.
If you do not buy your 5.0 from ford, you may end up with a stock 4.6 block with iron sleeves. I have no idea what it is rated for hp wise, but it is not likely to be as strong as the Teksid block. I would be surprised if people are making over 1500 hp without significant work being done to the blocks themselves besides just sleeving.






My bad, corrections made.

Juno...Apparently you haven't heard the latest in BS, that say why the Teksid block is the best..."cause it's made in a mountain by monks"...Really. Do some google searches, I'm not kidding.

Personally, I don't believe that the Tekside is really any better than the WAP the Marauder gets. There are not enough differences between the Teksid and the WAP blocks to warrant a 2500 buck and up price tag on e-bay, or, from KarKraft. Not when you can get the 5.0L "cammer" block for 3K.

[glassman99]

To your corners gentlemen! :mad2:

[MikesMerc]

A teksid block is made by the folks who make Ferrari and other exotics blocks. Any reference to monks and mountains is not worth even mentioning in the light of the success of the block.

Someone building serious horsepower may have issues with the stock block, while the Teksid is proven in high horsepower applications.



Juno,

You are dead nuts on. The best aluminum block for our application is indeed the Teksid blocks bar none. Zack hit the nail on the head in his the first reply to this thread.

I have no idea why anyone would like to pretend that the 4.6 motor in the marauder application is unique or something and that we (marauder owners) have our own special book to follow. That's simply not the case. The mustang guys have known it for YEARS when it comes to aluminum 4.6 blocks....the Teksid blocks are simply stronger pieces (These blocks received special treatment...cast in SAE 319-modified aluminum alloy and heat treated, as well as a little extra beef in the webbing). A simple stop at any mustang site where the big boys play is enough to prove the point.

As for price, juno, you are right again. A smart shopper can pick up teksid without spending $2500. More like $800 is where I see them.

It blows my mind to even see this basic aluminum 4.6 fact disputed.

[Joe Walsh]

I was junkyard hunting with my brother today and came across several Lincoln's with the aluminum DOHC engines.
Is there any quick way to tell the Teksid blocks from the run-of-the-mill blocks??

BTW: There were two complete Taurus SHOs waiting for someone to snag those gorgeous Yamaha DOHC V6s.
Also saw a 1973 Brougham with a 4 bbl 429 big block...engine was complete for $150.00!

[FordNut]

I was junkyard hunting with my brother today and came across several Lincoln's with the aluminum DOHC engines.
Is there any quick way to tell the Teksid blocks from the run-of-the-mill blocks??

Mark VIII. I got one for $400. Complete engine.

[Joe Walsh]

Mark VIII. I got one for $400. Complete engine.

Cool...
All Mark VIIIs have the Teksid block?
There were two Mark VIIIs in the junkyard.
All engines (no accessories) in this junkyard are $150.00.
All blocks are $100.00.

BTW: Anything special about a 1973 429 4 bbl?
$100.00 for a stout big block is a nice project starter...

[Loco1234]

This link talks about block but he appears to have it a bit wrong from what Im hearing here. The teksid block should perform every bit as good as the cast iron cobra block and it will weight less.

http://www.modularfords.com/articles/Modular_Motor_Build_Up__Part_2 __Engine_Block_Preparation/1.html



also in this article it stated:
"Factory main bolts are inadequate in the entire line of blocks we have discussed. A torque to yield bolt, like the factory is using, is high risk and would be the weak link in any performance engine build up. One can not go as far as to say they do not work, but when you’re investing the time and money in this type of project why roll the dice in this manner. A good high grade main stud kit is a GREAT insurance policy. They offer far superior strength and a stud can effectively clamp in a much more efficient manner then a bolt. They can also be used over and over. Now when your engine builder needs to torque the mains to properly bore & hone the block, more on this in a future article, the bolts will not to be an issue. The use of stock bolts creates the need to purchase multiple sets of main bolts in one rebuild, if done properly."

....anyone have any opinions or thoughts on this?


Also Juno I read that you said:
"(BTW, I believe we have an NVH block not a WAP block, there are differences)."

Does anyone know honestly what the differences are?

Thanks...:burnout:

[SergntMac]

It never ceases to amaze me how a discussion of facts can turn into insult and inflamation. However, that's the way it seems to be...Again.

[SergntMac]

This link talks about block but he appears to have it a bit wrong from what Im hearing here. The teksid block should perform every bit as good as the cast iron cobra block and it will weight less.

http://www.modularfords.com/articles/Modular_Motor_Build_Up__Part_2 __Engine_Block_Preparation/1.html

also in this article it stated:
"Factory main bolts are inadequate in the entire line of blocks we have discussed. A torque to yield bolt, like the factory is using, is high risk and would be the weak link in any performance engine build up. One can not go as far as to say they do not work, but when you’re investing the time and money in this type of project why roll the dice in this manner. A good high grade main stud kit is a GREAT insurance policy. They offer far superior strength and a stud can effectively clamp in a much more efficient manner then a bolt. They can also be used over and over. Now when your engine builder needs to torque the mains to properly bore & hone the block, more on this in a future article, the bolts will not to be an issue. The use of stock bolts creates the need to purchase multiple sets of main bolts in one rebuild, if done properly."

....anyone have any opinions or thoughts on this?

Also Juno I read that you said:
"(BTW, I believe we have an NVH block not a WAP block, there are differences)."

Does anyone know honestly what the differences are?

Thanks...:burnout: The differences between the WAP block and the NHV block, are thicker oil pan rails to reduce NHV in certain luxury applications such as the Marauder and Aviator. Can't see a Mach 1 owner noticing it, or complaining about it, but it got changed in the '03 introduction of these automobiles.

Yep...Your author is right on the money.

I have had the pleasure of rebuilding my Marauder block twice now, and I've been quite impressed by it's quality and durability. Thousands of supercharged miles, and every dimension of my block still meets factory specs. Therefore, I believe it's every bit as good as any Teksid forging, where-ever in the world that forging takes place, Italy, Alabama, or Mexico.

http://www.aluminum.org/Template.cfm?Section=Home&template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=3616

You have to get past the "exotic" pastel to see things clearly, and I haven't found any reason at all to suspect that I cannot build 1000 RWHP on a Marauder block. Not one, and I'm already half way there.

I agree that there are blocks available that elude to "more" this and "better" that, which may be helpful to the dedicated racer chasing a national record. But, for everyday engine building of a competitive race car that also sees it's share of street and highway time, the Marauder/Mach I/Aviator block is quite durable.

On that note, seeking out a "Teksid" for a bench build is a pretty smart start on things. It's inexpensive and available, but will require some adaptation and machining. But, no more no less machining required on a good solid professional rebuild of a competitive short block to begin with.

Some folks believe that if it's a factroy part, it's just junk. Sorry, you're going to have to prove that to me.

Question...In our small world here, and with all the crazy stuff we seem to do to our cars, has anyone ever lost an engine by reason of a bad block? Oh yeah, they get tore up when other stuff goes south, but has anyone lost a block because it was a Marauder block?

Again, a Teksid block is not a "mountain" block. That's a nic-name associated with the 4.6L Explorer/Mountaineer block prior to the '03 Marauder/Mach I/Aviator development.

[juno]

MAc,

I don't think anyone is saying the stocker is junk. If 1000 hp is someones goal, I would not start with one though. I would go teksid for sure. I think 1000 rwhp would be a risk on an NVH block, sort of like pushing our powdered rods. Not the same limits but the same general idea, you want to start with a good foundation.

Fir those of you searching the junkyards, get the serial number from the block, that will tell you what it is. If the intake is off, it is easy to tell.

[SergntMac]

Is there any quick way to tell the Teksid blocks from the run-of-the-mill blocks? Yes, inside and out.

With the manifold off, the valley has more defined webbing and structure, whereas the Tekside is smoother and the webbing more subtle. Ditto on the outside of the cylinder walls. If it's checkered with improved webbing, it's not a Teksid.

[RR|Suki]

Isn't RR/Suki's a '5.0 Cammer' in his Marauder?
If you mean the one from ford then no sir it isn't. Mine is bored and stroked stock block, the builders saw no issue with it and since I'm not going for like 1000hp like this guy I'm quite happy with it :D so I guess technically I'm at around 5.1L or so, and she sounds so sexy... but I digress. I have nothing worthwhile to add other than the stock block rocks ;)

[Loco1234]

Some one wanna give me a line on where I could buy/obtain one of these Teksid blocks... I currently have about 450rwhp/450rwtq and Im gonna upgrade the block, rods, pistons, etc....

Give me your opinions as to what a Dream build would be...
Im not saying I can afford it but I'd like to get as close as I can...

P.S. Im currently restoring a Detomaso Pantera w/ 351c boss motor. I used to run it at the track against all kind of italian exotic's. Kicked there ass everytime.
I pulled the entire vehicle apart and im currently doing an entire restoration. So this past year I took the marauder to the track event. Lets just say Ferrari owners who just paid 100grand+ for their vehicles getting lapped are not a happy bunch.
especially when its by a marauder they refered to earlier as:
"whats that TAXI CAB doing out here?"
Oh it felt good to lap them....:help:

My detomaso Pantera won't be completely restored for a while. and I really wanna go back and show those *******s up even more next year.

So give me you dream builds.... and Ill see what I can do...:help: :burnout:

[juno]

Check this thread if it is still available.

http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?t=87926

Or this for a built block
http://forums.modulardepot.com/showthread.php?t=86176

Or go on some of the mustang forums and put uo a WTB ad.



That sounds cool, tell us more!


So this past year I took the marauder to the track event. Lets just say Ferrari owners who just paid 100grand+ for their vehicles getting lapped are not a happy bunch.
especially when its by a marauder they refered to earlier as:
"whats that TAXI CAB doing out here?"
Oh it felt good to lap them....:help:

:burnout:

[MikesMerc]

Some one wanna give me a line on where I could buy/obtain one of these Teksid blocks...

If I were you, I'd go to some of the top rated mustang sites and post a WTB thread (Want To Buy) as juno suggested. I'd suggest going to Corral.net or SVTPerformance. Lots of buy/sell activity in there.

While you are there, you can check out the facts for yourself on the Teksid blocks by those folks who've been at this business of building motors much longer than the marauder group. You'll quickly find that it is a consensus accross the board that the Teksid is THE block of choice. As it doesn't cost much more than a stock block, its definitely the block to have starting from just about any point.

Also, despite what has been noted above by others, the webbing of the Teksid is beefier than a WAP block. This was done for strength as well as to allow the motor to absorb vibration. Combine this with the alloy used and the heat treat and you have one super stout aluminum block. Its actually thought of so highly that some folks have chosen it over the iron block for strength while also saving 70lbs off the nose. When they Teksids first appeared they were thought of as "overkill" for a production street car.

I can't think of a better place to start for someone building an aluminum motor. For tiny premium you get a huge increase in durability. As for no Marauder motors blowing due to block failures...well that's simply because the internals have been the weak link so far. Once the internals have been improved, the block is the next weak link. Common sense really.

Here's the easiest way to tell. Look for the grid lines in the valley. If they are square, its a Teksid. If they are diamond shape, it is not.

Teksid:
http://home.comcast.net/~mondolx/pics/teksidblock.jpg

Non Teksid:
http://www.karkraft.com/cobra_short2.jpg


Hope this helps.

BTW, I certainly hope it wasn't MY post that was considered "inflamatory" by someone above. It may have been a bit harsh, but, for god's sake, to deny the Teksid is simply the best aluminum block to have is like someone arguing that the world is flat. Its simply that proposterous.

[Tallboy]

...

BTW, I certainly hope it wasn't MY post that was considered "inflamatory" by someone above. It may have been a bit harsh, but, for god's sake, to deny the Teksid is simply the best aluminum block to have is like someone arguing that the world is flat. Its simply that proposterous.

I doubt anyone thought your post was inflammatory, Mike. As usual, you are right on the money, sharing your wisdom and offering solid advice. Thanks for the info-now even I know how to tell the difference.

[SergntMac]

I doubt anyone thought your post was inflammatory, Mike. As usual, you are right on the money, sharing your wisdom and offering solid advice. Don't let it bother you Chuck, it doesn't bother me. I'm around closed minded folks all day long and for 30 years, a lot of them have resorted to name calling and insults, rather than engage in a beneficial point-counterpoint discussion. It's nothing new here either, and the suggestion that it does not occur here...is...preposterous?

Or, maybe he was just joking...

Carry on gents, happy motoring.

[jimlam56]

Maybe I missed something in this thread, but what vehicles did the Tekskid block come in?
I saw Mark VIII, and Mountaineer, but anything else?
I'm thinking of buying a block to build up for my silver MM with S/C or T/C (The Blue is staying stock, well maybe just a tune...:D ), and buying a junkyard engine may be a possibility.
Great Thread, lots of good info!

[FordNut]

Maybe I missed something in this thread, but what vehicles did the Tekskid block come in?
I saw Mark VIII, and Mountaineer, but anything else?
I'm thinking of buying a block to build up for my silver MM with S/C or T/C (The Blue is staying stock, well maybe just a tune...:D ), and buying a junkyard engine may be a possibility.
Great Thread, lots of good info!
NOT Mountaineer.

Mark VIII '93-'98 and Cobra '96-'98 and some '99 Cobras.

[MarauderMark]

Found this in HR.Thought i'd share it with you all.:D

[Dennis Reinhart]

I used a Mark 8 block installed fox lake fully ported tumble port heads, 1998 Cobra exhaust cams 2001 lincoln navigator intake cams, manly rods CP fully coated 9 to one pistons ARP main and head studs a windage tray billet oil pump gears high volume oil pump, a Vortech T Trim 55 pound inj and Proam meter, my Mark 8 made 530 RWHP and ran 11.2 at 118 mph. The only thing I would do diferently today is I would use 60 lb injectors they flow much better than the old 50's and I would use a SCT B2800 Maf and go with the new Vortech YS Trim and put that in my Marauder. With a up graded fuel system.

[juno]

BTW, I certainly hope it wasn't MY post that was considered "inflamatory" by someone above. It may have been a bit harsh, but, for god's sake, to deny the Teksid is simply the best aluminum block to have is like someone arguing that the world is flat. Its simply that proposterous.

Mike,

They were likely referring to my post. Like you, I just wanted to get the correct info out and not have anyone mislead.
BTW, thanks for the pics, you saved me the trouble of taking pics of the two on engine stands in my garage.

[Smokie]

You guys are all wrong Reynolds Aluminum is best...;)

[juno]

You guys are all wrong Reynolds Aluminum is best...;)

:D :D Hey, I used some of that on my knock sensor, so I guess my block is a Reynolds-Teksid hybrid.

[SergntMac]

Like you, I just wanted to get the correct info out and not have anyone mislead. My goal as well, maybe next time we can stick to the facts.

[juno]

My goal as well, maybe next time we can stick to the facts.

I agree with that statement.

That is what I posted, the correct facts. You disputed my facts with internet inuendo and your opinion, which was incorrect in light of the facts and the subject. I corrected that more subtlely then you usually do. While you are a wealth of knowledge about most aspects of these cars you try to run roughshod over everyone that is not one of your cronies or disagree's with you.

[SergntMac]

That is what I posted, the correct facts. You disputed my facts with internet inuendo and your opinion, which was incorrect in light of the facts and the subject. I corrected that more subtlely then you usually do. While you are a wealth of knowledge about most aspects of these cars you try to run roughshod over everyone that is not one of your cronies or disagree's with you. Therin lies the problem, what you think of me and my intent.

I am in full agreement with you on certain facts, but also trying to dispell other misinformation that's out here as well. Maybe you have seen it too, maybe not. However, the original question was a sample of that, the "mountain" block, and why it has that association. That, and a Mach 1 owner from my area who felt lucky to get a Teksid block for 2700 bucks. However, if you are predisposed to believe I have an underlying motive other than flushing out the facts for Marauder owners here, I can't change that.

The one misconception about building any fast car is that selecting a bunch of brand names from of list of "best" is not going to be the best. There isn't any best without having a goal, or, objective in mind. For anyone wanting to build a solid and reliable engine that puts down some decent power with a margin of safety, and can still carry them to work and take the family on vacation, some things "best" are simply overkill. Money that doesn't need to be spent.

Consider if you will, the number of technical discussions I do not get involved in, and I do not because I lack my own experience with the topic. There is much discussed here I cannot add anything to at all. Then, I watch, learn, and maybe dig up some more on it, if it's something important to me. Nonetheless, I have built two Marauder engines, one the wrong way first, and I've done a lot with my Marauder heads, again the first time the wrong way, and I've learned those facts first hand. You can discredit me, but you cannot discount the value of my experience.

This will undoubtly happen again. Focus on the message, not the messenger, and it will all work out in the end.

[MI2QWK4U]

My goal as well, maybe next time we can stick to the facts.


I guess you finally understand! I don't know a fraction of what Mike knows about the Aluminum blocks, so I know enough to keep my mouth shut on a thread on that very topic! I rely on experts like Lidio to set me up with new aluminum blocks for both the my Marauder and Mach 1. Reading your posts it would appear that you are not the Aluminum block expert that you portray yourself to be. Zack was dead on correct in the second post in this thread when he stated the best aluminum block was the Teksid. Mike reaffirmed that fact. Even I know of the Teksid, as that is what Lidio recommended to me for the Mach 1, which will be getting the Kenne Bell treatment with extream boost. Stick to what you know.

[MI2QWK4U]

I agree with that statement.

That is what I posted, the correct facts. You disputed my facts with internet inuendo and your opinion, which was incorrect in light of the facts and the subject. I corrected that more subtlely then you usually do. While you are a wealth of knowledge about most aspects of these cars you try to run roughshod over everyone that is not one of your cronies or disagree's with you.


Juno....well said. I couldnt agree more, some appreciate the honesty and factual information that people like you, Mike, and others brings to this site.

[MikesMerc]

I am in full agreement with you on certain facts, but also trying to dispell other misinformation that's out here as well.

Mac, if this is what your intent is, then you need to be sure of what the facts are before you try to "dispell" the information provided by others.

The title of the thread is "What the best aluminum Block Upgrade?"

The answer was provided by Zack in post #2. The Teksid block. Period.

The very idea that you tried to discredit the Teksid block as an "urban myth" clearly demonstrates your lack of knowledge in this area...regardless of how many motors you've built. In fact, you felt the need to go for multiple paragraphs discounting the value of the Teksid and extolling the virtues of the stock block. This, in short, is a disturbing post of misinformation.

No one said the stock block sucked. However, for a small increase in investment, a better block can be had. Its that simple.

If you would take the time to do a little research you'd quickly learn that just about every reputable builder out there knows the benefits of the Teksid, as do most of the enthusiasts. My analogy stands perfectly....you ignoring the reliability benefits of the Teksid is like arguing the world is flat. Yes, your comments are that proposterous, and no, I was not joking.

I mean no offense, but why you felt the need to argue something that flies in the face of almost a decade's worth of mod motor building knowledge is beyond me. I suspect juno feels the same way.

[Dennis Reinhart]

Bottom line is no matter what, block you use it has to have the right combination of internals and the correct tuning or no matter what block you use it will not stay together. I think we have covered all bases on this. How about a cold :beer:

[MI2QWK4U]

How about a cold :beer:

Cheers! Best idea so far!

[juno]

I'm in. :beer: Cheers!!


Bottom line is no matter what, block you use it has to have the right combination of internals and the correct tuning or no matter what block you use it will not stay together. I think we have covered all bases on this. How about a cold :beer:

[Loco1234]

I like the heated debate.... No harm no foul... I think everyone has the right to voice opinion. Granted you don't want their opinion to steer you in the wrong direction.... thats why everything must be taken with a grain of salt. Bottom line is Teksid block is the best but with the horsepower our marauders are currently making if you freshen up the stock block and put in forged internals you should be just fine. of course If you have the means of obtaining a teksid block for your motor build-up; :beer: why would you not...?

[SergntMac]

Mac, if this is what your intent is, then you need to be sure of what the facts are before you try to "dispell" the information provided by others...I mean no offense, but why you felt the need to argue something that flies in the face of almost a decade's worth of mod motor building knowledge is beyond me. I suspect juno feels the same way. Well, I suppose we have rested from our typical "wars" long enough, here we go again.

Gents...Please return to the opening thread and read through again. The mythology I point to, is not about the Teksid block, but what others believe about it.

a) "It's the mountain block". It is not.

b) Found on other boards..."It comes from the hills of Italy". Half truth. The Teksid Aluminum Unit used the Fiat plants in Italy for this build. The design is Ford's, not Ferrari, who also contract the Fiat plants for their automobiles. This was probably a decision made by Ford before the Mexico plant, and has more to do with Customs duty and duty drawback in the heavy metals industries. Materials shipped to Europe for use in Europe earn a big break in Customs duties, think about it?

Teksid manfactures aluminum engines (mostly blocks and heads) elsewhere in the world, and for more than just Ford. They have plants in Mexico, and Alabama too.

c) While thisTeksid edition of the Cobra/Mark block is most desireable when starting from scratch, it is not worth the prices folks have paid for a used block of questionable quality found in a bone yard. A brand new Marauder/Mach I/Aviator 4V block is under 1400 bucks. The ultra start is the 5.0L "cammer" block, but both options are a bit pricey for the average hobbiest.

Last summer, KarKraft tried to move "the last new Teksid block" for 2500 bucks, and a guy I know from my neighborhood was proud to have won an e-bay auction for 2700 bucks. That's just stupid in my book.

d) Zack's reply is merely a correction to the question, which is to say "no, it's the Teksid block you want" and I agree. Zack is right, but also a man of few words.

e) As for my own personal opinion, unless I am shooting for 1000+ RWHP, the Teksid is not the only place to start. Establish your goal, stay on target, and the Marauder/Mach I/Aviator block is as good as any of them for up 700-750 RWHP street cars.

The name-calling and insults are falling on deaf ears, it's just the same old slap down it has always been. BTW, where's Darryl?

This doesn't have anything to do with my knowledge or beliefs. It's about the mythology that builds in the dearth of 411, and my goal was to try and stop it from taking hold here.

Build your Teksid, but keep the budget reasonable. Anything that come from the boneyard has to be checked out thoroughly, and by a professional builder. Even then, it's value has a cap, watch your pennies when buying.

You don't like my presentation in paragraphs? Don't read 'em. If all I am being is stupid? Well, I'm comfortable with it. Why can't y'all adjust too?

[BigMerc]

I guess you finally understand! I don't know a fraction of what Mike knows about the Aluminum blocks, so I know enough to keep my mouth shut on a thread on that very topic! I rely on experts like Lidio to set me up with new aluminum blocks for both the my Marauder and Mach 1. Reading your posts it would appear that you are not the Aluminum block expert that you portray yourself to be. Zack was dead on correct in the second post in this thread when he stated the best aluminum block was the Teksid. Mike reaffirmed that fact. Even I know of the Teksid, as that is what Lidio recommended to me for the Mach 1, which will be getting the Kenne Bell treatment with extream boost. Stick to what you know.


Kinda pissy for an administrator don't ya think?

[Zack]

The only advantage of a Teksid Block is reduced weight. No matter how strong the aluminum or webbing etc, it is still an aluminum block with cast iron sleeves.
You want to start from scratch, go to the ford parts counter and buy a brand new, cast iron, already machined block for about $350.
Check the machine work, do a little correction honing at best and you are done. It will be the strongest, cheapest and most reliable.
It will also lower the front of your car without suspension mods!

[KillJoy]

It will also lower the front of your car without suspension mods!

HAHA! How much more does the Steel Block weigh?

KillJoy

[SergntMac]

HAHA! How much more does the Steel Block weigh?

KillJoyApproximates...Shipping weight will include shipping material(s).
Teksid = 85 pounds
WAP/NVH = 80 pounds
Iron = 155 pounds

But don't listen to me, eh?

[KillJoy]

I guess I would have expected ALL of the blocks to weigh considerable more.

I can definately see an advantage for getting an AL Block as opposed to Steel.

KillJoy

[MI2QWK4U]

Kinda pissy for an administrator don't ya think?


Being an admin doesnt prevent me from forming or stating my opinion. there is nothing pissy about the fact that Mac sometimes thinks he knows it all... People that do know posted up, and he spoke up, not knowing what he was talking about. All I did is stick up for a couple of guys the know what they are talking about. My concern is that someone that doesnt know better will listen to mis information and make a decision based on that, hardly pissy.

[MI2QWK4U]

Well, I suppose we have rested from our typical "wars" long enough, here we go again.

Gents...Please return to the opening thread and read through again. The mythology I point to, is not about the Teksid block, but what others believe about it.

a) "It's the mountain block". It is not.

b) Found on other boards..."It comes from the hills of Italy". Half truth. The Teksid Aluminum Unit used the Fiat plants in Italy for this build. The design is Ford's, not Ferrari, who also contract the Fiat plants for their automobiles. This was probably a decision made by Ford before the Mexico plant, and has more to do with Customs duty and duty drawback in the heavy metals industries. Materials shipped to Europe for use in Europe earn a big break in Customs duties, think about it?

Teksid manfactures aluminum engines (mostly blocks and heads) elsewhere in the world, and for more than just Ford. They have plants in Mexico, and Alabama too.

c) While thisTeksid edition of the Cobra/Mark block is most desireable when starting from scratch, it is not worth the prices folks have paid for a used block of questionable quality found in a bone yard. A brand new Marauder/Mach I/Aviator 4V block is under 1400 bucks. The ultra start is the 5.0L "cammer" block, but both options are a bit pricey for the average hobbiest.

Last summer, KarKraft tried to move "the last new Teksid block" for 2500 bucks, and a guy I know from my neighborhood was proud to have won an e-bay auction for 2700 bucks. That's just stupid in my book.

d) Zack's reply is merely a correction to the question, which is to say "no, it's the Teksid block you want" and I agree. Zack is right, but also a man of few words.

e) As for my own personal opinion, unless I am shooting for 1000+ RWHP, the Teksid is not the only place to start. Establish your goal, stay on target, and the Marauder/Mach I/Aviator block is as good as any of them for up 700-750 RWHP street cars.

The name-calling and insults are falling on deaf ears, it's just the same old slap down it has always been. BTW, where's Darryl?

This doesn't have anything to do with my knowledge or beliefs. It's about the mythology that builds in the dearth of 411, and my goal was to try and stop it from taking hold here.

Build your Teksid, but keep the budget reasonable. Anything that come from the boneyard has to be checked out thoroughly, and by a professional builder. Even then, it's value has a cap, watch your pennies when buying.

You don't like my presentation in paragraphs? Don't read 'em. If all I am being is stupid? Well, I'm comfortable with it. Why can't y'all adjust too?


Amazing what a Google search will turn up.....

[Dennis Reinhart]

Now this has been a very good post its informative not :argue: yes as Zack said you save a few pounds with a aluminum block if it was me building a motor I would go with the later Cobra block,the weight of yhe Cobra block can make this up in boost, there is a twin turbo here in Jax that makes 1012 on a stock 06 GT cats block, every one has there opinions, and we all respect them.

[SergntMac]

Being an admin doesnt prevent me from forming or stating my opinion. there is nothing pissy about the fact that Mac sometimes thinks he knows it all... People that do know posted up, and he spoke up, not knowing what he was talking about. All I did is stick up for a couple of guys the know what they are talking about. My concern is that someone that doesnt know better will listen to mis information and make a decision based on that, hardly pissy. Who needed your backing?

I was five posts into the topic, and the second to provide the correct 411, when the crap began. I'm still not wrong on anything I've posted. I didn't throw the first punch, and I have yet to swing back. It's not necessary when you are posting the truth, and it's not my fault when someone misunderstands what I am saying. Read it all again, takes five minutes to see what's going on.

Moderator or not, you are entitled to your opinions, I agree. Likewise, I have my opinions too, and clearly seperated from my facts. So, refute my facts, don't jump into a discussion with character slams because you can. I thought those days had passed.

This is Reinhart's forum, and like other vendors here, he can ask me to shut up, and I will, no problem.

[Bigdogjim]

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

[MikesMerc]

b) Found on other boards..."It comes from the hills of Italy". Half truth. The Teksid Aluminum Unit used the Fiat plants in Italy for this build.


First off, no one cares where it was made Mac. Only you seem get all excited about "Italy" being associated with the teksid. Who cares. Its about the quality of the block....period.

Second, if all you managed to get from "other boards" is that "It comes from the hills of Italy" then, to be honest, you need to brush up on your internet information gathering techniques. Visit corral.net (one the the larger most respected mustang forums) and you'll find some real information of why enthusiasts and builders like the Teksid.




c) While thisTeksid edition of the Cobra/Mark block is most desireable when starting from scratch, it is not worth the prices folks have paid for a used block of questionable quality found in a bone yard.

Just because a few fools decided to overpay for their block doesn't mean anything. *sigh* yet again I refer you to visit some sites where the For Sale sections are decent and you'll see Teksid blocks going for very reasonable prices. Corral has a bunch going right now in the $300 range.

BTW, the references to "bone yard" is a weak attempt at trying to cast a used block in a bad light. Any serious enthusiasts would laugh you out of town. Some of the best peices of automotive hardware are still found in salvage yards today. Its shocking you didn't know that.




Last summer, KarKraft tried to move "the last new Teksid block" for 2500 bucks, and a guy I know from my neighborhood was proud to have won an e-bay auction for 2700 bucks. That's just stupid in my book.

Yes, the guy in your neighborhood is a total idiot and a fool with his money. So what does this have to do with the Teksid block again?




d) Zack's reply is merely a correction to the question, which is to say "no, it's the Teksid block you want" and I agree. Zack is right, but also a man of few words.

I'm sure zack appreciates your correction of his post and a complete readjustment of his intentions. Where he would be without you is a mystery.:rolleyes:

Trouble is, the thread title is "What [is] the best aluminum block upgrade"

Teksid was the answer.



e) As for my own personal opinion, unless I am shooting for 1000+ RWHP, the Teksid is not the only place to start. Establish your goal, stay on target, and the Marauder/Mach I/Aviator block is as good as any of them for up 700-750 RWHP street cars.

Your entitled to your opinion. Enjoy your stock WAP block.


The name-calling and insults are falling on deaf ears, it's just the same old slap down it has always been.

There is no name calling at all in this thread. Just because someone calls your notions of "411" proposterous doesn't mean you've been insulted. You need thicker skin.



This doesn't have anything to do with my knowledge or beliefs. It's about the mythology that builds in the dearth of 411, and my goal was to try and stop it from taking hold here.

The teksid block is THE best stock aluminum block upgrade which answers the question posed in the title of the thread. No mythology there.



Build your Teksid, but keep the budget reasonable. Anything that come from the boneyard has to be checked out thoroughly, and by a professional builder.

I agree fully. But anyone who pays far more than they should, or fails to have the block throughly checked is just an idiot that shouldn't be undertaking the project in the first place. But, yet again, these budget warnings and precautions have nothing to do with the Teksid still being the most desirable stock aluminum block to have.





HAHA! How much more does the Steel Block weigh?


70lbs. To be honest, 70lbs is not the end of the world. Although putting another 70lbs into the nose of any car is a bad thing (worst possible place to add weight), if all out reliability is the theme, cast iron is the way to go.

That said, most folks can get a teksid for an extra $100 bucks over a WAP block and build a motor that is more durable than a WAP block motor but weighs 70lbs less than the iron block. Its thought of as the "best balance of both worlds" solution. This is the exact reason it is sought out in the first place.

Don't get me wrong...an aluminum block is an aluminum block. You'll have inherent limitations there. The Teksid is not the holy grail of motor parts. BUT, the idea is that for a very small premium its simply a better block and a better foundation to start with if you are building an aluminum block based motor.



I'm still not wrong on anything I've posted.


Yes you are. You called the value of the Teksid block an "urban myth" which is wholly false.

[MI2QWK4U]

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

That is correct, some people actually believe the stuff they are shoveling... I couldn't agree more Jim.

[TooManyFords]

The only advantage of a Teksid Block is reduced weight. No matter how strong the aluminum or webbing etc, it is still an aluminum block with cast iron sleeves.
You want to start from scratch, go to the ford parts counter and buy a brand new, cast iron, already machined block for about $350.
Check the machine work, do a little correction honing at best and you are done. It will be the strongest, cheapest and most reliable.
It will also lower the front of your car without suspension mods!

Yep! Exactly the route I went. ;)

John

[SergntMac]

I read through you post, Mike, and carefully too, looking for truth. I found it (finally) here...
Yes, the guy in your neighborhood is a total idiot and a fool with his money...Trouble is, the thread title is "What the best aluminum block upgrade" Teksid was the answer. Yes, it is the answer, and it was the answer I gave too. You seem to finally get my point.

What caused this normally sane young man to get that financially deep into a Teksid block, when at that cost, those dollars, other options make more sense?

Internet mythology. And, if you can't see that yourself here, you continue to make my point for me. Please keep "forging" ahead, Mike, you are doing fine in making my point for me, thank you.

BTW, tell me this...Are we to read just the thread title and respond to that? Or, should we read the posted question(s), and try to answer that which the title invites us to peek at?

Post #1 in this thread is clear to me, with a sustinct question. His title being an invite to read more, and offer our opinions. Did I get this wrong?
Just because someone calls your notions of "411" proposterous doesn't mean you've been insulted. You need thicker skin. Okay...I'll get a thicker skin, but can you please get a dictionary? That's the third time you post proposterous when it's preposterous, and if you want to insult me with "no personal feelings involved", please spell your insult correctly, K? I don't mind getting slapped around when I deserve it, but it would be easier to absorb if the slapper wore the correct glove on the correct hand...Call me sentimental for the old days, eh?
The teksid block is THE best stock aluminum block upgrade which answers the question posed in the title of the thread. No mythology there.Dayum, again I agree. What am I missing here?
But anyone who pays far more than they should, or fails to have the block throughly checked is just an idiot that shouldn't be undertaking the project in the first place. But, yet again, these budget warnings and precautions have nothing to do with the Teksid still being the most desirable stock aluminum block to have. Yeah, dude...Dayum again...Why are we not seeing our agreements on this? That's all I ever said.

Buy what you need to buy, and if the build calls for a Teksid block, watch out for the schemers and slick sales pitch. Same line I hold with the drive shaft upgrade, "make sure you need it, before you go shopping".

All arguments aside Mike, maybe you need to get your eyes checked? I'm using readers now. Wasn't too a hard change to get behind (though I didn't like it myself, and made a dozen errors on official reports until I got "slapped" by my boss). Maybe you need to switch to extra-large screen fonts?

We all get old, no hiding from that. Nonetheless, read what I post, and only that. Stop reading into stuff, and responding to what I never said.
The Teksid is not the holy grail of motor parts. BUT, the idea is that for a very small premium its simply a better block and a better foundation to start with if you are building an aluminum block based motor. Again...We agree. Why are you on my back about this agreement?

You called the value of the Teksid block an "urban myth" which is wholly false.No, your statement now is wholly false. I never said that. I said that what some folks believe about the Teksid block [I]IS mythology, and nothing more. What they believe about it's origin, construction, reliability and durability. Where a Teksid comes from (and where a "mountain" block does not), and why. Where to fine one at a reasonable price to the end user, and just a bit about what you need to attend to when a "used" Teksid block gets into this mix. I posted some cautions about FWD 4V applications, and early matings to AOD/AODE trannys. This is all I ever said negative about the Teksid block.

It's sad you never read that, but c'mon, Mike. Be straight up 'bout it all now. Just another bow shot at me, eh?

I don't care, but please don't make yourself into a liar over me. Crossing that liar line, geeze...I'm just not worth it. I won't lie on anybody, why should you?

[Loco1234]

I heard it mentioned once in this thread but I think it was wholly overlooked...
What about the Sean Hyland Race 4.6L Block?
4.6/5.4 Sean Hyland Race Block (was = $4,895.00 now = $4,695.95)
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/index.php?cPath=26&osCsid=a8cb8822b6017fd8dfffb7e 590dd086c

Of course it's not the cheapest but the question of this thread is....
What the best aluminium Block...

Now that can be taken many ways... best for your buck, best all around, best race block, best street block, etc....

....But I have heard alot about the Teksid is anyone familar with SHM Race block?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95 45&stc=1&d=1154093193


SHM also has.....

Brand New SHM Cobra 4.6L DOHC Engine
Sleeved oversize to 5 liters. This engine has forged steel crankshaft, Manley forged H beam rods, Manley forged pistons, FM race bearings, ARM main and head studs, ported cylinder heads, stainless valves, chromoly valve locks and retainers, billet steel performance camshafts, high flow exhaust manifolds, ported intake manifold. Brand new, 410hp, has been test fired on dyno.

Only $9500! (sounds a bit expensive)
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95 46&stc=1&d=1154094035

Anyone know of anyone else making aftermarket blocks?
What are the limitations of these blocks? Will AC still be capable? etc...?
:rasta:

[Joe Walsh]

I heard it mentioned once in this thread but I think it was wholly overlooked...
What about the Sean Hyland Race 4.6L Block?
4.6/5.4 Sean Hyland Race Block (was = $4,895.00 now = $4,695.95)
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/index.php?cPath=26&osCsid=a8cb8822b6017fd8dfffb7e 590dd086c

Of course it's not the cheapest but the question of this thread is....
What the best aluminium Block...

Now that can be taken many ways... best for your buck, best all around, best race block, best street block, etc....

....But I have heard alot about the Teksid is anyone familar with SHM Race block?
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95 45&stc=1&d=1154093193


SHM also has.....

Brand New SHM Cobra 4.6L DOHC Engine
Sleeved oversize to 5 liters. This engine has forged steel crankshaft, Manley forged H beam rods, Manley forged pistons, FM race bearings, ARM main and head studs, ported cylinder heads, stainless valves, chromoly valve locks and retainers, billet steel performance camshafts, high flow exhaust manifolds, ported intake manifold. Brand new, 410hp, has been test fired on dyno.

Only $9500! (sounds a bit expensive)
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95 46&stc=1&d=1154094035

Anyone know of anyone else making aftermarket blocks?
What are the limitations of these blocks? Will AC still be capable? etc...?
:rasta:


A member on this site recently had a very BAD experience with an SHM engine...

I don't think I would touch anything that SHM is trying to sell.

[Dennis Reinhart]

A member on this site recently had a very BAD experience with an SHM engine...

I don't think I would touch anything that SHM is trying to sell.

Many people have