Newbie Data Logging - Specific Parameter Questions

[jonroe]

Folks,

I posted the following on the SCT forums but no one has responded. I thought someone in the MM world (like Defyant) might have some comments here. I'm just trying to learn.

Jon

---------------------------------

Yesterday, I performed about a 30 minute data logging session on my car from a morning cold start-up and I have a few questions about 5 specific parameter behaviors.

Car: 2004 Mercury Marauder with aftermarket 91 octane tune loaded
Weather: 64 degrees, low humidity, 7:30am
Driving: Mixture of highway and city with a few WOTs
Strategy: RZASABS
Xcal2 Firmware: V1.14
Live Link: V3.1.31.0

1.) Parameter: [environment], trans_temp
What is up with this??? It starts out at 550?!? and slowly drops down to about 140 after 15-20 minutes of driving. Even after 15-20 minutes it stays down between 120 and 150 which is surely too low for real trans temps. I'm lost. If this is not the right transmission oil temperature parameter, what is?

2.) Parameter: [idle], POWERSTEERING_PRESSURE
Just stayed 0 the whole time. What is this?

3.) Parameter: [spark], KNOCK_SENSOR_RETARD
Varied between about -2.0 and +2.0. I thought this would be timing pulled out by knock sensor action. Why does it have both plus and minus numbers?

4.) Parameter: [trans], od_cancel_on
I thought this would show 1 when I manually switched the O/D off which I did several different times during the drive. This stayed 0 most of the drive except on two isolated spots. It was 0 when I was cruising about 60 mph in 3rd gear with O/D switched out. Could this be noting when the torque converter actually locked up? I can believe that happened only a couple of times when I exceeded the 63 mph set point for lock-up in my tune.

5.) Parameter: [variable_cam], ACTUAL_CAM_ANGLE
Stayed 0 all the time. Could be a useless parameter since this car doesn't have a variable cam???

Thanks for any help explaining these behaviors. I'm trying to learn how to get useful info from the logging sessions.

[Lidio]

Folks,

I posted the following on the SCT forums but no one has responded. I thought someone in the MM world (like Defyant) might have some comments here. I'm just trying to learn.

Jon

---------------------------------

Yesterday, I performed about a 30 minute data logging session on my car from a morning cold start-up and I have a few questions about 5 specific parameter behaviors.

Car: 2004 Mercury Marauder with aftermarket 91 octane tune loaded
Weather: 64 degrees, low humidity, 7:30am
Driving: Mixture of highway and city with a few WOTs
Strategy: RZASABS
Xcal2 Firmware: V1.14
Live Link: V3.1.31.0

1.) Parameter: [environment], trans_temp
What is up with this??? It starts out at 550?!? and slowly drops down to about 140 after 15-20 minutes of driving. Even after 15-20 minutes it stays down between 120 and 150 which is surely too low for real trans temps. I'm lost. If this is not the right transmission oil temperature parameter, what is?

2.) Parameter: [idle], POWERSTEERING_PRESSURE
Just stayed 0 the whole time. What is this?

3.) Parameter: [spark], KNOCK_SENSOR_RETARD
Varied between about -2.0 and +2.0. I thought this would be timing pulled out by knock sensor action. Why does it have both plus and minus numbers?

4.) Parameter: [trans], od_cancel_on
I thought this would show 1 when I manually switched the O/D off which I did several different times during the drive. This stayed 0 most of the drive except on two isolated spots. It was 0 when I was cruising about 60 mph in 3rd gear with O/D switched out. Could this be noting when the torque converter actually locked up? I can believe that happened only a couple of times when I exceeded the 63 mph set point for lock-up in my tune.

5.) Parameter: [variable_cam], ACTUAL_CAM_ANGLE
Stayed 0 all the time. Could be a useless parameter since this car doesn't have a variable cam???

Thanks for any help explaining these behaviors. I'm trying to learn how to get useful info from the logging sessions.

Some of the parameters that come up don't always work or are simply not available on some cars.

I don't usually support or work with customers on the data logging capabilities of the SCT xcal because we just aren't in a position to to do that. But the MM's don't have variable cam. The knock sensors on 04 MM's will both add and pull timing accordinly. And I cant say for sure on the OD cancel, trans and P/S stuff.


Thanks

[DEFYANT]

Folks,

I posted the following on the SCT forums but no one has responded. I thought someone in the MM world (like Defyant) might have some comments here. I'm just trying to learn.

Jon


Jon,

I know what you mean. I have bugged guys like Lidio about this before and posted on the boards at: http://www.sctflash.com/forum/ You can get some good info there.

I read somewhere that the parameters in CAPS are recorded in real time. Select the CAPs options. But you can not read as many as the parameters in small print, which are hamperd by a delay and may not be as accurate.

It is a mystery to me why SCT does not provide more info with this product. With the prices we pay, you'd think they'd at least have a break down on the SCT site into what each parameter is, how to read it, and what the tolerance's are. :confused:

Honestly though, I got this primarily to help diagnose a problem with help from Lidio. Best part is, I haven't needed it for that yet :D .

[jonroe]

Lidio,

Thanks for the response. I don't really expect you to get involved. It really is an SCT issue. I figured the variable cam parameter was useless in this case. It's interesting that knock sensor readings pull and add timing. You'd think the PCM would handle all the adds where necessary and the knock sensor would be handling the pulls. I don't see how a knock sensor reading can help tell when to add. Oh well.

I didn't know quite where to post this. I probably should have put it elsewhere.

Charlie,

Again, thanks. I know you have been doing some playing around. I will continue to do some to try to figure this out. At the moment it is more an interesting diversion than anything serious. I would like to find out about the trans_temp though. That one bugs me. I read about the CAPS versus small letter parameters like you say and in most cases you see more variability and noise in the data from CAPS parameters -- but not always! I was surprised to see "SPARK" plotted against "spark". In this case the lowercase "spark" showed more variability than the CAPS one. Who knows?

I try to get answers over on the SCT forums but they are slow and not very forthcoming. Many people have asked for a catalog of parameter definitions, units, etc. with no luck. They give some lame excuses about the catalog being too big. So what if it's a few hundred. They will answer about specific parameters one by one. I think what I could tell from reviewing many threads on the topic of parameters is that they don't publish this stuff for proprietary reasons to keep an edge on their competitors. Figuring out units can be a pain as well like "load" or fuel flow. I guess fuel flow is gallons per minute. I'll go figure that one out by using it and vehicle speed to see if I can get a reasonable mpg number.

Anyway, if you learn anything great, shoot me a line. I will as well.

Thanks.

Jon

[JMan]

Okay I'll bite,




1.) Parameter: [environment], trans_temp
In Ford's data parameter list, they have TFT voltage and TFT temperature in degrees (F or C). The voltage should start at 2.30v @ 70*F and go downward. 1.20v. would be somewhere in the vicinity of 160-170*. Look for TFT degrees. I can look up the correlation if necessary.

2.) Parameter: [idle], POWERSTEERING_PRESSURE
Just stayed 0 the whole time. What is this?
Pressure switch - on/off type. Would only go to a higher state (1) if the wheel was turned rapidly or to lock. Exhibits high P/S load to PCM to adjust idle for the load. Your car has to have one and it must work to read.

3.) Parameter: [spark], KNOCK_SENSOR_RETARD
Varied between about -2.0 and +2.0. I thought this would be timing pulled out by knock sensor action. Why does it have both plus and minus numbers?
Answered above in earlier post.

4.) Parameter: [trans], od_cancel_on
Should be 'on' when O/D is cancelled. Your tune may be set to ignore this???

5.) Parameter: [variable_cam], ACTUAL_CAM_ANGLE
Stayed 0 all the time. Could be a useless parameter since this car doesn't have a variable cam???
Correct!

Thanks for any help explaining these behaviors. I'm trying to learn how to get useful info from the logging sessions.

Please understand I'm not familiar with the program you are using. This is just an interpretation using Ford factory parameters.

Best luck and happy logging,

J

[DEFYANT]

JMan,

Can you point us to a web site where we can learn more about this?

Thanks.

[jonroe]

Thanks very much for biting, JMan. It's very helpful to me.

I don't know if my tune is set to ignore od_cancel_on. My tune is set to not allow torque converter lockup until 63 mph. What's funny is that the od_cancel_on did show a state of 1 a couple of brief times during the run (0 otherwise) but this was NOT correlated with the times in the run when I pushed the button and ran in only 3rd gear.

Jon

[Zack]

The transmission doesnt even have a temp sender in it.

[jonroe]

That's what I assumed so the PCM must be deriving a value based on other knowledge like coolant temp, engine load, rpm, speed, who knows. It also reports a derived engine oil temp. I watched the engine oil temp trace during a warm up logging cycle. The oil and coolant temp started out the same, of course, at about 80*. Then the coolant rose to its running temp of about 194* while the derived oil temp lagged behind in its warm up until it overtook the coolant and ran in the very low 200s. I wonder how sophisticated the PCM is at deriving things like oil and trans temp. Maybe it's not that smart.

Jon

[Lidio]

The transmission doesnt even have a temp sender in it.


All AOD-E's, 4R70W's and most other electronic Ford automatics have trans oil temp sensors in them.


Thanks

[Zack]

All AOD-E's, 4R70W's and most other electronic Ford automatics have trans oil temp sensors in them.


Thanks

Where is it?
Do you have a pic.

[mad1stgen]

Where is it?
Do you have a pic.

TOT (transmission operating temperature sensor) is a part of the solenoid body assembly.

[jonroe]

All AOD-E's, 4R70W's and most other electronic Ford automatics have trans oil temp sensors in them.

Lidio, thanks for the info. I certainly was not aware of this sensor. Do you know if there is a true oil temp sensor for the PCM too? Jon

[JMan]

JMan,

Can you point us to a web site where we can learn more about this?

Thanks.

Yes its -
C:\JMan\Cranium\Left Lobe\Ford\Data Parameters
Might be hard to access from your location! ;)

Mad1stgen is correct, it's part of the solenoid pack.

J

P.S. I'll try to drum up a site with parameter descriptions. EDIT: Charlie, follow link for a list of parameters. No definitions here though. I'll try again this weekend.

http://www.autotap.com/enhanced_parameters_ford.asp

[Lidio]

Lidio, thanks for the info. I certainly was not aware of this sensor. Do you know if there is a true oil temp sensor for the PCM too? Jon


The only Ford's I've seen lately with actual oil temp sensors are Variable cam timing motors like the current 3-valve V-8 engines. Most others, the oil temp is either inferred or assumed or not monitored by the PCM.

Thanks

[LUCKY GENE]

*radio problem (Lucky Gene)
Hi, I'm new here. I just purchased an 03 with 34 thosand miles.It is out of warranty. I really love the car. Although the strangest thing happens with the radio. It is am/fm cassette CD in the dash and also a changer in the trunk. The radio with suddenly stop playing and I hear static as is there is no antenna, but the CD and tape will play fine. Then a little time will pass and the am/fm will play again. Any thoughts on how to solve the problem? thanks for your help an advice

[DEFYANT]

*radio problem (Lucky Gene)
Hi, I'm new here. I just purchased an 03 with 34 thosand miles.It is out of warranty. I really love the car. Although the strangest thing happens with the radio. It is am/fm cassette CD in the dash and also a changer in the trunk. The radio with suddenly stop playing and I hear static as is there is no antenna, but the CD and tape will play fine. Then a little time will pass and the am/fm will play again. Any thoughts on how to solve the problem? thanks for your help an advice

Dude, First, welcome to the site. Second, start a new thread with your question. This is a totally different subject. Third, can a Mod or Admin delete this to keep this thread on topic?

Oh, and Gene... I have no clue as to whats wrong with your radio :o .

Thanks

[LUCKY GENE]

Hey DEFYANT, thanks for the reply. I will try and start a new thread.
drive safe.