View Full Version : 4.6L Windage Tray Is this a good deal?
Loco1234
07-28-2006, 11:18 AM
4.6L Windage Tray Is this a good deal? is it worth while?
Will it work with our setup....?
These windage trays were standard equipment on all 2000 model Mustang Cobra R's. During testing Ford found so much extra power by using this windage tray that they altered their assembly process to allow installing this windage tray on all Cobra R engines. By keeping excess oil off your crank and in the pan where it belongs, this windage tray will allow your engine to produce maximum horsepower. These pans mount between the block and pan.They fit both stock and aftermarket oil pans.
4.6L Windage Tray, Includes Oil pan Studs & Nuts
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/YVS450/products/oilsystem/oilsystem.htm
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95 48&stc=1&d=1154110668
RoyLPita
07-28-2006, 12:07 PM
...:popcorn:...
I am installing one with the new block, but I think it would be very difficult if not impossible to get one installed with the motor in place. You would have to get the oil pan off. I am not sure you can reach all the bolts because of the cross member and then you would have to get by the oil pick-up.
Anyone know if this is possible?
Our oil pans do have a small windage/scraper tray already.
jobrien8
07-28-2006, 05:14 PM
Have been working oil aeration studys at work.
In regards to removing the pan when while still in the vehicle, it is more than difficult at best. The distance between the pickup and the bottom of the pan is 6-10m/m. Plus you have to get around the baffling surrounding the pickup tube.
As to whether the windage tray is necessary is how you drive. Unless you are runnning a sustained 4000 rpm or greater you won't see much advantage.
Hope this helps.
Loco1234
07-31-2006, 11:49 AM
Does anyone know if this oil pan will fit in a Marauder?
Has anyone actually done it?
The windage tray does not fit with the oil pick-up they sent, nor does it fit with the stock pick-up in the car. I had to cut a piece out of the windage tray to make it fit.
No, I did not take pictures as I was pissed and no I will not disassemble it to take a picture.
It does fit the oil pan though. :D
Loco1234
07-31-2006, 01:12 PM
Will the canton oil pan fit in the marauder though?
Loco1234
07-31-2006, 01:32 PM
I just spoke with Dave from Canton. He check in his computer and said no one has put a canton oil pan on a marauder to their knowledge. They say the Canton oil pan part# 15-784 should fit. The associated windage tray would be 20-939. We would use our stock pick-up. They do not provide one the stock one is to remain. This is the same pan and windage tray that is on the 2000 Mustang Cobra "R". They say it is a big improvement. ...but they sell it so...
The pan usually runs for $375.00
The windage tray runs for $90.00
They are willing to do a group buy....price break yet to be determined.
....and they also said that if a marauder owner dry fits the pan to the car and it doesn't work they would allow a full return.
Before I buy this pan and attempt to dry fit it etc.....
...Has anyone ever done this yet?
Do we know if it will work or not for sure?
I'll keep everyone posted.....:beer:
prchrman
07-31-2006, 01:32 PM
I do not know on our blocks which are a variation of an old "Y" block (if memory serves me correctly) that a windage tray will be that big of a benefit but on some of the old normal (main caps below the edge of the block) blocks a windage tray would add as much as 12hp...they do make a difference in many applications and also help in keeping oil in the front of the pan during hard acceleration where the pickup is located...
Krytin
07-31-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm pretty sure you won't be able to swap the oil pan w/out pulling the motor out of the car - or at least jacking it up out of the mounts.
I have a moroso street/strip pan as the canton offered did not have the oil drain back feature.
That is the windage tray I bought, 20-939. It does not fit with the stock oil pick-up.
Our motors cranks do stick into the 'wind' quite a bit.
Loco1234
08-01-2006, 05:27 AM
1) Thanks juno I will ask them at Canton about the oil drain back.
2) I will also ask them what is up with the oil pickup. I do not want to start cutting a perfectly good windage tray I just bought.
As far im concerned Im concerned the motor has to atleast lifted to install a new pan and windage tray. But if you plan on building a new motor, refresh yours, or doing anything major in hte engine bay you might as well look to upgrade your oil pan and windage tray.
Im not sure if anyone else is interested but Canton said if we had a group of people on the MM.net forum they would work out a group buy.
I do more running on road courses etc. so for me a larger and better oil pan is a good idea. This oil pan also weights about half the weight of the stock pan according to Canton.
FordNut
08-01-2006, 05:55 AM
I have a moroso street/strip pan as the canton offered did not have the oil drain back feature.
That is the windage tray I bought, 20-939. It does not fit with the stock oil pick-up.
Our motors cranks do stick into the 'wind' quite a bit.
Question: how much and in what locations does the windage tray extend into the area between the main caps? Reason I ask is I'll be using the DSS main girdle and it fills up most of the space inside the block around the mains.
Loco1234
08-01-2006, 07:00 AM
Im not sure but thats a really good question because I've been kicking around the idea of stiffening everything up with a girdle.
Is the DSS girdle nice or are all of the girdle kits about the same...?
Question: how much and in what locations does the windage tray extend into the area between the main caps? Reason I ask is I'll be using the DSS main girdle and it fills up most of the space inside the block around the mains.
Brian,
It did not appear to extend any further then the stock tray which is built into the pan.
If the DSS girdle fits the stocker, it should fit the Canton.
Loco1234
08-01-2006, 07:04 AM
Juno is this the oil pan you got? The 1st one on the page?
What is the Oil Drain Back Feature?
How well does that pan fit in the marauder?
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11 909
FordNut
08-01-2006, 09:21 AM
Im not sure but thats a really good question because I've been kicking around the idea of stiffening everything up with a girdle.
Is the DSS girdle nice or are all of the girdle kits about the same...?
The DSS girdle is really well built and heavy duty, it actually will add some support to the mains. The others are basically useless, they don't do much for the mains, they essentially tie the block together at the oil pan and don't extend into the main cap area. The DSS unit is expensive, though. See: http://www.dssracing. com/mainsupportsystem.html
That is the one. It has a 1/2" threaded connection in the front where I will be returning the turbo's oil.
It looks like it will fit, but I would hold off until I drop the motor back in.
Juno is this the oil pan you got? The 1st one on the page?
What is the Oil Drain Back Feature?
How well does that pan fit in the marauder?
http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11 909
Loco1234
08-01-2006, 10:53 AM
ok thanks alot Juno. When do you expect to drop your motor back in...
I have the messurement for the Canton Pan and hope to get a chance to measure the stock pan and engine bay to check for compatiblity tonight.
Tropical storm's notwithstanding, this weekend. :D
I just got the pieces from powdercoat so I just have to get my lazy but in gear.
Loco1234
08-02-2006, 07:25 AM
keep us posted on progress....That Morso pan do look pretty nice esspecially with the 1/2" npt fitting already installed for the oil return line.
The canton is made of aluminium, will not stick down any further then the stock pan and is half the weight....
Unfortunately, due to the heat I ended up in the pool last night and not measuring the stock oil pan and engine bay to see if the canton pan will fit...
I will get to it though...
FordNut
08-09-2006, 07:28 PM
keep us posted on progress....That Morso pan do look pretty nice esspecially with the 1/2" npt fitting already installed for the oil return line.
The canton is made of aluminium, will not stick down any further then the stock pan and is half the weight....
Unfortunately, due to the heat I ended up in the pool last night and not measuring the stock oil pan and engine bay to see if the canton pan will fit...
I will get to it though...
Getting anywhere? Are we gonna have a windage tray GP?
Loco1234
08-10-2006, 05:43 AM
I have already spoke with Canton and they said they would do a group buy..
Im waiting to so how Juno made out with his Morso pan cuz maybe I look to put the windage tray and the Morso pan on because of the 1/2" NPT.
Ho many have interest in a group buy for the Canton Windage Tray ....not the OIL pan yet...
The Moroso Street/Strip pan fits!!! It makes it a little more of a challenge to get the motor in, but it does fit. I'll have pics later.
Loco1234
08-14-2006, 05:12 AM
Awesome can't wait to see.
I apologize for the poor image, but I was pretty much done-in at this point.
It does fit!!! The second photo is the motor ready to go in.
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/8/6/8/Oilpan.jpg
http://www.mercurymarauder.net/showcase/files/3/8/6/8/motorready.jpg
FordNut
08-14-2006, 05:43 AM
Cool, and it appears to clear the crossmember even with the windage tray between the block and pan. I had expected some notching to be necessary.
I was prepared to uhhh, 'adjust' the pan if necessary. :)
Canton recommends using a gasket between the pan and tray and silicone between the tray and block. Two gaskets may have been a little tighter.
Juno, whats the part # for the pan?
I am debating whether or not I will need the windage tray.
I need to get this stuff ordered today, so immediate help is apprecaited.
Thanks
Juno, whats the part # for the pan?
I am debating whether or not I will need the windage tray.
I need to get this stuff ordered today, so immediate help is apprecaited.
Thanks
I used 20546. I bought it at RPM outlet. (great price and quick shipping)
It comes anodized a brassy color, but I had mine powdercoated.
http://rpmoutlet.com/mach1cobramotor.htm#1
http://moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=11 909
BTW, which thermostat are you going with for the KB? 160 or 180?
160 for the KB.
Thans for the info.
Loco1234
08-14-2006, 10:39 AM
Looks great maybe if there is interest we can look into a grpoup buy for the Morso Pan instead of the Canton.... Maybe the windage tray as well.
Biggest problem is that windage tray is a canton product and we still don't know if Canton pan fits plus it doesn't have the 1/2" NPT oil drain back hole pre installed.
Hmm I have to look into wether or not Morso has a windage tray so we can group buy them together.... maybe.....
I ordered the Moroso pan from Summit today.
They price matched RPM Outlets price of $229.
No windage tray for me.
Juno, was the picture you took of the engine installed after you had bolted the block to the motor mounts or motor mount to crossmember?
I ordered the Moroso pan from Summit today.
Juno, was the picture you took of the engine installed after you had bolted the block to the motor mounts or motor mount to crossmember?
Motor mounts not bolted to the crossmember yet. They are sitting flat with no gap on the mounts.
Motor mounts not bolted to the crossmember yet. They are sitting flat with no gap on the mounts.
Good stuff.
Ill have my pan Wednesday.
Just test fitted the 20546 pan.
It does not fit.
I am really pissed.
Juno, are you sure YOUR pan fits?
Honestly, at this point, Im not excited about this KB project, or this car anymore.
I do enjoy my bone stock MM.
TooManyFords
08-16-2006, 04:19 PM
Honestly, at this point, Im not excited about this KB project, or this car anymore.
I do enjoy my bone stock MM.
No pain, no gain Zack... Hang in there, it's bound to get better. The KB project is very worthwhile and you'll be the first. That counts for something.
;)
Ok, now that we've all de-stressed, where does it hit? Can you snap some pics?
John
It hits everywhere.
The Marauder pan has a 90 degree bend from the bottom to the top of the pan.
The Moroso, along with any Mustang pan has a rolling, curving bend.
It hits the crossmember, period.
I am royally pissed off.
SergntMac
08-16-2006, 08:38 PM
C'mon, dude, hang in there, eh? I know how you must feel, you forget all the "it's not working" stuff we have been through. There will be a pay day for you.
I'll give you my oil pan, but you have to come get it off the car.
So much for building excitement over a GB on an untested mod...
Juno, can you please check your clearance again.
Loco1234
08-17-2006, 03:03 PM
Hmmm wonder if the Canton pan is the way to go....?
Juno, check your clearance again and report back to us, k?
Hmmm wonder if the Canton pan is the way to go....?
All these pans are is a Mustang pan with a sump welded on to the sides.
They are clearly made by Ford and modified by the individual company.
A mustang pan will not fit a Marauder.
Im still so upset, this will warrant pictures.
Sorry, I have been away from it most of the week and will finish bolting it up tommorrow.
Loco1234
08-18-2006, 05:24 AM
sounds like it won't work.....
I think I may know someone whom could assist in having a custom oil pan made. Ill look into it....
SergntMac
08-18-2006, 07:11 AM
Why the push for a custom piece? What's wrong with the stock OEM Marauder pan? We have a windage tray in place, right? I know upgrading the oil pump is wise advice when building HP, but what's wrong with the original Marauder pan? I'm missing something here...
Why the push for a custom piece? What's wrong with the stock OEM Marauder pan? We have a windage tray in place, right? I know upgrading the oil pump is wise advice when building HP, but what's wrong with the original Marauder pan? I'm missing something here...
The MMR oil pump has been known to suck the pan dry at high rpm's, thus the need for increased oil capacity.
Im not worried about it though, we beat the crap out of Macs car with the MMR pump and have had no oiling issues.
SergntMac
08-18-2006, 07:53 AM
Thanks Zack, this is what I thought too. I know it's true when using the Ford Racing high volume oil pump.
I can see a need for extended capacity on an all-out race car, but I cannot see it as necessary for a street/strip build, or a muscled-up daily driver. Just top off the oil on race day, and you're good to go.
Y'all...If you're really wringing your hands over this, check out MMR's custom built 7 qt. pan. PN 400360, 219.00 Comes in colors too.
www.modularmustangracing.com (http://www.modularmustangracing.com)
Alas, looking at the pics, I don't think this pan will fit a Marauder crossmember any better than what has been suggested so far.
http://www.modularmustangracing.com/images/400360b.jpg
If the side profile of the pan looks like this, it will not clear the Marauder crossmember.
TooManyFords
08-18-2006, 08:28 AM
Would anyone be interested if my friend Mark was to modify Marauder pans? Mark is the master welder that did my back-half project on my marauder.
Master TIG Welder.
I've sent him an email to see if he is interested in building a batch of custom pans like the MMR version but based on our Marauder pan.
If there is enough interest and commitment, I bet he would take the job.
John
Loco1234
08-18-2006, 01:31 PM
Thats roughly what I was looking to have done....
A stock Marauder pan would need to be donated to the cause so measuremnets can be done. Then this pan can get the diamond expansion done to it (similar to the morso and canton), along with the road race baffleing...
I was possibly gonna have this person, who does all the specialty oil pans for AVIAID, see if he would modify our pans..... Im sure he could convert/make new from a stock pan templete, a Marauder oil pan into an awesome pan that may even hold more oil then Canton or Morso...(If we want him to do that...) I would also have him put a 1/2" NPT oil return just like the Morso pan....
This is Aviads web site....
http://www.aviaid.com/
Loco1234
08-18-2006, 01:34 PM
Of course we could always make the "easy" (LOL) switch to a stage 5 dump sump system....
Like the schemahttp://www.mercurymarauder.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=97 86&stc=1&d=1155933262tic below:
SergntMac
08-18-2006, 01:41 PM
I was possibly gonna have this person, who does all the specialty oil pans for AVIAID, see if he would modify our pans..... Im sure he could convert/make new from a stock pan templete, a Marauder oil pan into an awesome pan that may even hold more oil then Canton or Morso...(If we want him to do that...) I would also have him put a 1/2" NPT oil return just like the Morso pan...Hope you do some field testing for fit, finish and performance before you offer this to members as a mod...
TooManyFords
08-18-2006, 03:41 PM
Hope you do some field testing for fit, finish and performance before you offer this to members as a mod...
Fit is an easy one, it can only expand sideways from the sump area and must clear my headers.
Finish, well if it is welded it is finished.
Performance is arbitrary. It just has to hold a quart or more oil than the factory pan. Oil pans don't really have performance values in and of themselves. <grin!>
Options, now we have options! The oil line return fittings, side or bottom drain plugs, you name it.
I talked to mark and he would be interested if a handful commit to him doing them. Money talks, BS walks...
Cheers!
john
SergntMac
08-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Performance is arbitrary. It just has to hold a quart or more oil than the factory pan. Oil pans don't really have performance values in and of themselves.
Cheers! johnCould you repeat this? There a touch of static in the line.
One more time, John and a little louder please?
FordNut
08-18-2006, 07:53 PM
I'd kind of like to have an aluminum one. Transfers heat better than steel. Is that a performance aspect?
SergntMac
08-19-2006, 04:55 AM
I'd kind of like to have an aluminum one. Transfers heat better than steel. Is that a performance aspect?Yeah, I'd give that a thumbs-up, if it were made so. It's one of several reasons I bought a deep tranny pan.
Joe Walsh
08-19-2006, 07:24 AM
If we are going through all this trouble just to add a quart of oil capacity, why don't you consider the Accusump Oiling system??
It holds oil under pressure and dumps it back into the engine should oil pressure drop or oil starvation occur.
You can also hold the oil reservoir under pressure with the engine off and use it to pressurize the engine for cold start-ups.
Because my Marauder is not a daily driver, and will sit for a week or more, I use my Accusump for cold start-ups.
(especially because our MMs have that computer controlled 'rev' once the engine fires.:( )
I NEVER get that nasty rattle anymore.
It is available in 1 QT, 2 QT, and 3 QT reservoirs.
www.accusump.com
I have the nice aluminum 1 Qt model mounted on my driver's side plastic fender well just in front of the master cylinder.
It is plumbed with Aeroquip Startlite hose into my remote mount oil filter system.
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